April 26, 2017, 02:52:42 PM

Author Topic: Worst cliches and how to make them new  (Read 1926 times)

Offline MammaMamae

Re: Worst cliches and how to make them new
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2017, 08:07:52 PM »
I don't know if this is a cliche, but beginning an epic fantasy with an assassination or some type of "shocking" violence as a hook.

The last two fantasy books I read began with assassinations.  And they weren't books that were marketed or considered "grimdark."

I really would love to see a fantasy book begin with interesting relationships or dilemmas that makes me care about the characters and world before they start whipping out the knives.

(The first chapter - the "Bran" chapter - of GOT is a GREAT example of how to do this.  GRRM packs into one chapter a whole web of tense, fascinating family dynamics full of high personal and emotional stakes to which the spurting blood is incidental.)

The cliche of using violence to make things interesting in fantasy is a particular peeve of mine.

Online S. K. InkSlinger

Re: Worst cliches and how to make them new
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2017, 01:33:12 AM »
I don't know if this is a cliche, but beginning an epic fantasy with an assassination or some type of "shocking" violence as a hook.

The last two fantasy books I read began with assassinations.  And they weren't books that were marketed or considered "grimdark."

I really would love to see a fantasy book begin with interesting relationships or dilemmas that makes me care about the characters and world before they start whipping out the knives.

(The first chapter - the "Bran" chapter - of GOT is a GREAT example of how to do this.  GRRM packs into one chapter a whole web of tense, fascinating family dynamics full of high personal and emotional stakes to which the spurting blood is incidental.)

The cliche of using violence to make things interesting in fantasy is a particular peeve of mine.

To be honest, I've always hated Bran's storyline. Whenever the POV switch to him I'd always think, "Uh, couldn't I get more of Tyrion, Jon, or even Cersei?" When Jaime pushed him down the tower in episode 1 of the show I was like "he deserved it" lol. Although I do agree that the family complexicity of the Starks and their blood feud against the Lannisters are very intricate, and stands as a firm foundation between the hatred between these two hoses and the conflicts that ensues.

However, I think that the main writing style in this modern day era would have to change and adapt to the new audience, eventually. I bet most of the kids today would quit reading altogether if you forced them to read "Little Women", "The Great Gatsby", or other classics that were written in a style that no longer fits our current era. We have tablets, internets, game, and even Virtual Reality coming up. Books and writing styles would have to adapt, or else disappeared entirely in this storm of change and time. Much like our parents and grandparents wouldn't be able to understand the ideas and desires in our era, people of the later generation wouldn't be able to grasp the same style that we once loved and held dear. But that's just my opinion, that is. 

Offline Lanko

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Re: Worst cliches and how to make them new
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2017, 01:42:56 AM »
Not sure of that. People still rave about classics like Pride and Prejudice, Dracula, Lord of the Rings and so on.
And even today you still have things like The Name of the Wind, Malazan and ASOIAF itself.

I agree I don't really like the Bran POV either, but as the first chapter (aside the Prologue) it was a really good beginning and GRRM really did it right when even switching a lot of POVs he kept them all (except Dany) tightly connected in place and time.

That allowed a lot of buildup for the Starks as individuals without confusing the reader and despite what people say about slow beginnings, there were plenty of conflict or animosity in those initial chapters. Not only to those characters, but them seeing it on others.
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Re: Worst cliches and how to make them new
« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2017, 05:39:42 AM »
True, if done properly, slow and elaborate openings could be something truly majestic (The Name of the Wind opening, now that was the THING!) Although I think the overall pace of writing are really becoming faster. As Gem Cutter (I think?) once mentioned somewhere in the forum; LOTR use to be considered quite moderate paced by the overall readers population, now it's considered to be a type of slow opening when compared to newer writings. I think the pace in the future will move on and it will probably be glacial for the newer generations, albeit the writing style being epic the way it is. People just changes, that's all.  :'(

Offline Bradley Darewood

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Re: Worst cliches and how to make them new
« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2017, 06:21:34 AM »

You people are alien to me.

I skipped through the books JUST reading Bran's storyline, and I was crushed when they axed his storyline from the show.  Loved Jojen to death.

Offline MammaMamae

Re: Worst cliches and how to make them new
« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2017, 08:01:40 AM »
Yeah, I'm a huge "Bran Chapter" fan.  Those chapters had - for me - some of GRRMs most evocative writing.

That said, I think we always need to be a little careful when talking about "today's" readers - books like Strange and Norrell can become huge hits, and many of the classics have 100K + glowing reviews on Goodreads from modern readers.  Truly classic books have staying power because they touch on universal themes and have writing that is perennially fresh.

And a lot of people LIKE vintage things - vintage books, vintage clothes, vintage furniture, etc.  Not everyone is into what is new and modern, or plays video games, or has a short attention span.  And even people who do like their gadgets sometimes look to books to "slow" down (my husband is one of the most gadget attached, attention deprived people I know and right now he is obsessed with Karl Ove Knaussgard.  Go figure.)

And what makes a book fast or slow paced in the beginning really depends on the reader.  Some readers are hooked by a lot of plot, dramatization, and action.  Other readers - like myself - tend to get mesmerized into a book by a slow burn beginning with a strong narrative and high emotional, relational stakes.  Tastes are different - I'm just saying I wish there was more fantasy that tried the latter approach.  Fantasy is a broad category; it doesn't necessarily need to equal action, politics, and adventure.

I don't think people fundamentally change.  Things go in and out of style, but what makes people tick is pretty universal.  The older I got, the more amazed I was by how much older books and older people not only understood my life, by often "got it" better than I did myself.

Which I think gets back to the problem with a lot of "cliches": "cliches" can be good when they tap into something universal and are continuously made fresh, but often "cliches" are a rut that writers return to by habit.

Offline Lanko

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Re: Worst cliches and how to make them new
« Reply #21 on: February 16, 2017, 05:24:05 PM »
Other readers - like myself - tend to get mesmerized into a book by a slow burn beginning with a strong narrative and high emotional, relational stakes.  Tastes are different - I'm just saying I wish there was more fantasy that tried the latter approach.  Fantasy is a broad category; it doesn't necessarily need to equal action, politics, and adventure.

This is my take as well. Whenever I see someone complain a book is slow more often than not I believe it's not the pace the problem, but the content. No tension, no conflict, boring dialogue, boring narrative... and since characterization is helped, if not made, by these things, we can guess how things go.

I'm gonna say what I said in another thread that there's slow and boring and slow and interesting. But if it's interesting and we are turning pages, is it really slow? Or are we too engineered to equate slow with boring or fast with good and fast with battles, bombastic revelations and bigger than life events?

And I also believe we can't shouldn't take criticisms or praise for pace in too much high regard. What could be portrayed as a problem of pacing is more likely a problem of content.
And we have to take into consideration that overall people may indeed not know what they really want. For all the talk about pacing, let's have a look at the best selling Fantasy series of all time and see if they really are the fast paced, breakneck speed books everyone seems to prefer:

http://www.bestfantasybookshq.com/best-selling-fantasy-series-of-all-time/

Notice that Patrick Rothfuss Kingkiller Chronicles already sold more than 11 million copies and may get Dark Materials place pretty soon. And that GRRM's series is the only one not finished in the list and there's at least two more books, possibly three, and that he can safely break into the 80 million mark.

So slow (considering most people think of them as slow) isn't just a small niche surrounded by fast paced books, but are also the top list of the bestselling books in the entire genre.

Indeed, some of the best books I've read would never make the light of day if it was just because of pace or starting in media res.

So instead of pace I believe we should worry more about our content. Because if our content isn't good then it doesn't matter if we're faster than the Millennium Falcon. We're just gonna crash harder into a wall.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2017, 05:27:48 PM by Lanko »
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Offline ultamentkiller

Re: Worst cliches and how to make them new
« Reply #22 on: February 16, 2017, 09:00:08 PM »
I don't know if this is a cliche, but beginning an epic fantasy with an assassination or some type of "shocking" violence as a hook.

The last two fantasy books I read began with assassinations.  And they weren't books that were marketed or considered "grimdark."

I really would love to see a fantasy book begin with interesting relationships or dilemmas that makes me care about the characters and world before they start whipping out the knives.

(The first chapter - the "Bran" chapter - of GOT is a GREAT example of how to do this.  GRRM packs into one chapter a whole web of tense, fascinating family dynamics full of high personal and emotional stakes to which the spurting blood is incidental.)

The cliche of using violence to make things interesting in fantasy is a particular peeve of mine.

To be honest, I've always hated Bran's storyline. Whenever the POV switch to him I'd always think, "Uh, couldn't I get more of Tyrion, Jon, or even Cersei?" When Jaime pushed him down the tower in episode 1 of the show I was like "he deserved it" lol. Although I do agree that the family complexicity of the Starks and their blood feud against the Lannisters are very intricate, and stands as a firm foundation between the hatred between these two hoses and the conflicts that ensues.

However, I think that the main writing style in this modern day era would have to change and adapt to the new audience, eventually. I bet most of the kids today would quit reading altogether if you forced them to read "Little Women", "The Great Gatsby", or other classics that were written in a style that no longer fits our current era. We have tablets, internets, game, and even Virtual Reality coming up. Books and writing styles would have to adapt, or else disappeared entirely in this storm of change and time. Much like our parents and grandparents wouldn't be able to understand the ideas and desires in our era, people of the later generation wouldn't be able to grasp the same style that we once loved and held dear. But that's just my opinion, that is.
Two things. One, Bran is one of my favorite characters in that series. And two, as a 19-year-old, I completely agree. I think the reason a lot of people my age don't read is because of school. Most of my friends who don't read tell me that it just feels like too much work. And look at the books we make them read. The Great Gatsby. Kill me now. Red Badge of Courage. Too terrible for words. Romeo and Juliet. Shakespeare said it was one of his worst plays, and yet we make students suffer through it. Sidhartha. Yeah, what a good way to get students to read. A journey about a guy discovering his religion. Ooooooh. I'm snoring just thinking about that book.

And that's barely scratching the surface. I look at the description and theme of Pride and Prejudice, and my eyes roll. I never actually read it. At least I was saved from that torture. If we let people read what they want, and make them do an in-depth book report on whatever topic the teacher is focusing on, I bet lots more people would be reading.

Now Nora will slaughter me because I bashed one of her favorite books that I haven't even read. :P

Online S. K. InkSlinger

Re: Worst cliches and how to make them new
« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2017, 05:53:10 AM »
I don't know if this is a cliche, but beginning an epic fantasy with an assassination or some type of "shocking" violence as a hook.

The last two fantasy books I read began with assassinations.  And they weren't books that were marketed or considered "grimdark."

I really would love to see a fantasy book begin with interesting relationships or dilemmas that makes me care about the characters and world before they start whipping out the knives.

(The first chapter - the "Bran" chapter - of GOT is a GREAT example of how to do this.  GRRM packs into one chapter a whole web of tense, fascinating family dynamics full of high personal and emotional stakes to which the spurting blood is incidental.)

The cliche of using violence to make things interesting in fantasy is a particular peeve of mine.

To be honest, I've always hated Bran's storyline. Whenever the POV switch to him I'd always think, "Uh, couldn't I get more of Tyrion, Jon, or even Cersei?" When Jaime pushed him down the tower in episode 1 of the show I was like "he deserved it" lol. Although I do agree that the family complexicity of the Starks and their blood feud against the Lannisters are very intricate, and stands as a firm foundation between the hatred between these two hoses and the conflicts that ensues.

However, I think that the main writing style in this modern day era would have to change and adapt to the new audience, eventually. I bet most of the kids today would quit reading altogether if you forced them to read "Little Women", "The Great Gatsby", or other classics that were written in a style that no longer fits our current era. We have tablets, internets, game, and even Virtual Reality coming up. Books and writing styles would have to adapt, or else disappeared entirely in this storm of change and time. Much like our parents and grandparents wouldn't be able to understand the ideas and desires in our era, people of the later generation wouldn't be able to grasp the same style that we once loved and held dear. But that's just my opinion, that is.
Two things. One, Bran is one of my favorite characters in that series. And two, as a 19-year-old, I completely agree. I think the reason a lot of people my age don't read is because of school. Most of my friends who don't read tell me that it just feels like too much work. And look at the books we make them read. The Great Gatsby. Kill me now. Red Badge of Courage. Too terrible for words. Romeo and Juliet. Shakespeare said it was one of his worst plays, and yet we make students suffer through it. Sidhartha. Yeah, what a good way to get students to read. A journey about a guy discovering his religion. Ooooooh. I'm snoring just thinking about that book.

And that's barely scratching the surface. I look at the description and theme of Pride and Prejudice, and my eyes roll. I never actually read it. At least I was saved from that torture. If we let people read what they want, and make them do an in-depth book report on whatever topic the teacher is focusing on, I bet lots more people would be reading.

Now Nora will slaughter me because I bashed one of her favorite books that I haven't even read. :P

This is so precise. *looks at The Scarlet Letter, The Crucible, A Raisin in the Sun, and other english literature books.* If students could actually read things that they wanted like Mistborn, Harry Potter, even Eragon and other YA books, I think people will be that much more interested in English class. Additionally, I'm think they are quite harder to find on sparknotes than the usual classics, for which my friends would just instantly copy the answers from there.  ;D

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Re: Worst cliches and how to make them new
« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2017, 10:01:21 AM »
I've always loved reading, my entire life, but the Portuguese classes in high school, where we had to read books and virtually dissect them, were the ones I really hated!
I still can't remember those books without a shiver running down my spine, and I bet that if I'd read them normally I would have liked them...
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Offline Justan Henner

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Re: Worst cliches and how to make them new
« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2017, 02:18:36 PM »

And that's barely scratching the surface. I look at the description and theme of Pride and Prejudice, and my eyes roll. I never actually read it. At least I was saved from that torture. If we let people read what they want, and make them do an in-depth book report on whatever topic the teacher is focusing on, I bet lots more people would be reading.


I actually did a book report on Game of Thrones in school about 10 years ago. Had to give a 10 minute presentation on why this book is a paragon of literature. I stuffed a whole bunch of literary bullshit into that baby. "Look! Tyrion is a Byronic hero!" Everyone was staring at me like, "wtf is he talking about?" since this was before the show and no one in that class had ever heard of it, but I just kept going, "Look, look at these corollaries to Iago in Othello!"

It was so awesome.

Offline Lordoftheword

Re: Worst cliches and how to make them new
« Reply #26 on: February 17, 2017, 02:28:17 PM »
I don't know if this is a cliche, but beginning an epic fantasy with an assassination or some type of "shocking" violence as a hook.

The last two fantasy books I read began with assassinations.  And they weren't books that were marketed or considered "grimdark."

I really would love to see a fantasy book begin with interesting relationships or dilemmas that makes me care about the characters and world before they start whipping out the knives.

(The first chapter - the "Bran" chapter - of GOT is a GREAT example of how to do this.  GRRM packs into one chapter a whole web of tense, fascinating family dynamics full of high personal and emotional stakes to which the spurting blood is incidental.)

The cliche of using violence to make things interesting in fantasy is a particular peeve of mine.

To be honest, I've always hated Bran's storyline. Whenever the POV switch to him I'd always think, "Uh, couldn't I get more of Tyrion, Jon, or even Cersei?" When Jaime pushed him down the tower in episode 1 of the show I was like "he deserved it" lol. Although I do agree that the family complexicity of the Starks and their blood feud against the Lannisters are very intricate, and stands as a firm foundation between the hatred between these two hoses and the conflicts that ensues.

However, I think that the main writing style in this modern day era would have to change and adapt to the new audience, eventually. I bet most of the kids today would quit reading altogether if you forced them to read "Little Women", "The Great Gatsby", or other classics that were written in a style that no longer fits our current era. We have tablets, internets, game, and even Virtual Reality coming up. Books and writing styles would have to adapt, or else disappeared entirely in this storm of change and time. Much like our parents and grandparents wouldn't be able to understand the ideas and desires in our era, people of the later generation wouldn't be able to grasp the same style that we once loved and held dear. But that's just my opinion, that is.
Two things. One, Bran is one of my favorite characters in that series. And two, as a 19-year-old, I completely agree. I think the reason a lot of people my age don't read is because of school. Most of my friends who don't read tell me that it just feels like too much work. And look at the books we make them read. The Great Gatsby. Kill me now. Red Badge of Courage. Too terrible for words. Romeo and Juliet. Shakespeare said it was one of his worst plays, and yet we make students suffer through it. Sidhartha. Yeah, what a good way to get students to read. A journey about a guy discovering his religion. Ooooooh. I'm snoring just thinking about that book.

And that's barely scratching the surface. I look at the description and theme of Pride and Prejudice, and my eyes roll. I never actually read it. At least I was saved from that torture. If we let people read what they want, and make them do an in-depth book report on whatever topic the teacher is focusing on, I bet lots more people would be reading.

Now Nora will slaughter me because I bashed one of her favorite books that I haven't even read. :P

This is so precise. *looks at The Scarlet Letter, The Crucible, A Raisin in the Sun, and other english literature books.* If students could actually read things that they wanted like Mistborn, Harry Potter, even Eragon and other YA books, I think people will be that much more interested in English class. Additionally, I'm think they are quite harder to find on sparknotes than the usual classics, for which my friends would just instantly copy the answers from there.  ;D

A turning point in my life was when my Grade 10 English teacher introduced the class to Ender's Game. I ate that book up in a single night of reading and have never looked back. I went through a period in time (Grade 7-10) where I had barely picked up a book, and had it not been for this moment in Grade 10, I'm not sure I'd be a writer or even reading regularly. Early educators make SUCH a difference, which is why I intend on going back to University in a years' time and getting my after-ed degree in Education.

Making kids love to read and write just sounds like the best.  ;D
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Online S. K. InkSlinger

Re: Worst cliches and how to make them new
« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2017, 08:54:52 AM »
The first time I got to write anything related to fiction is during an English class when I was in grade 7. The teacher assigned us an individual short story writing work, and that was the first time I actually felt that I enjoyed writing. Otherwise, I may never even have found a passion of it in the first place.  :D  If any of my writings ever went to publication, I would like to put up a big thank you for all of the English teachers who have inspired me onto discovering this passion of mine.

Offline Bradley Darewood

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Re: Worst cliches and how to make them new
« Reply #28 on: February 18, 2017, 02:03:56 PM »
However, I think that the main writing style in this modern day era would have to change and adapt to the new audience, eventually. I bet most of the kids today would quit reading altogether if you forced them to read "Little Women", "The Great Gatsby", or other classics that were written in a style that no longer fits our current era. We have tablets, internets, game, and even Virtual Reality coming up. Books and writing styles would have to adapt, or else disappeared entirely in this storm of change and time. Much like our parents and grandparents wouldn't be able to understand the ideas and desires in our era, people of the later generation wouldn't be able to grasp the same style that we once loved and held dear. But that's just my opinion, that is.

A turning point in my life was when my Grade 10 English teacher introduced the class to Ender's Game. I ate that book up in a single night of reading and have never looked back. I went through a period in time (Grade 7-10) where I had barely picked up a book, and had it not been for this moment in Grade 10, I'm not sure I'd be a writer or even reading regularly. Early educators make SUCH a difference, which is why I intend on going back to University in a years' time and getting my after-ed degree in Education.
Making kids love to read and write just sounds like the best.  ;D

This is so precise. *looks at The Scarlet Letter, The Crucible, A Raisin in the Sun, and other english literature books.* If students could actually read things that they wanted like Mistborn, Harry Potter, even Eragon and other YA books, I think people will be that much more interested in English class. Additionally, I'm think they are quite harder to find on sparknotes than the usual classics, for which my friends would just instantly copy the answers from there.  ;D

Two things. One, Bran is one of my favorite characters in that series. And two, as a 19-year-old, I completely agree. I think the reason a lot of people my age don't read is because of school. Most of my friends who don't read tell me that it just feels like too much work. And look at the books we make them read. The Great Gatsby. Kill me now. Red Badge of Courage. Too terrible for words. Romeo and Juliet. Shakespeare said it was one of his worst plays, and yet we make students suffer through it. Sidhartha. Yeah, what a good way to get students to read. A journey about a guy discovering his religion. Ooooooh. I'm snoring just thinking about that book.

And that's barely scratching the surface. I look at the description and theme of Pride and Prejudice, and my eyes roll. I never actually read it. At least I was saved from that torture. If we let people read what they want, and make them do an in-depth book report on whatever topic the teacher is focusing on, I bet lots more people would be reading.

Now Nora will slaughter me because I bashed one of her favorite books that I haven't even read. :P


Haha-- maybe I can beat @Nora and @MammaMamae to the punch... or the millennial chainsaw massacre :)

@Lordoftheword @ultamentkiller and @S. K. InkSlinger

So on the "yes" side: English teachers are frigging awesome, wonderful, powerful, inspirational people. While  you were getting juiced about Ender's Game, I was really excited about Dune in high school, and T.H. White's Once and Future King (that series was dark af btw, Disney kept the sequels under wraps!). It's awesome to get engaged with fiction by someone who's accessible (writing in the style/medium of whatever times may be-- like TH White taking Arthurian legends and making them a sword and sorcery story), but there's a reason we need the classics too.

But "reading" is just one part of things-- there's so much more going on here.

The stories we tell are what makes us... "us".   We have a Western Civ lineage that goes from English classics to Greek Civ.  Native Americans have different stories depending on the tribe the Navajo do dances at the Ye Be Che each year re-enacting various myths and lessons etc.  Black slaves in the caribbean told stories of African myths layered in with elements of resistance in campfires away from their masters-- without those narratives their culture would have been destroyed and their minds bent to the point they wouldn't have had a basis with which to fight back when the opportunity presented itself.

Myths, stories, histories, are how we build on who we are-- and the ideas the underly them (Japanese animism in Japanese horror films, Feudalistic statism in Arthurian myths which bleed into hero-comics in America...) if we're not conscious of it... we're not conscious at all!  We're like 1/2 literate puppets that would be willing to vote a reality TV sociopath as President... errr...

So, look, if we erase our history, our thought and just have kids read 50 Shades of Grey, we're missing some stuff here.  The Crucible was a powerful testimonial to what happened in Salem... yet somehow we have Dragonage: Inquisition which, while a fun game, seems to be an evangelical erasure of how fucked up the actual Inquisition was....  Orwell's 1984 was drab and defeatist to the point of being anti-climactic, but it was a piercingly accurate critique of the state, and he even predicted televisions!  Never mind how emotionally engaging Animal Farm was, while tearing the hell out of Socialism.  Tho his nonfiction Homage to Catalonia is just f*ing incredible and one of the best books on earth.   If I hadn't read Huxley's Brave New World in english class, I wouldn't have had the tools to understand the ways capitalism warps our social institutions and our minds.  Yes, I read Siddhartha three times and I loved it!  Buddhist Jainism has ties Hinduism and Buddhism together, and actually set the stage for the monotheistic tradition-- aside from being spiritually enlightening, it helps us understand the theoretical and historical underpinnings that tie diverse religions together.

Should you write cyberpunk without being aware of William Gibson or fantasy without having read JRR Tolkien? Horror without knowing Lovecraft or Poe? I mean you *can* and there's nothing wrong with that--write whatever you want whenever you want--but you're missing any awareness of your place in the stream of things.  Prof Tolkien may not be everyone's cup of tea, but he did something no one had done before, inventing frigging languages and shit; and the trolls and elves and whatnot of today's fantasy-- they come from his re-creation perhaps more than they do from the English and Germanic myths. It's the basis of everything that followed.

That's why we should have kids not only read it in English class, but then dissect the fucked up ideas that underly it.  Tolkien's binaries of good and evil-- racialized in Orcs and Elves-- were a product of the WW1 and WW2 context, but they're still present today and equally false-- a way to demonize an entire place, inflected in our own racist predispositions.  Arthurian myths had a lot going on too-- not just the love triangle or the incest-- but it was a myth about a time when monotheism and (the grossly unequal) feudalism overtook druidic religions and (much more egalitarian) tribal organization.  Those romantic tales legitimate the abuse of power-- the statism then feeds into Hobbes's Leviathan, which feeds into Mathusian biology, which is tied to our own (grossly false) concepts of "human nature" used in everything from Freudian psychology to economics which in turn legitimate the vast majority of our current political policy (every f*ed up thing we do to ourselves is rationalized in terms of crackpot economics).  Don't get me started on the twisted concepts underlying Ender's Game...

I'm going off on tangents here, but my point is: yes, encourage kids to read YA.  But YA isn't enough.  Keep the classics, and more importantly reading isn't just about reading-- we need kids to learn how to *think* as well, or there will be nothing to stop the world from going to the utter hell it looks like it's going to right now.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2017, 02:18:51 PM by Bradley Darewood »

Offline The Gem Cutter

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Re: Worst cliches and how to make them new
« Reply #29 on: February 18, 2017, 02:32:55 PM »
English teachers are frigging awesome, wonderful, powerful, inspirational people.

While I certainly recognize this must be true somewhere, I never encountered such an English teacher. I got accusations of plagiarism and Grammar Nazi floggings. Good lessons, I suppose, as my own father thinks I come to this forum so others can write my stuff for me  ;D , but not the kind of inspirational mentorship you describe. More's the pity.
The Gem Cutter
"Each time, there is the same problem: do I dare? And then if you do dare, the dangers are there, and the help also, and the fulfillment or the fiasco. There's always the possibility of a fiasco. But there's also the possibility of bliss." - Joseph Campbell

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