December 08, 2019, 04:41:51 PM

Author Topic: Annoying Reading  (Read 6304 times)

Offline Francis Knight

Re: Annoying Reading
« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2015, 08:38:17 PM »
See, I'm much more conventional and boring: spelling and grammar are my bugbears ::)

Which is why editors/copy editors are worth their weight in gold, even if you self pub

My tongue has been in my cheek for so long, I've eroded a new mouth.


Duellists Trilogy (as Julia Knight) coming soon from Orbit!

http://www.juliaknight.co.uk/

Offline Rostum

Re: Annoying Reading
« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2015, 08:46:27 PM »
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What loses me in a heartbeat are characters who do things because the plot demands it rather than because it's what they'd do.

Have ground my teeth quite recently about that. Out of character always jarrs

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One of my fave books deals with "carrying a sword on your back" with a slip ring that releases it from the back so it slides to the hip -- pretty sure I've seen that in a museum somewhere too. Seemed pretty logical

Not seen this but can see it working except wouldn't the blade be the wrong way up? Or maybe i am not getting it after all? You could hold a baldric over your shoulder if it wasn't cinched by a belt with the sword straight over
your shoulder and drop it to your hip if needed but why would be the question.

If i could write I think the scene where the barbarian tries to draw his 2 handed sword over his shoulder while in a narrow underground tunnel may have some comedic merit. At least briefly.

Offline jefGoelz

Re: Annoying Reading
« Reply #17 on: July 02, 2015, 03:34:16 AM »
In no particular order (and off the top of my head):
1. plots driven by character stupidity (antagonists or protagonists).
2. grammar that is so bad as to make it difficult to read.
3. so much world-building that it seems like a travelogue rather than a novel (particularly at the beginning).
4. withholding information that the POV character would have.
5. multiple cliches that aren't twisted in some way.
6. main characters that have no agency, just get swept along by the actions of others
. . .

Offline jefGoelz

Re: Annoying Reading
« Reply #18 on: July 02, 2015, 03:38:10 AM »
Violence should always be the last resort unless it is unobserved and by surprise. Killing violence seems to be a bad idea in pretty much any society unless you have nothing left to lose.

In a world that approximates ours, that is true. Maybe only the first and second-world countries, at that.

In a fantastic world, it might not be true (the baddest swordsmen in a society of farmers might be able to get away with anything). However, there should be consequences - - without consequences there might not be a meaningful story.

Offline jefGoelz

Re: Annoying Reading
« Reply #19 on: July 02, 2015, 03:40:24 AM »
This. Once is enough to make me sigh and roll my eyes, many times just gets increasingly irritating. Can't think of what else bugs me right now...  ;D
all of my ex-girlfriends had the fidelity and loving, self-sacrificing, personalities of cats.
;)

Offline Doctor_Chill

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Re: Annoying Reading
« Reply #20 on: July 02, 2015, 04:29:02 AM »
I don't like head hopping, which is why I usually stay as far away from omni as I can get. ;)
“It’s a dangerous thing, pretense. A man ought to know who he is, even if he isn’t proud to be it.” - Tomorrow the Killing, Daniel Polansky

Offline Misty.Mikes

Re: Annoying Reading
« Reply #21 on: July 02, 2015, 06:50:51 AM »
Female characters who are described as "tough" or "strong", only to immediately qualify that with, "But not as strong as a guy.  Obviously." 

Apologies to anyone who might like this series, but the Mercy Thompson books come to mind as the worst offender I've seen. 

In the very first page, we are introduced to a woman running a garage (that she of course only owns because it was gifted to her by her male former employer). By the end of the page, all we know about Mercy is that she's totally strong and independent.... but not as strong as a Big Strong Man, and therefore is having trouble with this Very Important Engine Repair.  :P 

Give me a break. 

By the end of the book, all of the important plot events have been driven by the actions of male secondary characters.  In fact, there were several times where I was forced to endure sitting and listening to a scene that was all about Mercy's squishy girl feelings while there were far more interesting things being done off-screen by other characters. 

That is not a strong female character, if you ask me.  That is a fragile flower cosplaying as a biker chick. 

Needless to say, I did not pick up the next book!  XD

Offline Francis Knight

Re: Annoying Reading
« Reply #22 on: July 02, 2015, 08:52:05 AM »
Not seen this but can see it working except wouldn't the blade be the wrong way up?


Not if you have it on your back the right way? It was a long time ago I saw it in the museum (or wherever) but no, it wasn't the wrong way up. I'll see if I can find a pic ETA it is annoyingly hard to find on google! Will keep trying. Maybe it had another name....


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why would be the question.

Ease of movement while not needing your sword, iirc. Having a ruddy great sword at your waist would unbalance you/get in the way. Having it on your back is much better for moving (esp when riding?) but the slip ring meant it was the matter of moments to have it where you could use it.



« Last Edit: July 02, 2015, 09:04:31 AM by Francis Knight »
My tongue has been in my cheek for so long, I've eroded a new mouth.


Duellists Trilogy (as Julia Knight) coming soon from Orbit!

http://www.juliaknight.co.uk/

Offline Rostum

Re: Annoying Reading
« Reply #23 on: July 02, 2015, 05:36:27 PM »
Quote
Quote from: Rostum on July 01, 2015, 08:46:27 PM

Not seen this but can see it working except wouldn't the blade be the wrong way up?


Not if you have it on your back the right way? It was a long time ago I saw it in the museum (or wherever) but no, it wasn't the wrong way up. I'll see if I can find a pic ETA it is annoyingly hard to find on google! Will keep trying. Maybe it had another name....


Don't stress it or give up time better spent on it on other things.

Quote
Quote

why would be the question.

Ease of movement while not needing your sword, iirc. Having a ruddy great sword at your waist would unbalance you/get in the way. Having it on your back is much better for moving (esp when riding?) but the slip ring meant it was the matter of moments to have it where you could use it.


I have worn a number of swords from different periods and certainly ease of of movement doesn't come into it if its set up properly for the user. You adjust your gait accordingly and it keeps one hand busy but you can run with no real risk of tripping yourself.

Now here is something for you.
If you are riding you remove your sword and scabbard from your waist. As you move you will give the horse false guides with the scabbard if you don't by tapping it on the flank with the end of the sword.
Ponies only tolerate being told to go and then being reigned in every time they try to for so long. The ears go back and they lose the rider pretty quick as a rule. On medieval war saddles a steel ring at the front and offside of the saddle gets round this you can still draw your sword but don't tap your horse on the flanks as you are riding as the saddle is angled and hold the blade away from the horse.


Offline Francis Knight

Re: Annoying Reading
« Reply #24 on: July 02, 2015, 06:48:26 PM »
I managed (at last!) to find a piccie of what I am talking about, or similar anyway

Apparently, today's reading suggests, in Europe back-scabbards were not the thing, but they were in parts of Asia. Which makes sense as the book I am thinking of had Japanese...themes?

Anywhere here is pic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scabbard#/media/File:Samurai_wearing_a_nodachi_(field_sword).png

The string? or whathaveyou would be worn short to keep it on shoulder, but could be slipped so the blade drops down to draw.

As for blade getting in the way -- that probably depends a lot on the size of the sword! In Europe, many times big swords were taken to battle on carts. Which is probably even a slower draw....but a big thing flapping behind your legs knocking stuff is not ideal in many situations

If you know you aren't going to use a sword, or need to, in the foreseeable makes sense to have it out of the way, but still accessible


And thank you for today's procrastination
My tongue has been in my cheek for so long, I've eroded a new mouth.


Duellists Trilogy (as Julia Knight) coming soon from Orbit!

http://www.juliaknight.co.uk/

Offline Rostum

Re: Annoying Reading
« Reply #25 on: July 02, 2015, 09:38:09 PM »
I thought that might be your avoiding real research or writing excuse.
Thanks for going to the trouble. I see what you mean now. I think the way this works is you grab the handle and pull the scabbard down the curve, the weight of the nodashi and the fact that the scabbards are rigid keeps the scabbard in the rings (loose knots) but you can pull the scabbard through them. So really you are pulling the scabbard away rather than drawing the sword from it. I couldn't do this with a straight bladed  sword of simular proportions (10-12" grip and 42" of blade) but the curve helps with the draw. I also note how low the Katana he is wearing is set and the wakizishi is round his back. This is to keep it's hilt out the way so he can use the bigger sword without catching on the other blades he carries.

I suspect the stuff on carts are replacements for the stuff you are carrying. It dont last long when it gets used.
Most soldiers carry their gear, but will also need replacements. You also need to be able to clear a battlefield you don't have to retreat from of any tin wear and sharp and pointies or they get used against you again.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2015, 09:46:02 PM by Rostum »

Offline Francis Knight

Re: Annoying Reading
« Reply #26 on: July 02, 2015, 10:37:47 PM »
Well it's not entirely useless research!

Apparently taking swords on a cart to battle was A Thing in places/times. If you are travelling through friendly territory on your way to a battle...you carry some defence, but your big sword goes on the cart.

In Europe, a common way to carry a big sword was over the shoulder, no scabbard (many wqoodcuts show this sort of image for example http://www.albion-swords.com/images/swords/albion/nextGen/maximilian/landesknecht-Doppelsoldner.jpg ) but it;s not exactly practical in usual situations, ie not going to war. I keep thinking of Laurel and Hardy and the innocent swing of the two by four....slightly more fatal when a sharp edge is involved. And like I say, things were different in Asia from in Europe (unsurprisingly!)





My tongue has been in my cheek for so long, I've eroded a new mouth.


Duellists Trilogy (as Julia Knight) coming soon from Orbit!

http://www.juliaknight.co.uk/

Offline Rostum

Re: Annoying Reading
« Reply #27 on: July 03, 2015, 12:43:59 PM »
Yup its hard to find a picture of one of them Swiss dudes without a sword over his shoulder. This is made easier as only some of the blade is sharp and some of the blocks involve holding the middle of the blade with the off hand.

Offline jefGoelz

Re: Annoying Reading
« Reply #28 on: July 04, 2015, 02:06:37 AM »

Apparently taking swords on a cart to battle was A Thing in places/times. 


Or just have a squire be a caddy who gives you your weapon, upon request.

"The two-hander, boss?"

"No, Mac, give me the hammer for this guy."

Offline Rostum

Re: Annoying Reading
« Reply #29 on: July 04, 2015, 10:12:14 AM »
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The two-hander, boss?"

"No, Mac, give me the hammer for this guy."

 ;D
I seem to recall a scene from jabberwoky which is exactly that. Except the knight just grunts until given what he wants. Tom Holt has a squire with a golf cart to carry all the stuff the hero might need in one of his books.