March 20, 2019, 05:51:32 PM

Author Topic: A story about abortion  (Read 2483 times)

Offline TBM

Re: A story about abortion
« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2016, 01:37:27 AM »
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Haha. Yes there is. If you're starving and cannibalism keeps you from dying, it's a desperate act.

That link talks about ritualistic child cannibalism, protest, and shock art. It doesn't mention starvation.

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Besides, let me point out that the fetus would be ridiculously small. There is no way a cro magnon woman aborts beyond the second month I think. Go bait your dino with a bloody pulp the length of a finger, come back with your results in credibility.

It might be the blood that draws the dino. Not the size. One drop of blood will draw a shark, perhaps some dinosaurs are similar.

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Bait can be anything, if your tribe is a bunch of hunters, you can't justify them using a fetus as bait.

Energy conservation. The other bait could go to other use. Energy is rarely wasted in the wild, and these are prehistoric times.

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Yeah and let's see what your luck is selling this book to only women who feel alright with aborting because they're told to. I'm sure they're all into dino fantasy.
Oh and good luck with the editor as well. And thrilled beta readers.

The purposes of some books are to disturb and revulse. Not every book is supposed to please in a conventional manner.
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Would you really eat a human fetus? Would you?

No, but that doesn't mean I'm inherently against reading about such people.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2016, 01:38:58 AM by TBM »

Offline Nora

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Re: A story about abortion
« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2016, 01:58:57 AM »
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Haha. Yes there is. If you're starving and cannibalism keeps you from dying, it's a desperate act.

That link talks about ritualistic child cannibalism, protest, and shock art. It doesn't mention starvation.

Yet it's something that would have been not uncommon in prehistoric times right? Along with shock politics.

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Besides, let me point out that the fetus would be ridiculously small. There is no way a cro magnon woman aborts beyond the second month I think. Go bait your dino with a bloody pulp the length of a finger, come back with your results in credibility.

It might be the blood that draws the dino. Not the size. One drop of blood will draw a shark, perhaps some dinosaurs are similar.

Following your very own logic, the sisterhood could toss all their harvested period waste (since women tend to all get their periods at the same time when living close together) and use it as your bait.
Or their could cut their finger and leave two drops on a leaf. Boom.

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Bait can be anything, if your tribe is a bunch of hunters, you can't justify them using a fetus as bait.

Energy conservation. The other bait could go to other use. Energy is rarely wasted in the wild, and these are prehistoric times.

Right. Sure. I'm sure prehistoric people would never be silly enough to 'waste' one rabbit in exchange from killing one dangerous dino. Sounds like a loosy trade right? One rabbit (or hey, compared to fetus size, probably one hamster) could be put to so much better use than rid them of a dangerous predator.
Besides, who needs religion and social set up to build a realistic fictional world right? 

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Yeah and let's see what your luck is selling this book to only women who feel alright with aborting because they're told to. I'm sure they're all into dino fantasy.
Oh and good luck with the editor as well. And thrilled beta readers.

The purposes of some books are to disturb and revulse. Not every book is supposed to please in a conventional manner.

Yes but your purpose as a writer who wants to shock and disturb is to not loose your reader the moment they read your blurb, your reviews, or your first chapter.
Worse, ideally, you'd like to make it past an editor. Because without a good one, good luck selling that kind of stuff.
There are plenty of disturbing books out there.
The point is, they're not pointless, or try to have deeper meaning or a serious opinion. They're not carefree in their depiction of the shocking material. Or else they're failure or destined to a readership I don't think most writers would actually enjoy having.

The purpose of some books might be to shock, but you need to snatch the reader, and at the end they need to have something to mull over. Something to churn in their mind. If it's just plain dirty old shock, then you can just go and read The Consumer by Gira. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/676920.The_Consumer?from_search=true&search_version=service

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When the blurb on the back of a book features a quote from Nick Cave—the man who utilized exactly 236 different terms for vagina and masturbation in his wonderful novel The Death of Bunny Munro—calling your book repulsive, you know you have managed some kind of achievement…

Even Gira - and the Devil knows I've read his book, urgh - can sometimes give you something to mull over in his repulsion. He writes ONLY repulsive things.
Spoiler for Hiden:
And that includes a filthy uncle doing nothing while he stumbles on his little 5 years old niece being raped by a dirty hobo that got in the house and she sees him looking on but not intervening before passing out. And stories about people eating themselves in an auto-errotic manner.
So his point is carried through the gross. It's an experience in itself, like deciding to jump in a pool of tar to know what it feels like. It's not like a random plot line decorated with dead babies to try and raise people's hackles.


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Would you really eat a human fetus? Would you?

No, but that doesn't mean I'm inherently against reading about such people.
But as it is 'such people' ought to have something interesting going on about them, or their culture, to make such a thing interesting. Making humans barely better than apes doesn't make it interesting.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2016, 02:00:32 AM by Nora »
"She will need coffee soon, or molecular degeneration will set in. Her French phrasing will take over even more strongly, and soon she will dissolve into a puddle of alienation and Kierkegaardian despair."  ~ Jmack

Wishy washy lyricism and maudlin unrequited love are my specialty - so said Lady_Ty

Offline NinjaRaptor

Re: A story about abortion
« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2016, 02:06:54 AM »
Look, I already stated my apology and took back the whole abortion theme. I am still interested in the prehistoric setting and my concept of a "sisterhood"---if anything, the abortion thing came to me because I wanted a story about a young woman wanting to join it but having a certain "burden" that made the huntresses reluctant to accept her. It was an off-the-cuff idea and I know there's more to be developed of the characters and their world. So can everyone please calm the fuck down and drop it?
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Offline Nora

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Re: A story about abortion
« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2016, 02:18:41 AM »
So can everyone please calm the fuck down and drop it?
Since you ask it so nicely...

But you opened a thread, people are allowed to have conversations in it, you know? Things can drift. If you don't like people answering TBM, you should ask a mod to have the whole topic closed.

As for your heroin, if you want her having difficulties belonging, there are a plethora of possibilities : disability, mere difference (being blond, having green eyes, having motley skin patterns, missing a finger, ect. Beware, albinism comes with serious eye problems and often near blindness, so not an easy choice). Or some mark seen as proof of being a witch or a cursed person.
Since we used to call out people witches by their hairline (witch's peak) you've got plenty of room to find something. She could also come to the sisterhood as pregnant and actually give birth, if your sisterhood is made out of cast out women who couldn't give birth and were chased from their clans for it, then having a kid would make her stand out negatively, until she can prove herself as a huntress and eventually your tribe women could care for the babe all together.
"She will need coffee soon, or molecular degeneration will set in. Her French phrasing will take over even more strongly, and soon she will dissolve into a puddle of alienation and Kierkegaardian despair."  ~ Jmack

Wishy washy lyricism and maudlin unrequited love are my specialty - so said Lady_Ty

Offline NinjaRaptor

Re: A story about abortion
« Reply #19 on: March 01, 2016, 02:25:45 AM »
Since we used to call out people witches by their hairline (witch's peak) you've got plenty of room to find something. She could also come to the sisterhood as pregnant and actually give birth, if your sisterhood is made out of cast out women who couldn't give birth and were chased from their clans for it, then having a kid would make her stand out negatively, until she can prove herself as a huntress and eventually your tribe women could care for the babe all together.
I did have her cast out of her tribe for killing her husband (even though it was in defense), so maybe I could keep that part. Will probably remove the pity-sex idea though. Give me some time to think this over...
NEW self-published anthology:
Dinosaurs & Dames

Offline Nora

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Re: A story about abortion
« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2016, 02:43:22 AM »
I'd read Earth's Children by Jean M Auel if I were you. Best and most famous prehistorical drama and setting ever published. It would help a lot give depth to your world building
"She will need coffee soon, or molecular degeneration will set in. Her French phrasing will take over even more strongly, and soon she will dissolve into a puddle of alienation and Kierkegaardian despair."  ~ Jmack

Wishy washy lyricism and maudlin unrequited love are my specialty - so said Lady_Ty

Offline ArhiX

Re: A story about abortion
« Reply #21 on: March 01, 2016, 03:28:21 AM »
Wasn't there a book/game or something like that with a woman being sick with the schizophrenia in prehistoric setting, who thought she hears a "Voice of God". That was a really cool idea too.
"The world is full of stories, and from time to time, they permit themselves to be told."

Offline TBM

Re: A story about abortion
« Reply #22 on: March 01, 2016, 01:53:09 PM »
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Yet it's something that would have been not uncommon in prehistoric times right? Along with shock politics.

There's a modern day artist who made foetus earrings: http://www.rickgibson.net/freezedry.html

If theres someone in the human race who would do that, its so hard to believe theres someone whod leave it for dinosaurs?  ???


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Following your very own logic, the sisterhood could toss all their harvested period waste (since women tend to all get their periods at the same time when living close together) and use it as your bait.

Their time of the month could be written as weeks away.


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Or their could cut their finger and leave two drops on a leaf. Boom.

Boom added unnecessary infection risk.


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Right. Sure. I'm sure prehistoric people would never be silly enough to 'waste' one rabbit in exchange from killing one dangerous dino. Sounds like a loosy trade right? One rabbit (or hey, compared to fetus size, probably one hamster) could be put to so much better use than rid them of a dangerous predator.

But in terms of energy, the fetus is still the better trade. By the calorie amount of the hamster.


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Yes but your purpose as a writer who wants to shock and disturb is to not loose your reader the moment they read your blurb, your reviews, or your first chapter.
Worse, ideally, you'd like to make it past an editor. Because without a good one, good luck selling that kind of stuff.

Self edit, self publish, self promote. Whoever reads it reads it. Authors should ultimately write the story they want. 


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There are plenty of disturbing books out there.
The point is, they're not pointless, or try to have deeper meaning or a serious opinion.

The writer already stated the intended meaning and his opinion, an opinion he seems to hold seriously.

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The purpose of some books might be to shock, but you need to snatch the reader, and at the end they need to have something to mull over. Something to churn in their mind. If it's just plain dirty old shock, then you can just go and read The Consumer by Gira. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/676920.The_Consumer?from_search=true&search_version=service

Provided one hasn't read it already.

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But as it is 'such people' ought to have something interesting going on about them, or their culture, to make such a thing interesting. Making humans barely better than apes doesn't make it interesting.

He made one or at most a few humans barely beter than apes afaik. People have always had a fascination with the intellectually challenged making bad decisions in flawed ways. aka Jerry Springer/Maury Povitch etc.

Offline NinjaRaptor

Re: A story about abortion
« Reply #23 on: March 01, 2016, 02:11:13 PM »
For what it's worth, it was my original plan to portray the abortion and feeding of the fetus as the "big sacrifice" moment that the character had to make before the climax. As in, how she got out of the traditional story-structure nadir. I pictured that she would be making an extremely difficult decision and that she would mourn the child as a tragic loss afterward. So no, even if my summary was written on the fly, it wasn't like I meant to make her look "no better than apes" (whom I recall can be very affectionate mothers---some in captivity have even taken care of pets like cats) or bestial and indifferent.
NEW self-published anthology:
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Offline Nora

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Re: A story about abortion
« Reply #24 on: March 01, 2016, 02:33:06 PM »
Apes are also known to hunt other monkeys and eat them. And fling their shit in anger. Apes are not human, however cute or compassionate you think them. They might have a social ladder, it doesn't mean they have culture. (Besides, lionesses also raised baby deer and tigresses baby pigs, so many animals, even big predators can be indiscriminate loving mothers.)
Humans in prehistory had art, tradition, and very likely religion. It's what Jean M Auel wrote so wonderfully about and made me fall in love with prehistoric ages. Really you should read her, and start world building. Maybe a serious background could give you room to make an abortion scene work. Abortion, contraception and birth are all occurring events that are very well researched in Earth's Children.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2016, 02:35:24 PM by Nora »
"She will need coffee soon, or molecular degeneration will set in. Her French phrasing will take over even more strongly, and soon she will dissolve into a puddle of alienation and Kierkegaardian despair."  ~ Jmack

Wishy washy lyricism and maudlin unrequited love are my specialty - so said Lady_Ty

Offline NinjaRaptor

Re: A story about abortion
« Reply #25 on: March 01, 2016, 03:42:14 PM »
I did actually read Clan of the Cave Bear once. I believe I still have it over at my parents' place an hour away; and yes, I remember it had detailed world-building. Another book in that genre which I really like is Steven Barnes's Great Sky Woman, which has an African setting near Mt. Kilimanjaro. And then some fantasy works I've read (e.g. Imaro I and Orishadaon: To The Ends of the Urth) have "tribal" settings but aren't necessarily Stone Age or hunter-gatherers (e.g. some of them have metal tools and/or animal husbandry).
NEW self-published anthology:
Dinosaurs & Dames

Offline Nora

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Re: A story about abortion
« Reply #26 on: March 01, 2016, 11:17:32 PM »
You should read the other ones. I started liking it less at book 5, but Ayla's travels and love story with Jobdalar are great, and more world building comes with the different people they see as they go.
"She will need coffee soon, or molecular degeneration will set in. Her French phrasing will take over even more strongly, and soon she will dissolve into a puddle of alienation and Kierkegaardian despair."  ~ Jmack

Wishy washy lyricism and maudlin unrequited love are my specialty - so said Lady_Ty

Offline jefGoelz

Re: A story about abortion
« Reply #27 on: March 02, 2016, 05:42:13 AM »
I'm really hoping that February 29th has the same connotation as April 1st in some cultures.