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Author Topic: Prologue- VI Erdane  (Read 8708 times)

Offline Eclipse

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Prologue- VI Erdane
« on: February 10, 2016, 08:02:55 PM »
We get into the thick of things straight away with the bosun and his crew, I really liked the tension what came with them capturing Arithon and then onto the Brine with the first Officer and how to stop Arithon from escaping and what to do with him (for a character with no name just first officer I wanted to see more of this guy)

Enjoyed Lysaer birthday memories, the Amroth Kings a bit of  a bastard isn't he

A High mage, the princes grandfather spying on them with another mage (clairvoyant?) I wonder if there play a part later on

Liked Arithon backs story of starting on his path to be a mage and his inner conflicts

If I was a royal Healer I just flee from that king and get a less stressful job  ;D

Arithon and Lysaer mother would have liked to have known more about her she seems quite powerful magically

The red desert water giving a five hundred year lifespan interesting, I liked how the brothers escaped from the creepy living darkness to the next gate

Turned on its head in this story the nobles live in the wild and the commoners live in the town   :)

Arithons sword! Alithiel how powerful is that then the Khadrim (dragons?) just fled

So do you think Arithon will become a bard later on after Felrin got him to swear an oath?

I think I will like Elaira not sure yet

I did have a problem trying to visualise the Lyats
« Last Edit: February 10, 2016, 08:13:15 PM by Eclipse »
According to some,* heroic deaths are admirable things

* Generally those who don't have to do it.Politicians and writers spring to mind

Jonathan Stroud:Ptolmy's Gate

Offline JMack

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Re: Prologue- VI Erdane
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2016, 10:12:54 PM »
Not reading Eclipse's post, since I'm just through the Prologue and Chapter 1. But dropping in to say: excellent, so far. And this despite my concern that Prologue was indicating an overly preachy, infobomb approach. Far from it. I'm particularly impressed with the crystal clear descriptions of actions, motivations and reactions. Establishes believabiity from "Go".

Section 2 of Chapter 1:
Boy, that took some concentration to really get all the backstory. I struggled for awhile to understand the King's comment: "Your father should have made your dowry more accessible." So that... Someone less demanding and awful would have been willing to marry her; as in, only a king could afford her? Or, what I think was meant, it should have been easier to ensure that Shadow mage rather than a Light mage woud be birthed by her. It's still a dense paragraph.

Meanwhile, the Shadow Magic not only manipulated light, it also allows plumbing the depths of the mind. It will be interesting to learn the outlines of this world's magic.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2016, 11:47:54 PM by Jmack »
Change, when it comes, will step lightly before it kicks like thunder. (GRMatthews)
You are being naive if you think that any sweet and light theme cannot be strangled and force fed it's own flesh. (Nora)
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Offline Idlewilder

Re: Prologue- VI Erdane
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2016, 10:15:20 PM »
I will come back with more thoughts tomorrow but suggest for future posts we limit to 2-3 chapters as there is a ton to process at least so far.

Glad you're liking it @Jmack - I can definitely see some baroque similarities with Wurts' prose and Tolkiens, so glad you're impressed thus far!
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Offline Idlewilder

Re: Prologue- VI Erdane
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2016, 11:29:14 AM »
Ok, so I'm trying to think what else to mention as there's a lot to cover. I'll try and go through some of Eclipse's points first:

Quote
We get into the thick of things straight away with the bosun and his crew, I really liked the tension what came with them capturing Arithon and then onto the Brine with the first Officer and how to stop Arithon from escaping and what to do with him (for a character with no name just first officer I wanted to see more of this guy)

He seemed a good character, the no-name thing was unusual, despite spending quite a bit of time with him at the beginning. Maybe Wurts was trying to keep us as distant from him as possible, knowing he wouldn't be in it for long.

I absolutely love her prose though - it is certainly dense and descriptive, so not for everyone, but I find it just pulls me right into the world. This opener was stunning: 'The longboat cleaved waters stained blood-red by sunset, far beyond sight of any shore.'

Quote
Enjoyed Lysaer birthday memories, the Amroth Kings a bit of  a bastard isn't he

He's pretty horrendous! I wonder if we will ever see him and Dascen Elur again or if we're stuck in Athera for the remainder of the story? I bet we aren't!

Quote
A High mage, the princes grandfather spying on them with another mage (clairvoyant?) I wonder if there play a part later on

I'm not sure how far you are though obviously you've met Asandir. There's a lot more of the mages to come.  :D

Quote
Arithon and Lysaer mother would have liked to have known more about her she seems quite powerful magically

Pretty sure we will learn lots about her. I can't remember now but was it the Fellowship that trained her or the Enchantresses? Must mean she's been to Athera...

Quote
The red desert water giving a five hundred year lifespan interesting, I liked how the brothers escaped from the creepy living darkness to the next gate

I loooved this scene. Actually this whole sequence, from when they are literally thrown through the gate as it shimmers in the light. Traipsing through the desert, Arithon trying to stay awake, Lysaer stepping on the water-bag, coming back for him. The fountain is especially intriguing as wasn't it labelled as that of Davien the Betrayer? Again not too sure how far into it you are at this point so can't say anything...

Quote
Arithons sword! Alithiel how powerful is that then the Khadrim (dragons?) just fled

Another great scene! It's difficult to always remember how Arithon has been fully trained as a sorcerer, whereas Lysaer hasn't - makes you wonder what Lysaer will be like/how powerful he will be with full training. And who will train him...

Quote
So do you think Arithon will become a bard later on after Felrin got him to swear an oath?

 :-X

Quote
I think I will like Elaira not sure yet

I think so too - she seems pretty awesome thus far! Also a big fan of Maenelle.

Quote
I did have a problem trying to visualise the Lyats

Pixie lights? Or maybe a little like spren in The Stormlight Archive for those that have read it.


Few more thoughts. I like that Arithon and Lysaer both have elements to their personalities that we can be drawn to and those we repel against, which - going by the prologue - is clearly the point of the whole series. Arithon is the more obvious protagonist, but I'll be curious to see where Wurts goes with Lysaer.

The more intriguing parts for me so far are the inner-politics of Athera and its relationship with the Fellowship of the Seven and the Enchantresses. You guys have got some awesome characters coming up. I'm very excited by getting to know some of them better. Also the history of Athera and the Mistwraith - where have the Paravians gone, what does it mean, will they come back?

I like Asandir. He comes across like a stereotypical Gandalf figure to start with, but becomes a lot more...human, I think. Especially later on. Dakar is also great, and seems to be a fairly central figure.

And there's literally one paragraph I just read the other night that I can't effing wait for others to get to!

Oh, also, Lysaer and Arithon appear to have lifespans of 5 centuries now - what is that going to mean for this story? Shades of Malazan right there!   8)
« Last Edit: February 11, 2016, 11:32:00 AM by Idlewilder »
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Offline Eclipse

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Re: Prologue- VI Erdane
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2016, 03:53:44 PM »
I'm expecting Lysaer to turn out like his father in the long run we've already seen his hatred in the desert.

What do you think of Asandir being called Fiend-quencher over iyats ,when I think of fiend I think of demons not little pests.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2016, 05:23:44 PM by Eclipse »
According to some,* heroic deaths are admirable things

* Generally those who don't have to do it.Politicians and writers spring to mind

Jonathan Stroud:Ptolmy's Gate

Offline JMack

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Re: Prologue- VI Erdane
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2016, 12:14:45 PM »
Fitting these chapters between other books.
Just decided to read some and almost the first sentence I bumped into was:

"The weapon was rarely beautiful."

Anyone want to mention all the ways in which this is just a really bad sentence?

"Well, yes, I know it's ugly now, sticking out of you like this. But there are rare occassions on which it is quite beautiful. I polish it up a bit, put some sparkles on the pommel - you know, the ones you get for a dollar at the party store - try to make it not look like such a brute. Quite pretty if the lights are off and you don't have to kiss it."



Meanwhile, the whole seciton this is in is really hard to follow. Of course, our mage hero is in a fever dream, so I guess that makes sense. But: "Cheeks too proud not to show the signs of grief..." Er, what?

And Christ it just keeps going:

"Spirits were rarely high." This at a huge dinner with people drinking to the lees. Perhaps, just maybe, the author meant "Spritis had rarely been as high." But, that's probably just me thinking I know English.

I want to quote Inigo Montoya: "I do not think that word means what you think it means."


Can't resist.

"His graceless stride betrayed otherwise; but the hissed insults from the galleries failed to raise any response."
So, the first part should be connected to the prior sentence, and the second part has no relation to the first part at all. Are there no editors? For pity's sake, are there at last no editors?!
« Last Edit: February 13, 2016, 01:02:39 PM by Jmack »
Change, when it comes, will step lightly before it kicks like thunder. (GRMatthews)
You are being naive if you think that any sweet and light theme cannot be strangled and force fed it's own flesh. (Nora)
www.starlit-lands.com

Offline JMack

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Re: Prologue- VI Erdane
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2016, 03:15:45 PM »
Hey, @Eclipse?
Can you explain the gates? Maybe I'm missing something.

If the princes were betrayed by exiling them on the other side of the gates, how is it that the two brothers could be sent back through them? And the gates are dead in the desert side. Or... What?
Change, when it comes, will step lightly before it kicks like thunder. (GRMatthews)
You are being naive if you think that any sweet and light theme cannot be strangled and force fed it's own flesh. (Nora)
www.starlit-lands.com

Offline Eclipse

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Re: Prologue- VI Erdane
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2016, 03:20:21 PM »
Hey, @Eclipse?
Can you explain the gates? Maybe I'm missing something.

If the princes were betrayed by exiling them on the other side of the gates, how is it that the two brothers could be sent back through them? And the gates are dead in the desert side. Or... What?

I believe that gate is one way only
According to some,* heroic deaths are admirable things

* Generally those who don't have to do it.Politicians and writers spring to mind

Jonathan Stroud:Ptolmy's Gate

Offline JMack

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Re: Prologue- VI Erdane
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2016, 10:05:57 PM »
Into chapter 5.
The bad writing continues.

"Lysaer and Arithon poised to one side..."
Um. Poised is not a verb.

"Suddenly inimical to the wizard's provocations, Lysaer turned to the horse..."
Um. I can't even describe how the author thinks he's using the word inimical here.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2016, 10:13:46 PM by Jmack »
Change, when it comes, will step lightly before it kicks like thunder. (GRMatthews)
You are being naive if you think that any sweet and light theme cannot be strangled and force fed it's own flesh. (Nora)
www.starlit-lands.com

Offline Eclipse

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Re: Prologue- VI Erdane
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2016, 10:18:49 PM »
Immaterial ?
According to some,* heroic deaths are admirable things

* Generally those who don't have to do it.Politicians and writers spring to mind

Jonathan Stroud:Ptolmy's Gate

Offline Idlewilder

Re: Prologue- VI Erdane
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2016, 11:06:21 PM »
Um. I can't even describe how the author thinks he's using the word inimical here.

she, just fyi...
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Offline xiagan

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Re: Prologue- VI Erdane
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2016, 05:21:49 PM »
Turned on its head in this story the nobles live in the wild and the commoners live in the town   :)
Quite interesting and believably crafted. And that the accents of the brothers automatically averse the people in cities is cool.

Quote
We get into the thick of things straight away with the bosun and his crew, I really liked the tension what came with them capturing Arithon and then onto the Brine with the first Officer and how to stop Arithon from escaping and what to do with him (for a character with no name just first officer I wanted to see more of this guy)

He seemed a good character, the no-name thing was unusual, despite spending quite a bit of time with him at the beginning. Maybe Wurts was trying to keep us as distant from him as possible, knowing he wouldn't be in it for long.

I absolutely love her prose though - it is certainly dense and descriptive, so not for everyone, but I find it just pulls me right into the world. This opener was stunning: 'The longboat cleaved waters stained blood-red by sunset, far beyond sight of any shore.'
For me it was a bit too much - actually similar to the start of Gardens of the Moon (not the prologue but the besieging of Pale and the fights and the interactions between characters you don't know) - and I had a hard time getting into it.

Now after the first six chapters (holy hell, there happened so much already I wondered a few times how it could be that I still had not reached the first discussion point) I'm really intrigued and the similarities to Malazan (though this is older, right?) are not to dismiss.

Quote
Quote
Enjoyed Lysaer birthday memories, the Amroth Kings a bit of  a bastard isn't he

He's pretty horrendous! I wonder if we will ever see him and Dascen Elur again or if we're stuck in Athera for the remainder of the story? I bet we aren't!
Absolutely agree. He's a bastard. Not sure if we'll be back to Dascen Elur but if they ever go back, I bet even Lysaer will be an inconvenience to the King and his new heir (or something like that), so that both aren't welcome there.

Quote
Quote
Arithon and Lysaer mother would have liked to have known more about her she seems quite powerful magically

Pretty sure we will learn lots about her. I can't remember now but was it the Fellowship that trained her or the Enchantresses? Must mean she's been to Athera...
I don't think so. Asandir tells us specifically that those who fled through the gates took magic training with them but over time forgot some of its rules which enabled them to bestow elemental mastery (something somebody from Athera needs centuries of training to get) into two unborn children.

Quote
Quote
The red desert water giving a five hundred year lifespan interesting, I liked how the brothers escaped from the creepy living darkness to the next gate

I loooved this scene. Actually this whole sequence, from when they are literally thrown through the gate as it shimmers in the light. Traipsing through the desert, Arithon trying to stay awake, Lysaer stepping on the water-bag, coming back for him. The fountain is especially intriguing as wasn't it labelled as that of Davien the Betrayer? Again not too sure how far into it you are at this point so can't say anything...
I was really annoyed by the part where they walked through the desert and Lysaer's hate and aggression. The part with the fountain and the curse was cool, though. Yes, it was labelled as that of Davien and since there is a glossary in the end of the book you can already read who he is/was.

Quote
Quote
Arithons sword! Alithiel how powerful is that then the Khadrim (dragons?) just fled

Another great scene! It's difficult to always remember how Arithon has been fully trained as a sorcerer, whereas Lysaer hasn't - makes you wonder what Lysaer will be like/how powerful he will be with full training. And who will train him...
Yeah, very cool sword. I hope Lysaer won't do something stupid out of envy. I don't trust his emotions or his ability to control his impulses.

Btw. Arithon, Alithiel, Athera, Asandir... It would have been a bit easier if the names wouldn't all be so similar.

Quote
Quote
So do you think Arithon will become a bard later on after Felrin got him to swear an oath?

 :-X
Probably. The bard king. ;)

Quote
Quote
I think I will like Elaira not sure yet
I think so too - she seems pretty awesome thus far! Also a big fan of Maenelle.
I don't think we've met Maenelle so far?
Elaira is cool but I bet she's another plot device to divide Arithon and Lysaer because they'll of course will both fall for her.

Quote
Few more thoughts. I like that Arithon and Lysaer both have elements to their personalities that we can be drawn to and those we repel against, which - going by the prologue - is clearly the point of the whole series. Arithon is the more obvious protagonist, but I'll be curious to see where Wurts goes with Lysaer.
Absolutely. It's interesting how Lysaer was first the noble and cool character and Arithon the filthy criminal and then Arithon became the more mature and capable character and Lysaer the unbalanced and spoiled one.
Curious when Lysaer will shine again.

Quote
The more intriguing parts for me so far are the inner-politics of Athera and its relationship with the Fellowship of the Seven and the Enchantresses. You guys have got some awesome characters coming up. I'm very excited by getting to know some of them better. Also the history of Athera and the Mistwraith - where have the Paravians gone, what does it mean, will they come back?
Felirin was already a cool one. :)

Quote
I like Asandir. He comes across like a stereotypical Gandalf figure to start with, but becomes a lot more...human, I think. Especially later on. Dakar is also great, and seems to be a fairly central figure.
Dakar is a bit unbelievable in my eyes. When he passed out in the four ravens just before the brawl or before they got the horses...

Quote
Oh, also, Lysaer and Arithon appear to have lifespans of 5 centuries now - what is that going to mean for this story? Shades of Malazan right there!   8)
Yeah, doesn't seem so uncommon in Athera, though. Aren't all the mages - apprentice Dakar included - that old?
"Sire, I had no need of that hypothesis." (Laplace)

Offline Idlewilder

Re: Prologue- VI Erdane
« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2016, 09:27:13 AM »
Now after the first six chapters (holy hell, there happened so much already I wondered a few times how it could be that I still had not reached the first discussion point) I'm really intrigued and the similarities to Malazan (though this is older, right?) are not to dismiss.

This was why I wanted discussion points of 2 or 3 chapters at a time. Eclipse reads so fast I just can't keep up!  :o

Not going to quote everything else as it was getting messy as hell.

Re: prose - I'm accepting I have no clue what makes up a good bit of writing anymore tbh.  ;)

Re: desert - don't know why you disliked it so much, it was easily one of my favourite sequences...

Re: the names being similar - yes, I suppose so but if I can manage the cast of thousands in Malazan often with similar names I'll manage here I think.

Re: Maenalle - I had no idea where we were in the story when I commented. And I think there will be more to Elaira than you're assuming, even if she does become a love interest. I don't think Wurts is the most traditional writer.

Re: Dakar - I didn't have a problem with him being a bit over the top. Malazan had Tehol and Bugg, Hellian and Hedge and a million other weird characters like that.

Re: their ages. The mages are all that old, but I don't get the impression it's all that common outside of them. That's like, less than 10 people...
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Offline xiagan

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Re: Prologue- VI Erdane
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2016, 09:59:01 AM »
Oh, those weren't complaints, just observations. :) I'm sure I'll manage too. ;)

I'm not sure Tehol and Bugg would gave worked that good if we had met them in the first volume.

And yes, I hope there's more to Elaira.

Re: desert: I think Lysaer's reactions were a bit over the top for me since (as I  said) he was introduced more balanced and just and had felt compassion for Arithon before.

Maenalle comes directly after that part and yep, she's cool. As is the conflict Lysaer has with his subjects. That will stay interesting for a long time I think.

The mages may only be ten (or seven + Dakar? +Verrain? How is it with the Enchantresses/the Prime?) but from the cast we saw so far, it's a high percentage.
"Sire, I had no need of that hypothesis." (Laplace)

Offline Eclipse

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Re: Prologue- VI Erdane
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2016, 10:24:47 AM »
Don't worry next topic chapters only consists of two chapters from now on.
According to some,* heroic deaths are admirable things

* Generally those who don't have to do it.Politicians and writers spring to mind

Jonathan Stroud:Ptolmy's Gate