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Messages - Yora

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16
Fritz Leiber's Fafhrd and Gray Mouser series, which could also be called the Lankhmar series. Which I prefer because it's easier to write.  :)

The Shadow over Innsmouth by Lovecraft.

And of course, The City of Dreaming Books by Walter Moers, which is all about an entire city that consists entirely of anything related to book nerdery.  ;)

17
General Discussion / Re: Art vs Artist
« on: February 20, 2020, 02:58:33 PM »
With the exception of Dredd it's all pretty even at ~40/60, and I wouldn't even count Dredd as a superhero movie.

19
Writers' Corner / Re: What makes a good story if its not the plot?
« on: February 13, 2020, 12:06:37 PM »
Perhaps the critical element that makes a plot relevant is stakes? If the hero will survive, the villain will be defeated, or the world be saved are not really questions. This is almost always a given. The real questions are what it will cost the heroes to get to the end and what they might gain in the process. That certainly is where the tension comes from, and it's also what makes this particular story personalized for this particular hero.
Most heroic adventure tales have pretty much identical plots, but they can vary considerably in what specifically is at stake for each individual hero.

20
Fantasy Book & Author Discussion / Re: What is sword and sorcery to you?
« on: February 13, 2020, 12:00:38 PM »
Having read Howard, Leiber, Wagner, and Moorcock, I have to say I find nothing subversive or parodying (?) about Elric.

It's very straightforward classic Sword & Sorcery.

21
Fantasy Book & Author Discussion / Re: What is sword and sorcery to you?
« on: February 12, 2020, 03:11:33 PM »
I would say that Sword & Sorcery is also inherently horror fantasy. Doesn't have to be super spooky or gory, but all the important S&S writers used plenty of horror elements and techniques.

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Writers' Corner / Re: What makes a good story if its not the plot?
« on: February 12, 2020, 01:39:32 PM »
I think many of us would read a massive essay.

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Fantasy Book & Author Discussion / Re: What is sword and sorcery to you?
« on: February 12, 2020, 11:16:00 AM »
When the term was first introduced, it specifically meant "Robert Howard, Fritz Leiber, and Michael Moorcock, and not Tolkien."

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Fantasy Book & Author Discussion / Re: What is sword and sorcery to you?
« on: February 12, 2020, 10:26:50 AM »
Sword & Sorcery are fantasy stories about encounters with the supernatural. They have protagonists who are motivated by things that matter to them personally, who are free to act outside the regular constraints of society, and who deal with the obstacles they face through action.

Sword & Sorcery is action adventure at its core, with a strong presence of strange, unknowable supernatural forces that threaten the protagonist.

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Writers' Corner / Re: What makes a good story if its not the plot?
« on: February 12, 2020, 12:20:44 AM »
What's that EM Forster quote about plot? "The king died and then the queen died is a story. The king died, and then queen died of grief is a plot." Plot is about why and how, more than what.
No, the other way around. Plot is the events and how they are connected. Story is plot plus all the other stuff.

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Fantasy Book & Author Discussion / Re: Roger Zelazney's Chronicles of Amber
« on: February 11, 2020, 09:21:50 PM »
I've heard of the name many times, but never heard anything of what it is about.

27
Writers' Corner / What makes a good story if its not the plot?
« on: February 11, 2020, 08:36:00 PM »
I saw a question of someone who seems to have the same problem as me with coming up with good plot ideas, and while thinking about it I realized that even though there are many great books, stories, and movies that I really like a lot, I don't really like any of them because of their great plot. It's not like the antagonist have mind blowing original motives or plans, and the plot twists don't carry a full story by themselves. So perhaps I can't find any really great plots that I want to write about at a great length because there really aren't any great plots.

But if plots aren't what makes a story good, interesting, and entertaining, what is? Wordcraft can be nice, but there are very entertaining stories that are really unimpressive in that regard.

What is a story worth reading if it's not an original plot?

28
Writers' Corner / Re: Non-linear storytelling and audience retention
« on: February 08, 2020, 09:57:55 AM »
My personal opionion, mostly as a reader and less so as a writer. Also, I am somewhat particular about these things and lots of people very much disagree with it.

The first thing that comes to my mind with these things is my opinion that prequels are never a good idea. I can think of only a single example where adding facts to an existing story before the beginning instead of after the ending was a good idea and worked out well. Which was the videogame Halo: Reach. That one worked because it was a given right from the start that the planet would be completely wiped out and every character die. The first game in the series started with explaining the planet was destroyed and only a single ship escaped.
Which leads to a subsequent problem that later audiences might want to experience the story in the chronological order, which in my opinion is the wrong order. The prequel was created under the assumption that the bulk of the audience already knew what would happen later, and all twists and reveals are based on that knowledge. Experiencing the works in chronological order means missing out on important things in the prequels, and then already knowing the answers to things that were supposed to be mysteries in the original works.
In the case of the game Halo: Reach, some people now play it first and the original games later. They don't know the characters can not win and can not survive. That gives them a completely different experience from people who know, for who the story was designed.
I think prequels are an inherently bad idea.

The other thing, which comes more from a writers perspective, is that it seems the story of character B relies heavily on witholding information from the readers that the character knows, which motivates him and steers his actions and decisions. This is always a very risky approach, as it can quickly feel to the readers like they are being lied to. It might keep some readers engaged who really want to know what the missing information is that has been dangling in front of their face and is necessary to understand what's going on, but drag that out for too kong and they will quit in frustration.
Cases where this kind of work have characters say they have a plan, which is not shared with the audience, and the plan being put into action right the next scene. That's short enough to not have the audience get frustrated. But do it over half a book and longer, and a lot of people will just give up on it.

Another question is have is, is character A really needed in this story? This sounds like it is the story of character B, and A is off doing something mostly unrelated that stops being relevant halfway through the story. Maybe leave that storyline out or make it a different book. That way you could also tell yhe story of B chronologically and avoid all the issues I mentioned above.

29
General Discussion / Re: Art vs Artist
« on: February 06, 2020, 08:58:39 AM »
Of course they have. Movies as well.

Not that the works are any less good than before, but they are no longer enjoyable.

30
General Discussion / Re: Art vs Artist
« on: February 04, 2020, 10:08:46 AM »
No, that doesn't make any sense.

He's been very vocal about Trump being a crook and the Republicans making the impeachment a farce the whole time. Apparently he wants her gone because regardless of how she voted about witnesses, he's certain she will acquit him anyway.

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