May 27, 2020, 01:56:03 PM

Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.

Messages - shadowkat678

Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 21
Some good points made there.

As to the children growing up, that's a solid argument. I'd respond that books are timeless. The very nature of the characters remaining 'as intended' is what makes them special. There was always space at the end of the book to write a (and going back to Harry Potter here) epilogue that jumps them forward in time for that happily ever after moment (or whatever they want). The point is, a world exists within the cover of a book, and it's the authors choice whether or not to continue their story.

I can't say that people shouldn't be allowed to write fanfic, but whenever I've read it it's been fairly terrible and is then stuck in my head alongside words I love. I'm not discounting the existence of many good ones, but why should the author have to blindly accept what others have written in their world.

As to creativity, that's a valid point when it's about world building. Like I said, it's easier to read something set in the same world but with different characters or a different time period. When it comes to characters though, it's already there, there's no agency required to 'fill in the blanks'. A massive part of any creative writing is developing personalities, the 'voice' of your characters.

I do still think that the author retains the rights to that universe and everything in it, so it comes down to if they've got an issue with it.

I don't have any real issue with fan art, I think because of the medium shift and it's hardly rewording the work. If anything, fan art is more of a homage to the original. I'd say comics fall under fanfic in my opinion, but it's too big a topic to cover everything here.

As to imagination, yea, tropes exist, stereotypes, etc and do get heavily recycled. It's not however, the same thing as writing a book titled "Legolas goes to Legoland". In your example, you would want to spend your time building the world, not reinventing the wheel... the same applies to fanfic in that they have these tropes etc at their disposal, so they don't need to write about other peoples characters.

I forgot Harry and Draco... but yea, that's my point right there, for you that one has become interlinked with the source, something I doubt JK had in mind when it was written.

I understand that most fanfic is written with a deep love for the source material (even the ones that contradict it only do so because it has it's hooks in them so badly they can't just let it go), and maybe that's an issue as well. Why do people feel the need to obsess on something so much that they are driven to write stories set in that make believe world?

All in all, I'm anti-fanfic but there's nothing that I would do to stop others from writing or enjoying it. I do think that the authors have the right to be pissed at people for doing it though, especially (or even only when) they then make it public.

In many ways it'd be like a company having the right to complain if someone took their exact product, switched one part out for a cheaper knockoff, changed the colour, then released it as their own. It's not common, but some fanficcers (no idea of the term there...) leverage 'their' work into profit, often indirectly through merchandise or Patreon type things.

I feel like it is a bit different from that last point because fanfiction isn't being sold and pretty solidly falls under fair use as long as they aren't profiting, like with amvs or fan parodies on YouTube this discussion also comes up with.

I'd respond to the timelessness of books that they really aren't. I actually had a very interesting conversation about this once around Shakespeare, and how the audience of his time may have radically different perceptions than ours due to time contexts. We shape issues around ourselves. A book that has a submessage about one thing at one time point may be interpreted to fit a different event going on later. The words tend to extend beyond covers more easily than I think some people are comfortable with, and I have to wonder if that may be another issue around fan works. People want to be in control, but anything involving the perceptions of other people in the mix is impossible to exert full control over. I think that might scare some people, and I can understand that.

For creativity, how do you feel about AUs? What if Bilbo never went with Gandalf? What if Sirius Black stayed the Potter's Secret Keeper? What if Zuko managed to capture Aang? What if Romeo and Juliet was set in the modern era? (Okay, that last one was actually published. :p)  Personally, I think it's the what if questions that draws me most to fanfiction. Writers will never have time to explore them all in their own work, after all, and there's a lot of ground to explore that brings up questions. And what about examining times in a character's life that never was presented? What was this one moment like when character X first realized they lost their parents? How did this character react when the first learned their parents were on the wrong side of the war? What happened the night they ran away? Those are ones I absolutely love, and are the small fragments writers don't always go back for when a series is done. And in these examples you very much would have to use an already created character.

As to why people would want to, I can only give my own answer. I had some really dark times in my life that certain books helped me through, and I gained a stronger than normal attachment to those characters. I simply didn't want to give them up, and I wanted to understand them deeper and through things the writers didn't have time to flesh out. It was an act of love and respect to how they helped me.

General Discussion / Re: Dungeons and Dragons
« on: June 28, 2019, 07:55:41 PM »
I have to say that I'd really love to watch a D&D session, based on what everyone is saying :D

I'm sure there are some near me, but I'd prefer to be with people I know (and I bet the ones around here wouldn't welcome watching strangers, hehe)

You should look up Critical Role. They're a group of voice actors who play and they're really good.


All the top contributors to global warming deserve the guillotine.

That's a controversial opinion?

Sadly, it seems so. Otherwise I'd think it would already have been done.

It could come down to medium as others have mentioned, however a TV spinoff still requires the original authors consent assuming it's still in copyright.

I'd say I was against it, partly because I think an author has the right to not want the characters they've often spent years building up portrayed a certain way. Look at it from a different perspective, if you had/have children etc, and you find out that someone is making stuff up about them, you'd be upset. People can bond with anything, including characters on a page (often the reason the fanfic exists in the first place). It's their creation, and they have the right to it.

When it comes to just writing in their world, it's the same thing but on a lesser level (I think I'd be more tolerant of that, but still has issues with creating lore that the author may not want - many do prequels or sequels or spinoffs of their own after all.

I think the biggest thing for me would be the lack of imagination. If you're going to write, use some. Everything is recycled, that's obvious to any reader, but to straight up hijack characters just feels lazy. When I read I often think fanfic things, ways the characters could have acted, things that could/should exist in the world (usually the technical stuff surrounding the magic systems), but I wouldn't then write that down and pass it off as my own.

Edit: I'll also add that over time, fanfic can become synonymous with the original work. The takeaway from the Harry Potter years of fanfic is often portrayed in popular culture as Harry and Ron get it on, which was written so much that it became a running joke (also it's super creepy when you remember they're children).

I think you bring up some interesting points but a few of them I would like to discuss on the opposite side of the argument.

I've heard people mention their writing in terms of fanfiction with the children analogy before, but if we're going to treat our stories and characters like children, don't we also have to come to terms with those children growing up? Like a book being published, children move out further than just their parents. Parents aren't the owners of their children, but the nurturers, and once those children become exposed to the world they take on a bigger role in it outside of home. They get hurt and they fall in love and they make friends and they change interests and make choices their parents may not always approve of. If you're not ready for that to happen to your child, which it will regardless if you want it to or not, are you ready to be a parent?

Art is not something that exists in a bubble, and writing is an art form. Once it comes into contact with an audience their perceptions will change it in ways you don't always intend. They will make memories with it and it will become a piece of their lives as well as in the life of its creator. That's one of the beautiful parts about art, I think. How it grows and touches other people. If someone doesn't want that they shouldn't expose it to the outside world in the first place, because as soon as that exposure happens it is no longer just a personal piece.

I would also like to argue that fanfiction can be just as creative as original works. Sometimes, it requires even more work. When I write original fiction I can do whatever I please. With fanfiction, when I write another persons character I have to take into account a lot of context that I can't just make up on my own. I have to study and contemplate and analyze. If I take a character who hasn't been fleshed out much in canon I have to create much of their background just like I would an original character.

I'd also like to compare this process to fanartists who do drawings and paintings since they were brought up earlier in this thread by Alex. Does anyone call them uncreative when they have references for poses? I'd also like to bring back a point about some people not having as big an issue with fanart as fanfiction. Don't people draw different representations that don't always match up as well? People draw characters in parings they weren't in originally. People race-bend and gender swap in drawings. I've seen a lot of Indian Harry and Black Hermione to make the caste feel more diverse even before Cursed Child. People make Alternate Universe comics. Which is also another point. What about comics? They're basically a hybrid of writing and drawing. Where would they fall?

The comic artists, like fanfiction writers, are telling a story that may not fit inside canon, but I've rarely if ever heard them brought into the discussion.

Edit: Also, I don't think I've ever heard about RonxHarry being a popular thing? Where did you see that around? I could see it happening, because there's always someone who will ship anything, but I wouldn't say I've noticed it having a big impact. The biggest noncanon Harry ships I've heard of are HarryxHermione and HarryxDraco, the later of which I'm really not a fan of but eh. I'm also not sure why you would assume that that ship would have to happen when they're children. There's a lot of stories for after Hogwarts and with NextGen when characters are already fully grown. I'm also not sure why it would be creepier than the canon ships that also happened when they were minors. Actual sex scenes would be a different story, but that's not really what a requirement to have a ship. I myself don't like reading sex scenes period and I never write a ship with one.

I also was thinking about the lack of imagination thing some more. Where would real writing stand on that? Elves in the modern day got a lot from Tolkien, as did many other fantasy races. Should we all come up with our own races whenever we write a new book? That could get really tedious when you have other aspects of world-building you want to explore. :p

Fanfics will rarely get enough reads to,put a dent in any book sales, and like I said if it's not sent to the writer there's no weight to a plagiarism accusation because writers typically don't read fics of their own material. It's a fairly baseless fear to have.

I actually liked the Hobbit movies better than the book baring small parts.

I'm Christian, but I believe multiple dieties exist even though I don't worship them.

All the top contributors to global warming deserve the guillotine.

Anyone heard about how they're turning away supplies? Apparently people are trying to donate resources and the agents are leaving them or throwing them away.

Is Fan-Fic same as non cannon?

For example, the Thrawn Trilogy set in Star Wars universe is the best out there and even better than the movie books, but still non Cannon. I somehow don't see this as Fan-Fic.

I think fanfiction is too broad a category to classify. I'm very selective on which I read.

No, fanfiction can be canon compliant. For example, a story moment rewritten in another pov that wasn't in the books but still containing all canon events.

I think it's the writer's choice. It's their invention. If they don't like people playing with it, that's their right. Not a choice I'd agree with myself - or necessarily even respect if I did want to write fan-fic in it - but they're allowed to dislike it.

More to the point, I definitely respect not wanting to see it in case it mirrors an idea they've already got under development and don't want to hear calls of "PLAGIARISM!"

For the last part, that's most of the reason writers tend to ask fans not to send them fics even if they'll accept fan art. If it can't be proven that they read it, even if something has been publicly published online, then cries of plagiarism hold very little weight. I'm mostly thinking of authors who don't want it written at all, even if they'll never come across it. I can definitely understand some concerns. Certain cases of smut, for instance.

I hadn't considered adaptations and the like as fanfiction before, but you raise an interesting point. I think the change of media makes it easier for me to accept. But modern Arthurian stories, for example, aren't really fanfiction, in my opinion, because they're building on the existing real-world mythos of Arthur.  The same way that Paradise Lost isn't fanfiction of the Bible.
That's actually something a lot of fics do, and something I personally like myself. I'm writing a Harry Potter fanfiction now, for instance, that deals with the Founders era. It's a time period that was never written in the books, so I'm having to develop characters we have nothing but names and a few traits of. It would be considered original fiction in all ways except it exists an an already established universe with already written history to certain events taking place. I've also done it with missing moment expansions. For example Sirius Black's stay in Azkaban is something I've written about, which let me practice flashing out aspects of the character he wouldn't have shown to Harry as the books only Pov character.

This used to be a more controversial topic than it is today, I'm told, but I still know there's a good handful of writers, even some that are very popular, who don't like the thought of people writing in their worlds or with their characters. Personally, Fanfic is one of the things that got me into writing spaces. I think it's a great way to learn, and even after learning a great way to meet other people and grow further. If someone were to ever write a fic off a story I wrote myself I think I'd be incredibly flattered. It stumps me a bit how people can be adverse to fics when we have hundreds of examples of fics that have been professionally published. Anything that is written based off previous lore or mythology is a fic, for example. Every Robin Hood movie, every King Arthur spinoff, and every new Sherlock TV show is a published fanfiction, but they don't get near the amount of disdain.

General Discussion / Re: Dungeons and Dragons
« on: June 25, 2019, 04:16:42 AM »
Didn't Erikson write his Malazan story based on D&D games he played with ICE?


I love RPGs, but D&D and all that are one of my least favoured takes.

This said - I believe Gary Gygax holds the greatest influence on the modern day fantasy genre of anyone other than maybe Tolkien.

Is there a reason why? I find the current D&D edition easiest to get others into and haven't had the time to learn a new system myself, although I have a Pathfinder book.

General Discussion / Dungeons and Dragons
« on: June 23, 2019, 04:42:21 PM »
Hey, been a while since I've been on here. I was curious how many people on these forms play D&D. I've heard a lot of big name fantasy writers have gotten inspiration from the game, and I'm Dungeon Master for a few campaigns myself. I've noticed it has really helped me improve with my story telling skills, and I was wondering how others think playing Dungeons and Dragons, or other tabletop roleplaying games, might have impacted them in their own writing.  :)

Writers' Corner / Re: Alternatives to Twitter, for Writers?
« on: November 16, 2017, 09:58:06 PM »
I've seen writers on Tumblr, but it's a h***site of discourse, so that might be a pretty big strike against it...and yet I stay on it. *shrug*

Writers' Corner / Re: Swords!
« on: November 16, 2017, 12:38:48 AM »
If you are traveling and not at war Armour tends to be kept at a minimum. Likewise you don't lug the armoury round with you what you if you can help it a good knife is always an essential though a hatchet will chop you firewood and help you fight off casual attackers a bow may get you meat on the hoof and make you a risk at range to those intending you harm. A sword has no other purpose than to signify you have wealth, status and martial prowess.

What if you know someone's after you? I feel like it still might be easier to carry than a long spear. Would a rapier be easier to carry than a short sword? Cause I'm going to be honest at this point. I really like dual wielding. And I could just say screw it and do it anyway, but this discussion is giving me ideas. XD

Writers' Corner / Re: Swords!
« on: November 15, 2017, 11:19:25 PM »
ShadowKat678 can you tell us a little more about your world and characters? Is the setting influenced by any historical period? Do they have to carry their own gear? Is the terrain hospitable?
Are they in an army or at war? I probably have some video of charging round on horses in c16th gear. I am not sure how useful or relevant it will be?


I put a link to my two page story (very rough) plot summary in a critique thread for help with thinking up hooks and other smaller summaries. I can put it up here, and if that's an issue I can edit it out.

I'm honestly deciding where the first terrain will be. The world is Nimrith, and basically a mirror to ours, but with magic. So it has cultures and terrain that's kinda like ours, but influenced by the environmental nature of Nimrith. I'm going to be doing some research to try and take some influences, but so far I haven't gotten any hard specifics yet.

Time works differently, and most creatures live a lot longer, so that might affect the level of those she fights who actually have training. But, and you'll see why in the story description as I'm trying not to make this too long, she's been very specifically trained to kill as a single fighter instead of working in a team or army, so she'd probably have a style that would take advantage of that.

I think the first book it'll either be forest, jungle, or some other area with a lot of cover and plant life. She's probably had some city fighting. The second book she'll be in the desert a bit, so that'll be a very different environment to adapt to. Third I'm not sure, but the ending scene I've already planned and it'll be on a type of highland plain by the sea unless it's changed.

She does carry her own gear, but while magic is harder to get, she has some handy but simple, practical items to help out due to what's she's been finding herself doing.

Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 21