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Messages - Raptori

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[NOV 2016] 1750 / Re: [NOV 2016] - 1750 - Voting Thread
« on: December 31, 2016, 12:33:27 PM »

Monthly Writing Contest / Re: Contest Anthology 2016
« on: December 29, 2016, 09:20:31 PM »
Happy for ours to be included, and we'd love to make the cover!  :P

Fantasy Book & Author Discussion / Re: What are you currently reading?
« on: December 12, 2016, 05:33:13 PM »
Already liking The Thief by Megan Whalen Turner. The characters are fun and the description is well done.
I had this on my Kindle wishlist, after it was recommended here, and it disappeared from the UK kindle store a few weeks ago, along with the rest of the series. I have no idea why.
Fifth book is due out early next year, and they're re-doing all the covers and stuff for the older ones. Presume they're reformatting the ebooks too!

Finally went yesterday, found it pretty disappointing.

From a plot perspective it felt like two separate films crammed together - "Newt recovers his fantastical creatures" and "investigate the dark mysterious force lurking in the city" - but not in a good way. Both could have been great stories on their own, but they just didn't mesh in any real way. The creature sequences ended up feeling cringeworthy, the other plot ended up feeling shallow and rushed. There were so many instances of "why didn't they just..." throughout. Niffler in jewellery store? Let's jump in and trash the place while trying to physically grab it, even though we could just twirl a wand and catch it using magic!  :-\

The characters were pretty uninspiring too. Thought Redmayne was pretty awful; no difference between this performance and any of several other films he's been in recently, and he never felt believable in the story - guess both of us just don't like him as an actor. The rest of the main characters were pretty bland as well. The supporting cast was ok, though Depp looked really out of place.

The setting was pretty good though, and the only thing that really shone was the animation.

Fantasy Book & Author Discussion / Re: Recommend me fun adventures
« on: December 06, 2016, 02:39:05 AM »
There's a couple of good movies like that. Indiana Jones, Star Wars, Pirates of the Caribbean. Isn't there anything like that as books?
Funny - every time I recommend Ketty Jay (which is a lot) that's exactly how I describe them! By far the most pure fun books around. Definitely worth checking out!

[DEC 2016] Dragons / Re: [DEC 2016] - Dragons! - Discussion Thread
« on: December 05, 2016, 11:32:47 PM »
Actually @m3mnoch the new tagging system displays a little popup if you type @ and then the first couple of letters of the user's name, so you can be sure you've got it right by doing that!  :P

I never needed to check gender for that. You're not allowing for demographics, thousands of straight white English-speaking males in the same country will be vastly different from each other and so far it never failed to surprise me.
I also don't click the profile button so I also don't know what they look like or any other of their preferences and there was never a book I read and automatically thought "This was written by a white or non-white."

Good both ways work for us, though.
You're being too literal; 99% of the time I don't take the author into account when I'm picking up a book. That doesn't mean I can't step back and look at the general trends in my reading, and notice things that seem curious, and might deserve some thought if I decide it matters to me.

Maybe they are simply not interested in those sub-genres. You can't create writers out of thin air to fill a magical quota.
Maybe! But we do not know that. You can't just wave your hand and speak for 50% of the population by saying they're not interested because they're just not interested.  ;)

Don't know why you are ignoring the information from and Gollancz we had. It was even from female editors, unless you also want to believe they're biased or everything that doesn't hold to a particular view has something going on.

Doesn't sound biased to me.
OK, so that's one of the possibilities ruled out. What about the others? There are more links in the chain, and clearly things aren't equal at some point.

The website with almost 4 millions cast to awards doesn't count towards a 90% female ratio Fantasy list, but to some a few random topics count to imply gender bias here? Hm, interesting  ::)
We're talking about gender bias in terms of representation within the genre's authorship, not in terms of critical and/or public acclaim. Awards are completely irrelevant to what we're actually talking about imo.

And what is a good representation for you? The Hugos? Too much politics from various sides, also paid which gates the vast majority of readers. Reddit voting? Has more than 100,000 subscribers, but if GR with 3,5 million (even if not all of them were to Fantasy) isn't valid...
None of the above. A good representation of the state of the genre would be statistics from somewhere that actually has a good overview of the market, like Amazon, or potentially GR reading and star-rating statistics (not the awards).

Regardless of the state of the genre overall, it's also possible to look for biases and trends within the small community here, and seek to address them. Kinda like Peat has been trying to do.  :P

Don't know what's your issue with the imbalance when it appears a lot of women aren't interested in writing in certain genres and sub-genres. You can't "deliberately publish more of them" (as you said back then) when they are not there.
Also, there are twice as many female authors in other genres as well.
From a purely selfish point of view, it's interesting to read books with different perspectives, different views on life, etc, and increased author diversity can only aid that. Sure, straight white English-speaking males can write great characters from outside their own experience, but why would you want that alone if you can encourage authentic voices from different backgrounds as well? I'd love to see more stories written by people from outside the English-language bubble, for example. Gender balance is a small part of that larger issue.

Yep, but we're not here to talk about other genres. I don't read much fiction outside SFF, so why would I care?!  :P

The whole issue Peat (and others have) is because the % of women recommendations are less than the males. That's the whole point of his data gathering and in his words, it's "skewed", "it's an issue", and etc. So what wouldn't be an issue or skewed? If it was complete parity or the opposite? Why?
Well, by definition, it'd be roughly similar to whatever the population demographics are. Something around 50/50 would mean those particular perspectives are being published in equal amounts. Even in an extremely equal system it'd fluctuate, and there's no hard point at which it suddenly becomes skewed (so your comment saying red alert at 51% male is over the top), but at the moment one half of the population supplies twice as many authorial voices as the other half does, so there's clearly something going on.

If someone can prove that it's due to female authors not being interested in fantasy, great - people who want more diverse stories would then have to think of ways to encourage female authors. If it's proven that they're not getting published due to bias in the publishing industry, you'd have to do something different there. And so on.

As is, we don't really know what's causing it, so people interested in diverse stories just do what they can, even if it's something very small like trying to recommend or read more female authors. Don't really understand why it's so contentious for some people!  :D

It would be actually cool if going for their books some here did take multiple factors into account and not gender as the major one.
Erm... is there anyone who doesn't?  :o

Again, there we have GR with a 90% female ratio, even being twice as less published. Some places have more females, other males. Don't know what's the big deal if here ends up having more males, or why the first thing it raises on some is a "gender issue".
Where on GR? The awards? One year in one award isn't a particularly good representation of the fantasy genre at large...  :P

Ok, I do agree to some extent that it's difficult to gather meaningful statistics (though at least Peat's trying!), and it's always good to challenge stuff like that if you feel it's necessary, but some of that is a bit off, Lanko.  :P

And saying "there is only % of women here and there", "it's male-centric" and "it's a bit of a skew" implies that if male authors are ahead, it's a problem, but if it was the other way around it would't be, for whatever reason.
50%-50% - Parity, great!
51%+ towards female authors - Great!
51%+ towards male authors - Hm, I think it's a bit male-centric in here, there's only a % of women in here and there might be an issue here, folks. Red alert!
These bits in particular. At best they're absolute straw-man argument, but I have no clue where you're getting that implication from. Care to point out where it's coming from? Bear in mind that, at a ~30% market share, that means there are twice as many male authors. There's a huge difference between what the other side is saying and what you're claiming they're saying, which really doesn't help your argument!

And then with the last option also comes the "go for the gender" when picking a book to bring more parity, which isn't far from quotas, as some correctly pointed out.
People will come say it's not what they meant or want, or no gender discrimination openly said, but it's what it comes down to, no matter how one dances around with the words used:

"I read 3 books. They were from male authors, better get 1 or 2 from females now."
*Walks intro library*
"Oh, good cover! What a nice story! Damn, the author is male!" *Dismisses it*
"Oh, good cover! What a nice theme! Damn, male again!" *Dismisses it*
"Oh, good cover! Nice concept! Oh, female! Sweet!"

And then instead of interest or story or theme, gender becomes the focus, whether was the intention or not.
So you're saying people don't have TBR piles, and are unable to take multiple factors into account? Everyone just has to go into a store or library and pick up books at random until they find one that appeals, and then they have to walk out with that one?

^ I know that's not what you actually meant to say; that's essentially what you're doing in your characterisation of the other side's stance.  ;)

Fantasy Book & Author Discussion / Re: Secondary World Steampunk
« on: December 04, 2016, 02:11:38 AM »
The Scorched Continent qualifies! Two books released so far: Steal the Sky and Break the Chains. I've only read the first book so far, and it was pretty good. Not sure it'd class as grimdark though, despite a couple of grim moments, but then again the same goes for Aeronaut's Windlass, Grace of Kings, and Ketty Jay...  :P

What I am saying is that I can remember my favorite books better than you can apparently.

But we aren't talking about favourites. We're talking about recommendations. I could rattle off my own list of favourites, and it would probably only be 5-10. But in the last year alone I read (checking GoodReads) 39 books that I gave four or five stars, and I would be happy to recommend any of those if they were appropriate to what someone was asking to hear about.
While that's true, cupiscent, when talking about recommendations favourites often do come into it. People rarely recommend a book that they didn't like when asked for a recommendation by someone else.
True, but most people like a ton of books which don't come to mind as "favourites". A lot of the time - especially when people ask for something specific - most people will be recommending something which isn't a favourite.

Can't speak for the others @Lanko, but I've been spending more time talking about books and making recommendations on a different forum instead of here!

Also, while thinking about this issue, I made a few changes to my bingo list. Example: for the "something somebody read for 2015 bingo" square for authors I've read before, I replaced The Lives of Tao by Wesley Chu with Vicious by VE Schwab. Lives of Tao looked interesting to a point, but it was maybe middling priority in my TBR. On the other hand, Vicious wasn't even on my list at all - I had read one book by Schwab (A Darker Shade of Magic) and thought it was mediocre, and didn't plan to read anything else by her. I finished Vicious the other day, and it turns out that it's probably the best book I've read this year (out of roughly 70 in total). The only reason I read it was this discussion.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying "we should all go read books by females just because they might be awesome", but that "talking about this kind of issue can actually lead people to books they enjoy which they might have otherwise ignored"!

[DEC 2016] Dragons / Re: [DEC 2016] - Dragons! - Discussion Thread
« on: December 03, 2016, 06:05:25 PM »
Does this have to be a new theme? As in can we take a existing fantasy book world and write our own fan submissions? Or maybe an alternate timeline story for an existing book and similar to that? As in just use the existing universe...but for a brand new story.
Hi, it needs to be original.
We have a month (usually February) where we do fanfic, but for the rest of the year it must be wour own worldbuilding.
Really? I thought since it wasn't stated in the rules it would be fine. Interesting!

What's Scott Lynch going through?
Death, divorce, and depression, essentially. There's a good interview with him about it here.

I'm not bothered with how long an author takes. I just read books already out by other authors and read their series instead


it's so weird to me when readers DEMAND an author finish a book.

um . . . stop being childish.  you guys aren't "entitled" to the work and you're just going to make the author cranky.  there's plenty of other stuff to read.  go read it.

Yeah for sure! Writers can take as long as they like to write something.

On the flip side though, the way they communicate with their fans is still important. Very few fans DEMAND anything, Rothfuss was complaining about anyone who has the nerve to ask him how his next book is coming along.

Everyone's really supportive of Scott Lynch for example, even though his books keep getting delayed, and that's entirely because people who care enough to wonder about the delay quickly find out what he's going through, and naturally offer support or at least don't feel snubbed. With Rothfuss, the perception is instead that he's just arrogant, and doesn't care about his fans whatsoever, since that's pretty much how he behaves. Naturally, that's going to lose him fans.  :)

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