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Re: Are taverns overused? I think you first have to think of purpose.  Social? Motel? Drinking?  Churches/Temples could take lodgers of their same faith, and provide a social setting.  Same with Guild houses.  A low-cost hostel would make sense where there is a lot of poor travelers (I don't think peasants did a lot, but you could have migrant workers or something).  A society could have developed where people liked to have visitors in their house, and might have "room to rent" signs along the road.  Boarding houses make sense.  But for drinking, whether you call it a pub, tavern, bar, house of ill repute, or whatever, they are the same all over.
September 15, 2012, 01:43:18 AM
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Re: If you could say ONE THING to a character you love/hate, what would you say?? To Generic Fantasy Character:
Next time you are bored, don't do something incredibly stupid just to cause some drama/action/death of hordes of innocents.
cheers,
Jeff

February 28, 2013, 05:04:19 AM
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Re: Curing Impotence chop off head of old wife and get a new young wife.

March 10, 2015, 02:11:39 AM
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Re: Scene & Chapter Length most scenes: 250 to 3000 words
most chapters 1500 to 7500 words.

some longer for each.

March 18, 2015, 02:10:55 AM
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Re: Wearing costume while writing hard to type while wearing gauntlets.  ;)

March 26, 2015, 10:05:09 PM
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Re: Limited 3rd person POV and detailed descriptions

One thing is that he seems to shift from omniscient to limited. Others have commented on lack of editing in his books.

that probably means you didn't realize it was omniscient until he did something very invasive.  I've gotten 3/4 through a novel before I realized the narrator was omniscient because he was not very invasive and was on the objective end of things.

Limited and omniscient are not mutually exclusive (though some older discussions of it make that distinction).

Limited involves a narrator who limits how many characters will have their thoughts or emotions directly revealed. Usually it is one character per unit of narration (sentence, paragraph, scene, chapter, whole novel - - it varies from work to work, but most are towards the end of that list).  Note: if the POV character could reasonably infer the thoughts or feelings of another character, the narrator is free to mention that.

Omniscient means the narrator reveals information that would not be available to the character at that moment (note, in first person, the narrator can reveal information that he didn't know at that time if it is a faux memoir, written after the events happened).

Invasive means the narrator interjects his own thoughts and feelings.

Subjective means the narrator does relate the thoughts and feelings of characters, while objective means the narrator only shows the characters' thoughts and feelings by their actions and words.

Classical 3rd person omniscient tends to be: subjective, invasive, and not limited.
It does not have to be any of those things.

And most of these distinctions are gradients rather than dichotomies (a narrator can be on the objective end of things, seldom going inside the head of character).



April 03, 2015, 06:53:29 AM
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Re: Scene & Chapter Length
It wasn't that long ago that the conventional wisdom was to write in third person omniscient in which the narrator could jump from head to head. Today, most fantasy authors have labeled that a major no-no.
I think that's grossly overstated. Even GRRM is writing a nearly limited flavor of third person omniscient.

Like most writing advice, it's based on the worst-case scenario: bad omniscient is more obvious than bad third limited, but they're equally bad.

If we never did anything that was a little bit hard, we wouldn't be very good writers, imo.

April 11, 2015, 07:14:01 AM
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Re: How to Avoid Scaring Away Male Readers - Too Much Touchy Feely Stuff (literally) IMO, the only reason to detail sexual encounters is if it reveals character or furthers the plot. Otherwise it's just for titillation.
If it doesn't reveal character or further the plot, I tend to fade to black as soon as the reader is sure sex is about to happen. I might fade back in to show a dialogue during the afterglow, but otherwise I just move ahead to the next scene.
If it is a continuing relationship, I might only allude to subsequent sexual encounters.

May 09, 2015, 05:03:00 AM
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Re: What's the problem with omniscient point of view? with the excerpts, it's too long to fully quote, so I list your comments below.


1. There are no quotation marks and no "he said to his conversation partner" or anything like that. Which makes it clearly first person.

2. Here the author is using senteces which, if the book were written in third person, could only be used in third person omniscient, but not in third person limited. He adresses the audience directly. I have seen plenty of first person stories in which the narrator does not do that the text is purely limited to "I thought..." and "I did".
Since first person past tense implies that the events of the story have already passed and the narrator had an indetermined amount of time to reflect on them and get additional information on things he did not know at the time of the events, this mode always omnicient rather than limited. Unless there is perhaps some really weird and unusual twist to the whole story.


3. Here it seems as if the narrator adresses the audience, but actually this is information which Harry, as the focus character, already has. The reader does not know who Peeves is, so the narrator explains it. But Harry has met Peeves before and we are merely being told knowledge that comes from Harrys head, not from the head of the narrator. There could possibly be some omniscient parts in the book or the series, but this sample I read appears to be entirely within the boundries of third person limited.
1. Earlier pieces have given the context - - this is Kvothe telling the story to the other two guys, so it's all DIALOGUE. Clearly it's a story within a story, so it's complicated, and we can't really believe that all of it is oral because it's so detailed and long, but that's how Rothfuss presented it.

2. As above: It's DIALOGUE!

3. I really don't know why you picked that excerpt, because it's much more typical of 3rd omni than third limited. But, you did motivate me to make the following statement:

You often cannot tell what type of narrator the writer has used by a short excerpt.  If the work tends toward the objective end of the spectrum, it can take many pages to be sure.

For example:
John walked to the couch and sat.

Was that written in first, second, or third? If third, was it limited, omniscient, or objective? It's impossible to know.

However, it was clear from page one of Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone that it was third omni (read it if you don't believe me).  You can't make that distinction for every sentence or even paragraph, but Rowling interjects very omniscient stuff every once in a while. In fact, I'd suggest her as a model of how to do omniscient, at least the last few of the H.P. novels.

May 18, 2015, 11:56:35 PM
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Re: What's the problem with omniscient point of view? There are two things that tend to irritate when done badly in omniscient:
1) going inside the head of a different character without proper signposting.
2) invasive narration that pulls the reader out of the story. Sometimes this can be done to good effect in humor (doug adams, terry pratchett), but it should be done seldom in a more serious work.  I tend to only make many value judgements that come from the narrator before or after the action of a scene.

May 22, 2015, 07:11:06 AM
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