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Author Topic: Tor permanent close to short fiction  (Read 2772 times)

Offline Nora

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Tor permanent close to short fiction
« on: December 21, 2015, 03:12:14 PM »
Grievous news people!

If you've got something to show off, I think that now is the time!

http://www.tor.com/2015/12/21/tor-com-is-closed-to-short-fiction-submissions/
"She will need coffee soon, or molecular degeneration will set in. Her French phrasing will take over even more strongly, and soon she will dissolve into a puddle of alienation and Kierkegaardian despair."  ~ Jmack

Wishy washy lyricism and maudlin unrequited love are my specialty - so said Lady_Ty

Offline CameronJohnston

Re: Tor permanent close to short fiction
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2015, 04:10:02 PM »
I'm not terribly surprised to be honest, they pay so much and have such a large pool of professional writers providing stories for them that it must feel like a massive time-sink to wade through the slush. They've struggled for years to get through the sheer amount of stories they get submitted in any sort of timely fashion.

As somebody with a story currently submitted to them, feels like I tried my luck just in time.
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Offline m3mnoch

Re: Tor permanent close to short fiction
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2015, 04:42:03 PM »
hrm.

interesting.  i hadn't really thought of submitting anything in the near future, but this makes me want to try.  so, i wandered over to their submission guidelines and it sparked a question.

http://www.tor.com/submissions-guidelines/#Fiction%20Submission%20Guidelines

Quote
Although we employ common sense in dealing with edge cases (translations, significant expansions, etc.), “original” means “not previously published.”

does entering our monthly writing contest qualify as "previously published"?

Offline OhTheSqualor

Re: Tor permanent close to short fiction
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2015, 04:51:03 PM »
As someone hoping to do some short fiction work in a 3-6 month time frame, this is a bummer.  I can understand the reasoning.
Oh well.

Chris
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Offline Nora

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Re: Tor permanent close to short fiction
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2015, 10:28:19 PM »
hrm.

interesting.  i hadn't really thought of submitting anything in the near future, but this makes me want to try.  so, i wandered over to their submission guidelines and it sparked a question.

http://www.tor.com/submissions-guidelines/#Fiction%20Submission%20Guidelines

Quote
Although we employ common sense in dealing with edge cases (translations, significant expansions, etc.), “original” means “not previously published.”

does entering our monthly writing contest qualify as "previously published"?

I wonder as well. I think it's fine so long as it isn't published on the main website. It's like, what if you worked on your story in your online writing group? That shouldn't count.
More problematic if your story won the contest, since you're meant to get published on the website. I assume though, that FF wouldn't be too reluctant to give a link to Tor, instead of publishing themselves. Having forum members who get published on tor.com can't be bad.

Just beware because often our short stories aren't what tor.com looks for. Saying this not only as someone who submitted, but as a weekly reader of their stories. Try tend to be over 2000 words easily, much more character driven, and focusing on heavier emotions and moral concepts than the ones we brush on in our very short form.
It's more high brow literary.
Which is why I'm waiting (any day now!) for my own rejection letter  ;D I did my best back then but I didn't know their style that much then.
I'm just wishing for a personal rejection at that point.
"She will need coffee soon, or molecular degeneration will set in. Her French phrasing will take over even more strongly, and soon she will dissolve into a puddle of alienation and Kierkegaardian despair."  ~ Jmack

Wishy washy lyricism and maudlin unrequited love are my specialty - so said Lady_Ty

Offline tebakutis

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Re: Tor permanent close to short fiction
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2015, 12:24:28 AM »
hrm.

interesting.  i hadn't really thought of submitting anything in the near future, but this makes me want to try.  so, i wandered over to their submission guidelines and it sparked a question.

http://www.tor.com/submissions-guidelines/#Fiction%20Submission%20Guidelines

Quote
Although we employ common sense in dealing with edge cases (translations, significant expansions, etc.), “original” means “not previously published.”

does entering our monthly writing contest qualify as "previously published"?

I wonder as well. I think it's fine so long as it isn't published on the main website. It's like, what if you worked on your story in your online writing group? That shouldn't count.
More problematic if your story won the contest, since you're meant to get published on the website. I assume though, that FF wouldn't be too reluctant to give a link to Tor, instead of publishing themselves. Having forum members who get published on tor.com can't be bad.

From what I understand of how publishing rights work, any story entered in the Fantasy-Faction writing contest DOES count as publication (in this case, self-pub) because it can be found via Google. So if you really liked a story you entered here, and tried to submit it somewhere else, you certainly could, but if you pitch it as "previously unpublished" it could get you in trouble. I actually enjoy the writing contest so much I've started publishing my stories on my own blog, just for the fun of it, since I know they aren't publishable anywhere else except as a reprint.

Writer's groups, in general, are an exception, IF they are password protected. So if you're posting stuff to the F-F writing group, for example, I think you're fine, because the only way you can see that material is if you are logged in to the F-F forums and have been given special permission to view the Writer's Group sub-forum. Many online writer's groups use this, and thus avoid work posted there counting as "published".

But, since the main F-F forums are Google searchable, and the F-F writing contests are visible to everyone, any story you post there, whether it wins the contest or not, would likely be arguably "published". If your story wins the contest and gets published on the main site, of course, it's definitely published.

Of course, let's say your 1,500 word experiment inspires a longer story ... you take it and expand it, or make it one scene of a longer story, or rewrite it with the same idea. That would count as a new story, and you could attempt to sell first publication rights to that without issue.

Internet publication rights are always a bit iffy, but my belief is that anything submitted to a F-F Writing Contest, whether it wins or not, will be considered published.
T. Eric Bakutis: 2014 Compton Crook Finalist and author of Tales of the Five Provinces

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Offline m3mnoch

Re: Tor permanent close to short fiction
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2015, 12:43:07 AM »
I wonder as well. I think it's fine so long as it isn't published on the main website. It's like, what if you worked on your story in your online writing group? That shouldn't count.

word.  i can get behind this.


More problematic if your story won the contest, since you're meant to get published on the website. I assume though, that FF wouldn't be too reluctant to give a link to Tor, instead of publishing themselves. Having forum members who get published on tor.com can't be bad.

/whew

luckily, i'm in no danger of that.  heh.


Just beware because often our short stories aren't what tor.com looks for. Saying this not only as someone who submitted, but as a weekly reader of their stories. Try tend to be over 2000 words easily, much more character driven, and focusing on heavier emotions and moral concepts than the ones we brush on in our very short form.
It's more high brow literary.

ah.  thanks for the tip.  'preciate it.


Which is why I'm waiting (any day now!) for my own rejection letter  ;D I did my best back then but I didn't know their style that much then.
I'm just wishing for a personal rejection at that point.

good luck!

Offline m3mnoch

Re: Tor permanent close to short fiction
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2015, 12:51:42 AM »
Writer's groups, in general, are an exception, IF they are password protected. So if you're posting stuff to the F-F writing group, for example, I think you're fine, because the only way you can see that material is if you are logged in to the F-F forums and have been given special permission to view the Writer's Group sub-forum. Many online writer's groups use this, and thus avoid work posted there counting as "published".

But, since the main F-F forums are Google searchable, and the F-F writing contests are visible to everyone, any story you post there, whether it wins the contest or not, would likely be arguably "published". If your story wins the contest and gets published on the main site, of course, it's definitely published.

hrm.  i just did some googling.

looks like the contests are wide open, but the 'work to be critiqued' board isn't.

for what it's worth.


Offline Nora

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Re: Tor permanent close to short fiction
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2015, 01:08:01 AM »
hrm.

interesting.  i hadn't really thought of submitting anything in the near future, but this makes me want to try.  so, i wandered over to their submission guidelines and it sparked a question.

http://www.tor.com/submissions-guidelines/#Fiction%20Submission%20Guidelines

Quote
Although we employ common sense in dealing with edge cases (translations, significant expansions, etc.), “original” means “not previously published.”

does entering our monthly writing contest qualify as "previously published"?

I wonder as well. I think it's fine so long as it isn't published on the main website. It's like, what if you worked on your story in your online writing group? That shouldn't count.
More problematic if your story won the contest, since you're meant to get published on the website. I assume though, that FF wouldn't be too reluctant to give a link to Tor, instead of publishing themselves. Having forum members who get published on tor.com can't be bad.

From what I understand of how publishing rights work, any story entered in the Fantasy-Faction writing contest DOES count as publication (in this case, self-pub) because it can be found via Google. So if you really liked a story you entered here, and tried to submit it somewhere else, you certainly could, but if you pitch it as "previously unpublished" it could get you in trouble. I actually enjoy the writing contest so much I've started publishing my stories on my own blog, just for the fun of it, since I know they aren't publishable anywhere else except as a reprint.

Writer's groups, in general, are an exception, IF they are password protected. So if you're posting stuff to the F-F writing group, for example, I think you're fine, because the only way you can see that material is if you are logged in to the F-F forums and have been given special permission to view the Writer's Group sub-forum. Many online writer's groups use this, and thus avoid work posted there counting as "published".

But, since the main F-F forums are Google searchable, and the F-F writing contests are visible to everyone, any story you post there, whether it wins the contest or not, would likely be arguably "published". If your story wins the contest and gets published on the main site, of course, it's definitely published.

Of course, let's say your 1,500 word experiment inspires a longer story ... you take it and expand it, or make it one scene of a longer story, or rewrite it with the same idea. That would count as a new story, and you could attempt to sell first publication rights to that without issue.

Internet publication rights are always a bit iffy, but my belief is that anything submitted to a F-F Writing Contest, whether it wins or not, will be considered published.

While I agree in principle, I've done some googling, and unless they're much more skilled - and intense at chasing you down - the stories would be hard to find, even using certain key words to help.
I'm sure you could beg for ignorance, but more importantly, if you get published by tor.com, it'll take long enough to process your story to their website for you to ask if your story could be removed.
I guess it sounds a bit rude, but then again when you enter the FF contest, the rules never state anything about writing rights, and the website publication is free and non-contractual (so far as I know).

But in general your point merges with mine anyway : a rework would always be ideal, since I haven't really ever read anything in our short form contest that matches what is published on tor.com.
They're more literary and usually between 2 and 5k words stories or longer. They're horribly picky so it's worth doing a bigger effort for your sub to them.
"She will need coffee soon, or molecular degeneration will set in. Her French phrasing will take over even more strongly, and soon she will dissolve into a puddle of alienation and Kierkegaardian despair."  ~ Jmack

Wishy washy lyricism and maudlin unrequited love are my specialty - so said Lady_Ty

Offline jefGoelz

Re: Tor permanent close to short fiction
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2015, 01:56:08 AM »
Sigh.
Another market bites the dust. It's not clear from that article whether novellas/novelettes are also going to be closed or not.

I submitted one story to them and got nice comments along with a rejection. I had hoped I'd get a story accepted there.

Guess I need to make friends with one of their editors.

Offline m3mnoch

Re: Tor permanent close to short fiction
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2015, 01:56:19 AM »
you know what?  i think we may be okay.

usually, when looking for plagiarism or specific text, you can just quote-google it.

https://www.google.com.ar/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=%22Sap+swelled+and+snapped+limbs+as+a+harsh%2C+wintry+wind+sheared+through+the+treetops%22

when i do that, the only thing that shows up is the 'under construction' thread.  the main one doesn't pop.  i wasn't paying super-attention to which specific thread popped up when i googled earlier.

so, i think we're good if we're going by "showing up in the google means published" rationale -- nora's story length qualifier, of course, is still in place.

Offline Nora

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Re: Tor permanent close to short fiction
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2015, 02:38:36 AM »
I found my story from last month. But then again I'm really not sure they make such a big swipe. And if they do, and find it, then we're screwed, that's all  :D
"She will need coffee soon, or molecular degeneration will set in. Her French phrasing will take over even more strongly, and soon she will dissolve into a puddle of alienation and Kierkegaardian despair."  ~ Jmack

Wishy washy lyricism and maudlin unrequited love are my specialty - so said Lady_Ty

Offline jefGoelz

Re: Tor permanent close to short fiction
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2015, 07:52:20 AM »
Writer's groups, in general, are an exception, IF they are password protected. So if you're posting stuff to the F-F writing group, for example, I think you're fine, because the only way you can see that material is if you are logged in to the F-F forums and have been given special permission to view the Writer's Group sub-forum. Many online writer's groups use this, and thus avoid work posted there counting as "published".

But, since the main F-F forums are Google searchable, and the F-F writing contests are visible to everyone, any story you post there, whether it wins the contest or not, would likely be arguably "published". If your story wins the contest and gets published on the main site, of course, it's definitely published.

hrm.  i just did some googling.

looks like the contests are wide open, but the 'work to be critiqued' board isn't.

for what it's worth.
I strongly suggest that someone with a dog in this fight ask the powers that be to restrict access to the contest page.
It would be a shame if you have a great story, but can't send it to a quality magazine.

Offline jefGoelz

Re: Tor permanent close to short fiction
« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2015, 07:56:11 AM »
I found my story from last month. But then again I'm really not sure they make such a big swipe. And if they do, and find it, then we're screwed, that's all  :D

That's not the problem. The problem is you are conducting fraud if you sign a contract which involves your first publication rights.

So, if you want to be a good citizen you tell them (sometime before they send a contract). Of course, a magazine might not care if they don't have first rights under this situation, but why give them them a reason to say "no?"

Offline xiagan

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Re: Tor permanent close to short fiction
« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2015, 08:38:19 AM »
@tebakutis is right. If you post your story in the writing contest (or your blog) it counts as published.
I'm sure I posted this somewhere, but can't find it at the moment.
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