March 25, 2019, 04:02:21 AM

Poll

Should contest winners be ineligible to win the next one or two contests?

Yes, two months is fair
0 (0%)
Yes, but one month is enough
1 (5.6%)
No, there is no reason to change the rules like this
15 (83.3%)
I don't care
2 (11.1%)

Total Members Voted: 18

Voting closed: October 20, 2016, 01:09:22 PM

Author Topic: Should a contest winner be ineligible to win the next contest(s)?  (Read 10260 times)

Offline Nora

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Re: Should a contest winner be ineligible to win the next contest(s)?
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2016, 04:24:28 PM »
Quote
4) eligible for voting, just not winning -- so, what if we kept all the entries, everyone could vote for whatever they wanted, but we just ignore the previous month's winner if they're in the first spot?

this has a couple effects:  a) it allows the top-vote-getter inner kudos even if they don't technically get the win and b) doesn't artificially inflate "down ballot" stories because our voting biases typically take a vote away from a popular writer and give it to a story we don't technically like more.

That's what I thought would be implemented, and what I said I'd dislike. If I saw myself winning a contest because the guy/gal with most votes gets recognized but had already won, I'd feel like a placeholder and be disappointed with my win. It'd be worst because I'd KNOW that I'm not the favourite story.

Quote
5) incentivizing the rest of the board to vote -- what if we offered coins to voters?  what if we bumped the member's post count for voting?  what if, for every contest you voted in, you were entered in a drawing for a book to be given away once a quarter?

even crazier?  what if all of that happened only if you picked the winner?

game theory insanity!
This is a much better idea, IMO, just not the part about getting bonuses only if you get the winner. Because then people would be pushed to try and think "what the others will like", rather than "what I like", however unpopular it might be. A simple incentive to vote could do good though!
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Offline Eclipse

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Re: Should a contest winner be ineligible to win the next contest(s)?
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2016, 04:38:20 PM »
I think that such a rule would demean the value of a win. (Even more so if there was a bonus entry that was clearly way better than the winning entry.) So, a firm 'no' from me.


Nah.

Although it would be intriguing to see if there was any change if every story was posted anonymously.

It be fun but we would all know Arcane and Nora entries ;-)
Please tell me what gives my stories away, so I can change it.  :)
(Unless it's because I'm almost always last or second to last to submit, in which case I'm probably not going to change it.  ;D )

My comments were lighthearted and not to offend either of you

I can tell Nora's because it be one of the darkest tale amongst all the light ones, a gem of darkness also if it got a flesh eater that just confirms it :-)

I think I might have mistaken you for someone else there's a writer here who did a lot of great comedic tales amongst more of the serious themes.

« Last Edit: September 20, 2016, 04:42:38 PM by Eclipse »
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Offline ArcaneArtsVelho

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Re: Should a contest winner be ineligible to win the next contest(s)?
« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2016, 05:04:37 PM »
I think I might have mistaken you for someone else there's a writer here who did a lot of great comedic tales amongst more of the serious themes.
Certainly not me then.  ;) ;D

But seriously, I did suspect that you might have meant Rukaio; after all, his RPG character was called Arcane.
Everything I wrote above is pure conjecture. I don't know what I'm talking about.

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Offline Peat

Re: Should a contest winner be ineligible to win the next contest(s)?
« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2016, 05:20:43 PM »
In fairness, just because most of the regulars want to swing at the best, doesn't mean there isn't a problem.

For me... well, I don't enter the contests. I keep meaning to but 1500 words is too much for me unless I really love the idea. But when I enter, its to enjoy writing and learn what I can afterwards. I love winning, but that's secondary, and only means something if I'm beating the best.

Incentives for competing and voting could be an idea. I like that one.

Offline m3mnoch

Re: Should a contest winner be ineligible to win the next contest(s)?
« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2016, 05:29:24 PM »
Quote
4) eligible for voting, just not winning -- so, what if we kept all the entries, everyone could vote for whatever they wanted, but we just ignore the previous month's winner if they're in the first spot?

this has a couple effects:  a) it allows the top-vote-getter inner kudos even if they don't technically get the win and b) doesn't artificially inflate "down ballot" stories because our voting biases typically take a vote away from a popular writer and give it to a story we don't technically like more.

That's what I thought would be implemented, and what I said I'd dislike. If I saw myself winning a contest because the guy/gal with most votes gets recognized but had already won, I'd feel like a placeholder and be disappointed with my win. It'd be worst because I'd KNOW that I'm not the favourite story.

yeah.  the initial proposal was skipping the voting step altogether for winners.

and, i'm with you for this one making me sad if i "won".  in fact, i almost called it the "pity winner" option.  heh.


Quote
5) incentivizing the rest of the board to vote -- what if we offered coins to voters?  what if we bumped the member's post count for voting?  what if, for every contest you voted in, you were entered in a drawing for a book to be given away once a quarter?

even crazier?  what if all of that happened only if you picked the winner?

game theory insanity!
This is a much better idea, IMO, just not the part about getting bonuses only if you get the winner. Because then people would be pushed to try and think "what the others will like", rather than "what I like", however unpopular it might be. A simple incentive to vote could do good though!

right?!  wouldn't that be fun?

i don't think we want to decouple "incentive" from "only if you pick the winner" tho.  otherwise, folks will just swing by, vote for the first three in the list without reading anything, and collect their payment.

but, you hit the nail on the head as to why i added the winner-picking option.  we're such a diverse group of tastes, that it substantially flattens our votes.  voting for something that is "the most mainstream" would probably consolidate them a bunch more.

that being said, it would also disincentivize some of the cooler poems and experimental stuff we do.

*shrug*

maybe that's the added twist on each contest we're looking for -- a second-order property:  the currently implemented topic AND the addition of audience.

again, like an all-anonymous month, that's something we can just try out for fun one month.

Offline tebakutis

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Re: Should a contest winner be ineligible to win the next contest(s)?
« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2016, 06:01:27 PM »
In fairness, just because most of the regulars want to swing at the best, doesn't mean there isn't a problem.

For me... well, I don't enter the contests. I keep meaning to but 1500 words is too much for me unless I really love the idea. But when I enter, its to enjoy writing and learn what I can afterwards. I love winning, but that's secondary, and only means something if I'm beating the best.

Well, I thought it might be an issue, but given what most everyone is saying, it doesn't seem to be. :)

To give some background, I started thinking about this a few months back, when a couple of new entrants to the contest expressed some trepidation about entering. I want to say it was when we were jokingly throwing around the "God Emperor of the Writing Contest" title, but I think it was also a case where some new posters specifically asked about how often new people win, because we'd done some math about multiple winners.

Personally, I don't think there's any bias toward regulars (I always vote for what I feel are the best stories, despite how difficult you awesome authors make it to decide, and I feel like pretty much all of you do the same) but I was more worried about the *appearance* of an advantage. As everyone knows, sometimes you don't actually need to have a problem ... you just need to suggest that there might be a problem, and people will react accordingly. However, judging from the points everyone has made on this thread, it seems like putting a "cooldown" on winning would do more harm than good.

I think the best solution is to just take every opportunity we can to encourage newbies to enter again (I usually try to drop the authors of the stories I vote for a PM, to let them know how much I enjoyed what they wrote) and just nip those worries in the bud whenever they come up.

Also, as I told Xiagan, I think our monthly contests are about my favorite thing ever. I have written *so* many stories I would never have written as a result of our themes (really? A pirate story?) and as flattering as it is the times I have won (thank you!) just the process itself feels like its own reward.

Offline m3mnoch

Re: Should a contest winner be ineligible to win the next contest(s)?
« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2016, 06:24:55 PM »
Also, as I told Xiagan, I think our monthly contests are about my favorite thing ever. I have written *so* many stories I would never have written as a result of our themes (really? A pirate story?) and as flattering as it is the times I have won (thank you!) just the process itself feels like its own reward.

this cannot be overstated.

themes outside your comfort zone, regimented monthly practice, visibility into other interpretations, a safe place to stretch techniques, social proof to keep you powering on -- if you're a writer on these forums and not submitting entries (*cough* peat *cough*), you're missing out on some amazing development.

Offline Lanko

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Re: Should a contest winner be ineligible to win the next contest(s)?
« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2016, 08:00:17 PM »
Nah.

Although it would be intriguing to see if there was any change if every story was posted anonymously.

Agreed, and this is part of the reason why m3m is a rockstar and makes a version of the kindle e-reader with titles only so that you can't tell who submitted each story.

Haha, I also get this version. Sometimes it's not surprising to see who wrote the ones I voted for, but sometimes it's a total surprise.

Also, as I told Xiagan, I think our monthly contests are about my favorite thing ever. I have written *so* many stories I would never have written as a result of our themes (really? A pirate story?) and as flattering as it is the times I have won (thank you!) just the process itself feels like its own reward.

this cannot be overstated.

themes outside your comfort zone, regimented monthly practice, visibility into other interpretations, a safe place to stretch techniques, social proof to keep you powering on -- if you're a writer on these forums and not submitting entries (*cough* peat and Raptori *cough*), you're missing out on some amazing development.

Edited.
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Offline Raptori

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Re: Should a contest winner be ineligible to win the next contest(s)?
« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2016, 09:01:44 PM »
Haha, I also get this version. Sometimes it's not surprising to see who wrote the ones I voted for, but sometimes it's a total surprise.
Only minor niggle with the ebooks is that formatting often doesn't get transferred. Minor thing really, but it can have a noticeable effect if you notice details a lot!

Also, as I told Xiagan, I think our monthly contests are about my favorite thing ever. I have written *so* many stories I would never have written as a result of our themes (really? A pirate story?) and as flattering as it is the times I have won (thank you!) just the process itself feels like its own reward.

this cannot be overstated.

themes outside your comfort zone, regimented monthly practice, visibility into other interpretations, a safe place to stretch techniques, social proof to keep you powering on -- if you're a writer on these forums and not submitting entries (*cough* peat and Raptori *cough*), you're missing out on some amazing development.

Edited.
::)
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Offline Lanko

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Re: Should a contest winner be ineligible to win the next contest(s)?
« Reply #24 on: September 20, 2016, 09:28:55 PM »
Haha, I also get this version. Sometimes it's not surprising to see who wrote the ones I voted for, but sometimes it's a total surprise.
Only minor niggle with the ebooks is that formatting often doesn't get transferred. Minor thing really, but it can have a noticeable effect if you notice details a lot!

Yes, you have to format again using the forum tools. That happened in some of my earlier entries...actually, it happened in the Conan story too... I forgot to format again a phrase in German to italics...

Another problem I couldn't solve is when I wanted to jump a paragraph to show passage of time or a switch in POV. I ended up using an asterisk to do it, but now that I think about it, I wonder if jumping two paragraphs would have that effect when converted to e-book.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2016, 09:44:13 PM by Lanko »
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Offline Nora

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Re: Should a contest winner be ineligible to win the next contest(s)?
« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2016, 10:44:09 PM »
In fairness, just because most of the regulars want to swing at the best, doesn't mean there isn't a problem.

For me... well, I don't enter the contests. I keep meaning to but 1500 words is too much for me unless I really love the idea. But when I enter, its to enjoy writing and learn what I can afterwards. I love winning, but that's secondary, and only means something if I'm beating the best.

Incentives for competing and voting could be an idea. I like that one.

Peat, you do realise that the contest is 500 prose words minimum right? So you can totally submit 600 words if that's good enough for you!

M3m, how about participating as an incentive? Because shame and social pressure sorts of insure that writers vote. It'd avoid random voting (though would our sweet members be such jackasses as that??)
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Offline m3mnoch

Re: Should a contest winner be ineligible to win the next contest(s)?
« Reply #26 on: September 20, 2016, 11:56:57 PM »
M3m, how about participating as an incentive? Because shame and social pressure sorts of insure that writers vote. It'd avoid random voting (though would our sweet members be such jackasses as that??)

oh, for sure.  if folks write stories, i'm sure they've got enough equity in the contest that they'll vote to the best of their abilities.  there's a bit of reciprocity there, too, right?  "i'm going to spend the time to consider your story in-full.  i expect you to do the same for mine."

and reading-only members don't necessarily need to be jackasses to shortcut a vote.  there are often a ton of words to read and, i'm sure our members are busy, and i'm sure someone somewhere might just skim and vote by titles or some such.  not purposefully messing with the results, but not caring enough since they don't have a vested interest in correctly uncovering a winner.  so, not purposely careless.  just not as thorough.

Offline Peat

Re: Should a contest winner be ineligible to win the next contest(s)?
« Reply #27 on: September 21, 2016, 06:35:47 AM »
Also, as I told Xiagan, I think our monthly contests are about my favorite thing ever. I have written *so* many stories I would never have written as a result of our themes (really? A pirate story?) and as flattering as it is the times I have won (thank you!) just the process itself feels like its own reward.

this cannot be overstated.

themes outside your comfort zone, regimented monthly practice, visibility into other interpretations, a safe place to stretch techniques, social proof to keep you powering on -- if you're a writer on these forums and not submitting entries (*cough* peat *cough*), you're missing out on some amazing development.

Alas, shameless hussie that I am, I'm not missing out as I do this on other forums. Just they offer micro-fiction which is easier to fit into the schedule.

Nora - I know. My mind's just automatically set to use the maximum. I can't think of stories that I'd want to tell in 600 if I have 1500.

Offline xiagan

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Re: Should a contest winner be ineligible to win the next contest(s)?
« Reply #28 on: September 21, 2016, 12:19:40 PM »
Well, that's a clear result...
I think Eric is right in that we have to address concerns like this:
So two people basically rotate winning this contest?  Think I'll be passing on this event in the future.
when they arise in a serious manner.

If some kind of dinosaur or somebody else has the time it would be interesting to see how many entries participants needed for their first win... :)
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Offline Raptori

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Re: Should a contest winner be ineligible to win the next contest(s)?
« Reply #29 on: September 21, 2016, 01:10:03 PM »
If some kind of dinosaur or somebody else has the time it would be interesting to see how many entries participants needed for their first win... :)


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