August 25, 2019, 04:13:21 AM

Author Topic: Contest Anthology 2016  (Read 12867 times)

Offline Lanko

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Re: Contest Anthology 2016
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2016, 12:09:06 AM »
Yes, just typos or better polishing, wasn't thinking no heavy modifying (though it's up to you). After all, it's ours (and the forum's) image for eternity! Specially if you're someone who just loves to write in the last days ( ::)) and sometimes have to rush.

After all, people love authors who manage to get their ideas across clearly and economically, which means that readers can easily follow what they write. Readers prefer clear, economical prose.

« Last Edit: December 07, 2016, 03:02:14 AM by Lanko »
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Offline tebakutis

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Re: Contest Anthology 2016
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2016, 01:27:10 AM »
EDIT: Full disclosure - I am not disagreeing with the alternative methods, and could easily be overthinking this.

oh.  i see what you're saying.  i bet he meant the ones published on the main site.

Yes!

yeah.  ALL the stories entered in the contest are published.  anything we write here, even if it's not a winner which was "published on the home page" is still considered published.  if you're posting your story in the contest, fantasy faction basically consumes your first publication rights of that story.

Right, we've had that discussion before, but where it starts to get murky is when real money becomes involved (even for donations).

You published your story on a public forum and people read it - No problem!

You published your story on a public forum, and people read it, and then people pay real money (not to you, but to F-F) and for paying money, you get an e-book with the story - Tricky!

I think it's when the real money gets involved that you could possibly get into trouble or murky territory from an author's rights standpoint. *I* don't have any objection, and many people who have posted here do not, but that's not to say that other folks wouldn't (and wouldn't be correct in having one).

The reason I'm suggesting we only include the "winner" stories is because they are already published on the F-F main page (which is more "official" - the story was published by F-F, not the author) whereas all the other stories are just published here on the forum, by the author themselves. It's a subtle difference, but one we should consider. And yes, me posting on the forum myself counts as first publication, but it's still not being given away in exchange for money changing hands, and not in the same way as those F-F chooses to publish on the main site (which is said up front).

Basically, I am being super overly cautious. :)

i would imagine that's why most of the working writers in our forums don't ever enter stories into our contests.  folks like cameron, cupiscient, jrtroughton, etc.  but, i could be wrong.

anyway.

Tangent: I've often wondered that too! It's never stopped me from submitting, because I write these stories in a couple of hours (two tops) and consider them great writing exercises, but not necessarily work I would ever publish. But I also write really fast. I can see how people who write slower and have actual writing deadlines for paid work might be hesitant to devote time to the writing contest. For me, at least, every story I write for here is written fresh for here, so I'm not losing anything.

my long, boring point is:  stories in the contest are already published.

regardless, we'd ABSOLUTELY get permission from all the authors to publish their work in the anthology.

Yes, but as I'm pointing out (just to be cautious) published on public forum for free != published in an e-book that is sent to folks in exchange for real money.

As soon as you involve the exchange of real money for these stories (even donations) I think the ethics of everything get a bit trickier. By only including the story that wins each month, you can much more clearly lay out how the contest works simply by changing the contest description to "If your story wins, it will be published on the Fantasy-Faction website and (with your permission) included in our donation reward anthology".
« Last Edit: December 07, 2016, 01:30:37 AM by tebakutis »

Offline Lanko

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Re: Contest Anthology 2016
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2016, 01:52:51 AM »
Confirming with the author would solve all problems with that, I suppose? Specially if it's written (an e-mail or something)?

But I totally agree with @tebakutis being cautious with that.

And then I will add another topic in here: One of the winner stories is mine and is a parody featuring Conan and Nietzsche. Technically Conan *should* be public domain since 2006 or even before, but there's a lot going on regarding that, but I'm not sure if it only applies to films, comics or toys and similar merchandising. Couldn't exactly find it.

Sherlock passed through the same thing, he's public domain, just can't use some features/characteristic added in certain books released in the 40s that got somehow 95 years of copyright. Except for that, he is free game to be published by anyone. Might be the case with Conan too, but who knows, I couldn't find it.

No problem ditching that story if need be just to be safe, though.

Also, it sadly means our Fanfic month entries will have to go too, as @m3mnoch and @Jmack entries also features Conan. And stuff from Jim Butcher, GRRM and Moorcock.
I don't believe any of them would sue us or FF, but their publishers might, since the rights are in their hands and there is money involved. So I believe it's safe to cut the entries from Fanfic.
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Offline The Gem Cutter

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Re: Contest Anthology 2016
« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2016, 03:31:44 AM »
My strong agreements:

I think it's a fine idea, if we think the culture here can support growth and change. There's no risk of failure. In fact, all the risks lie in the area of success.

I strongly second the caution. So strongly, in fact, that I typed it twice: I strongly second the caution. I advise whomever is officially responsible for the site to contact a lawyer.

There's two kinds of people who hire lawyers - those who hire them to prevent problems from arising, and those who hire them to get themselves out of problems. The first option is cheaper but is often considered unnecessary; the second option is much more expensive, and utilized heavily by those who thought option 1 was too pricey. I'd get a consult, because F-F is just a website, it has no legal anything, and it certainly has no rights; whatever legal entity exists beneath and behind it carries all the risk. If no business entity exists, then it's the individuals themselves who carry that risk. If one does exist, the type and origination of that entity matter. Not to me, and probably not to many of you. But to some, it's  potentially very important.

Letting my imagination wander, I see the site itself has inherent value - that makes it targetable. (Just because I am paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you). For the price of a lawsuit, someone could acquire a website with a huge following that's just dying for banner ads and (un)official book/author plugs. The fact it is not used for monetary gain now doesn't mean it's not looked at that way, or couldn't be made that way.

My ignorance of intellectual property rights is profound, but I do believe they are not the same in every country. Claiming publication rights carries with it a geographical context in many situations, and acquiring consent is potentially meaningless if you don't know what legal entity or entities are looking at that consent, and in what context.

Consider: the exchange of things, even non-monetary things, depending on whose Government we're talking about, is often considered taxable - or even just reportable. If it's considered compensation, especially. Advertising is compensation, and in this day and age, defining "advertising" is a three-hour debate. All this relates to inherent value, but our opinions on what is or isn't valued are irrelevant. It's what the law says that will matter, probably in more than one place. And while a single transaction may seem like no big thing, a few hundred of them can begin to tally up fines and, you see where I am pointing.

Again, I love the idea - and this post was not intended to come across as a "sky falling" warning. Perhaps all my concerns are baseless - I hope they are. I'm just doing my job as a friend to bring them up so they can be dismissed, or taken into consideration.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2016, 03:37:07 AM by The Gem Cutter »
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Offline Lady Ty

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Re: Contest Anthology 2016
« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2016, 06:15:28 AM »
Wonderful dea and would be happy to support, but would prefer no benefit to Amazon in any way at all only to the FF site.

Cat Country was fun between friends, but is cram full of less than subtle and some direct references to other peoples' work as take-off/parody/fanfic so shouldn't be included, much as I would be honoured. Would be sure to upset someone. ;)
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Offline Nora

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Re: Contest Anthology 2016
« Reply #20 on: December 07, 2016, 11:00:31 AM »
Why are we all scared of offending people when website's like Wattpad are oozing bad fanfic through every pore?
It'd be an anthology of pre published works. Do fanfic communities refrain from doing anthologies because they write fanfic?  ???
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Offline Lanko

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Re: Contest Anthology 2016
« Reply #21 on: December 07, 2016, 05:05:48 PM »
Why are we all scared of offending people when website's like Wattpad are oozing bad fanfic through every pore?
It'd be an anthology of pre published works. Do fanfic communities refrain from doing anthologies because they write fanfic?  ???

But those are free. Well, I think it is? Or... actually they're not?

I think some here want it free for everyone and some for a very cheap price to help the forum.
If it's free, available for everyone, then no problem, keep all the Fanfic. Or even if it's free with a donation button.
If it's paid and we put it in the Amazon store, *maybe* we should consider removing Fanfic. I don't really know if there could be implications of actively using characters like Harry Dresden, Daenerys Targaryen, etc and charging for it, even if we say it was a Fanfic themed month.

But of course I support the anthology.
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Offline ScarletBea

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Re: Contest Anthology 2016
« Reply #22 on: December 07, 2016, 05:13:33 PM »
Also note that F-F is a british-based site, so I assume the legal environment would be UK and not USA (it's very different - that's all I know about it).
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Offline JMack

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Re: Contest Anthology 2016
« Reply #23 on: December 07, 2016, 05:45:30 PM »
For the record I am ALL FOR THIS!!
 ;D

Just have to figure out how "Skeleton Walks Into a bar" works in an ebook.
Worked great on the site by using spoilers.....
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Offline Lanko

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Re: Contest Anthology 2016
« Reply #24 on: December 07, 2016, 06:12:06 PM »
For the record I am ALL FOR THIS!!
 ;D

Just have to figure out how "Skeleton Walks Into a bar" works in an ebook.
Worked great on the site by using spoilers.....

Hyperlinks on the choices! Pretty much like selecting a chapter in the index table.

That's something our publisher, m3m & noch house, can do. I think.
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Offline TOMunro

Re: Contest Anthology 2016
« Reply #25 on: December 10, 2016, 11:58:17 PM »
I think it's a great idea.  It would need a cover though! anybody any good at drawing?

I agree with the distribution through the website to FF supporters/donators (rather than through amazon etc - which would be complex)

12 does seem like a small number of stories though.

If you made it 52 that would work out at about 80,000 words and you'd be giving people a short story a week for a year.

Offline night_wrtr

Re: Contest Anthology 2016
« Reply #26 on: December 12, 2016, 06:24:27 PM »
Been thinking about this and still can't decide if I fall into the "yay" or "nay" category.

Offline m3mnoch

Re: Contest Anthology 2016
« Reply #27 on: December 13, 2016, 03:28:56 PM »
i've got a two hour train ride this morning.  maybe i'll try to get something cobbled together for us to look at as a test.


For the record I am ALL FOR THIS!!
 ;D

Just have to figure out how "Skeleton Walks Into a bar" works in an ebook.
Worked great on the site by using spoilers.....

Hyperlinks on the choices! Pretty much like selecting a chapter in the index table.

That's something our publisher, m3m & noch house, can do. I think.

i was thinking something simpler, like numbered sections.  old-school gamebook style.

Offline m3mnoch

Re: Contest Anthology 2016
« Reply #28 on: December 21, 2016, 12:59:48 AM »
okey dokey.  i went ahead and finished up a sample book as sort of a test to see where the holes are.  it's kind of a mess in that it needs better formatting for the introduction on each month, the table of contents needs some work, some stylesheet polishing, actual metadata content, a real cover -- all of that before we dig into the individual story formatting.

*shrug*

it's kind of fun, tho.

==================================================================
- Anthology Downloads -
standard epub:
http://m3mnoch.com/static/ff-books/2016-contest-anthology-2016-12-20.epub

kindle mobi:
http://m3mnoch.com/static/ff-books/2016-contest-anthology-2016-12-20.mobi

rich text document:
http://m3mnoch.com/static/ff-books/2016-contest-anthology-2016-12-20.rtf
==================================================================

Offline night_wrtr

Re: Contest Anthology 2016
« Reply #29 on: December 21, 2016, 01:45:22 AM »
How many pages is the average anthology?