December 11, 2017, 07:17:56 AM

Author Topic: Politics and other ailments of the real world  (Read 121277 times)

Offline The Gem Cutter

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #2475 on: December 02, 2017, 06:27:22 AM »
Dominos continue to fall - with a decidedly upward trend. The house of cards is falling. Let's hope the white house doesn't opt for a nuclear war with North Korea to distract from their legal woes.
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Offline Rostum

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #2476 on: December 03, 2017, 05:02:28 PM »
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-42215767

You know things are getting weird when the most powerful man in the world is attacking his own secret police.

Online Eli_Freysson

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #2477 on: December 03, 2017, 09:46:32 PM »
I've seen it argued that Trump is a master of diversionary tactics: When things get bad he shouts outrageous nonsense to distract the media and fire up his idiot Nazi base.

I don't know. I think he's just an animal, that can't help but instinctively lash out when it perceives any kind of provocation, and it just happens to sort-of work for him in the short term. I don't think there's any actual strategy behind anything he does. People say he took advantage of working-class frustration and xenophobia to get elected, but I don't think there is enough to his personality for there to be room for cynicism. I think he just ploughs on towards whatever his pure id psyche is set on, with no thought beyond immediate gratification.

Sheesh.
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Offline Bradley Darewood

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #2478 on: December 04, 2017, 12:12:23 PM »
F##%$#%$#$ aFAFDSJKLFAJKLASDFJKLSFDJSADFKSADFJKL!!!!
aASAAASAASFAFDFSDAEEFFRRRGGGHAHHHGHGHGGHGHGHGH!!!!
ARRRRRRGGGGHGHGHGHGGHGHGHGH!!!!

(pant) (pant) (pant)

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHFHFHFSDLKHDSFLKHDFSHLKSFDSDFLKHDSFHKLDSFLHKSDFLKHSDFLKHSFDKLHSDFLKHSDFLHKFDHLKSFDLKHSDFHKLSDFKLHFSDKLHSFKLHSFDKHLFDSHKLFEWHIFWIOF)W#*#H#*E$$WW$*(*(&)#%#$#%()#%)$@)%(#@)(%#@$()%@#(%)@#$%()#@$(%)

F***ck this c$%^s%k$ng f#$@#$#@$#ng heaping s@##$tpile

please somebody help me move to europe.

Offline ScarletBea

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #2479 on: December 04, 2017, 12:31:46 PM »
 :o Gosh Bradley, is this something specific to you or are you complaining about the general state of the US?

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Offline Bradley Darewood

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #2480 on: December 04, 2017, 02:40:20 PM »
1) the republican tax plan (destroying the middle class)
2) repeal of net neutrality (which will devistate the economy more than people realize resulting in inflation)
3) the war with Korea and possible nuclear holocaust brought on by a psycho propped up by the Russians
4) the half of the county is just batshit crazy af believing whatever absurd sh*** they're told I can't take it anymore

Offline tebakutis

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #2481 on: December 04, 2017, 03:46:10 PM »
1) the republican tax plan (destroying the middle class)
2) repeal of net neutrality (which will devistate the economy more than people realize resulting in inflation)
3) the war with Korea and possible nuclear holocaust brought on by a psycho propped up by the Russians
4) the half of the county is just batshit crazy af believing whatever absurd sh*** they're told I can't take it anymore

I feel your pain, Bradley. Acutely.
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Offline BeardKing

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #2482 on: December 04, 2017, 07:16:37 PM »
We're all feeling that pain.

Offline ultamentkiller

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #2483 on: December 04, 2017, 08:57:55 PM »
The tax plan is what's killing me at the moment more than the rest of it. For me, it means a good chance of the Vocational Rehabilitation Agency losing funding, which barely manages to help us with disabilities find jobs with the financial support it has. And the loss of IDEA funding, which ensures K-12 students with disabilities receive the necessary resources. So thanks government.

the loss of net neutrality is terrifying, but I'm more concerned with getting through college at the moment.

Offline NightWrite

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #2484 on: December 04, 2017, 09:58:18 PM »
I'm not sure which is more annoying.

The continual destruction of the ACA bit by bit without any new healthcare plan to put in place, as seen by the bill's removal of the mandate all American's must purchase healthcare.

Or McConnell calling the democrats ridiculous for complaining about the tax bill's presentation. Why wouldn't they complain, they were given a photocopy of a massive document full of hand-written notes and changes in the margins. Many of them supposedly unreadable chicken scratch.

I really should stop watching the news for my health and sanity, but it's like a train wreck.

Offline Bradley Darewood

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #2485 on: December 05, 2017, 01:03:22 AM »
I'm not sure which is more annoying.

The continual destruction of the ACA bit by bit without any new healthcare plan to put in place, as seen by the bill's removal of the mandate all American's must purchase healthcare.


So while the tax bill was horrible, and there were some disturbing ACA attacks in it, I will defend the Repubs in saying that the individual mandate was just, in my opinion, morally wrong.  It's the only good thing they've done.

Our country put in place a system which is neither socialistic nor capitalistic, in which insurance drives the costs of medicine up astronomically, insulating drugs and services from market mechanisms through nepotism, while REAPING A 50% PROFIT, reducing quality of care by forcing doctors to follow protocols that maximize profits at the expense of patients-- even suing doctors who order precautionary CAT scans for example, while driving the cost of insurance up so high that individuals and companies can barely afford it, and driving the cost of medicine so high that 50% of debt in the US is medical debt.  So we created this social/political/economic disaster which is *fundamentally tied to the existence of insurance, which is inherently corrupt, and corrosive to the economy and health of the public* and has resulted in *the worst healthcare system on the planet* and I say that having lived all over the Third World, and the response is to MANDATE POOR PEOPLE WHO CAN'T AFFORD IT TO PURCHASE INSURANCE??? then celebrate how many people are now "insured"? And if they don't purchase insurance you penalize the poorest of the poor with a hefty fine in their taxes? It's complete and utter bullshit and while I think the Republican agenda is generally pure evil and they probably ultimately want to undercut the functioning of ACA, in this particular case getting rid of the individual mandate was ethically the right thing to do.

Sorry for the tirade.  Esp if any of you work in insurance.  I worked in the medical field for a while and was actually once on track to be an MD before I got so disgusted with the system so I get very upset about this topic.

Offline tebakutis

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #2486 on: December 05, 2017, 02:04:42 AM »
Sorry for the tirade.  Esp if any of you work in insurance.  I worked in the medical field for a while and was actually once on track to be an MD before I got so disgusted with the system so I get very upset about this topic.

I'm not sure how closely you've been following the ACA, Bradley, but as I understand it, the individual mandate is the only way healthy people will buy insurance, which is the only non-employer based insurance pools can work. It's a flawed solution, but it's become even more flawed due to Republican sabotage. Despite that, without the individual mandate, the ACA can't survive, and all those sick who don't have employer health insurance get left out in the cold ... meaning they die.

Because our system is so based on capitalism, insurers will only insure those who are truly sick (and super expensive) if they can offset the cost with payments from healthy people. The ACA was designed such that the individual mandate would force everyone (even young, healthy folks who would generally forego insurance) to contribute an affordable amount, spreading the cost so it could be managed by all (basically, single-payer). Assuming the premiums were affordable, this would spread the cost of the truly sick across a huge pool of healthy people (the same way insurance through employers works) and allow sick people who needed insurance to get it.

The way this was supposed to be affordable was by giving tax credits to the poor (which the Republicans want to revoke) and to expand Medicaid (which the Republicans opposed) and, upon adoption of the ACA, many blue states accepted the expansion. These states had healthy, robust options that, by and large, their citizens have been happy with (this was all based on Romney's blueprint for Massachussets, amusingly enough).

However, a number of red state Republican governors refused to take the Medicaid expansion when it was offered, basically turning down free money and saying "Nu uh, we hate the ACA, so we'll sabotage it and screw over our citizens to prove our lies right." This led to rates rising in red states and in places where the Medicaid expansion didn't work, and rates have continued to fluctuate thanks to Trump's efforts (and those of House Republicans) to justify their lies about he ACA by doing all they can to sabotage it.

Ultimately, here's why repealing the individual mandate is bad. Despite the efforts by red state governors, Republicans, and Trump to cripple the ACA and harm people, it's still the ONLY option for many folks to get insurance, including those with pre-existing conditions. Repeal the individual mandate? 13 million people drop or lose coverage. 13 million people drop coverage? All the insurance companies participating in the ACA drop out of the ACA, because they can no longer make a profit when only sick people are signed up. All those insurance companies drop out of the ACA? People can't buy health insurance, and they die.

I agree the individual mandate is a flawed system, but our efforts should to fixing and shoring up the ACA (bills have been drafted by Democrats to do just that, and killed by Ryan/McConnell before a vote) rather than sabotaging it. The problem with repealing the individual mandate is it basically fucks insurance for everyone, which is why, though it seems like a good idea to kill it, what actually needs to be done is to FIX it.

The Republicans will block all efforts to fix the ACA to the dying breaths of those they screw over. Working with the Democrats to fix it would mean admitting they lied about it never being able to work, and they can't do that. Hence where we are now, where it sucks that people get penalized for not buying health insurance, but if we don't penalize them, *no one* (save sick people) buy health insurance, and the entire system collapses in upon itself (which is precisely what the Republicans and Trump want).
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Offline Bradley Darewood

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #2487 on: December 05, 2017, 03:12:54 AM »
Sorry for the tirade.  Esp if any of you work in insurance.  I worked in the medical field for a while and was actually once on track to be an MD before I got so disgusted with the system so I get very upset about this topic.

I'm not sure how closely you've been following the ACA, Bradley, but as I understand it, the individual mandate is the only way healthy people will buy insurance, which is the only non-employer based insurance pools can work. It's a flawed solution, but it's become even more flawed due to Republican sabotage. Despite that, without the individual mandate, the ACA can't survive, and all those sick who don't have employer health insurance get left out in the cold ... meaning they die.

Because our system is so based on capitalism, insurers will only insure those who are truly sick (and super expensive) if they can offset the cost with payments from healthy people. The ACA was designed such that the individual mandate would force everyone (even young, healthy folks who would generally forego insurance) to contribute an affordable amount, spreading the cost so it could be managed by all (basically, single-payer). Assuming the premiums were affordable, this would spread the cost of the truly sick across a huge pool of healthy people (the same way insurance through employers works) and allow sick people who needed insurance to get it.

The way this was supposed to be affordable was by giving tax credits to the poor (which the Republicans want to revoke) and to expand Medicaid (which the Republicans opposed) and, upon adoption of the ACA, many blue states accepted the expansion. These states had healthy, robust options that, by and large, their citizens have been happy with (this was all based on Romney's blueprint for Massachussets, amusingly enough).

However, a number of red state Republican governors refused to take the Medicaid expansion when it was offered, basically turning down free money and saying "Nu uh, we hate the ACA, so we'll sabotage it and screw over our citizens to prove our lies right." This led to rates rising in red states and in places where the Medicaid expansion didn't work, and rates have continued to fluctuate thanks to Trump's efforts (and those of House Republicans) to justify their lies about he ACA by doing all they can to sabotage it.

Ultimately, here's why repealing the individual mandate is bad. Despite the efforts by red state governors, Republicans, and Trump to cripple the ACA and harm people, it's still the ONLY option for many folks to get insurance, including those with pre-existing conditions. Repeal the individual mandate? 13 million people drop or lose coverage. 13 million people drop coverage? All the insurance companies participating in the ACA drop out of the ACA, because they can no longer make a profit when only sick people are signed up. All those insurance companies drop out of the ACA? People can't buy health insurance, and they die.

I agree the individual mandate is a flawed system, but our efforts should to fixing and shoring up the ACA (bills have been drafted by Democrats to do just that, and killed by Ryan/McConnell before a vote) rather than sabotaging it. The problem with repealing the individual mandate is it basically fucks insurance for everyone, which is why, though it seems like a good idea to kill it, what actually needs to be done is to FIX it.

The Republicans will block all efforts to fix the ACA to the dying breaths of those they screw over. Working with the Democrats to fix it would mean admitting they lied about it never being able to work, and they can't do that. Hence where we are now, where it sucks that people get penalized for not buying health insurance, but if we don't penalize them, *no one* (save sick people) buy health insurance, and the entire system collapses in upon itself (which is precisely what the Republicans and Trump want).

Yes I've heard these arguments, and yes as someone who's worked in the medical field and someone who's intimately familiar with the system, I still find the individual mandate ethically repugnant.

I think the expansion of Medicare, protection for people with pre-existing conditions are great parts of ACA.   I'd love to see the insurance companies regulated more.  But if you want to fix the healthcare system, don't put the economic burden on the poor and uninsured.  To do so is utterly reprehensible.

I can go into the details of how its possible to expand healthcare coverage without an individual mandate, but that would take hours.  If you want an example, however,  just look at the heathcare plan that Hillary Clinton proposed when her husband was president.  It wasn't passed, but it would have expanded coverage without an individual mandate.

ADDED FOR CLARITY:
1993, Clinton's healthcare bill involved an "employee mandate" effectively protecting the poor. She was strenuously opposed to an "individual mandate" and rightfully so.  Once ACA came out, she vehemently defended the individual mandate because politicians close ranks and eat the whole party line and pretend like anyone who criticisms any part of it is treasonous-- a groupthink that infects the entire country. Republican supporters ignore any criticism of Trump and his ties to Russia of all places as fake news, despite what you would expect.  Dems defend atrocities like the individual mandate, and assume any criticism is equally designed to undermine progressive healthcare.  The 1993 plan was more ethical, in my opinion and I'm glad the republicans repealed the individual mandate.  I hope that 1) dems take the Congress in the 2018 elections and 2) instead of re-establishing the individual mandate, they look for viable plan to make it work without one, and ultimately transition us to a post-insurance medical system

But rainbows and unicorns are also nice so clearly none of that is going to happen.  This country has stopped circling the toilet bowl and is now half way down the drain.  Between internet costs w/ net neutrality, rising medical costs, and the stranglehold landowners have on everyone else this country has already become an unlivable and is on its way to pushing much of the country to level of desperation that rival a natural disaster in upcoming decades.

I think my best bet is to go back to Ecuador or some country with subsidized medicine that is affordable and live out my days someplace humane and just watch the US descend into something worse than the third world from a distance.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2017, 04:09:03 AM by Bradley Darewood »

Online Eli_Freysson

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #2488 on: December 05, 2017, 06:31:46 AM »
"But, but, her emails guys!"
I'll notify your next of kin... that you sucked!

Online Eli_Freysson

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #2489 on: December 05, 2017, 08:29:04 AM »
So is that tax bill set in stone now, or are there still ways it can be tripped up? Can the next administration do something about it?
I'll notify your next of kin... that you sucked!