April 26, 2018, 01:54:49 PM

Author Topic: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Spoiler Thread)  (Read 1437 times)

Offline Yora

Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Spoiler Thread)
« Reply #15 on: December 31, 2017, 11:31:18 PM »
It's not that the Finn and Rose story is pointless. (Even though they fail.) It's just that Finn isn't really contributing in any way while Rose does everything.

I also think the Casino Planet looks too much like a 20th century mediterranean tourist town. The opera on Corruscant in Revenge of the Sith was awesome and this one could have been as well, but everyone was walking around in 20th century Earth suits instead of showing off the high class alien fashion.

I think Rose is one of the most interesting addition to the standard roster of Star Wars characters. She's short, wearing a very flattering potato sack, and has no real combat abilities. She's not a hero but representative of all the people that actually make up the majority of the rebellion. War isn't her element but when she sees an opportunity to contribute something vital she doesn't hesitate or makes any fuss about it like the big heroes who always have their big drama.
I really liked it when the slicer (that's the proper Star Wars term) wents advance payment and Finn starts to argue that demanding items of personal value is completely unacceptable, and she just takes it and throws it to him. She's trying to save hundreds of people from death and the whole Rebelkion. A  trinket of purely sentimental value is a price she does pay in an instant.

Speaking of which, it still doesn't sit right with me that they are putting stormtrooper armor on a janitor slave with zero combat conditioning. Finn seems to be in a constant state of dazed panic. Stormtroopers are supposed to be ruthless elite veterans. Now they are just lowest grade untrained conscripts.
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Offline Elfy

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Spoiler Thread)
« Reply #16 on: January 01, 2018, 01:29:42 AM »
Speaking of which, it still doesn't sit right with me that they are putting stormtrooper armor on a janitor slave with zero combat conditioning. Finn seems to be in a constant state of dazed panic. Stormtroopers are supposed to be ruthless elite veterans. Now they are just lowest grade untrained conscripts.
The used to be elite in the days of the old Empire. The stormtroopers the First Order seems to use come across more like child soldiers. Although Finn was described as being a stormtrooper and highly trained, prior to the conflict on Jakku, he was on janitorial duty.

Offline Nora

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Spoiler Thread)
« Reply #17 on: January 01, 2018, 11:59:10 AM »
Speaking of which, it still doesn't sit right with me that they are putting stormtrooper armor on a janitor slave with zero combat conditioning. Finn seems to be in a constant state of dazed panic. Stormtroopers are supposed to be ruthless elite veterans. Now they are just lowest grade untrained conscripts.
The used to be elite in the days of the old Empire. The stormtroopers the First Order seems to use come across more like child soldiers. Although Finn was described as being a stormtrooper and highly trained, prior to the conflict on Jakku, he was on janitorial duty.

Yes. Definitely yes to that. First Storm troopers were clones, then the disappearance of clones over trained troops happened, in two different ways in canon and legends, but in the end, even in the original trilogy, we're looking at trained normal people.
Then after the trilogy, there was the (canon) battle of Jakku, which is why there are this much imperial ships in ruins on the planet. It's because palpating ordered the empire to die alongside him. His sort of adoptive son takes care of that plan (it's in novels), and some imperial staff escape the battle and go found the first order.
So we're looking at young, highly indoctrinated people, "raised from children" by the first order. It's only to be expected that this would result in weaker martial ability. They probably don't have the same martial school support as they used to.
Besides, you can't watch the original trilogy and its storm troopers and call them super talented soldiers or marksmen. They're the end of all jokes about not being able to shoot straight. In comparison the first order troopers do almost ok in front of Maz's watering hole.
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Offline Bradley Darewood

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Spoiler Thread)
« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2018, 08:27:26 AM »
Okay I finally saw it!  I basically agree with everything you guys said here. It was good enough that I can see how people who are motivated by hype could enjoy it, but...

I felt like it was less of a star wars movie and more poorly plotted fanfiction, but not terrible fanfiction.*  Unlike the prequels (which felt like they had Star Wars continuity but were just awful) I watched this one to the end, but next movie I'm just gonna catch on a friend's netflix when it comes out on DVD.  I'd give it 2.5/5 stars.

Spoiler for Hiden:

*As you guys mentioned the kamikaze light speed, the 21st century Casino and a dozen other things just didn't fit logisitcally and culturally into the universe (the WW2 trenches... the bombs dropping *in space* instead of missles more things felt off than I could count).  One question for die hard fans: was it just me or did it feel like they were using the phrase "may the force be with you" too licentiously?  It didn't sound right, like do you have to be a certain person that actually uses the force to say that, or how does that go?  In this movie it was sort of like saying "aloha" if you're hawaiian

You guys already hit on all the things that immediately rubbed me wrong. It's like we're psychically connected.

But among the many things that could have been fixed:

It's hard to buy that a giant dreadnot or whatever is gonna blast a tiny ship while they just sit there long enough for a long-ass trip to a vacay planet and back. They address it in one line, but it's still stupid.  And why aren't they targeting transport ships? Is this even a war?  How does any space battle even matter if you can just sit there while they fire on you and it's like perfectly zen.  Even if they had set it up properly the psychic contrast between a distant resort planet and a live space battle is temporally too much. (and calling someone who's busy because of a "union dispute" go to this planet instead just felt stupid).  It was sloppy plotting.  If they had been holed up in the base and had to do something elaborate to sneak out that could have been at least somewhat believable, but as it was the suspension of disbelief wasn't there.

Luke's death wasn't earned by the story. I loved the force-ghost punking, but there was no set-up within the movie to tell you that you even *can* die from use of the force, esp something like projecting yourself (was it an illusion or an actual part of him? they needed to exposit that somewhere early and come back to it). The punking was a great surprise but the death after didn't work as a dramatic surprise at all, and if it wasn't a surprise it needed to be foreshadowed, which it wasn't. That tree burning scene could have shifted tone as if Luke understand there's something he needs to do and is resigned to it, or some cryptic Yoda "see you soon" instead of the Yoda-as-kermit-the-frog that we got. He says he wants to die at some point, but that's an angsty whine, not a dramatic arc. We needed to feel that transition.

There are easy, obvious fixes to this (and another million things that didn't land but could have in the movie) but it's like they didn't bother to do a structural edit of the script. When Luke died it just happened (much like Solo's death) it felt unnecessary, or like a studio saying "we don't want to pay this actor anymore" okay here's a 30 sec scene we didn't prepare for, boom. Similarly, I didn't feel Han's death was earned in the previous movie-- Harrison didn't feel like a character in the movie so much as someone who appeared in it. Even using Kylo, they could have built to that moment to make it actually feel a lot more meaningful instead of just "oh look the bad guy sucks"

I think they did a MUCH better job with Kylo in this move than the first one.  I loved the Snope killing moment, and it was cool that they fight together... but if Kylo's such a badass, how does he struggle so much with killing guards right after killing Snoke??? Instead of building to Snoke, it was sort of anti-clamatic and felt weird that they would have any chance of loosing to his henchmen.  Also I kinda got the sense that they'd respect Kylo as ruler but I guess not. (Also Hux questioning Kylo felt off.)

Plus if they're guards, shouldn't they be sort of stiff an uniform instead of such a diverse range of weapons and styles?  The whole melodramatic weapon stomping and plastic helmets whatnot made me feel like I was watching a Star Wars themed dance performance at a mall or something instead of a movie.  Could they have set up a moment that builds up to killing Snoke instead? Like where they battle the guards and then Snoke enters, there's a verbal battle for Kylo that Snoke easily wins, there's a faux betrayal by Kylo that's reversed when he kills Snoke?

Also Kylo Ren=Ben Solo? did he just change some first letters around?  And from the previous movie Starkiller Base? This is also why this feels like fanfic
« Last Edit: January 03, 2018, 08:38:30 AM by Bradley Darewood »