Fantasy Faction

Fantasy Faction Writers => Writers' Corner => Topic started by: Bradley Darewood on December 30, 2017, 11:04:34 AM

Title: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: Bradley Darewood on December 30, 2017, 11:04:34 AM

Poll: is it okay to use the word "insane" in a tolkienesque epic fantasy novel, or is that too modern?
"mad" just doesn't have the same ring to it.
Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: Eclipse on December 30, 2017, 11:06:53 AM
Loon?
Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: Yora on December 30, 2017, 12:48:29 PM
Certainly better than crazy.

Though in the end, it really depends on the setting and how you imagine it. I am using aketon instead of gambeson because gambeson sounds too French, even though it is today almost the universally used term.
I also call the creatures I use trolls and not ogres, kobolds instead of goblins, and leshy instead of spriggans The way I envision them, either terms would be perfectly fine, but it evokes different cultural associations.
Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: Peat on December 30, 2017, 03:47:30 PM
Works for me.
Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: ScarletBea on December 30, 2017, 04:26:14 PM
Insane is fine.
Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: cupiscent on December 30, 2017, 09:11:45 PM
Looks like it has a latin origin from the 16th century, so I don't see why you couldn't use that alongside all the other latinate terms you're no doubt using. :)
Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: Skip on December 31, 2017, 04:14:15 AM
Context is everything. How is the word being used? Is it used by a character or by the narrator? Whichever, what is the tone of other language used by him/her? Any number of words suggest themselves: unhinged, touched, unsound, not right in the head, foolish, demented ... in English, there's almost always another way to say a thing.
Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: The Gem Cutter on December 31, 2017, 06:28:23 AM
Beyond direct synonyms for crazy, mad, insane, etc., you might try the character using more specific terms for the behavior. Specificity in characterization is important, anyway, so terms like "nonsensical", "illogical", etc., might serve your tone better.
Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: Bradley Darewood on January 02, 2018, 06:00:38 AM
Looks like it has a latin origin from the 16th century, so I don't see why you couldn't use that alongside all the other latinate terms you're no doubt using. :)

That's good to hear, I quite like the word insane-- You get to pump that last syllable and it just sounds great.

I know criminal is another latinate word, but it really does feel modern.... that's one I'd  happily replace if I could figure it out.
Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: NedMarcus on January 02, 2018, 11:48:57 AM
Insane works for me.
Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: Bradley Darewood on January 23, 2018, 12:42:34 PM
Ok--I know I've asked this before, but how about: shite vs. shit.  when did people start saying shite instead of shit?  Is it too modern? To my american ear it just sounds british.

Historically speaking, it was scite

https://newrepublic.com/article/116713/swear-word-history-where-your-favorite-curses-came

but what's more important is what readers will index when they hear it.  Will shite pull them out of the setting moreso than shit?


Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: Bradley Darewood on January 24, 2018, 11:49:30 AM
Also is using "thank the Light" as an expression too much of a rip off of Robert Jordan?
Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: cupiscent on January 24, 2018, 09:31:24 PM
Bloody Jordan. Took me literally days to come up with an alternative to calling my magical-source-of-power "the Source". *shakes fist*

imho, "Light" is a much more commonly-occurring and oft-referenced concept in fantasy, so I think you're probably good with it as long as it's well built into your world.

I don't have anything for you on shite though, except that to my ear it also sounds British/Irish, but I don't know when, where or how it became more popular.
Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: The Gem Cutter on January 25, 2018, 06:28:36 AM
Instead of a name for magic, I came up with the name of its source (the Apeiron, and ancient and long-forgotten term) and the way its power is manipulated, through being Empowered or being Influential, with most characters not being aware of the difference.
Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: Magnus Hedén on January 25, 2018, 08:32:50 AM
Light is a universal concept and represents righteousness, purity, and general goody-two-shoeness in the cultural hive-mind, so using it like that shouldn't be a problem. But maybe there's something better? Why is the light a good thing, in your world?

For example, in my hopefully-still-prize-winning short story, someone says "thank the dawn". They live in a world where they are not sure when and if the sun will come up, so the light of dawn holds special significance to them. So they are saying the same thing, but with different words.
Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: Bradley Darewood on January 25, 2018, 09:31:48 AM

Light is a universal concept and represents righteousness, purity, and general goody-two-shoeness in the cultural hive-mind, so using it like that shouldn't be a problem. But maybe there's something better? Why is the light a good thing, in your world?

For example, in my hopefully-still-prize-winning short story, someone says "thank the dawn". They live in a world where they are not sure when and if the sun will come up, so the light of dawn holds special significance to them. So they are saying the same thing, but with different words.

Well in my WIP, everyone believes that everything came from Light, light is good etc etc, if you become a magus you have to chose whether to become a dark magus and use the nether and have the ether ripped from you or become a white magus and use the ether and have the nether ripped from you-- they are complementary forces that do different things, and magi believe it's about whether good or evil is stronger within you, while people who use magic in the traditional way, who haven't had half of their soul ripped out are considered dirty and persecuted as witches--if they don't come to take the Trials and become a magus they are burnt at the stake. The fact is that they're wrong and 2000 years ago, magi used both forces together to create these giant statues to seal the Fell, making it impossible for anything to leave the mountains, and it would take someone capable of using both forces to undo that, so they started the practice of choosing one force over the other and over 2000 years the reasons for the practice got mixed up in all these value judgements.

Also the gods don't really appear for the most part (there's a peddler-hero god that turns out to be an evil af immortal that was cursed by higher powers that he doesn't really explain), people believe in a sun goddess who unveiled the sun and caused life to burst forth from the earth, but one of the big bad guys is a Cardinal who after praying to her forever finds a cave that his Priory was built on top of, with an ancient, pre-literate shrine to a goddess of darkness and a bloodstone that gives him all these powers so he starts a secret cult while pulling the strings of the both the ruling council of his country and the church.  And he can steal people's souls. Later you find out that all life was birthed from a goddess of darkness, not light.  So... idk... that still doesn't help me with finding a substitute expression.

So regardless of whether Light *has* to be associated with good or not in my own head (or even in the realities of the world I've built), people *believe* that it is, so consequently that needs to be reflected in the way people think and talk. If I want to twist it, it has to be done from the conventional starting point.
Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: Bradley Darewood on January 25, 2018, 11:16:10 AM

A term I really wish I could steal from GRRM is "nameday" to replace birthday
Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: ScarletBea on January 25, 2018, 11:20:45 AM
A term I really wish I could steal from GRRM is "nameday" to replace birthday
I'm not sure that one comes from GRRM, I've seen that in many books for ages ???
Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: Bradley Darewood on January 25, 2018, 11:39:54 AM
A term I really wish I could steal from GRRM is "nameday" to replace birthday
I'm not sure that one comes from GRRM, I've seen that in many books for ages ???

What other ones?
Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: cupiscent on January 25, 2018, 08:56:47 PM
I would've called "name day" a separate thing from birthday, as in the Greek Orthodox tradition (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_day).

I could've sworn that in medieval Europe you celebrated on the day of the saint you were named for as well (rather than day of your birth), but it's too early for me to go hunting for that.

I do know that in Korean tradition, you count from conception date (not sure how they calculate this) so you turn "zero" roughly three months after you're born, and that's when they bother naming you. (Because, y'know, why bother casting the auguries/pissing off aunties if you're just going to die quick anyway...)
Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: ScarletBea on January 25, 2018, 09:38:45 PM
What other ones?
Not sure... maybe John Gwynne's?

I could've sworn that in medieval Europe you celebrated on the day of the saint you were named for as well (rather than day of your birth), but it's too early for me to go hunting for that.
That's true, and apparently in Eastern Europe that's still a thing, because I got a friend from Hungary and she once arrived saying it was her name/saint's name day.
Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: Lady Ty on January 25, 2018, 09:40:34 PM
I would've called "name day" a separate thing from birthday, as in the Greek Orthodox tradition (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_day).

I could've sworn that in medieval Europe you celebrated on the day of the saint you were named for as well (rather than day of your birth), but it's too early for me to go hunting for that.

I do know that in Korean tradition, you count from conception date (not sure how they calculate this) so you turn "zero" roughly three months after you're born, and that's when they bother naming you. (Because, y'know, why bother casting the auguries/pissing off aunties if you're just going to die quick anyway...)

Agree it can be confusing to assume a name day is the same as a birthday, often this will be seen as wrong.

Present day convention among many Eastern Orthodox community here is as cupiscent suggests and many Greek as well. We have Macedonian family and believe me there are name day celebrations somewhere at least monthly.  A national characteristic is love of good party.  ;D

A name day is an even more important celebration than a birthday and involves a big family and friends party. It is held on the feast day of the saint the family surname* is associated with, and any family missing the name day celebration has to have a very good excuse or are in big trouble.   There are a lot of saints and every surname can be associated with one.

ETA* Just checked and they celebrate individual names on their Saints' days as well and as described by cupi and ScarletBea. I just knew there were a lot.  Of course, more parties. Must admit the Macedonians are wonderfully generous, hospitable, love happy dancing and brilliant at BBQ . ;D (But, dont tell on me, their music is dreadful. ::))

Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: Yora on January 31, 2018, 08:06:26 PM
For philosophical reasons I don't want to use the word Evil. Evil implies that there is some factual dualism of Good and Evil, which I specifically want to avoid. But sometimes, you still just have monsters or places that seemingly desire nothing but to kill and cause suffering. Is there another word that could get this across?

The closest related words I can think of as description are cruel and hateful, but Hateful Forest just doesn't have quite the snappy ring to it.  ;)
Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: The Gem Cutter on January 31, 2018, 08:36:18 PM
Malevolent, Baleful, and pretty much any word beginning with mal- or bal- come to mind. I wonder about your approach to naming - if you want to avoid dualism in naming, it implies you don't want dualism, begging the question: why have an evil place in the first place, if there's no good or evil?
Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: tebakutis on February 01, 2018, 03:05:21 AM
I'm sure most of you guys know about it, but http://www.thesaurus.com/ (http://www.thesaurus.com/) is my go to place for writing. I usually hit it up once if not many times while editing. It's just so useful for finding a word that has the meaning I want but the sound I like.

For instance, "hate" brought me the following:

animosity
antagonism
enmity
hatred
horror
hostility
loathing
pain
rancor
resentment
revenge
venom
abhorrence
abomination
anathema
animus
antipathy
aversion
bother
bugbear
detestation
disgust
execration
frost
grievance
gripe
irritant
malevolence
malignity
nuisance
objection
odium
rankling
repugnance
repulsion
revulsion
scorn
spite
trouble
black beast
bête noire
ill will
mislike
nasty look
no love lost

"Forest of Spite", "Forest of Scorn", and "Forest of Rancor" all fit the bill, along with others.
Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: The Gem Cutter on February 01, 2018, 03:23:20 AM
Now combine with all the synonyms for forest and you're done.

"Welcome to the Grievewood. Most everything's poisonous here. What isn't poisonous has thorns. Biggun's that'll scoop your eye right out of your head."

Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: JMack on February 01, 2018, 12:17:53 PM
In my last story, I kept trying to remember a word for a ruined building, like a castle or such. I ended up with “pile”, but kept thinking there is a fantasy-ish two-syllable word that is escaping me.

And yes, I used thesaurus.com for “ruin.”

Word detectives?
Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: Bradley Darewood on February 06, 2018, 04:02:41 AM

So here's another one.

What's an archaic word for a sweatshop?

My MC's mother lives in the slums of the Outer City sewing clothes to be sold to the nobility by Lord who owns the Slummer's Quarter, making less money than she has to pay the same lord for her rent.  He's like a slumlord back when they were just called lords.  What do I call the physical place in the slums where she goes to sew with other women?
Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: tebakutis on February 06, 2018, 05:45:18 AM

So here's another one.

What's an archaic word for a sweatshop?

My MC's mother lives in the slums of the Outer City sewing clothes to be sold to the nobility by Lord who owns the Slummer's Quarter, making less money than she has to pay the same lord for her rent.  He's like a slumlord back when they were just called lords.  What do I call the physical place in the slums where she goes to sew with other women?

This works!

"A sweatshop is a factory or workshop, especially in the clothing industry, where manual workers are employed at very low wages for long hours under poor conditions and many health risks."

So ... "factory" is probably what you want. Sweat shop was introduced later to describe particularly harsh factories.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweatshop (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweatshop)

Also that's what the place Fatine did her sewing was called in Les Miserables (though I only saw the movie).
Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: The Gem Cutter on February 06, 2018, 05:57:27 AM
In my last story, I kept trying to remember a word for a ruined building, like a castle or such. I ended up with “pile”, but kept thinking there is a fantasy-ish two-syllable word that is escaping me.

And yes, I used thesaurus.com for “ruin.”

Word detectives?
Rubble, hovel, words for things that are left behind in a mess (jumble, tumble, crumble, etc.), remnant, words for the shapes (heaps, mounds, etc); word for its use now: quarry; word for its comparison to other things: warren, maze, boneyard ... that's all I got
Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: cupiscent on February 06, 2018, 06:28:55 AM
What's an archaic word for a sweatshop?

If particularly for women, consider "workhouse (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workhouse)"?
Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: Bradley Darewood on February 09, 2018, 03:38:40 AM
OK stumped again-- what's a medieval word for "vacation"
Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: Skip on February 09, 2018, 03:41:24 AM
Death.
Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: Skip on February 09, 2018, 03:45:44 AM
I bet you were serious. Sorry. ;)

So, no such word. There was festival, in all its variations, but "vacation" has the specific connotation of not only knocking off work (which most were able to do for festival) but also going somewhere other than home. A week away. That wasn't done. Also, note that a feast/festival/carnival refers to the event itself, not to the person attending.

Now, a pilgrimage could be worked, for those so inclined. Especially by 1500 or so there were plenty of folks who headed off to a (European) pilgrimage site and managed to do sightseeing and even a bit of carousing along the way. But it was still called a pilgrimage, however lightly the pilgrim might take it.

That's about as close as I can come.
Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: Bradley Darewood on February 09, 2018, 05:55:15 AM

So like a prince is a wannabe wizard and his dad the king is like "no" and forcibly has his come home to take a break from his training, pretending it's a... vacation? recess? sabbatical?
Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: Yora on February 09, 2018, 05:57:15 AM
In a lot of situations it would innclude a visit to an important religious site, in which case the entire thing could be called a pilgrimage.
Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: MrTea on February 09, 2018, 09:47:10 AM
In the UK we normally use 'holiday' instead of 'vacation'. I believe holiday is a corruption of holy day, so the religious theme would be quite apt.
Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: JMack on February 09, 2018, 10:18:02 AM
Pretending that his mother is sick. Come home, son, before she croaks.

  No need for vacation at all!
Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: Bradley Darewood on February 09, 2018, 10:20:15 AM
His mother's already dead. Also its a phrase used by the King to his son-- his son wants to stay the king doesn't want him there.
Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: MrTea on February 09, 2018, 10:27:59 AM
Does he have some sort of activity for the son? Like an enforced Grand Tour?
Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: Bradley Darewood on February 09, 2018, 10:30:32 AM
No he's kinda on house arrest to make sure he doesn't go back to training.
Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: JMack on February 09, 2018, 10:49:52 AM
His mother's already dead. Also its a phrase used by the King to his son-- his son wants to stay the king doesn't want him there.

His mother came back from the dead! Come see her! Oh, whoops, yeah you can’t go back. You need to go pilgrimage to... the dark lands and bring her back.

Bradley: JMack, whose story are you working on, exactly?
JMack: Drp?
Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: MrTea on February 09, 2018, 10:52:21 AM
Advanced education always has times of recess. A break from study so the student comes back fresh and enthusiastic. Is it the end of term/semester?
Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: Magnus Hedén on February 09, 2018, 11:38:11 AM
Eh, if it's the King who wants someone sent way, he can just send them away. Doesn't need a reason. Or he can give whatever reason. I'm partial to Calvin's dad's constant argument in Calvin & Hobbes: "It builds character."
Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: cupiscent on February 10, 2018, 09:29:43 AM
If it's taking time away from a duty, perhaps "leave of absence"?
Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: Skip on February 10, 2018, 05:01:00 PM
"Come home. You're grounded, mister."

No?

Honestly, there isn't a word for it because it's unique. He's not coming home as part of a break, he's been ordered home by the paterfamilias.

I do think there is a word for a private school break, 19thc early 20thc. Was it in Tom Brown's School Days?  Somewhere. Not Christmas or spring break or anything like that. It was a jargon-y word. So, if this is a normal break and it's simply that Dad says Jr can't return to school, then you might look for a word along those lines.

Otherwise, I'd say Dad either makes a pretext to get Jr to come home, or he simply orders him home.
Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: JMack on February 10, 2018, 05:15:16 PM
"Come home. You're grounded, mister."

No?

Honestly, there isn't a word for it because it's unique. He's not coming home as part of a break, he's been ordered home by the paterfamilias.

I do think there is a word for a private school break, 19thc early 20thc. Was it in Tom Brown's School Days?  Somewhere. Not Christmas or spring break or anything like that. It was a jargon-y word. So, if this is a normal break and it's simply that Dad says Jr can't return to school, then you might look for a word along those lines.

Otherwise, I'd say Dad either makes a pretext to get Jr to come home, or he simply orders him home.

This made me think of “interim”. It rings a bell about time back from school between terms. Or, “hiatus”. Or just use the modern term: “on break”
Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: Bradley Darewood on February 10, 2018, 10:15:58 PM

Yeah I think hiatus or recess is good.  The king isn't going to *say* that his son is home against his will unless he's absolutely pushed to do so, he's going to want to encourage his son to think of it as a recess, despite the fact that it's obviously not.
Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: Ryan Mueller on February 13, 2018, 02:54:59 AM
It wouldn't bother me at all. The only words that throw me out of a story are words with very obvious ties to our cultures, or major anachronisms when it comes to the world's technology.

Like references to trains in a world that doesn't have them.
Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: JMack on February 13, 2018, 10:22:00 AM
It wouldn't bother me at all. The only words that throw me out of a story are words with very obvious ties to our cultures, or major anachronisms when it comes to the world's technology.

Like references to trains in a world that doesn't have them.

Ooh! A touch, a veritable touch! Too bad JRRT isnt alive for you to feel your thrust.
Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: The Gem Cutter on February 13, 2018, 11:50:34 AM
It wouldn't bother me at all. The only words that throw me out of a story are words with very obvious ties to our cultures, or major anachronisms when it comes to the world's technology.

Like references to trains in a world that doesn't have them.

Ooh! A touch, a veritable touch! Too bad JRRT isnt alive for you to feel your thrust.
What are you talking about?
Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: JMack on February 14, 2018, 01:29:16 AM
It wouldn't bother me at all. The only words that throw me out of a story are words with very obvious ties to our cultures, or major anachronisms when it comes to the world's technology.

Like references to trains in a world that doesn't have them.

Ooh! A touch, a veritable touch! Too bad JRRT isnt alive for you to feel your thrust.
What are you talking about?

@The Gem Cutter , there’s an infamous passage in The Hobbit where the narrative voice compares a sound to a train whistle. It’s often cited as a careless anachronism. Alternativ, some have said that it was okay because the narrator is not necessarily in that timeline.

I took Ryan’s comment as referring to that instance.
Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: The Gem Cutter on February 14, 2018, 01:36:44 AM
It wouldn't bother me at all. The only words that throw me out of a story are words with very obvious ties to our cultures, or major anachronisms when it comes to the world's technology.

Like references to trains in a world that doesn't have them.

Ooh! A touch, a veritable touch! Too bad JRRT isnt alive for you to feel your thrust.
What are you talking about?

@The Gem Cutter , there’s an infamous passage in The Hobbit where the narrative voice compares a sound to a train whistle. It’s often cited as a careless anachronism. Alternativ, some have said that it was okay because the narrator is not necessarily in that timeline.

I took Ryan’s comment as referring to that instance.
Ugh. I never, ever noticed. Although I did spot the one Christian-specific term in the LOTR...
Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: JMack on February 14, 2018, 02:11:51 AM
It wouldn't bother me at all. The only words that throw me out of a story are words with very obvious ties to our cultures, or major anachronisms when it comes to the world's technology.

Like references to trains in a world that doesn't have them.

Ooh! A touch, a veritable touch! Too bad JRRT isnt alive for you to feel your thrust.
What are you talking about?

@The Gem Cutter , there’s an infamous passage in The Hobbit where the narrative voice compares a sound to a train whistle. It’s often cited as a careless anachronism. Alternativ, some have said that it was okay because the narrator is not necessarily in that timeline.

I took Ryan’s comment as referring to that instance.
Ugh. I never, ever noticed. Although I did spot the one Christian-specific term in the LOTR...
oh?
Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: The Gem Cutter on February 14, 2018, 02:24:05 AM
It's subtle https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9wS_-AzIU8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9wS_-AzIU8)  ;D
Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: Bradley Darewood on February 14, 2018, 03:16:51 AM
So I looked that up-- devil or demon is often used to describe so many prechristian things (like the princess of hell from the key of Solomon are actually Jinn, far more ancient than Christianity. So I was curious if the words origins we Christian

Quote
The Modern English word devil descends from the Middle English devel, from Old English d?ofol, that in turn represents an early Germanic borrowing of Latin diabolus. This in turn was borrowed from Greek: ???????? diábolos, "slanderer",[5] from ?????????? diabállein, "to slander" from ??? diá, "across, through" and ??????? bállein, "to hurl", probably akin to the Sanskrit gurate, "he lifts up".[6]"

Interestingly while looking that up I found this whole thing on heretics who believe the god of the old testament (who to be fair is pretty cruel) was actually the devil and the new testament is God.
Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: The Gem Cutter on February 14, 2018, 03:23:22 AM
Nah.
Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: Yora on February 14, 2018, 10:33:17 AM
It wouldn't bother me at all. The only words that throw me out of a story are words with very obvious ties to our cultures, or major anachronisms when it comes to the world's technology.

Like references to trains in a world that doesn't have them.

Ooh! A touch, a veritable touch! Too bad JRRT isnt alive for you to feel your thrust.
What are you talking about?

@The Gem Cutter , there’s an infamous passage in The Hobbit where the narrative voice compares a sound to a train whistle. It’s often cited as a careless anachronism. Alternativ, some have said that it was okay because the narrator is not necessarily in that timeline.

I took Ryan’s comment as referring to that instance.
From what I remember, the whole narration of the Hobbit is very contemporary throughout the whole book. That's not a slipup but intentional design.
Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: Bradley Darewood on February 15, 2018, 08:20:23 AM
In a 1600s era fantasy can you have a balaclava?
Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: JMack on February 15, 2018, 10:28:55 AM
In a 1600s era fantasy can you have a balaclava?

Balaika, Lute, Balaclava... it’s all the same, right?  ;D ;D :P
Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: cupiscent on February 15, 2018, 09:31:53 PM
In a 1600s era fantasy can you have a balaclava?

Possibly a better point is: can you have a balaclava in a world that didn't have a Battle of Balaclava? (But wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balaclava_(clothing)) has not just history of the garment, but what it was known as before that battle...)
Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: Bradley Darewood on February 15, 2018, 10:51:40 PM
In a 1600s era fantasy can you have a balaclava?

Possibly a better point is: can you have a balaclava in a world that didn't have a Battle of Balaclava? (But wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balaclava_(clothing)) has not just history of the garment, but what it was known as before that battle...)

Yeah monkey cap doesn't have the same ring to it and no one is going to know what that is...
Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: Bradley Darewood on April 11, 2018, 04:18:02 PM
Ok etymology question: why is a woodland called a hollow??? If anything its more filled up than hollow
Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: Yora on April 20, 2018, 10:43:55 AM
I want to make a new website to track the development of my wilderness Sword & Sorcery stories, and it needs a title.

"Beneath the Leaves of Kaendor" appeals to me, but is "beneath" the correct word here? And is there a more poetic alternative for "leaves"? (And it might be spelled "leafs", have to look that up later.)
Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: Feanor on April 20, 2018, 11:27:47 AM
I want to make a new website to track the development of my wilderness Sword & Sorcery stories, and it needs a title.

"Beneath the Leaves of Kaendor" appeals to me, but is "beneath" the correct word here? And is there a more poetic alternative for "leaves"? (And it might be spelled "leafs", have to look that up later.)
Hmmm... I think the correct word is "underneath".
Also, the only other word I could think of, instead of "leaves" is "petals".

Something like this :

"Underneath the Petals of Kaendor"

But I don't quite like it, maybe you could add a word to leaf instead and make it :

"Underneath the Leaf Blades of Kaendor"




Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: Feanor on April 20, 2018, 11:46:41 AM
Ok etymology question: why is a woodland called a hollow??? If anything its more filled up than hollow

I like those.
I think it refers to the void of human civilization.

It's hollow/empty from the humans or the specific humans pov since nothing of value exists there.
That's my take but I could be wrong.

   -EDIT-

Damn, not only did I double post but i quoted the posts in the wrong order.
Take that system!
Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: Lady Ty on April 20, 2018, 11:49:44 AM
I want to make a new website to track the development of my wilderness Sword & Sorcery stories, and it needs a title.

"Beneath the Leaves of Kaendor" appeals to me, but is "beneath" the correct word here? And is there a more poetic alternative for "leaves"? (And it might be spelled "leafs", have to look that up later.)

You could use ‘below’ , but please don’t spell as leafs.

ETA just saw query re ‘hollow’. It is not a woodland, as such, but a smallish valley between hills. Of course it could have hollow trees in it.  :P
Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: CameronJohnston on April 20, 2018, 12:52:31 PM
Hollow for woodland probably comes from the various dips and hollows of uneven land that make it unsuitable for ploughing and farming, and as such it's left wild. Or at last that would make sense to me.
Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: Feanor on April 20, 2018, 12:56:58 PM
I want to make a new website to track the development of my wilderness Sword & Sorcery stories, and it needs a title.

"Beneath the Leaves of Kaendor" appeals to me, but is "beneath" the correct word here? And is there a more poetic alternative for "leaves"? (And it might be spelled "leafs", have to look that up later.)

You could use ‘below’ , but please don’t spell as leafs.

ETA just saw query re ‘hollow’. It is not a woodland, as such, but a smallish valley between hills. Of course it could have hollow trees in it.  :P

Well, that's what happens when you answer questions on intuition.
You are right Lady Ty the meaning of hollow is not woodland but valley or basin.

I'm guessing the confusion stems from the fact that most valleys/holows in fantasy settings are woodlands.
Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: Yora on April 20, 2018, 06:07:58 PM
You could use ‘below’
Below was my first idea. Beneath was the more fanciful upgrade I came up with later.  8) Though I was wondering if the two are really interchangeable, or whether one of them would sound off to native speakers.
Hmmm... I think the correct word is "underneath".
I can't put my finger on why, but somehow underneath feels like a too "extreme" variant of "under" for standing between trees. Underneath makes me think more of being underground. Is that just my false intuition as a non-native speaker, or does it actually have any such conotation?

But I guess my own intuition was already putting me in the right spot.
Title: Re: Fantasy word choice funtime
Post by: Feanor on April 20, 2018, 07:00:55 PM
You could use ‘below’
Below was my first idea. Beneath was the more fanciful upgrade I came up with later.  8) Though I was wondering if the two are really interchangeable, or whether one of them would sound off to native speakers.
Hmmm... I think the correct word is "underneath".
I can't put my finger on why, but somehow underneath feels like a too "extreme" variant of "under" for standing between trees. Underneath makes me think more of being underground. Is that just my false intuition as a non-native speaker, or does it actually have any such conotation?

But I guess my own intuition was already putting me in the right spot.

I did a google search and found this :

https://www.myenglishteacher.eu/ask/question/difference-between-beneath-under-underneath-and-below/

Seems logical the way it describes each word.
You were half right, your intuition was correct that "underneath"  has the wrong connotation for this phrase but it seems that it's about layers.

Well, English isn't my native language either so when I inform or correct people with false facts  I try to have confidence to keep people, more knowledgeable  than me, guessing.  ;D