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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: ScarletBea on March 21, 2020, 07:38:02 PM

Title: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on March 21, 2020, 07:38:02 PM
For specific stuff...

I'll start by saying I wish all companies were like Holiday Extras: I've just cancelled my airport parking booking in under a minute, receiving a voucher that's valid for 18 months, even though my original booking couldn't really be cancelled.
This way I just lose the plane ticket, as I have zero hopes of the airline fixing the problem.

And I'm annoyed that I went out to the park today and nobody was making any efforts to stay away - on paths I was always the one that moved away!

And I got a leaflet through the letterbox offering to help if I was in quarantine and couldn't do my shopping, or collect prescription, walk the dog, etc. Many of my neighbours are elderly and I bet this will really help :)
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: xiagan on March 21, 2020, 09:28:08 PM
Quarantine with two small kids, day 7: not as bad as expected but you get nothing done even though we're both not at work. The balcony and a time slot in our shared small garden are life savers.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Eclipse on March 21, 2020, 09:52:51 PM
Let’s all go to the beach 🏖 with loads of other people...


https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-england-51988877
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: xiagan on March 21, 2020, 09:57:55 PM
And that's why curfew/lockdown will come to Germany on Monday (I think).
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Eli_Freysson on March 21, 2020, 11:11:52 PM
The Icelandic government has already banned gatherings of 100 people or more, and there are now talks of closing swimming pools and gyms. Curfews are also being ruled out considered.

It is very strange to be living through all this. Agreed?
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Lanko on March 21, 2020, 11:57:35 PM
Scared shitless.

Around ~1200 cases in Brazil with 18 deaths, the vast majority concentrated on the southeastern part, more specifically in Sao Paulo state... where I live, though I'm in a smaller city with great infrastructure with only 6 confirmed cases... but neighbour to the big city. Since here things take forever to be tested, and in this city most people work in the city of Sao Paulo, the epicenter of the virus, you know how this could escalate...

People talking those number are already over the ratio in Italy in the same period (which is in a catastrophic state right now) and that we will easily and vastly pass their numbers.

That's with 1200 cases in the whole country. Then I looked at this:

https://nypost.com/2020/03/21/new-york-state-coronavirus-count-tops-10k-state-rushing-masks-to-city-hospitals/

New York State coronavirus count tops 10K as Cuomo warns young people
The number of new coronavirus cases in New York surged by 3,250 on Saturday, lurching the statewide total to 10,356, according to Gov. Andrew Cuomo, who flatly told young people who think they have some special immunity to the deadly bug: “You are wrong!”

Cuomo did not announce a statewide death total; that tally stood at 56 on Friday."

Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: S. K. Inkslinger on March 22, 2020, 05:03:42 AM
There have already been a decree of departmentstores, gyms, swimming pools, cosmetic businesses, and some other unessential businesses to be closed down in Thailand. Things are heading toward a nation wide lock down, which sucks I guess.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Magnus Hedén on March 22, 2020, 08:16:57 AM
I'm still dumbfounded by at a lot of people's mild reaction to this (and I know, I shouldn't be). Lots of people are still going about their lives because they believe it won't affect them personally, or they just go against established facts and claim that it's "not that bad".

The west was woefully unprepared for this; many countries have been dismantling their epidemic preparation for years with the lovely logic that it hasn't happened for a long time so it's probably fine. Meanwhile, epidemiologists have been warning about this exact event for decades; the next serious pandemic will be a flu-like virus. To deaf ears.

I can only hope people learn important lessons of solidarity and listening to experts from this. That the death and suffering puts a sharp focus on how vulnerable some groups are, and how we should have been better at protecting them. One can hope.

For myself, I'm doing okay. I was already a reclusive weirdo who went out to socialise roughly every other week. Mostly I worry about my parents because my father just finished eight weeks of radiation therapy and so he's at risk. He's doing fine, considering, but catching the virus would be disastrous. I'll be handling shopping for them and they will have to stay away from crowds and social gatherings for who knows how long. So while this should be a time for me to unapologetically continue being who I am, my worry for the rest of my family makes that difficult.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Eli_Freysson on March 22, 2020, 08:36:53 AM
I'm not exactly social myself, but I do go to the gym three times a week, and to the swimming pool four to five times. If they close those down I'm going to be even more shut in than I'm comfortable with. And I need regular trips to the cold tub to keep my knees from hurting.

Also, I woke up tonight due to some noise and had a mild scare: Felt there was a tightness in my chest, but apparently I was imagining it.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Rostum on March 22, 2020, 08:52:26 AM
I am currently self isolating as I have a cough and sore throat. I doubt it is Corona but it hasn't been pleasent. I will be stuck in until next Saturday at least and then expected to jump back into work with face masks on top of our standard PPE.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: NedMarcus on March 22, 2020, 09:55:13 AM
About 50 cases in Taiwan so far. I'm still going to work and doing some other things, but avoiding crowds. No non-citizens can enter the country at the moment, and most of the cases have been citizens returning from the US or China. I'm preparing to work online if it gets worse.

And it's almost impossible to buy a mask or toilet paper.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Cherie on March 22, 2020, 10:09:16 AM
Apart from going to work, I haven't been going out anywhere anyway for the last few months, so not much has changed for me so far. I did venture into town last Saturday briefly, but that was a necessary trip to speak to an estate agent, and complete and sign a couple of forms.

To a certain degree, as many of as possible need to try and carry on as normal. I need to continue the process of selling and buying a house, or I'd have nowhere to live. I need to go to work to pay for said house. The company I work for is trying to carry on as normal as much as possible by sending all but me to work from home - I get to hold the fort in the office, as I need to deal with the paper invoices that come in the post. I'll also get one other on rotation so I'm not completely on my own, and others dropping in to the office now and then when they need paperwork etc.

I don't eat much, so I've enough food to last me another week or so, but I'm dreading trying to do any shopping in the next few days.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on March 22, 2020, 10:11:34 AM
Found this:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ETpN-rTWsAE4O_B?format=jpg&name=small)

Really useful (for me) to have in mind :)
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Eclipse on March 22, 2020, 10:31:11 AM
I see Australians are going to the beach too ...
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: cupiscent on March 22, 2020, 10:32:41 AM
The crowds on Bondi beach were ridiculous. The two most populous Australian states have just announced closure of everything "non-essential" as of Tuesday, so here we really go. The panic-buying has just about abated, though I still don't think you can find toilet paper or pasta or rice for love or money. The next period with my four-year-old and my husband (trying to work) at home will be very long, but better than being hospitalised.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Cherie on March 22, 2020, 11:47:56 AM
I decided to put my big girl pants on and brave Aldi. It wasn't anywhere as near as bad as I feared it would be, I managed a normal shop for me that will see me through for a good two or three weeks. There was plenty of fresh produce: fruit, veg, meat, dairy and bread. It was only the long life pantry items that they hadn't managed to replenish as much; there was no pasta, sauces or tinned tomatoes. Cereals had taken a massive hit, as had the chocolate, toiletries and some freezer items.

I'm hopeful that common sense is starting to prevail, and people have realised that the supermarkets aren't going to shut and leave us all to starve!
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on March 22, 2020, 11:50:52 AM
^ good to know!
Tomorrow I also need to go get some bread, milk and stuff, and I'm going to Lidl, but there's an Aldi nearby too if I'm missing anything.
I have enough normal food in my freezer, and I normally freeze bread, but when I went last week (Sainsbury's) there was hardly any bread :o
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: JMack on March 22, 2020, 12:00:59 PM
Many of you know I had a heart attack a bit more than 2 years ago. So, I’m in the “underlying conditions” club. Yay, me. It’s a good thing I’m working from home, because Mrs. JMack wouldn’t let me go out in public even if I wanted to.

This whole thing is simply unbelievable. Yesterday, for the first time, I was joking with myself: “Wake up! Whew, what a nightmare. So glad that’ll never happen!”

Right now at least, I’m employed, safe, and have my wife here, a ton of family (we had a 20 person zoom the other day), and - of course - you all. It’s spring, too. Imagine this in the deep winter. But, I worry so much for the many people whose lives have been blown to hell by the shut down, and those fighting the virus in the themselves and/or in others.

I vote for a world where no one owes any rent or loan payments to anyone for the next two months.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Cherie on March 22, 2020, 12:30:58 PM
^ good to know!
Tomorrow I also need to go get some bread, milk and stuff, and I'm going to Lidl, but there's an Aldi nearby too if I'm missing anything.
I have enough normal food in my freezer, and I normally freeze bread, but when I went last week (Sainsbury's) there was hardly any bread :o
I have just under half a loaf in the freezer, but defrosted bread is not quite the same when it's fish finger sandwiches you've been craving for the last week or more! There was no loaves of bread at all in our Tesco last weekend.


I'm glad that this didn't hit us at the same time as the storms and floods. It would be spreading so much quicker if people were living in shelters rather than being at home. Although, on reflection, I'm sure there are still many people that are dealing with the fallout from the storms.

Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on March 22, 2020, 12:32:57 PM
Just talked to my parents, they're both 77 so definitely in the risk zone, and especially my mum, with a ton of underlying conditions.
They were telling me they went for a walk yesterday, and at the same time as I know it's important, going out, moving, getting some air and sun - and I know they stay away from people, doing really long deviations to  the path to keep the distance -, I get worried and think they should just stay home.

My cousins are all offering to get them supplies, but my dad still went to the supermarket: he said he wore gloves and they were limiting the number of people inside, but again, I worry.
Argh.

We were talking about refugees and prisons yesterday, Jmack, since then I also saw a piece of news about the homeless :-\

I vote for a world where no one owes any rent or loan payments to anyone for the next two months.
Here loads and loads of banks are writing to people and allowing for mortgage holidays and stuff. I think we're seeing that bank managers are humans too, and nice.

And another thing: we're seeing companies asking people to continue buying online, whatever it is, from groceries to books to takeaways, but... what about the delivery people? They're definitely on the risk front line...
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: JMack on March 22, 2020, 12:57:15 PM
Quote
but... what about the delivery people? They're definitely on the risk front line...

Yes, the lower you are in the worker pay ladder, the more likely it is we’re asking you to keep going to the warehouse, the logistics center, the pizza shop, the military base, the hospital...
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Nora on March 22, 2020, 02:50:35 PM
Also, I woke up tonight due to some noise and had a mild scare: Felt there was a tightness in my chest, but apparently I was imagining it.

Most likely : you weren't. a tight sensation in the chest is a very common sign of anxiety. Don't know what woke you up, but you must have been anxious, and got that sensation, which made you more anxious, etc.
Trust me I had intercostal pains for years due to stress.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Eli_Freysson on March 22, 2020, 05:45:29 PM
Also, I woke up tonight due to some noise and had a mild scare: Felt there was a tightness in my chest, but apparently I was imagining it.

Most likely : you weren't. a tight sensation in the chest is a very common sign of anxiety. Don't know what woke you up, but you must have been anxious, and got that sensation, which made you more anxious, etc.
Trust me I had intercostal pains for years due to stress.

It was a nightmare involving a cave crawling with scorpions.

EDIT: The Icelandic government has just taken things a step further. They're now banning gatherings of twenty people or more, and closing down gyms, swimming pools and the like.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Elfy on March 22, 2020, 08:37:39 PM
The crowds on Bondi beach were ridiculous. The two most populous Australian states have just announced closure of everything "non-essential" as of Tuesday, so here we really go. The panic-buying has just about abated, though I still don't think you can find toilet paper or pasta or rice for love or money. The next period with my four-year-old and my husband (trying to work) at home will be very long, but better than being hospitalised.
I agree with the abating of the panic buying here, although limiting the amount of certain things that people can buy has helped with that. We did find toilet paper, though a week or so back. I think it just depends on when and where you go. It didn't last long on the shelves.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: S. K. Inkslinger on March 23, 2020, 09:04:53 AM
Also, I woke up tonight due to some noise and had a mild scare: Felt there was a tightness in my chest, but apparently I was imagining it.

Most likely : you weren't. a tight sensation in the chest is a very common sign of anxiety. Don't know what woke you up, but you must have been anxious, and got that sensation, which made you more anxious, etc.
Trust me I had intercostal pains for years due to stress.

It was a nightmare involving a cave crawling with scorpions.

EDIT: The Icelandic government has just taken things a step further. They're now banning gatherings of twenty people or more, and closing down gyms, swimming pools and the like.
Goodbye gains. The same thing happened in my country two days prior, which sucked a lot. Fortunately I've got an extra treadmill and punching bag at home, so I still could exercise somewhat during this quarantine period.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Hedin on March 23, 2020, 01:54:59 PM
This has been an interesting two weeks to say the least.  A kid in my daughter's school system was the first student in the state to catch the virus and so our schools shut down a week before everyone else's.  Both me and my wife have "essential" work that requires us to go into work so we've been having to rely on grandparents to watch the girls.  They are ok with this but as of right now the schools are closed until at least May 1 and we're worried that the grandparents are going to get burned out and then what.  I did enjoy as our school system's advice was to not have grandparents watch the kids (which what exactly do you expect working parents to do if the schools and daycares are closing down) and we had my mom watch our girls right after she got back from a cruise.

Luckily no one in my family is sick (from this anyways) and my wife and I are in safe jobs that even in the worst of economic disasters we should be fine so for us its really just a super inconvenience.  However I know there are a lot people who are really going to be hurt by this and I'm just more annoyed that there isn't a proper safety net to really help those people.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on March 23, 2020, 02:05:29 PM
Hey Hedin, nice to hear from you!
That's a really bad situation...
Here in the UK, even though schools closed officially, they remain open for the children of people in key/essential jobs, so that helps - @Nighteyes would be able to explain better/confirm.

I hope things work out for you



I went to the supermarket at lunchtime (local Lidl) and it wasn't that bad: they had all I needed and the only thing different was that I was getting 4 packs of longlife milk (my usual) and they only let me get 2, but no problem.
I almost managed to stay away from people, but I hate those that see me moving away and yet continue to walk in my direction, oblivious: I just realised I get super anxious by being near others, and I'm still trying to calm down now :-\
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Bender on March 23, 2020, 02:16:30 PM
Took dog out for a walk and it's deserted. Only a few cars about and fewer others walking their dog. Looks very post-apocalypsy.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Magnus Hedén on March 23, 2020, 02:17:30 PM
Was just out on a weekly shopping run for my parents and myself. Most people aren't taking this seriously. There was a woman coughing out on the street, kind of partially onto her hand. I distanced myself then told her to cough into her elbow. She looked at me like I was quite mad, then said something angrily as I walked on. Lots of people in the store not keeping their distance. Another guy wanted to ask something about the parking lot and kept approaching me until I told him to please keep his distance. He just looked confused. Some people pushed past me by the cash register and I couldn't go anywhere to get away. Should have told them off too, tbh.

I was one of two people I saw in a total of four stores who was wearing plastic gloves. I used new ones for each store, and disinfected between runs.

Oh well, I'm back, and I disinfected everything with dishwashing liquid, and now I'm not going for another week. Hopefully by then, the coin has dropped for more people.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on March 23, 2020, 04:33:26 PM
Scared shitless.

Around ~1200 cases in Brazil with 18 deaths, the vast majority concentrated on the southeastern part, more specifically in Sao Paulo state... where I live, though I'm in a smaller city with great infrastructure with only 6 confirmed cases... but neighbour to the big city. Since here things take forever to be tested, and in this city most people work in the city of Sao Paulo, the epicenter of the virus, you know how this could escalate...

People talking those number are already over the ratio in Italy in the same period (which is in a catastrophic state right now) and that we will easily and vastly pass their numbers.

That's with 1200 cases in the whole country. Then I looked at this:

https://nypost.com/2020/03/21/new-york-state-coronavirus-count-tops-10k-state-rushing-masks-to-city-hospitals/

New York State coronavirus count tops 10K as Cuomo warns young people
The number of new coronavirus cases in New York surged by 3,250 on Saturday, lurching the statewide total to 10,356, according to Gov. Andrew Cuomo, who flatly told young people who think they have some special immunity to the deadly bug: “You are wrong!”

Cuomo did not announce a statewide death total; that tally stood at 56 on Friday."
@Lanko, your president is a ^%%^& :-X

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/23/brazils-jair-bolsonaro-says-coronavirus-crisis-is-a-media-trick (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/23/brazils-jair-bolsonaro-says-coronavirus-crisis-is-a-media-trick)
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: hexa on March 23, 2020, 07:55:50 PM
There is a new word, "Covidiot."  A covidiot is a person that does not take the covid seriously
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Eclipse on March 23, 2020, 08:14:18 PM
https://www.expressandstar.com/news/business/2020/03/23/watch-huge-queues-at-black-country-mcdonalds-ahead-of-monday-closure/

Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: hexa on March 23, 2020, 08:19:29 PM
Australian police say that toilet paper, "is not Mad Max beyond Thunderdome"

https://www.expressandstar.com/news/uk-news/2020/03/08/women-charged-after-supermarket-toilet-paper-fight/
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on March 23, 2020, 09:34:01 PM
https://www.expressandstar.com/news/business/2020/03/23/watch-huge-queues-at-black-country-mcdonalds-ahead-of-monday-closure/
:o :o
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: The Gem Cutter on March 24, 2020, 03:06:55 AM
Someone in the Cave of Wonders apparently touched something other than the lamp and POOF! Coronavirus.

I've been busy and continue to work from home, but mostly I am monitoring things and ... being me.

My preparations over the last two years are paying off. I have a month's worth of food for myself and my family (wife plus 3). 2 of my three sons no longer live with me, so that means I can last most of the summer. I have food,  the means to defend my neighborhood, communications, medical gear (mostly itchy-owie stuff and trauma kit), and a new big old suburbitank with which to rule the highways in the post-apocalyptic landscape.

I hope you all are well. My oldest son was diagnosed as having the virus today, but other than that, me and mine are doing well. I hope you are all doing what you can to prepare and remain healthy.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Lanko on March 24, 2020, 07:07:11 AM
Scared shitless.

Around ~1200 cases in Brazil with 18 deaths, the vast majority concentrated on the southeastern part, more specifically in Sao Paulo state... where I live, though I'm in a smaller city with great infrastructure with only 6 confirmed cases... but neighbour to the big city. Since here things take forever to be tested, and in this city most people work in the city of Sao Paulo, the epicenter of the virus, you know how this could escalate...

People talking those number are already over the ratio in Italy in the same period (which is in a catastrophic state right now) and that we will easily and vastly pass their numbers.

That's with 1200 cases in the whole country. Then I looked at this:

https://nypost.com/2020/03/21/new-york-state-coronavirus-count-tops-10k-state-rushing-masks-to-city-hospitals/

New York State coronavirus count tops 10K as Cuomo warns young people
The number of new coronavirus cases in New York surged by 3,250 on Saturday, lurching the statewide total to 10,356, according to Gov. Andrew Cuomo, who flatly told young people who think they have some special immunity to the deadly bug: “You are wrong!”

Cuomo did not announce a statewide death total; that tally stood at 56 on Friday."
@Lanko, your president is a ^%%^& :-X

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/23/brazils-jair-bolsonaro-says-coronavirus-crisis-is-a-media-trick (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/23/brazils-jair-bolsonaro-says-coronavirus-crisis-is-a-media-trick)

This is nothing, he didn't like football matches got cancelled, called governors that were locking down their states "lunatics" and was outraged that churches were included on the list to not realize gatherings of people.

Half his ministers are actually infected and in quarantine, and he's using masks, yet he continued to claim it's just "some cold". From other sources some say he is just saying things like that to downplay it and to not cause panic, but no one is an idiot, everyone knows what's going on in the world, so he just looks like an idiot.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Eli_Freysson on March 24, 2020, 07:26:00 AM
I just listened to the morning news on the radio. Iceland is now at almost 600 confirmed infections, 7000 people are in quarantine, and an older woman with underlying health issues has just become the first Icelander to die of this.

I hope you all are well. My oldest son was diagnosed as having the virus today, but other than that, me and mine are doing well. I hope you are all doing what you can to prepare and remain healthy.

Best wishes for you, your son, and your family.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on March 24, 2020, 07:50:03 AM
My oldest son was diagnosed as having the virus today,
I hope his symptoms are mild and he recovers quickly!

As for working from home, I need to focus and get a sort of routine, and stop getting distracted by random things ::)
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: JMack on March 24, 2020, 11:04:45 AM
@The Gem Cutter, I’ve been wondering about how you’re,doing. I’m glad to hear from you.
And all your prepperness came me a sort-of-jealous chuckle.  :)
Prayers for your son. The odds say he’ll be fine, but invoking a little divine razzle-dazzle is something I can do.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on March 24, 2020, 01:02:35 PM
I just got a text from the government telling me to stay home!
Where did they get my number?
I normally get texts from my health centre, so they must have used that database...

And I learnt a new word: "furlough"
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Magnus Hedén on March 24, 2020, 01:48:15 PM
I believe most countries have some sort of system in place where they can send messages to every phone registered in the country. For example, phones go off all over the US for Amber alerts (missing children). So I'm guessing it's something like that.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: The Gem Cutter on March 25, 2020, 03:27:05 AM
Alex went from a mild fever and nothing else to extreme fatigue. We remain under house arrest. Our long-acquired (not hoarded at the last minute at everyone else's expense) larder remains well stocked and we're actually eating better than normal, I think. No junk food. No excess. I ... I think we're 'adulting'
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: The Gem Cutter on March 25, 2020, 03:34:18 AM
I don't know what kind of response has been mounted in the various European countries, but I am absolutely livid at the Government and a few of my acquaintances whose blase attitude has done nothing but make people more prone to consider this whole thing an exaggerated chest cold. This is killing people.

As Captain Analogy, I have adopted this approach to describe our situation: The water at the beach has flowed out. Lifeguards yell for people to run, and we do, calling on everyone to do the same. Fools call us names and crack jokes at the stranded sea life. Meanwhile, the water has paused and now begins to return.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: hexa on March 25, 2020, 03:40:34 AM
There is a tsunami watch for Hawaii

https://www.staradvertiser.com/2020/03/24/breaking-news/tsunami-watch-issued-for-hawaii-after-7-8-magnitude-earthquake-off-kuril-islands/
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: The Gem Cutter on March 25, 2020, 03:51:11 AM
I had no idea my analogies could evoke geological events until this moment. Now, what to do with this power?
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on March 25, 2020, 07:40:18 AM
FYI @Nighteyes is ill with what seems to be the virus :(

Let us all send our good vibes to him! :-*
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Magnus Hedén on March 25, 2020, 07:55:30 AM
Let's hope Nighteyes has a full recovery!

Part of me wishes I would get infected so I can get immune... but I also know that's stupid because even for me, a healthy person of 40, there's a risk of deadly complications. And of course, I need to be able to look after my parents.

So, everyone, remember to follow these instructions:

(https://i.imgur.com/cJt0aey.jpg)

Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on March 25, 2020, 09:42:59 AM
^  ;D

Following the funny side of the situation, I'm now discovering how the rest of the world lives by the articles and complaints that I see now, "how to live in lockdown".

Apart from saturdays, when I go out here and there, and working from home continuosly, nothing really changed in my life ;D

Is there really such a huge amount of interaction going on all the time?
Is this the revenge of the introverts?
 8)
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Magnus Hedén on March 25, 2020, 11:12:18 AM
To me, an introvert, it's a bit like I'm sleeping in a couch I'm too tall for: even though I usually sleep curled up a bit so I don't use the space, I still sleep poorly in that couch because I'm aware that the space isn't there for me to stretch out.

That's how social distancing feels. Suddenly, the possibility to reach out isn't there anymore, and I'm all the more aware of the absence, even though I normally could go for two weeks without any big social engagements.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: NedMarcus on March 25, 2020, 11:37:58 AM
I wish Nighteyes a good recovery.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Nighteyes on March 25, 2020, 12:57:43 PM
Cheers - if it is COVID-19 I have a mild version.  In fact it feels more like tonsilitis.  Could also just be gernal exhaustion - (the last few weeks have been so draining: physically, mentally and emotionally.)
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: S. K. Inkslinger on March 25, 2020, 01:28:55 PM
To me, an introvert, it's a bit like I'm sleeping in a couch I'm too tall for: even though I usually sleep curled up a bit so I don't use the space, I still sleep poorly in that couch because I'm aware that the space isn't there for me to stretch out.

That's how social distancing feels. Suddenly, the possibility to reach out isn't there anymore, and I'm all the more aware of the absence, even though I normally could go for two weeks without any big social engagements.

This couldn't have been more accurate, hahah. It's the absolute case for me.  ;D

Get well soon @Nighteyes. Sending you all the good vibes and well wishes!
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Rostum on March 25, 2020, 02:16:49 PM
Quote
Cheers - if it is COVID-19 I have a mild version.  In fact it feels more like tonsilitis.  Could also just be gernal exhaustion - (the last few weeks have been so draining: physically, mentally and emotionally.)

Sounds like what I had. Very sore tonsils, cough and waking up after 3-4 hours with lots of mucus in my lungs I had to clear before I could sleep again. I was very tired but had almost no temperature and no headaches. To clear the mucus on my tonsils and throat I gargled with 100% proof Vodka. This certainly cleared the muck out of my throat but probably wouldn't get medical approval.

Get well soon @Nighteyes. Welcome back @The Gem Cutter and Wishing Alex a speedy recovery as well.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Eclipse on March 25, 2020, 02:28:10 PM
My M.O.T is due by the 22 April

I’ve booked the car in for the 6th of April before we had lockdown.

What happens now?
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Bender on March 25, 2020, 02:40:49 PM
It's so widespread in NY that everyone who's been there have been asked to self isolate for 14 days.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on March 25, 2020, 03:10:35 PM
My M.O.T is due by the 22 April

I’ve booked the car in for the 6th of April before we had lockdown.

What happens now?
@Eclipse, it seems that you get a 6-month extension, so you get until 22 October to do your MOT.
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-8150599/Motorists-granted-six-month-exemption-MOT-testing-30-March.html (https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-8150599/Motorists-granted-six-month-exemption-MOT-testing-30-March.html)

So I'd call the garage to cancel, and that's even if there's anyone there to answer your calls.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: JMack on March 25, 2020, 11:25:08 PM
MOT?
Please translate to American
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Rostum on March 26, 2020, 01:30:10 AM
Quote
MOT? Please translate to American

Ministry of Transport (yeah I know) An annual cerificate of roadworthyness requied to drive on the highway and a document you cannot renew your vehicle tax or insurance without.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: xiagan on March 26, 2020, 09:21:52 AM
Quote
MOT? Please translate to American

Ministry of Transport (yeah I know) An annual cerificate of roadworthyness requied to drive on the highway and a document you cannot renew your vehicle tax or insurance without.
Oh yeah, the TÜV.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Eli_Freysson on March 26, 2020, 09:42:34 AM
Huh. There's a neologism in Iceland.

"Óviti" is an old Icelandic noun that basically means something between senseless and fool. It's mostly used for children so young they can't be trusted not to hurt themselves.

Now "cóviti" is being used for people who aren't taking the virus seriously and taking proper precautions. Because "covid". I like it.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on March 26, 2020, 10:34:12 AM
I've lived here for 13 years and I didn't know that MOT was really just 'Ministry of Transport', I thought the acronym meant something else ;D For me it was just the certificate...

Eli, I've seen "covidiot", I think it's the same as your "cóviti"!
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Nora on March 26, 2020, 02:31:40 PM
Had to go to the hospital for shots. It was odd... Main thoroughfares are deserted except for buses that run on a Saturday schedule :

(https://i.ibb.co/PrPx7tN/IMG-20200325-134428.jpg)

(https://i.ibb.co/bdsVdgd/IMG-20200325-134757.jpg)

Lots of people cycling, jogging, walking their dogs... It was surprisingly busy. Saw like 7 people in my usually deserted st. Two of them were lads playing cards in their front garden tbf.
Shots were devastating. My arm is swollen around the rabies one, and I got shivers, massive dizziness, total exhaustion... Had a real bad night, cannot wait to go nap!

Now though, gotta say, one great side of this is that the memes are fantastic quality!!

(https://i.ibb.co/qms6RPQ/uk.jpg)

(https://i.ibb.co/tYBZWyF/90672940-215801392819506-2693935867533197312-n.jpg)

That last one still makes me chuckle.

Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on March 26, 2020, 03:40:35 PM
Those are so funny ;D
And you look really well protected, hehe, it could be anyone under all those layers! Why do you need those shots now, were they essential? I hope you improve soon
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Cherie on March 26, 2020, 04:46:22 PM
We've just had confirmation our sites will be closing as from tomorrow, office staff will be working from home next week (I at least need to pay the guys who are working this week), then we're taking a week's holiday.

After that, we're past the initial 3 week lockdown estimate, and if we're not back at work, it'll be this Furlough business. Means at a time when I'm desperately trying to save every single penny prior to buying my house, I'll be losing a few hundred a month.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Eli_Freysson on March 27, 2020, 10:20:27 AM
Another neologism:

"Sóttkví" is Icelandic for quarantine. "Kvíði" means anxiety. And now people have "sóttkvíði".

I like it.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Lanko on March 27, 2020, 03:21:28 PM
Our president wants people to go back to work (even against orders of local governors).

The Economist called him BolsoNero, yes, named after the roman emperor that burned Rome. The guy doesn't seem to understand what's really going on (suspecting he even has it). There is talk and rumours of an impeachment being worked on.

Meanwhile, just heard Boris Johnson confirmed positive for COVID.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: hexa on March 27, 2020, 04:39:51 PM
England's Minister of Health also has Covid.  As well as 500 New York policemen
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Nora on March 27, 2020, 04:45:44 PM
Those are so funny ;D
And you look really well protected, hehe, it could be anyone under all those layers! Why do you need those shots now, were they essential? I hope you improve soon

Yes, they're essential because I had already started the courses. They don't recommend you stop mid-way, and that would also have meant me throwing several hundred pounds to the wind for nothing. No way I was letting this happen. I'm still going to Japan asap... And if everything conspires against me and I end up going somewhere else, I have a life time of rabies immunity (which means only two more shots after a bite/scratch, instead of a full course +immunoglobulin), and with boosters, I'll have 5 and 10 years of both Jap encephalitis, which will come in handy when I finally get to go to Japan! If somehow not next year... Then some other time, sadly as a tourist.
The mask isn't for particles so much as to keep myself from touching my face as I peal off the skin of my lips as a nervous tic, and I've been doing a lot of that.

England's Minister of Health also has Covid.  As well as 500 New York policemen

Bojo has it. Prime irony.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Rostum on March 27, 2020, 09:22:52 PM
This is a week old now so things may well have moved and changed but it is a worthwhile hour spent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Hs2KKczjYA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Hs2KKczjYA)

TLDW. Worst Case Scenario in the UK 80% infection rate and 500,000 deaths through this year and next winter.
In whatever language is used to describe it the health service is overwhelmed at the point it becomes necessary to triage patients. This does not mean the end of functional care just the end of equal treatment for all hospital cases. Likeliehood of further mutation to the virus but very unlikely to make it more deadly. Mortality rate and critical illness rate is way higher in men. Probably for the same reasons men die younger as most at risk are the elderly and imfirm.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: hexa on March 27, 2020, 09:32:14 PM
With all due respect, scientists are inventing vaccines and medicines for covid.  The pandemic will not last 2 years
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Rostum on March 28, 2020, 12:08:45 AM
Quote
With all due respect, scientists are inventing vaccines and medicines for covid.  The pandemic will not last 2 years

The interview is with Dr Michael Head an epidemiologist and Senior Research Fellow in Global Health at the University of Southampton. This guy crunches numbers for modellers to predict and plan.

On Vaccines he said the first vaccine is at least a year away and early adopted vaccines are usually not as effective as later versions.

I have no idea how long Corvid19 will last and hopefully we won't get a second wave as with the Spanish Flu but this is takeaway from the conversation if you watch it. I suspect the breakdown of pretty much everything would occur before those numbers were realised anyway.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: NedMarcus on March 28, 2020, 01:24:16 AM
With all due respect, scientists are inventing vaccines and medicines for covid.  The pandemic will not last 2 years

I hope not too, but it's happened before (Spanish flu in 1918-19), and it isn't certain that a vaccine or medicine will be developed by a particular date. Also, viruses mutate, so it may come back that way. It's very uncertain.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Lady Ty on March 28, 2020, 03:28:15 AM
More recent than that- AIDS
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Skip on March 28, 2020, 04:19:53 AM
With all due respect, scientists are inventing vaccines and medicines for covid.  The pandemic will not last 2 years

There are vaccines and medicines for plain ordinary flu virus. Yet it comes around and kills every single year for decades. Because it mutates. There's no reason at all to think this one is the non-mutating variety. After all, it isn't called Covid-1, it's called Covid-19.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on March 28, 2020, 11:49:41 AM
I'm turning into a recluse...
I went for a walk+farm shop and my heart jumped and started racing every time I saw a person, worse if it was a couple. I had to consciously make myself stop and calm down and breathe slowly.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Rostum on March 28, 2020, 12:00:49 PM
I return to work Tomorrow and have hardly been out in the last two weeks. I need to food shop and get some stuff done on the bike. Going out now seems a little daunting as societal rules have actually changed since i last had to interact with anyone.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: xiagan on March 28, 2020, 12:54:15 PM
After all, it isn't called Covid-1, it's called Covid-19.
Because it was discovered (or started its spree) in 2019. But yeah, there are other Corona viruses and they have already found mutations of Sars CoV-2.
Btw, Covid-19 is the disease and Sars CoV-2 the virus. Like you get Aids from the HI-virus.

It will change the world as we know it - lets hope not only to the bad.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Eclipse on March 28, 2020, 01:28:13 PM
Do you know if there is a time limit on how  long we can have a walk/run/cycle outdoors for.

I’ve heard on the radio there is a 2km distance rule from your home. Not sure if that’s correct seems a bit short.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on March 28, 2020, 02:35:07 PM
Do you know if there is a time limit on how  long we can have a walk/run/cycle outdoors for.

I’ve heard on the radio there is a 2km distance rule from your home. Not sure if that’s correct seems a bit short.

I tried searching, but the official site doesn't mention any distances, it only says "one form of exercise a day - for example a run, walk, or cycle - alone or with members of your household".
I think the objective is to walk from home, not drive somewhere and then do the walk there. I guess 2km from home still lets you take a very long walk, if you think of a circle with your home in the centre and a radius of 2km...
For example when I run/walk my 5km I'm never further away from my home more than 2km, I think, it's just a circular route.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Rostum on March 28, 2020, 08:23:04 PM
They don't want specifics or they will have to police it. Not wanting nieghbours phoning up the police because someone was out for an hour and a half not an hour or went further than suggested. Real regulation may come in time but lets hope not.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Cherie on March 28, 2020, 08:57:07 PM
It's bad enough as it is on some of my local Facebook groups with people bitching about how many people are going out shopping together, or the kids congregating in the parks, or people going out twice in one day.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Nora on March 29, 2020, 12:02:07 AM
With all due respect, scientists are inventing vaccines and medicines for covid.  The pandemic will not last 2 years

There are vaccines and medicines for plain ordinary flu virus. Yet it comes around and kills every single year for decades. Because it mutates. There's no reason at all to think this one is the non-mutating variety. After all, it isn't called Covid-1, it's called Covid-19.

There is reason to think it. Scientists think that's the case already. They believe it's a stable virus. They can't be 100% sure, but no need to be alarmist.

https://www.businessinsider.com/new-coronavirus-mutates-slowly-vaccine-could-be-long-lasting-2020-3?r=US&IR=T

Covid 19 is not its real name either. It's actually called SARS-CoV-2. The 19 stands for 2019, not 19th in a row or whatever. (Xiagan beat me to that)

If you want to write anything about the virus, then please do your homework properly Skip, as posting such misinformation is bad for everyone all around. There are plenty of good channels I can recommend you if you want to keep up to date on the science day by day.

Also would like to point out the flu is an Influenza virus, and Coronaviruses are the ones behind the common cold. No point comparing chickens and cows, though the symptoms are in the same chest area.

With all due respect, scientists are inventing vaccines and medicines for covid.  The pandemic will not last 2 years

I hope not too, but it's happened before (Spanish flu in 1918-19), and it isn't certain that a vaccine or medicine will be developed by a particular date. Also, viruses mutate, so it may come back that way. It's very uncertain.

Please do your research on the Spanish Flu if you want to talk about it too.

Quote
This increased severity has been attributed to the circumstances of the First World War.[91] In civilian life, natural selection favors a mild strain. Those who get very ill stay home, and those mildly ill continue with their lives, preferentially spreading the mild strain. In the trenches, natural selection was reversed. Soldiers with a mild strain stayed where they were, while the severely ill were sent on crowded trains to crowded field hospitals, spreading the deadlier virus. The second wave began, and the flu quickly spread around the world again. Consequently, during modern pandemics, health officials pay attention when the virus reaches places with social upheaval (looking for deadlier strains of the virus).[92]

The fact that most of those who recovered from first-wave infections had become immune showed that it must have been the same strain of flu. This was most dramatically illustrated in Copenhagen, which escaped with a combined mortality rate of just 0.29% (0.02% in the first wave and 0.27% in the second wave) because of exposure to the less-lethal first wave.[93] For the rest of the population, the second wave was far more deadly; the most vulnerable people were those like the soldiers in the trenches – adults who were young and fit.[94]

It's a bad comparison, you shouldn't make it. Even then, it shows the people who'd survived the first wave were immune to the second wave. We're also in a genral worldwide lockdown, not a world war, so the likelyhood of the virus being in a situation where it can mutate is very unlikely. Think about it. Even if ms Jones sees the virus mutates in her, and she dies very suddenly, so what? The virus is very contagious, most likely her entire household already has or had a variant of it. Most likely she's isolating at home. Even if she makes it to hospital before she dies, by now she'd be taken through special triage, where there are other people with covid there, and every country is on full red alert, if a sub strain became apparent with people dying too soon, they'd be on it.

Even if it does happen and a deadlier second wave comes, having spent all the months prior worrying about it serves nothing but to stress you out, and stress is bad for the immune system, so leave N1H1 alone. It's like wondering if Ebola could become airborne. Unproductive stress. Be proactive : stay home, wash your hands, wear a mask/gloves outside to help limit how much you touch your face, stay away from people you don't share a household with, and if you're bored, reach out to local charities or your ministry of health to talk about volunteering, which can come in the form of calling people everyday who are at risk of loneliness.

I'm sorry if I come across as preachy, but I don't think a thread about covid-19 should be used to spread misinformation or fearmongering, however involuntarily that may be done.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Elfy on March 29, 2020, 12:15:21 AM
Do you know if there is a time limit on how  long we can have a walk/run/cycle outdoors for.

I’ve heard on the radio there is a 2km distance rule from your home. Not sure if that’s correct seems a bit short.
Heard a story from a person in France who was stopped by police while going for a walk and told that he was not to go more than a kilometre from his place of origin.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Nora on March 29, 2020, 12:31:06 AM
Do you know if there is a time limit on how  long we can have a walk/run/cycle outdoors for.

I’ve heard on the radio there is a 2km distance rule from your home. Not sure if that’s correct seems a bit short.
Heard a story from a person in France who was stopped by police while going for a walk and told that he was not to go more than a kilometre from his place of origin.

UK police used drones to shame people taking scenic walks in Lake District. It's a conflicting thing. Obviously they're completely alone in the wild. They're not transmitting anything. By coming there they're also not clogging the local park (and mine is a pretty busy place rn...), but also they have a point : everyone starts thinking that, and next thing you know everyone is doing it. it's hard to keep people from having fun, but if you leave some daring ones to do it, then more will come out, thinking it's ok. We're leggit surrendering freedom for the good of the people...
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: NedMarcus on March 29, 2020, 12:59:23 AM

With all due respect, scientists are inventing vaccines and medicines for covid.  The pandemic will not last 2 years

I hope not too, but it's happened before (Spanish flu in 1918-19), and it isn't certain that a vaccine or medicine will be developed by a particular date. Also, viruses mutate, so it may come back that way. It's very uncertain.

Please do your research on the Spanish Flu if you want to talk about it too.


I did some research, and the reports I read said that there were second and third waves of the flu. And that it stretched into a second year. That was the only way I was comparing that illness to this one.

Many viruses mutate. Flu is known to mutate. I honestly don't know what I said that is controversial. I'm not trying to be alarmist, I don't see any point in that. But to suggest that everything will be alright within a year because the scientists will soon invent a cure could easily give false confidence. Just because some politicians suggest this is the case doesn't mean it is.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Bender on March 29, 2020, 04:46:56 AM
Quote
The United States now accounts for the highest number of coronavirus infections of any nation, recording more than 122,000 confirmed cases on Saturday. The death toll in the country surged past 2,000, more than double the figure from two days ago.

Idiot in chief wanted to quarantine tristate are (NY, NJ, CT) and backed off on it...but still want to open the country up by Easter. Talk about being clueless.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on March 29, 2020, 01:03:56 PM
My brain simply doesn't compute: almost 1000 deaths in a day, here, there and everywhere...
I'm in such awe of everyone who's still working so that people have care and food :'(

People normally say that you find out who you really are in times of crisis, and what I'm discovering about me is sobering: I just can't go out and help, I'm too scared and anxious.
Is getting in touch with people enough, support through words? It'll have to be, it's all I'm able to do...
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Eli_Freysson on March 29, 2020, 02:00:13 PM

People normally say that you find out who you really are in times of crisis, and what I'm discovering about me is sobering: I just can't go out and help, I'm too scared and anxious.
Is getting in touch with people enough, support through words? It'll have to be, it's all I'm able to do...

Feeling helpless in the face of momentous problems is a universal human trait. As is focusing on the people in our immediate circle. Let's remember that our minds evolved to cope with living in small tribes. Trying to take in vast issues is inherently a problem for us.

Since most of us aren't health care professionals, the best we can do is abide by the social isolation rules, wash our hands, and not actively contribute to the problem.

And keeping in touch with the people you know and helping them feel just a little bit better, reminding them of human contact and normalcy and caring isn't small. It's great. We just tend to forget how important human kindness is.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: JMack on March 29, 2020, 02:22:57 PM
I’m frustrated by being in the at-risk category of those with heart disease. It really puts in-person assistance to others off the table. Mrs. JMack and I talk about folks we could help financially, but I suspect no one will want to accept it, even they’re hurting. Which leaves contributing to a charity. I’ll have to find out what the Red Cross is doing these days.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Eclipse on March 29, 2020, 03:35:53 PM
@JMack

https://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=content.view&cpid=7779
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Nora on March 29, 2020, 04:08:38 PM

With all due respect, scientists are inventing vaccines and medicines for covid.  The pandemic will not last 2 years

I hope not too, but it's happened before (Spanish flu in 1918-19), and it isn't certain that a vaccine or medicine will be developed by a particular date. Also, viruses mutate, so it may come back that way. It's very uncertain.

Please do your research on the Spanish Flu if you want to talk about it too.


I did some research, and the reports I read said that there were second and third waves of the flu. And that it stretched into a second year. That was the only way I was comparing that illness to this one.

Many viruses mutate. Flu is known to mutate. I honestly don't know what I said that is controversial. I'm not trying to be alarmist, I don't see any point in that. But to suggest that everything will be alright within a year because the scientists will soon invent a cure could easily give false confidence. Just because some politicians suggest this is the case doesn't mean it is.

You said nothing controversial, you're just using wrong and invalid comparisons that lead to your and other people's worry.
Ok, let's say you researched N1H1. And then so what? Our current pandemic is for a Coronavirus, NOT
an Influenza virus.

It's like we're all in a communal garden discussing what's up with the potatoes, and you come on over and explain what we should expect due to what you've read up on carrots and the carrot famines of 1920!

Yes, N1H1 and SARS-covid2 are both viruses, and they affect your respiratory tract, like carrots and potatoes are both veggies and both the root type. But they're not the same thing beyond that and comparing them is pointless.
Not only because of genetical differences, but as I linked, a large part of what made N1H1 so bad was the societal factor. We don't have WW1 on our hands, we don't rely on paper newspapers and radio, and we all are on lockdown. N1H1 also killed young people in their 20s and 30s instead of the elderly, drowning them in fluids and cytokine storms. It's not what we're observing here.

You're drawing conclusions on a virus still under study by comparing it to another virus not even of its family. By doing this you're making false statements and hence fearmongering for no valid reason. There are plenty of valid reasons to be afraid of what covid-19 is doing to our healthcare system as it is.

Yes we all know viruses can mutate, we also know so far scientist aren't too worried about covid-19. Yes we all know it may come back in a new wave before we have a vaccine. But a large number of the population carried it already and will still get infected, meaning any second wave will not hit them. EVEN if a second wave or a third happens, there is no knowing what the effect might be, what measures will be taken then, and whether healthcare systems will be better prepared from still running on high alert.

Worrying people over poorly chosen crossovers helps no one.

If you consider yourself erudite on N1H1 I then invite you to document yourself further on viruses, which are an entire order of life on earth, and not variations on the flu.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Skip on March 29, 2020, 06:17:16 PM
FWIW, nothing in this thread has led me to worry. The facts coming from the health authorities are quite sufficient to create concern. Nor do I see any signs from others on this thread having an omg moment as a result of a post here. We have presidents and prime ministers who are more adept than any of us at creating omg moments. All I've seen is a few inept comparisons (mine included).

Here's raising a glass to ad hominem patience and kindness.


Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on March 29, 2020, 08:04:20 PM
Alright, some people feel more comfortable with plain perfect facts, others are better with emotions, we're all in this together, trying to make sense of a senseless thing - I hope no one is upset about posts here, we're all trying our best.

At least there are no conspiracy theories, like what my dad tries to tell me over the phone ::) ;D
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: JMack on March 29, 2020, 08:17:54 PM
Alright, some people feel more comfortable with plain perfect facts, others are better with emotions, we're all in this together, trying to make sense of a senseless thing - I hope no one is upset about posts here, we're all trying our best.

At least there are no conspiracy theories, like what my dad tries to tell me over the phone ::) ;D

I heard the virus is extraterrestrial.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Bender on March 30, 2020, 03:08:33 AM
I've hit a mental threshold. Stopped reading about the Virus for 2 days now. Just living my life. Ignorance IS bliss!
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: S. K. Inkslinger on March 30, 2020, 10:59:55 AM
I've hit a mental threshold. Stopped reading about the Virus for 2 days now. Just living my life. Ignorance IS bliss!

I agreed with this. Since we're all in a lockdown anyway, now all anyone can do is just duck under their covers until this whole thing blows over. Reading about stressful things doesn't help my mental health in the least bit, that's for sure.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Rostum on March 30, 2020, 01:58:50 PM
Ok just some of my sort of virus related thoughts.

Control measures will be in place for much longer than most people think.
This is probably the end of Cinema as we know it.
Air pollution levels will fall much lower than predicted.
Divorce levels will soar.
Birth rates will be the highest in the first world for 50 years.
There will be a surge in publishing.
Many of the people who are relevent on social media wont be after this is over.

5 minutes thought anyone got any more or disagree enough to respond?
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on March 30, 2020, 03:00:50 PM
Control measures will be in place for much longer than most people think.
Agree - better to be safe than sorry!

Quote
This is probably the end of Cinema as we know it.
Oh, why do you say that? I know there will be blips, but shouldn't the industry recover next year?

Quote
Air pollution levels will fall much lower than predicted.
I'm not even sure they're predicting anything, I think they're just tracking the measures and seeing the super low numbers.

Quote
Divorce levels will soar.
Birth rates will be the highest in the first world for 50 years.
I'd thought and seen this sentiment before - so true ;D

Quote
There will be a surge in publishing.
Hurrah!

Quote
Many of the people who are relevent on social media wont be after this is over.
I'm totally not the right person to comment on this, as I have zero understanding of how that works, and can't for the life of me see why certain people that do nothing have so many followers ;D

I'll add a couple:
- People will re-think the concept of 'low-value' jobs
- Work will become way more flexible
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Rostum on March 30, 2020, 05:12:23 PM
Quote
Oh, why do you say that? I know there will be blips, but shouldn't the industry recover next year?

As people realise that they are going to be in lockdown for a lot longer and even if it ends gathering with hundreds of others in a multiplex may not come back into fashion. Plus movies in the can may get shown on streaming services and if they don't lose by it film companies may choose not to split 50% of the take with the distribution companies.
I also expect some of the big name actors  to go 'nah i'm out' after all how many more millions do they need?

Our relationship with China will change. Allowing 98.5% of all anti biotic manufacture to be within China doesn't look so clever for the cost savings now.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: JMack on March 30, 2020, 05:44:06 PM
It’s just, barely, possible that the U.S. will adopt a more universal healthcare system, because “red” states will find themselves hammered, though a good several weeks after the blue states.

Agree about the babies. Been saying that for a few weeks  ;D
Good thing Mrs. J and I are old.   8)
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: The Gem Cutter on March 30, 2020, 07:43:47 PM
Adding to @Rostum 's list:

Much more telework, with related shifts in brick & mortar
Changes in popular home architecture, leaning toward older, more compartmentalized layouts that support telework better
Changes in family layout - people are huddling and although many will want to get back away from each other, many will come to prefer living communally.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Eli_Freysson on March 30, 2020, 08:20:50 PM
It is gradually dawning on me that I am in fact witnessing an historic event, and one that could have huge, long-lasting consequences. History is littered with these moments, yet there is something surreal about realising that you are living one yourself.

And I DO think that studios will resort to using online releases for big-name films in the coming months, and after this is over I wonder how enthusiastic people will be about going to the theatre. It is an inconvenience, after all, and your enjoyment is heavily dependent on your fellow movie goers behaving properly.

Of course, maybe nothing will change all that much. People who try to predict societal changes have a very low success rate.

On another note, things are actually looking pretty good in Iceland. The government seems to have stepped in with just the right measures at just the right time, and the public has reacted the right way, so things are expected to peak in early April.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: xiagan on March 30, 2020, 09:30:55 PM
Birth rates will be the highest in the first world for 50 years.
All kids that are born will be firstborns.
We are farther away from a third one than ever before.  ;D
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: S. K. Inkslinger on March 31, 2020, 06:02:50 AM
Just thought this website would be useful for some people wanting an update on the current numbers: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: cupiscent on March 31, 2020, 11:03:57 AM
Birth rates will be the highest in the first world for 50 years.
All kids that are born will be firstborns.
We are farther away from a third one than ever before.  ;D


(https://media.giphy.com/media/26FLgGTPUDH6UGAbm/giphy.gif)

My husband is way too considerate and intelligent to say "so, about that second kid" right now while I am spending every waking minute of every day trying to entertain and exercise a four-year-old who can't leave our yard... but if he did I would laugh in his face and tell him to enjoy sleeping on the couch.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Rostum on March 31, 2020, 02:27:09 PM
Yeah I can see your point but existing parents will make babies when this is percieved to be over and the relief sets in. As you say those without will breed during a crisis.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Bender on March 31, 2020, 03:08:02 PM
That's a very optimistic take. Reality is closeted together will only lead to more divorces/breakups too and that'll flatten the curve.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Skip on April 01, 2020, 03:06:49 AM
I've been out a couple of times in the past two days, running necessary errands, and I was surprised how aware I was. If people approached, I would change course. I noticed if they were wearing masks or not, if they approached other people or avoided them. It was mostly just an observational curiosity on my part, but it got me thinking.

If I'm a germophobe, this might all be having long-term effects on my psyche. And the longer it goes on, the greater might be those effects. Which got me thinking about all the other mental scars that might be inflicted over these weeks and months--people who lost their job or their business, who saw the way they do business changed forever, who missed out on unique experiences like a graduation, and well too many things to list. Most of that isn't going to make the news, is dwarfed by larger events, but they'll loom large enough to the individual.

And then, on a lighter note, I thought of the younger folk going through this. Now when older folk kvetch about how the younger generation has had it so easy, they'll be able to reply "we lived through a world-changing pandemic, so sit back down, oldster."

Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on April 01, 2020, 04:00:58 AM
You're very right, Skip.
My niece turned 5 yesterday, her party was 8 friends on a video-call and a walk on the Heath with her sister and parents. I wonder if she'll remember...

And guys, what's your opinion on face masks out of fabric? How can they protect anything? I read someone say that "wearing a cloth mask is like asking a police tactical officer to wear four t-shirts instead of a Kevlar vest" and I think I agree.
As Nora said earlier, they're useful to prevent us touching our face, but not the virus from entering our body...
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Lanko on April 01, 2020, 04:31:38 AM
I'm considering getting masks (ang gloves) myself. It must be better than nothing, at least. Any small percentage to avoid getting it seems reasonable.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Rostum on April 01, 2020, 07:14:47 AM
I use gloves and masks in work. Because being hot and uncomfortable is not enough.

Nitrile gloves would certainly prevent any viral contact on hard surfaces the issue is taking them off without contacting your wrist with the potentially contaminated fingers of the other glove.

Masks come in all shapes and ratings most utterly useless you want an N95 off FFP2 rated masks (depending on geography) fitted correctly and then you are largely protecting others from whats in your lungs.

And of course any you can get will all be made in China
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on April 01, 2020, 07:48:29 AM
Oh don't get me wrong, sure it's better than nothing - yesterday at the supermarket I was walking around with my gardening gloves, hehe (mainly for the trolley).
It just might give people a false sense of security...
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Magnus Hedén on April 01, 2020, 09:27:30 AM
On my weekly shopping trips I usually wear plastic gloves, a new set for each store. I throw them away after and disinfect my hands (between every store). For my parents' sake, I wipe down everything with dishwashing liquid and rinse it off. My father would likely die if he caught this virus, so I figure better safe than sorry. It's 10 minutes extra of my time.

But there's no guarantee I won't breathe something in when I'm out shopping. A proper mask would definitely be nice, but I'm not going to go looking for one online when I know there's a huge shortage and people who need them way more than I. If I got sick, I'd most likely be fine -- my main worry would be passing it to my father.

Anyway, time for me to drag myself out of the hole of ifs and maybes and do something with my days. This isn't going away any time soon so I need to establish a new normal.

Stay strong out there everyone!
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on April 01, 2020, 09:28:13 AM
We'd talked about this before, this is today's cartoon in a Portuguese newspaper:

(https://imagens.publico.pt/imagens.aspx/1454753?tp=UH&db=IMAGENS&type=JPG)

It says
"There's a general request to not circulate lies* in social media today"
"As an exception, 'today'?" ;D

(* note that in Portugal we call it "Lies' day" instead of "Fool's day", since it's all about people telling lies)

Also, in 'normal times' the 2 cartoon people are sitting close together ;D
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: NedMarcus on April 01, 2020, 01:03:11 PM
I wear a mask when in crowded places, and always on public transport.

It's strange that medical professionals in the West have very different advice on masks to medical professionals in the East. I'm in Taiwan, and we're encouraged to wear masks, and we're told that they DO make a difference in certain circumstances. In fact it's compulsory in some places. I'll be queueing up again on Sunday morning for my weekly ration of 3 masks. Unfortunately, the queue begins at about 6.30AM about 2.5 hours before the health centre opens.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: xiagan on April 01, 2020, 09:51:15 PM
And guys, what's your opinion on face masks out of fabric? How can they protect anything? I read someone say that "wearing a cloth mask is like asking a police tactical officer to wear four t-shirts instead of a Kevlar vest" and I think I agree.
As Nora said earlier, they're useful to prevent us touching our face, but not the virus from entering our body...
My wife sews Masks for doctors, pharmacies, residential care homes, friends, etc. in the hundreds.
They mainly protect others from yourself, so if everybody had one, everybody would be protected. And they do help with touching your face or not getting 100% of some guy's sneeze on the train into your face...
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: laughs on April 02, 2020, 08:47:58 AM
Healthcare experts are asking us to be positive. They say it's probably a ten-week period we will have to tolerate, the ten weeks coming at different times for different countries. One hopes Italy and Spain are going through one of these ten-week hell cycles. The US is expecting more deaths and critical cases in the coming fortnight. India, where we are seeing the world's biggest lockdown, is also bracing for a spike in number of cases and deaths. What's alarming is experts' prediction that the situation in the US and India could well dwarf the catastrophe in Italy and Spain. Cases seem to be mounting in Latin America also. As a fairly well off person, I first believed that we should protect life and forgo economic growth, and I still believe that. But for the poor, the unemployed, and the homeless, nothing is forgiving. If we have to protect the lives of the vulnerable we need an exemplary healthcare system, a top-notch distributive justice system, and a robust economy. There's no denying that. 3.3 mil Americans (https://www.businessinsider.com/jobless-claims-estimate-record-unemployment-economists-surveyed-coronavirus-layoffs-recession-2020-3) have filed for unemployment claims this past week.

As sociologists (https://www.bartleby.com/textbooks/society-the-basics-14th-edition-14th-edition/9780134206325/solutions) are now saying, this outbreak must force a rethink of how much we spend on healthcare. Almost every country has been caught napping in this regard. We need to cut down on military funding and space research for that to happen. Because this is not going to be the only outbreak we're going to be dealing with. Phew.

Those of us who can afford to practice social distancing really should, at the very least to respect the effort doctors and nurses are expending on the frontlines of this pandemic.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Eli_Freysson on April 02, 2020, 09:14:50 AM
The assembly ban here in Iceland has just been extended throughout April.

Boy, this is fun.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Doctor_Chill on April 03, 2020, 02:07:32 AM
It’s just, barely, possible that the U.S. will adopt a more universal healthcare system, because “red” states will find themselves hammered, though a good several weeks after the blue states.

Someone's being generous and optimistic. Parts of my family still don't think this virus is anywhere near an issue and would probably sacrifice themselves and others to the market gods.

I'm hoping this pandemic makes society rethink traditional office work in favor of increased telework. And UBI. That's a thing, too, but perhaps a decade off from implementation. This will definitely shake up supply chains, labor, and land commodification will continue to increase into the hands of a few. Curious to see how far it goes, though.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Rostum on April 03, 2020, 09:36:22 PM
So what do those who fight tooth and nail against socialised healthcare think of getting free treatment? Have any of them insisted on paying yet? if not remind them when they are trying to block free healthcare for all in the future.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Rostum on April 04, 2020, 12:25:31 AM
SFTDP

And if anybody is feeling really bright at the moment here is a paper from 2007 on the reimergence of SARS

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2176051/ (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2176051/)

Under the heading SHOULD WE BE READY FOR THE REEMERGENCE OF SARS?

"The presence of a large reservoir of SARS-CoV-like viruses in horseshoe bats, together with the culture of eating exotic mammals in southern China, is a time bomb. The possibility of the reemergence of SARS and other novel viruses from animals or laboratories and therefore the need for preparedness should not be ignored"
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on April 04, 2020, 09:24:08 AM
^ wow :o
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Alex Hormann on April 06, 2020, 03:06:43 PM
Saw this (rather long) post on Facebook from the editor at Tor. I knew things were hard with all the bookshops closed, but the audio side took me by surprise.


I want to talk for a minute about why publishing is in so much trouble right now. It's way more complicated than most people seem to think.

First, you need to know that the vast majority of our business remains in hardcover and paperback books. Hard copies, physical objects. The second strongest sector has been audio books. Ebooks are a distant third.

Selling books is a very long and complicated supply chain. Ignore editorial -- writers and editors can work at a distance and electronically. It really starts with the paper. Storing paper for the big presses takes an enormous amount of warehouse space, which costs money. Printers don't store a lot -- they rely on a "just in time" supply chain so that when a book is scheduled to go to press, the paper is delivered to the printer. Most of that paper is manufactured in China. Guess what isn't coming from China? Anything, for the last three months. Some of it comes from Canada. Guess what the Trump administration put a big tariff on at the beginning of the year?

So, we don't have adequate paper supplies. Then consider, big printing plants are not "essential businesses". There are only a couple printers in the US that can handle the book manufacturing business. One of them shut down last week. Covid-19. We started rescheduling books like mad to deal with that.

But supposing we had paper, and a printer and bindery, the books have to be shipped to the warehouse. Again, non-essential movement. The freight drivers moving books? Staying home, as they should. Not all of them. I hope they remain healthy, because dying to get the latest bestseller to the warehouse doesn't seem quite right to me.

Now then, our warehouse. We have a gigantic facility in Virginia. Lots of people are working there, bless them, but it's putting them at risk. There they are, filling orders, packing boxes, running invoices. Giving those boxes to the freight drivers who take the books to the bookstores and distributors. Again, truck drivers risking their lives to bring books to the bookstores.

But think again. The bookstores are closed. The distributors are closed . No place open to deliver the books to. Some bookstores are doing mail order business, bless them, but they aren't ordering very many books from our warehouse. Amazon isn't ordering very many, either -- because they have (correctly) stopped shipping books and are using their reduced staff to ship medical supplies and food.

So the books that distributors and sellers ordered months ago are not being printed or shipped or sold. And because of that, they aren't making any money. And because of THAT, they are not ordering any books for months from now. Plus they aren't paying for the books they got from us last month and the month before. Cash flow has ground to a halt.

Now, audio books....turns out that people mostly, almost 100%, listen to audio books while they commute to work. Sales of audio books collapsed about three weeks ago. Fortunately, there isn't a physical supply chain there, so theoretically that business can restart immediately upon resumption of commuting.

So given all the above, it's not a good time in the publishing industry. The damage is going to last for a long time, the effects will be felt for at least a year to come, even if we do go back to business as usual in May. Or June. Or July.....

Oh let's be real. We won't go back to business as usual until there is a real vaccine for this coronavirus.

Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on April 06, 2020, 03:38:47 PM
Yes, strange about audio almost 100% for commuting!

I'm trying to help... Over the weekend I just bought 2 books from Waterstone's, for the son of a friend's birthday this Friday - I hope they get here on time, it says 72 hours.

I've also been seeing some articles wondering if summer will improve the situation (= no flu season), but that ignores the fact that this is a worldwide disease, doesn't it? I mean, in the Southern Hemisphere it's Summer (or Autumn now), and yet that didn't stop the virus from spreading there, even if it started in a colder climate...
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Alex Hormann on April 06, 2020, 03:45:42 PM
I'm topping up from Waterstones too. Their deliveries are a little slower because of business, but usually within a week of ordering.

As I understand it, the warmer weather won't affect Covid-19 itself, but it means there are fewer other problems going around, so more focus can be put on the virus.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Skip on April 06, 2020, 08:58:07 PM
I keep noticing small things that reflect the impact of the virus. Today I did some shopping. No paper products, no sani, no pasta (which seems just weird), no sugar or flour. All that I expected.

Unexpected: there's a small church I pass to and from the store. It's one of those congregational places with the word Bible in its name (true name obscured, just because). The church is a building set back; set near the road is the pastor's house. Very plain, very simple. The family has two cars. Today, one of them has a For Sale sign in it.

These kinds of churches operate on a shoestring and less. Their brand of Christian fundamentalism is very far from being my cuppa, but my heart went out to them today. They depend on that collection plate to supplement whatever meager income they get from other sources. They aren't going to get any government bailout money. I do see evidence of churches trying to go online as best they can, but they don't exactly have web coders to tap or much of a mechanism for collecting money virtually.

That church made me wonder how many other small catastrophes are happening all around me. My grandparents went through the Great Depression. They remembered the small catastrophes, for they happened all around them. With my wife's grandparents, it happened to them. They went from owning a small trucking company to squatting on a relative's land in northern Minnesota.

More people will, I think, recover from the virus than will recover from the consequences of the virus.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: JMack on April 07, 2020, 12:04:51 AM
Quote
More people will, I think, recover from the virus than will recover from the consequences of the virus.

I’ve been a supporter of all the strategies to protect the communal health.
But God! Sometimes I’m with those who say we need to just get our economies going again.
The impacts of this are going to be with us...
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Skip on April 07, 2020, 04:12:39 AM
I struggle with that phrase, "get the economy going" as if it were some sort of machine. The economy *is* going, it's just not going the way it had been. It's entirely possible that there will be some permanent changes, economically.

For example, there has been talk for quite a while now about employment levels, with predictions that we are fast approaching a time when there simply won't be enough "full time" jobs to go around. Talk about a 30 hour work week, and so on. This disruption could tip us much further along that road. I fully expect to see more pandemics in the coming years.

So, getting "the economy going again" sounds uncomfortably close to "make America great again." No offense meant. Rather, the phrase looks backward to what has been lost and implies the best way forward is to recover what was lost. That constrains thinking in a time why perhaps new ways of thinking are needed.

I realize this is terribly vague. I plead historian. <g>
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: The Gem Cutter on April 07, 2020, 06:15:29 AM
It struck me how strange that we are all facing essentially the same things all across the globe at the same time. My family and I are doing well - I hope you and yours are as well. I believe great good can and will come of all this. But we have to slog through April and May, which will be difficult. Be prepared for anything and everything. I am most concerned about doubling of our troubles - weather, unrest, shortages, hostile actions, utility-losses. Even modest issues will be magnified in their impact(s). My analogy is taken from fact - most fatal car accidents involve two or more relatively uncommon or rare situations happening at once. As we swerve to deal with this virus, it would be terrible to have to deal with ... anything else. Stay frosty.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on April 07, 2020, 09:48:04 AM
Interesting graph:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49745346211_a5d078a76a_h.jpg)
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: JMack on April 07, 2020, 10:33:19 AM
I do like “safeguard livelihoods”, rather than “get the economy going again.”
It speaks to my concern for the humans, rather than the businesses. But the two are hugely intertwined. So many small businesses are at risk, so many people’s savings may be wiped out. Perhaps there will be a new social contract that arises from this. But even if so, and even if that might be a good, it’ll have terrible birth pangs.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Eli_Freysson on April 07, 2020, 11:41:09 PM
Iceland's top epidemiologist has predicted that the nation may have to live with some level of restriction for the rest of the year.

These certainly are interesting times to observe. Just too bad they are so awful.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on April 09, 2020, 07:47:45 AM
There's now a campaign going on here to raise money for the NHS.
As valid and commendable that is, personally I'd rather give money to the small local/regional charities that are in extreme difficulties at the moment because the fundraising stopped.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Magnus Hedén on April 09, 2020, 09:54:39 AM
That's what taxes are supposed to be for.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on April 09, 2020, 10:02:15 AM
That's what taxes are supposed to be for.
Exactly.
(I assume you mean the 'raising money for the NHS' bit, rather than supporting the charities, hehe)
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on April 16, 2020, 07:59:28 AM
What do you think of this slow return to normal, opening some shops and easing lockdown?
Personally it will be a long while until I feel at ease again, I'd certainly wouldn't go anywhere with a chance of higher number of people.

I went to the big supermarket this week as I really needed it, and it was so strange! A mixture of standing in front of a shelf normally choosing a thing and not thinking of others nearby, and running with my trolley through aisles to escape people... My heart was stopping and racing and stopping, and it almost felt like a workout hehe
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: S. K. Inkslinger on April 16, 2020, 08:52:13 AM
I'm really glad things are starting to open up once more. I had really missed the gym, hahah.

Btw your profile picture is back to normal, Bea. Congrats!  :D
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Eclipse on April 16, 2020, 09:18:42 AM
It’s too soon to ease lockdown I feel.

I want to go to the barbers! I could cut my own hair but I know I make a mess of it 😀 I just grow it long.

Wearing a baseball cap when I go outside.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Cherie on April 16, 2020, 12:44:24 PM
That's one area where I feel a little bit smug... I cut my own hair anyway, have done for about 17 years now. I lopped about 2 or 3 inches off it the other day.  ;D
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on April 16, 2020, 01:12:04 PM
I had been thinking of growing mine anyway, so that's not a problem (it's going through the weird phase now, so I'm glad I'm not going out, hehe)

And Eclipse, you don't have enough hair to worry for a long time ;D
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Doctor_Chill on April 16, 2020, 03:15:19 PM
The States probably have another month until it's safe to start opening up some of them (West Coast, New York, perhaps Texas). But don't tell them that.

On the topic of haircuts, debating just shaving my head again because no barbers and Texas heat. It's a ritual for me each summer, but I kinda need to look professional for my capstone defense and job interviews. The dilemma.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on April 16, 2020, 04:08:54 PM
On the topic of haircuts, debating just shaving my head again because no barbers and Texas heat. It's a ritual for me each summer, but I kinda need to look professional for my capstone defense and job interviews. The dilemma.
I need visual proof to evaluate. Shaved head isn't necessarily bad, but need to check how you look now, hehe


Another virus consequence: I just had a call from the nurse at the hospital cancelling my annual check-up booked for the end of May :-\
I'll still have the test (which they'll rebook, as they're trying to reduce footfall at the hospital), but not the conversation/proper check with the nurse specialist, which I was really looking forward to... She said that if I have any concerns I can still call and will be seen, but I was relying on the check-up to maybe pick up something I haven't noticed :(
I understand the reasoning, and fully agree, but it's still a bummer
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: xiagan on April 16, 2020, 08:28:58 PM
What do you think of this slow return to normal, opening some shops and easing lockdown?
I think it's too early...

-> https://medium.com/@vinodbhardwajusa/its-the-math-stupid-6e0b6afe4108
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: NightWrite on April 16, 2020, 08:32:47 PM
I'm not overly worried about my hair as while I haven't been doing it as long as Cherie, I've been cutting my own hair for about 3-4 years now.

It's too early to open everything back up, but I'm thankful they're at least planning to take things slowly.

Though I can't help but miss going to art stores given I'm running low on some supplies. Sure I can order online, and I do for some stuff I can't get local, but I just love going into an art store and surrounding myself in the atmosphere as I hunt for supplies. I think part of the longing is tied into the day trip my Mom and I had planned to take to a city about an hour away in March, but had to cancel. One of my favorite ma & pa art stores was on the itinerary for that day.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: CameronJohnston on April 16, 2020, 09:02:04 PM
I'll be venturing into self-administered hair cutting this weekend as well. Eep. At least if I mess it up nobody will get to see it.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: NightWrite on April 17, 2020, 02:19:19 AM
I'll be venturing into self-administered hair cutting this weekend as well. Eep. At least if I mess it up nobody will get to see it.
Whenever I mess up or it doesn't turn out how I like, I remind myself it's just hair. It'll grow back. Though perhaps it doesn't bother me so much because I don't look too terrible if I have to buzz it almost all off.

My problem is usually how often I'll put off doing it. For the past 2-3 weeks I keep telling myself every few days I'll cut it, yet I can never bring myself to break out the clippers.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Skip on April 17, 2020, 04:54:39 AM
Phrases like "opening back up again" and "getting the economy going" trouble me. This isn't going to be opening a door. It isn't going to be stimulus leading to recovery.

I'd rather see the focus be on the people who have been harmed. I'd rather hear people talk about how we are going to be helping employers pay back wages, how we get more people covered by health care, how we get jobs for recent grads and for people who've lost their jobs. When I hear leaders talk about the economy, it's only about numbers, which usually means stock markets and major corporations. Not the little guy. And it's the little guys who've been hurt the worst. What are we going to do for the families who've lost loved ones, and for those whose loved ones have been permanently scarred by the illness?

These are not the sort of things that happen by a calendar date. I'm very much afraid we are going to pick a date and declare victory and ignore the bodies in the alleyways.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: NightWrite on April 17, 2020, 02:15:50 PM
Nothing brings the "warm fuzzy" feelings like waking up, opening the paper, and finding many of your state's lawmakers are trying to overturn your state's lockdown policies. I'll give everyone a single guess as to their reasoning....

On a more positive note, at least to me, I've built up the nerve to move past my anxieties enough to start volunteering again. Before the lockdown I volunteered at a local animal shelter walking dogs, but the shelter closed to the public and volunteers with the exception of a few appointments per day for people wanting to adopt. About two weeks ago, the shelter was reopened to volunteers under new protocols to comply with to keep each other and the kennel staff safe, while still allowing the animals to get socialization; we have to get the dogs from the outside, we have to sanitize any toys or leashes we use, we can't go into the building beyond the rear foyer or the cat room, etc.. But it was only recently that I put my name on the spreadsheet, to get myself back into doing something I love and missed once more.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on April 17, 2020, 02:45:00 PM
That's good of you!
I keep thinking I should volunteer with the people who take food and stuff to those who can't leave home but I just can't, I feel super anxious just being near anyone - near as in "in line of sight", ignore those 2m, that's far too close ::) :-\
My trips to the supermarket are a drama, I'm now trying to only go once every 2 weeks...
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: NightWrite on April 17, 2020, 07:42:54 PM
Don't push yourself too hard Bea. If you don't feel comfortable around others, don't force yourself to volunteer. If you still want to help, perhaps you could buy a few extra things during a shopping trip and donate them to a food pantry or something if you have the funds.

With volunteering in my case, it helps that each weekday is being broken down into three 2-hour shifts of up to 6 volunteers per shift (3 for cats and 3 for dogs) under current protocols. And since staff and volunteers are suppose to stay separate unless absolutely necessary (hence why we have limited building access), at most I only have two other people I have to interact with.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: The Gem Cutter on April 19, 2020, 05:26:31 PM
I don't know what's happening in Europe, but in America, cascading secondary impacts in multiple sectors are combining and recombining. Social, economic, medical, and political pressures are going to continue to grow and spill over from their traditional 'areas' into others. Most people without employment have no healthcare, and even a brief analysis tells you that as the spread continues, that fact will combine with unemployment to yield huge numbers of angry, sick, and desperate people, many of whom are uninformed, misinformed, and influenced by a wide variety of disinformation. I do not preach from the mount - I am as vulnerable as anyone to this dynamic.

My point is that everyone, everywhere in America, should be prepared for violence and civil unrest in the weeks and months ahead.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Rostum on April 19, 2020, 06:41:46 PM
I thought Trump had said all treatment for the virus would be free? Or did I misunderstand? Totally agree about the secondaries though. I think being prepared is always better than not but I dont forsee rioting in your near future.
If things start to look bad more money will be thrown about. Everyone who is perplexed that Trump has done so as a Republican is forgetting that he also maked his money from property and property guys make their money from inflation. Losing custom at his hotels hurts losing value on the buildings is what diminishes him though.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: The Gem Cutter on April 19, 2020, 09:06:50 PM
Not sure what he said, it doesn't pay to keep track. But testing is free; treatment is not. This will lead to bankruptcies and hospital financial strain, on top of everything else. Which leads to hospital layoffs etc., adding more strain. vicious cycles of vicious cycles.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: JMack on April 19, 2020, 09:54:01 PM
And Trump will delight in egging on those who will protest against their local restrictions, since generally his own party governors are already starting to loosen the rules.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Rostum on April 19, 2020, 11:20:50 PM
Quote
Not sure what he said, it doesn't pay to keep track. But testing is free; treatment is not. This will lead to bankruptcies and hospital financial strain, on top of everything else. Which leads to hospital layoffs etc., adding more strain. vicious cycles of vicious cycles.

So pretty much you have it now pay up $35,000. Pretty much any serious injury or illness can cause bankruptcy in the uninsured. I suspect you will see more than one case of someone taking someone else to hospital armed and demanding treatment. Long term if it shows beyond doubt that your health system is broken and does not serve the people and that you need something else.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on April 20, 2020, 07:52:37 AM
Germany and Denmark are opening up some small shops and businesses from today.
I wonder if it's too soon...
I just know that if it was here, I still wouldn't go to the hairdresser :-\
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: NightWrite on April 20, 2020, 03:15:06 PM
So last night I ended up breaking down and having an angry cry after watching a news segment about the outbreak of protests across the US.

It's come to the point where my anxieties focus more on the people than the virus itself. I keep trying to remind myself that they're just scared and worried about current events too. But it's getting harder when they do things like turn themselves into a potential hotbed for the viral spread given how tightly some of the protests were packed.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Doctor_Chill on April 20, 2020, 05:00:09 PM
I keep trying to remind myself that they're just scared and worried about current events too.

This is the frustration I have with many of my neoliberal friends. These protesters are not scared of the virus. These protesters are not scared of the economy crashing. They think the virus is either A) a hoak, B) the flu, or C) worth the risk. They think the economy will go back to 1960s way of doing by the end of the summer. They are not afraid of the virus. They are afraid of losing control.

Conservatives do not care about freedoms, rights, or values. Any quick examination will produce a myriad of cognitive dissonance present in these people. No, conservatives care about the hierarchy of capitalism, which requires winners and losers and order. Once this order begins to break down, cracks in the system begin to show. They realize they are mostly non-essential workers. They realize that the essential workers are young, minority, or liberal. If -- in the case of rural areas -- these conservatives are essential, they then realize that their pay is nowhere near where it should be. That stimulus check and unemployment? It's set at the federal minimum wage for a forty hour work week for one month. That's a free check for the amount of work they put in for a month -- if an essential worker. The government just provided them the closest bit of "socialism" they're willing to take.

And you know what? They love it. They realize they might need it. They just realized all the problems liberals are talking about might be serious, such as healthcare being tied to employers, and for that split second, they made a value judgment and rationalized after the fact that this virus is either A, B, or C. That keeps their worldview intact, but that break was enough for them to get angry. They realized they're getting hurt, so "this virus is hurting the wrong people." White people worked for this country, built up this country, and now they're getting hurt and getting a handout from this country? No, they want order. They want to return to normal because it threatens their way of life. They don't care about others. They're not afraid of this virus. They're not afraid of the economy. They're afraid of realizing that the system they so ignorantly participate in has flaws, and that's too much for their propaganda mind to wrestle with.

So let them die. Stop worrying about them and let them die. You cannot rationalize with someone who came to their conclusions irrationally. You cannot be surprised when a man who voted for the Leopard party gets his face eaten off by the Leopard. Stay in your homes and ride out this wave for the next month (your mileage may vary). When a vaccine comes along, they will not take it. Take care of you, your family, and anyone else that is willing to work with you. I know it sucks (that is putting this systemic struggle lightly), but short of military intervention and human rights violations, there is no way to keep these imbeciles at home.

In the famous words of one protester, "This is my body, so it's my choice if I go back to work." You may see the irony.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Rostum on April 20, 2020, 05:12:30 PM
And there is now more evidence that you can catch covid more than once so lots of measures put in place will have no effect controlling the virus if you relax things like international travel or even social distancing. Could be a long time before their is any semblence of normal.

Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: lostontheway on April 20, 2020, 05:49:31 PM
I've got a degree in Biochemistry and I'm being asked by my friends about my opinion on when we should open up the states and what to do. After I share it, I see people and politicians doing almost the opposite of what I recommend and it's so frustrating that people won't listen to scientists who may know what we're talking about
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Doctor_Chill on April 20, 2020, 07:08:22 PM
I've got a degree in Biochemistry and I'm being asked by my friends about my opinion on when we should open up the states and what to do. After I share it, I see people and politicians doing almost the opposite of what I recommend and it's so frustrating that people won't listen to scientists who may know what we're talking about

Anti-intellectualism is No 10 (?) on the 14 Points of Fascism. Never forgot that.

Also: What zombie movies got wrong about the actual apocalypse, part X: they omitted scenes of people on the street demanding the right to be eaten by zombies.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: NightWrite on April 20, 2020, 07:13:29 PM
I think I'm going to break out my old acrylics and just sling some paint onto a canvas with no end goal but to work through these worries and thoughts. I've been using various craft projects, paintings, etc. to distract myself these past few weeks. Perhaps its time I use them to face the beast instead, if only a little, as distraction isn't helping.

True, I channeled a bit of it into my short story for this month, but in a tempered form given I plan on posting the story. This painting can be however wants, as I doubt I'll ever show it to someone in my lifetime. Like one of Dr. Seuss' darker "midnight paintings" (I watched a video on the collection the other day, hence the reference).

So let them die. Stop worrying about them and let them die. You cannot rationalize with someone who came to their conclusions irrationally.
A part of me says they deserve it if they get sick, but the rest asks at what cost. It's not just them affected if they come down with the virus. And I do not wish further strain upon the medical workers already being worn down as they struggle to care for their patients. They don't need or deserve the burden of having to care for fools welcoming sickness.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Rostum on April 20, 2020, 07:35:48 PM
Should anyone have the inclination check out https://kunstler.com/writings/clusterfuck-nation/ (https://kunstler.com/writings/clusterfuck-nation/) I followed this blog for years and stopped in 2015. James is a perceptive writer and noted economist however there is only so much doom you can cope with in your life. I am sure he will have an interesting take on current day America. I am working lots so probably wont start reading it again at the moment
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Eli_Freysson on April 20, 2020, 10:22:51 PM
Also: What zombie movies got wrong about the actual apocalypse, part X: they omitted scenes of people on the street demanding the right to be eaten by zombies.

When all this is over I'll be expecting a satirical zombie movie about just this. People angrily calling the zombie apocalypse a hoax while people are being eaten in the background, and stubbornly going to a beach currently being overrun by the hordes.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: lostontheway on April 20, 2020, 10:41:06 PM
@Rostum I actually did check out the blog! Kunstler is definitely a very perceptive writer and very enjoyable to read however after reading 3-4 blogs, his anti-trans and anti-socialism stance became too egregious and thus I had to stop. I would actually not recommend others to read his blog because of the crazy amount of negativity and distaste towards other not like him.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Rostum on April 21, 2020, 12:34:00 AM
Quote
@Rostum I actually did check out the blog! Kunstler is definitely a very perceptive writer and very enjoyable to read however after reading 3-4 blogs, his anti-trans and anti-socialism stance became too egregious and thus I had to stop. I would actually not recommend others to read his blog because of the crazy amount of negativity and distaste towards other not like him.

Of his anti-trans stance I was unaware, I shall have to read some now but not tonight. I am sure there are some who would label me as transphobic because trans issues are not at the fore front of my decision making and I disagree with special treatment for anyone but there is another thread for that Free speech (or not) - and some tea (http://Free speech (or not) - and some tea) which covers the various groups trying to deplatform others rather than having a conversation.

As for anti-socialist he is American. Left wing american politics is usually to the right of European politics. I don't know where you are from or what your beliefs are but they don't have to preclude you taking interest in anothers viewpoint from a culteral as well as political perspective. Even if it's to prove them wrong.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Cherie on April 25, 2020, 05:15:45 PM
For a self confessed hermit, I'm actually beginning to miss people because of the lockdown. I sat and worked out that I've not seem the majority of my colleagues for 5 weeks, and had no physical contact with anyone for 6.

I've had a total of 3 face to face (ish) conversations in the last 3 weeks: 2 supermarket cashiers, and the British Gas engineer who fixed my boiler.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on April 25, 2020, 05:29:33 PM
I've had a total of 3 face to face (ish) conversations in the last 3 weeks: 2 supermarket cashiers, and the British Gas engineer who fixed my boiler.
You beat me with the engineer hehe

The UK went over 20,000 hospital deaths today - worldwide it's just over 200,000 :'(
I can't get my brain to work with these numbers...

At least just over 819k recovered cases, even though the stupid UK isn't tracking them! Us, and the Netherlands, are the only places in the whole world not giving the positive news >:(
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/)
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Doctor_Chill on April 25, 2020, 06:08:10 PM
The UK went over 20,000 hospital deaths today - worldwide it's just over 200,000 :'(
I can't get my brain to work with these numbers...

USA broke 50,000 deaths yesterday, and much of the heartland is just now starting to rise with cases. My small town of 30,000 just broke 100 confirmed cases this week. Texas started soft reopening yesterday. I'm worried the market gods are going to demand more sacrifices.

For a self confessed hermit, I'm actually beginning to miss people because of the lockdown. I sat and worked out that I've not seem the majority of my colleagues for 5 weeks, and had no physical contact with anyone for 6.

I've had a total of 3 face to face (ish) conversations in the last 3 weeks: 2 supermarket cashiers, and the British Gas engineer who fixed my boiler.

I feel this. We had friends over last night for the first time in two weeks. It was wonderful, and that's a drastic understatement. My wife works with college students and there is the high potential that there will be no students this next year on campus. That's going to be tough for us, as she's in meetings with students usually two or three hours a day. On top of that, I've started applying to jobs, and unless I can find one in this town, I'm going to have to negotiate working remote (done it for the past two years, probs can swing it due to my niche experience, but having to do it for another year because of this virus is not looking good).

I hope you find more opportunities for face-to-face conversations. They're desperately needed during this time for everyone's mental health. I shudder at the extroverts working through this situation.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on April 25, 2020, 07:21:02 PM
Sometimes I joke, but it's getting to a point that's not healthy :-\

I mean, in theory of course I know that the majority of people live with someone else, and they being together is normal and not breaking social distancing, but in practice my heart starts racing when I see 2 people close, and I get annoyed.

Silence and quiet and aloneness is my baseline, something now extended to the rest of the world, and I fear when that ends, how I will react. It's scary
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: NightWrite on April 25, 2020, 07:27:38 PM
My city's reopened the recycling services for a short period (8am-4 pm Thursday, Friday, and Saturday in two different parking lots) almost a month after closing all the drop off points. I went yesterday and realized it was the most people I'd been around in about 6 weeks, all of them strangers. Even with the police and city workers there to guide things it felt like a chaotic mess as people wove around each other with their recyclables. Drove my nerves ragged to the point I almost had a mini-breakdown in the parking lot. But I'm glad I went as the recyclables were piling up and who knows when the next chance will be.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: S. K. Inkslinger on April 26, 2020, 08:37:10 AM
I'm having a feeling that my short story publisher would have been affected by the corona virus crisis, and that sucks a lot. The place have been struggling for some time, a few months back they emailed me to notify that "The Knight of Chimera" (my novel) and any of their other title works are going to be discontinued due to the continued losses on their part. Now, with this crisis, I'm afraid that I won't even get to see the latest issue of the literary express, which the publisher have specially asked for me to compose a poem to be on their back cover. This sucks mates.  :-\
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on April 26, 2020, 10:59:17 AM
I've had a total of 3 face to face (ish) conversations in the last 3 weeks: 2 supermarket cashiers, and the British Gas engineer who fixed my boiler.
You beat me with the engineer hehe

 :o I can't believe I forgot! No, I've chatted with a friend and her boy the other day, it was his birthday! I went to their place, put my present on the door step, knocked, then walked backwards to the drive/road, and they opened the door and we chatted a bit.
And then they did the same a few days later, at my place.
So strange...

And for a laugh:

Quote
“Video call background” personalities:

“I am very smart!”
- Lots of unread books

“Stay out of my private life”
- A blank off-white wall

“Wild child”
- Garden

“Harry Potter”
- A small cupboard

“Wine drinker”
- Kitchen worktop

“I have kids”
- Locked echoing bathroom
(@VeryBritishProblems)
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Eli_Freysson on April 27, 2020, 08:39:00 AM
I just read a story on an Icelandic news site: Due to this whole corona mess the symphony in my town is almost the only group in the world currently able and qualified to do movie soundtracks these days. So commissions are streaming in from Netflix, to a culture centre in my little town of 20.000, here on the edge of the Arctic Circle.

We're living in really odd times.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Rostum on April 27, 2020, 11:20:42 PM
Hmmm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPJqnTZgahU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPJqnTZgahU)
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on April 28, 2020, 07:36:28 AM
^ super interesting report!

At the other end of the spectrum, my dad told me that he saw on the news that loads of americans have been rushed to hospital after drinking detergent/cleaning fluid ::)
Natural selection at work?
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Doctor_Chill on April 28, 2020, 02:51:43 PM
At the other end of the spectrum, my dad told me that he saw on the news that loads of americans have been rushed to hospital after drinking detergent/cleaning fluid ::)
Natural selection at work?

If only natural selection worked that well.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: NightWrite on April 28, 2020, 08:47:43 PM
I've reached the point where I've either rediscovered old hobbies or picked up enough new one's I doubt I'll be able to maintain them all once the lockdown is lifted. At least I'm burning through the stash of craft supplies I inherited from both my grandmothers and have spent the past how many months puzzling over what to do with it all. And some of the stuff I'm making is actually useful. ;)

At the other end of the spectrum, my dad told me that he saw on the news that loads of americans have been rushed to hospital after drinking detergent/cleaning fluid ::)
Natural selection at work?
Are they just drinking it because they're loosing it? Or are they drinking it because they think it'll work as a cure/preventative? Like that one man (I think he was from Arizona) who drank fish tank cleaner, or something similar, a few weeks ago because it had one of the major compounds also found in that anti-malaria drug I can't remember the name of.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on April 28, 2020, 09:03:07 PM
^ Trump said it would kill the virus ::)
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: NightWrite on April 28, 2020, 09:20:03 PM
^ Trump said it would kill the virus ::)
Well, it is the reason why that man died from drinking aquarium products after he and his wife had seen Fox News pushing the drug back when Trump first started pushing it
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: cupiscent on April 29, 2020, 12:23:39 AM
I am tending to assume that we're all better off without anyone who still does what Trump says, at this point. I hate that that is a thing that I think, but oh my goodness, HOW COULD YOU?
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Rostum on April 29, 2020, 04:59:03 AM
Desperation and no access to affordable healthcare play their part.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Eli_Freysson on April 29, 2020, 02:55:26 PM
I just read about a bit of a farewell ceremony that was held in my town's hospital as the final Covid patient was released. A few people are still in home quarantine, but it has been 20 days since the last new diagnosis. So we seem to be doing pretty well.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Magnus Hedén on April 29, 2020, 03:01:24 PM
You and New Zealand both. A combination of having fairly small populations, being on islands, and a solid response to the virus, I think.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on May 01, 2020, 11:16:21 AM
Portugal is starting to re-open, through stages.
Bookshops are included in the stage 1, isn't it nice? :D
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: JMack on May 01, 2020, 11:32:38 AM
I think we’re at that tipping point where we have to start re-opening. Carefully, with protections. The stress between economic disaster and health disaster feels ready to snap.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on May 01, 2020, 12:00:38 PM
Yes, it's funny because there are different "situation levels" (type code red, amber, etc)
Portugal has been on "State of Emergency" for about a month, which is the highest level. That ends on Sunday, and they move to "State of Calamity" (level 2).
However, that word 'calamity' for me, creates a stronger response than 'emergency', don't you think?

I can only explain with the feeling that 'emergency' is temporary, but a 'calamity' lasts a long time and has super serious consequences.

I was talking with some colleagues earlier, telling them how I will have to manage my "anti-people stance" in the near future ::)
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Rostum on May 01, 2020, 12:54:12 PM
From looking at other peoples numbers I am fairly sure that relaxing the lockdown is a bad idea if your sole input is infection and mortality rates. Lots of other factors are kicking in and mental health seems to be a big one in the UK. Even the asocial like me are feeling the bite. So more gregarious people are probably suffering. I guess there is a mechanism to weigh the risks against other factors and damages.

I am still working and stress levels are higher than normal from the top down. Everyone is fed up with the largely 'seen to be done' precautions and the extra PPE in an increasingly warmer environment as the weather improves. I am waiting to see if I need to self isolate again or be tested as I have had contact at work with someone who needs to be tested. I suspect it will take a death for the 'should we be doing this' question to be re-evaluated.

Anyway first world problems. I suspect the long term damage in the 3rd world may have a higher body count than the virus itself. Many of the issues taking years if not decades to manifest.


Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on May 01, 2020, 01:37:16 PM
I mean, in terms of treating the virus, we are in the exact same situation as earlier in the year: there's no vaccine, no treatment, no medicine.
The whole lockdown objective was "flattening the curve" and avoiding having a ton of people needing the hospital at the same time, so I'm not sure how that has changed, considering that the number of people who haven't caught it (and so can potentially still get it, easily) is way higher than the ones who've had it, even assuming that you can't get it twice.

Another thing I'd like to understand is the testing. Isn't it only relevant to those with symptoms? There's no point in testing people who are well, I mean, it can come back negative but that's not an indicator of anything, tomorrow they can go out and catch it, right?
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: NightWrite on May 02, 2020, 12:16:47 AM
Anyway first world problems. I suspect the long term damage in the 3rd world may have a higher body count than the virus itself. Many of the issues taking years if not decades to manifest.
I read in the paper the other day Africa as a whole is being ravaged given they're being outbid by other countries when it comes to PPE, ventilators, etc.. I'm not sure about other places like in Central and South America, but I imagine its just as bad for them.

Another thing I'd like to understand is the testing. Isn't it only relevant to those with symptoms? There's no point in testing people who are well, I mean, it can come back negative but that's not an indicator of anything, tomorrow they can go out and catch it, right?
They're hunting for asymptomatic carriers who could have it and be spreading it without showing any symptoms themselves. At least, I think that's why they're doing it for those not showing active symptoms.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: cupiscent on May 02, 2020, 01:07:58 AM
Another thing I'd like to understand is the testing. Isn't it only relevant to those with symptoms? There's no point in testing people who are well, I mean, it can come back negative but that's not an indicator of anything, tomorrow they can go out and catch it, right?
They're hunting for asymptomatic carriers who could have it and be spreading it without showing any symptoms themselves. At least, I think that's why they're doing it for those not showing active symptoms.

Yes, this. They want to stop what they call "community transmission" cases, where they have no idea where this person picked up the disease because they haven't been in contact with a known case. Saturation testing is looking for Typhoid Mary, the people who don't seem to be sick, but have it and can give it to other people, who do get sick.

Here in Aus, we're just starting with a tracking app, whereby your phone will keep track of who you've been in contact with, and if you come down with it, everyone who's been in contact will get notified so they can get tested. The idea being, even if they are asymptomatic, and don't manifest the disease, they can still get locked down so they don't spread it.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: S. K. Inkslinger on May 02, 2020, 07:59:13 AM
I think we’re at that tipping point where we have to start re-opening. Carefully, with protections. The stress between economic disaster and health disaster feels ready to snap.

This. It's pretty much pandemic vs economic instability and unrest nowadays. I understood, if I was living without a job but having bills coming in in greater amounts each month I'd probably be protesting too. I wouldn't envy being the leader of a country right now, they are making decisions that just simply couldn't' satisfy everybody, and no matter how you do it someone is still going to hate you and blame you for it. There's simply no way to win this battle.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on May 02, 2020, 09:12:57 PM
So strange that the Spanish "ease of lockdown" is still stricter than the normal UK lockdown ::)
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Eli_Freysson on May 06, 2020, 10:51:19 PM
An Icelandic woman recently recovered from corona. She turns 103 years old soon. She's lived through two world wars, two major pandemics, and has contracted tuberculosis twice. And she's still not quite done.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: NightWrite on May 07, 2020, 05:23:05 PM
Today I've made a minor realization. I'm not much of a soda drinker, a 6-pack of cream soda, root beer, or orange soda can last me 1-2 years with how rarely I crave it. But in the past month alone I've consumed more soda than I have in the past 5 years.

I feel like this increase in craving/consumption is tied to current world events, but I can't figure out why. Could it be my mind's way of "celebrating" my continued survival in the face of so many deaths? I had thought about opening one of the bottles of wine we keep for special occasions last month as "my family and close friends are all relatively fine and healthy, isn't that worth celebrating." But I didn't opened the bottle in the end.

Could the soda drinking might be a manifestation of that thought process given soda's also become like a special occasion drink with how rarely I consume it.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on May 07, 2020, 07:32:21 PM
My therapist today was saying that we need to celebrate the little things, so I think yes, and you should go ahead and open the wine :)


I am SO INCREDIBLY ANGRY >:(

Last week I went to the supermarket at 3.30 and it was quite full, so this week I decided to go at 6-6.30, when everyone's having dinner. I also decided to go to the one that's a bit further away, so that my car can drive a bit and recharge the battery.
I got there and the car park was full! No small trolleys. I entered, looked for about a minute and it was so crowded and there was no bread, I just turned around and left! Had a bit of a cry.
I drove to the supermarket closer to home. Also lots of people, lots, and everyone acting perfectly normal!!! No distancing, no masks, no NOTHING!
I was there with my big scarf around my face, protecting myself, and yet no one else cared.
I think I didn't buy half the stuff I wanted...
I'm home now and still need to calm down :'(

Next week I'll try going at 9pm...
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Doctor_Chill on May 07, 2020, 09:12:40 PM
Last week I went to the supermarket at 3.30 and it was quite full, so this week I decided to go at 6-6.30, when everyone's having dinner. I also decided to go to the one that's a bit further away, so that my car can drive a bit and recharge the battery.
I got there and the car park was full! No small trolleys. I entered, looked for about a minute and it was so crowded and there was no bread, I just turned around and left! Had a bit of a cry.
I drove to the supermarket closer to home. Also lots of people, lots, and everyone acting perfectly normal!!! No distancing, no masks, no NOTHING!


Yep. I have to go at 7am or else it's still hoarding central two months into this shindig. Nor do people wear masks or keep their distance. Then we wonder why East Texas is, on a per population basis, the hardest hit area of Texas. We have five hospitals in our 14 county region, across two cities, and half of the beds are already filled. But why does that matter...
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: JMack on May 08, 2020, 12:51:21 AM
Last week I went to the supermarket at 3.30 and it was quite full, so this week I decided to go at 6-6.30, when everyone's having dinner. I also decided to go to the one that's a bit further away, so that my car can drive a bit and recharge the battery.
I got there and the car park was full! No small trolleys. I entered, looked for about a minute and it was so crowded and there was no bread, I just turned around and left! Had a bit of a cry.
I drove to the supermarket closer to home. Also lots of people, lots, and everyone acting perfectly normal!!! No distancing, no masks, no NOTHING!


Yep. I have to go at 7am or else it's still hoarding central two months into this shindig. Nor do people wear masks or keep their distance. Then we wonder why East Texas is, on a per population basis, the hardest hit area of Texas. We have five hospitals in our 14 county region, across two cities, and half of the beds are already filled. But why does that matter...

It's all fake news, Chilly. The deep state and the pharmaceutical industry just want to take away our freedoms and terrify us all into buying their expensive drugs.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Skip on May 08, 2020, 05:07:29 AM
I live in Idaho which, as I've been telling people for decades, is located just north of Alabama. Very conservative.

I'm pleased to report that I'm not seeing really egregious behavior. My local grocery stores (two, in my small town) are chronically out of Lysol wipes, and understocked on certain items (pasta, weirdly), but the staff all wear masks and I'd say somewhere between 40% and 60% of the customers do. The carts (trolleys, for you foreigners) now have a sign over them that says something like "these carts have been wiped down" and "return used carts here." There's a maximum number of people allowed in, which I doubt is tightly enforced, and there are markers on the floor to show six feet at the check-out lines. In fact, I've seen the same markers in other places such as our local UPS and elsewhere. Most people seem to oblige.

I really was prepared to see open and aggressive flaunting of the lockdown our governor proclaimed. There have been the idiots, of course, but long experience with the human species has taught me to keep my expectations low. I'd rate current behavior at Meets or Slightly Exceeds Expectations.

Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: S. K. Inkslinger on May 08, 2020, 08:30:51 AM
Everyone here wears masks whenever they're outside, so at least we've got that much, I guess. Although respecting social distancing distance still seemed to be an issue somewhat.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: JMack on May 08, 2020, 12:27:53 PM
I live in Idaho which, as I've been telling people for decades, is located just north of Alabama. Very conservative.

And for all you unAmericans ahem, non-Americans, Idaho is actually a few thousand miles away from Alabama. Skip is using a rhetorical device. I tried to figure out which one that might be, exactly (https://blog.prepscholar.com/rhetorical-devices-list-examples), but have decided just to call it a Skipataphor. Or maybe it's just funny.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Skip on May 08, 2020, 05:03:29 PM
Liked, though "Skipataphor" would make a good name for a dinosaur.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on May 09, 2020, 01:42:25 PM
The more I live, the less I understand people...

There's a lockdown. Loads of people aren't working, which means they have way more free time than usual. Yet on saturday mornings I still see huge queues at the local shops, people doing their weekly shopping. Especially pensioners!
Why don't they go during the week/at different times?
During my run today I walked past 3 shops, this was happening in every single one ::)

And let's not mention the lady crossing the road who was walking straight into me, and when I ran into the road trying to escape her and exclaimed "oh for goodness sake!" out loud, she laughed at me! >:(
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Skip on May 09, 2020, 03:06:32 PM
Loads of people have lost their jobs, but *most* people are still employed. Even if working from home. A percentage of those are single parents. Weekends are still for most people the day to get things done.

FTR, my wife and I, retired, do our shopping errands during the week.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: JMack on May 09, 2020, 03:58:33 PM
@Skip: Idaho, right?
Is that home always? Home mostly? Or a retirement choice?
What do you like most/least
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Skip on May 09, 2020, 05:03:43 PM
Home pretty much all the time. We're stay-at-homes anyway. I write. We both game. We have our little dog.

My wife's the eldest of nine, most of whom have remained here in the (badly-misnamed) Treasure Valley, so our social circle is pretty much just her kin. I'm an only child with no surviving relatives, so her folk are my folk. She very much misses being able to go hang out with her sisters and nieces and grand-whatevers.

We have three grown children, two grandchildren, none of whom live here. One in St Paul MN, one in Seattle, one in eastern Washington state. Our first trip is upcoming, end of month, to see the eastern Washington group. Not being able to visit our kids on a whim has been difficult.

Most difficult has been losing two loved ones recently. Neither to Covid. One was father-in-law, much loved by all, who died in mid-January. Everyone was able to be there, and for that we are all thankful. But he had Parkinsons and required much attention--and with so many children and grandchildren, he sure got it! But that also meant that this focus, which had taken up so much of our time and hearts, was suddenly gone and then the lockdown came and the opportunity to grieve together was gone. That, I believe, has been even harder than not seeing the kids.

And then our dog Molly had to be put down. So, two tough losses in the span of two tough months. These things have loomed much larger for us than any mere inconveniences. We of course share everyone's anger at those who are not taking this seriously. They know not what they do. Or say. Or think. Most people, in most times, in most places, and in most circumstances, do not think clearly or consistently. That's the human condition. One consequence of the liberal, progressivist tradition is that it has led us to think rather better of ourselves than we deserve. Certainly better than we have earned.

I think all the above falls under the heading of what I like least. *grimace*  Like best? That's really hard to say. Any upsides are far outweighed by the price paid to have them. I'm enjoying seeing media stars working from home, seeing them without their makeup and lighting, seeing how far each goes in trying to preserve appearances, watching them make mistakes and how they handle that.

But I'll use the one word that most people wind up using: surreal. Good or bad, it's all weirdly surreal. Plus, I'm reading James Joyce's Ulysses, which only adds to the overall effect.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on May 09, 2020, 05:23:28 PM
The other day my therapist really made it clear for me that introverts are having a really much easier time with lockdown. Our energy comes from ourselves, and we're overflowing, hehe, while the poor extroverts are probably those that run outside at the very hint of sun, and spend hours in the queue for KFC and McDonald's when they recently re-opened the drive-throughs (and which I really don't get hehe)

I'm also more aware of how many different situations there are, but sometimes I just turn selfish and wanting everyone to act like me and really not understanding others - sorry if I've made anyone feel bad, it wasn't my intention

Earlier my dad did a quick video skype with me, he just had to show me his short hair ;D went to the barber's this morning, they re-opened this week, it was only the 2 of them in the shop so I guess it wasn't that bad
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: JMack on May 09, 2020, 07:34:14 PM
Mrs. JMack is about to cut my hair.  :o
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: isos81 on May 09, 2020, 08:56:31 PM
Mrs. JMack is about to cut my hair.  :o

My wife cut my hair, too but since it was a simple cut, we had no problem :)
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Skip on May 10, 2020, 05:44:07 AM
I just let it keep growing. Past my shoulder blades now. Don't never have to cut it 'cause it stops by itself.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on May 10, 2020, 03:42:46 PM
So the new message in the UK is "stay alert" - have you ever heard such a stupid thing? Stay alert to what?
Look out, the virus is coming! Pay attention, can't you see the virus walking around? What do you mean, you can't? Yes, that person can be infected, so stay alert! ::)
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: xiagan on May 10, 2020, 08:38:13 PM
There are so many unreasonable Germans on the streets and in the parks at the moment that I expect the need for some kind of lockdown in two weeks or so.  ::)
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: NightWrite on May 12, 2020, 12:21:50 AM
So I saw something on Pintrest that made me think, how will we treat birthday parties in the future. Specifically, blowing out candles on a cake which is then shared with everyone.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on May 12, 2020, 07:02:09 AM
So I saw something on Pintrest that made me think, how will we treat birthday parties in the future. Specifically, blowing out candles on a cake which is then shared with everyone.
I still believe in a future where covid-19 will be like measles or chicken pox, where everyone and then babies get vaccinated, and people still blow candles on cakes without fear of those diseases...
Optimist me?

I like his products, but the man is getting worse by the day..

Elon Musk reopens California Tesla factory in defiance of lockdown order (https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/may/11/tesla-factory-reopening-elon-musk-california-lockdown)

And this time Owen is hitting the nail right in the head: the latest orders don't make sense!
Boris Johnson's message to the working class: good luck out there (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/12/boris-johnson-working-class-good-luck)
"If you are a middle-class professional, then you can keep safely working from home, and whether you venture outside for leisure, exercise or sunbathing is entirely up to you. For everybody else, it’s time to get back to work, and best of luck!"

I really was trying to give the government the benefit of the doubt, they were doing their best, but I no longer believe that. I don't think they have any empathy/understanding of how other people who are not them are living at the moment...
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Rostum on May 12, 2020, 03:48:33 PM
Has lockdown in the UK worked? I have been working throughout with additional levels of PPE and cleaning. The job I am doing at the moment is definately blue collar allbeit with some financial and health responsibility.
At the time of writing the UK has had 224,332 detected cases and 32,141 deaths. Fourth highest detection rate and second highest deaths in the world. Either we needed far stricter lockdown or non at all as it has proved highly ineffective at preventing infection Our death rate is really worrying until you mitigate it with how good we are at keeping people alive who wouldn't be in a lot of other countries and the average age of out population.

If the primary purpose of the lockdown was to ensure the health service was not overwhelmed then it has been successful in that respect and probably, overall saved lives. Now we are better prepared and have hospital capacity it is OK for people to get sick at a faster rate. The reason this is Ok is we have no means of stopping it happening. Bankrupting the country will long term mean more people die of the virus as it will slow funding to potential cures or immunity treatments.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on May 12, 2020, 04:01:45 PM
I understand what you're saying, Rostum, and agree in a way: but it's not fair to send people to work who have no other option, without even the mandatory masks* in public transport and similar situations.

(* to protect others from our droplets, not to prevent droplets from entering us - at least with the cloth ones)
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: hexa on May 12, 2020, 08:16:12 PM
McDonald's plans to reopen all UK drive-throughs by June

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-mcdonald-s/mcdonalds-plans-to-reopen-all-uk-ireland-drive-throughs-by-june-idUSKBN22O2VQ?il=0
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Cherie on May 13, 2020, 10:09:23 AM
The freeze on the UK property market has been lifted as well, so that should help quite a lot of businesses resume operations.

I am conflicted though. Whilst it's good in many ways: my own house sale/purchase should pick up pace, and my employer can resume building and selling houses. I am also worried about some restrictions being relaxed too early, and whether we're going to get a 2nd spike.

Then I start worrying about actually getting the house packed up ready to move, as I can't physically do it all on my own (getting things out of the loft is a 2 person job), but under the social distancing rules Darren isn't actually allowed to come and pack his stuff.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on May 13, 2020, 10:47:43 AM
I thought of you when I heard the news about that, Cherie.
Many conflicting things, right?
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Cherie on May 13, 2020, 11:23:26 AM
I'm just trying to take it as it comes, it's not easy, but there's nothing else any of us can do at the moment. Worrying doesn't change anything. All it does for me is disrupt my sleep, upsets my stomach and generally makes me emotional and grumpy!
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: hexa on May 13, 2020, 05:23:34 PM
McDonald's begins reopening in UK

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-britain-mcdonalds/return-of-big-mac-mcdonalds-uk-emerges-from-lockdown-idUSKBN22P2HV?il=0
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on May 13, 2020, 05:28:39 PM
... because we all know McDonald's is an essential service ::) I hope they're not forcing anyone to works though, and those there want to be there and feel safe.

I'm now on furlough for 3 weeks.

I also found out I'm having my cancer check-up next week - it'll be interesting, the fear of being in a hospital with higher covid risk vs. fear of cancer returning so need the check... They told me I shouldn't arrive more than 5 minutes earlier, must go alone and go straight to the department.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: hexa on May 13, 2020, 06:26:49 PM
Do you have enough books for 3 weeks?
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on May 13, 2020, 06:48:57 PM
Oh definitely ;D
I've also been re-reading.

Anyway, I don't spend the whole time reading: today I went for a 45-min walk, hoovered, was online, watched TV...
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: S. K. Inkslinger on May 14, 2020, 04:59:44 AM
Oh definitely ;D
I've also been re-reading.

Anyway, I don't spend the whole time reading: today I went for a 45-min walk, hoovered, was online, watched TV...

I'm stuck with rereading these days as well, hahah. I think my staggering TBR pile is starting to give me stern glances by now, since there is no way that they'll start to get smaller soon.  ;D
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: hexa on May 14, 2020, 11:45:03 PM
Office Depot will close a third of its stores, permanently

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-office-depot-restructuring/office-depot-plans-store-closures-13100-job-cuts-by-2023-idUSKBN22Q3KC
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on May 16, 2020, 07:28:21 PM
I don't understand, honestly, I don't think it's me being difficult:
I was just watching the news and they showed a seaside town with many people, police saying "keep social distancing" (because of course it's more complicated than saying "keep 2m/6' apart", and why be simple?), but then fish and chip shops and ice cream places were open and serving to the public, without masks, distancing or anything!
The one they showed was wearing gloves, but it was just to touch the fish, and never removed them while handling everything else - basically this person picked up the carton, put fish and chips in, gave it to the customer, collected the money, gave change, always breathing and chatting, spreading droplets everywhere!
 ??? ::) :o
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: xiagan on May 16, 2020, 08:06:55 PM
I don't understand, honestly, I don't think it's me being difficult:
I was just watching the news and they showed a seaside town with many people, police saying "keep social distancing" (because of course it's more complicated than saying "keep 2m/6' apart", and why be simple?), but then fish and chip shops and ice cream places were open and serving to the public, without masks, distancing or anything!
The one they showed was wearing gloves, but it was just to touch the fish, and never removed them while handling everything else - basically this person picked up the carton, put fish and chips in, gave it to the customer, collected the money, gave change, always breathing and chatting, spreading droplets everywhere!
 ??? ::) :o
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dm6ZfHAXgAIDKL8.jpg)
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on May 18, 2020, 07:36:47 PM
I'd like to understand how testing will make people safer, why it's so important. I still don't get it.
Can someone help, point me in the direction of any scientific/reliable article about this?
I tried googling it, but I couldn't really find anything clear, just pages about the track&trace app...
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: xiagan on May 18, 2020, 09:23:30 PM
I'd like to understand how testing will make people safer, why it's so important. I still don't get it.
Can someone help, point me in the direction of any scientific/reliable article about this?
I tried googling it, but I couldn't really find anything clear, just pages about the track&trace app...

With sufficient testing, you can track the spread and isolate those who are positive and those they have likely infected. If you only test those with symptoms, you are always to late, because some who spread it don't have symptoms or develop them after they already have been contagious for a few days.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on May 18, 2020, 09:40:31 PM
I'd like to understand how testing will make people safer, why it's so important. I still don't get it.
Can someone help, point me in the direction of any scientific/reliable article about this?
I tried googling it, but I couldn't really find anything clear, just pages about the track&trace app...

With sufficient testing, you can track the spread and isolate those who are positive and those they have likely infected. If you only test those with symptoms, you are always to late, because some who spread it don't have symptoms or develop them after they already have been contagious for a few days.
Right, but doesn't that mean testing everybody regardless? And more than once (since someone could be clear in week 1 but then catch it and positive in week 3)?
I thought they are really only testing those with symptoms...
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Rostum on May 23, 2020, 01:06:27 PM
Once you know how a virus spreads and in what context you can create models. These are a possibility and become less accurate over time. If you were to test everyone for say a got it, not got it and had it test you can glean data that allows predictive mapping. You can determine an accurate infection rate and you can study in more detail interesting groups like those with antibodies showing they have had the virus  but who displayed no symptoms. Or people who have had it multiple times or people who have not cought it but have been in contact with those who have.

Even if you don't test everyone but have a pool that is in some way logical say everyone in a geography or all people in some nursing homes or hospitals useful data can be found that can be expanded to cover those not tested.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Caith on May 25, 2020, 06:42:40 AM
I've just been catching up on the whole Dominic Cummings thing. It feels like I've woken up in an episode of a political drama on TV. This is going to be a long week in politics for some people...
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on May 25, 2020, 09:24:22 AM
It's like the story of the Dark Lord that no matter how much evil he does, his army will always protect him... ::)
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Rostum on May 25, 2020, 12:00:10 PM
But, but rules are not meant for us1 we make the rules.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on May 25, 2020, 06:54:37 PM
I just watched a bit of the conference, he actually gives me the creeps :-\
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on May 27, 2020, 07:00:00 PM
Why aren't masks/cloths mandatory in the UK, in supermarkets, shops and other locations when you know you can't maintain your distance?
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Rostum on May 27, 2020, 09:24:42 PM
A mask protects others from you and it needs to meet FFP2/N95 standard and be fitted properly or it will let virus molecules through. Good luck finding those at the moment and getting people to wear them properly if you could.

America seems to think cotton bandana's will somehow be effective and some states just require a face covering which will not really help but 'something has been seen to be done'. Social distance and minimize your shopping are the best bet at the moment. Unlike the couple pushing their baby round Tesco yesterday who seemed to think it was an allowed social experience.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: xiagan on May 27, 2020, 09:43:34 PM
A mask protects others from you and it needs to meet FFP2/N95 standard and be fitted properly or it will let virus molecules through. Good luck finding those at the moment and getting people to wear them properly if you could.

America seems to think cotton bandana's will somehow be effective and some states just require a face covering which will not really help but 'something has been seen to be done'. Social distance and minimize your shopping are the best bet at the moment. Unlike the couple pushing their baby round Tesco yesterday who seemed to think it was an allowed social experience.
That's simply not true and a dangerous narrative. Even a simple cotton mask holds back most of the virus (if it's changed when it becomes wet) and you can clearly see how countries who made them mandatory early (Czech Rep for example)  had no major outbreak. Czechs had no masks to buy so they had to make them themselves.
Often the only difference between tightly woven cotton and FFPS is a certificate.
Here it's mandatory to wear masks in public transportation and while shopping and most wear masks that are self-made.

(https://external-preview.redd.it/3EcrgXYFRQNq2MJ81rNw5fIHFz3FMcKcc1JkRHuiBWc.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=00fffb7b8e9011c1c9406e9a776ab9f3278a1792)
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on May 27, 2020, 10:05:25 PM
Yes, I also agree with the cloth masks for everyone, to protect others.
I got 2 strong cotton ones, with a net to add a tissue, that my cousin sewed and my dad sent me. I wore it to the hospital and when I go to the supermarket.
Having the mask also helps with not touching my face.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Rostum on May 29, 2020, 10:31:58 AM
Quote
That's simply not true and a dangerous narrative. Even a simple cotton mask holds back most of the virus (if it's changed when it becomes wet) and you can clearly see how countries who made them mandatory early (Czech Rep for example)  had no major outbreak. Czechs had no masks to buy so they had to make them themselves.
Often the only difference between tightly woven cotton and FFPS is a certificate.
Here it's mandatory to wear masks in public transportation and while shopping and most wear masks that are self-made.

The Key word is effective and it's a subjective one. N95 means it stops 95% of airborne particles entering or more importantly leaving the mask. It's not perfect, and they are rated at 0.3 microns. The virus particle is 0.1 micron but when aerosolled it is likely to attach itself to dust particles in the air which are large enough to be blocked. There is also an electrostatic element to this which mean particles will be attracted or repelled dependent on charge which is why it's important to change out a mask when it gets moist.

N95 is not a certificate it is a standard and it is a guarantee that the masks you as the manufacturer make comply with that standard. They are periodically tested (at great expense) to ensure that is the case. 

Making masks mandatory but having no standard for the masks will work to an unknown degree, if people actually cover their mouth and nose with them and use the wire strip correctly.

Bandanas, which is sit away from the nose and cheeks are likely wholly ineffective at protecting the wearer and give very limited protection to everyone else.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on May 29, 2020, 07:42:05 PM
Rostum, we're not talking about 100%, or even 95%, protection, that's impossible. It's rather about a strong reduction of the risk
If everyone is wearing a mask/face covering plus keeping the distance whenever possible, the risk of getting the virus is heavily reduced, just like in Xiagan's pee diagram.

If you think that's not true, feel free to continue to isolate, but I don't think that's what you meant.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Rostum on May 29, 2020, 09:00:27 PM
And the point I am making is people think they are safe because they slap a bandana on or put on a mask without fitting it, and they are no safer than not using them, but feel safer as a result.

I was not disparaging home made masks which usually have at least 4 folds of tight weave material and have been used in hospitals when required but the loose fold of bandana stylishly in front of the lower face is not even paying lip service to the requirements.

Follow the rules and you are safer to a point. Everyone's acceptable risk will be different. I seem to remember someone earlier in the thread saying that the people who seemed the least concerned and most likely to break social distancing rules were those with masks and gloves. I would speculate they do so as they feel safe in their protective gear.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Skip on May 30, 2020, 08:54:47 PM
> ...  people think they are safe ...

Some people do. Some people think they're safe without them entirely. Some people think it's all a hoax. Other people think they aren't safe no matter what.

People think all sorts of things. And no one knows for certain, for every situation and every individual.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on May 31, 2020, 07:06:26 PM
I have no words.
Watching the news now and seeing huge crowds on beaches, in picnic areas, on the coast... Interviews and they're saying "We don't really care about the rules anymore, I just want to go out, I've been home for 2 months, etc"
Are they really that stupid that they think this is just about rules and following the law? It's your health, you morons!!!
Already just because you can do, doesn't mean you should do, much less when you can't...

And in these places it's not about "restarting the economy", which I understand it's important - but I no longer worry about not contributing when the shops reopen (I'm not going anytime soon), there will be enough volunteers that will pay to get covid ::)
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Skip on May 31, 2020, 11:56:12 PM
It's troubling to me because I know the great majority of people in those places will in fact *not* get sick. Many won't get the disease at all. Of those, many won't get symptoms or will get such mild ones that they won't bother to get tested. All those people will look at their friends and neighbors and say "see? told you!" and go right on doing what they do. Even in the great plague of the 1340s, only about a third died. That means two-thirds lived.

But *some* of them will get sick. And *some* will pass it on to others who stayed away and tried to stay safe. And some of those will die or will get so sick as to change the course of their lives permanently. And the culprits won't even see it.

What I see on the beaches etc is people being people. Especially young people being young. The part that makes me angry is the governing authorities who threw open the doors. IMO, every one of those people who authorized openings should be required to spend every day thereafter among the throngs. I wouldn't even feel sorry for them as they sickened.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on June 01, 2020, 08:17:36 AM
Thanks Skip, your post is the rational description of my emotional heartburst...

On a lighter note, I just read this article and it's very funny/interesting:

A bow and a curtsy: How Jane Austen’s age of social distancing reflects our own (https://www.penguin.co.uk/articles/2020/may/gill-hornby-jane-austen-miss-austen-social-distancing.html)
Quote
Historical fiction seems so much more relevant these days. They lived with the ever-present fear of contagion, which ranged the country unchecked. And, for the first time in our lives, we’re in their shoes.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Peat on June 02, 2020, 02:39:52 PM
My boss just said we're probably not back in the office this side of Christmas.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Cherie on June 02, 2020, 08:43:58 PM
7 months. Wow. That's a long time!

I was hoping to be back this week, but it's unlikely to be this month. I'm accounts payable, so at the moment, there are very few invoices to be processed, unless our merchants can get materials onto site quicker and more reliably than they have been able for the last few weeks.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: JMack on June 03, 2020, 02:13:15 AM
I keep buying things to upgrade my home office: big screen, Yeti microphone, knock-off “Aeron” chair, and a platform for my laptop to raise it to the level of the big monitor. I’d buy a Logitech webcam, if they weren’t sold out everywhere. Then I need to think about lighting. It’s pretty crap in my office for Zoom video calls.

Mrs. JMack would prefer I never go back in the office (as long as they keep paying me  ;)
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: The Gem Cutter on June 03, 2020, 04:43:44 PM
My point is that everyone, everywhere in America, should be prepared for violence and civil unrest in the weeks and months ahead.

Nailed it.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on June 03, 2020, 05:33:43 PM
My point is that everyone, everywhere in America, should be prepared for violence and civil unrest in the weeks and months ahead.

Nailed it.
Oh come on, in your original post you were talking about the virus, and what's happening is not related to that! You're no psychic ;D
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: The Gem Cutter on June 03, 2020, 07:28:56 PM
If you don’t think people being cooped up, afraid for health and employment reasons, and all the rest, are not a huge part of what we are seeing, I disagree.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Bender on June 03, 2020, 07:31:14 PM
The Floyd video is quite depressing and would flame anger by default. I don't think Covid depression has any part to play in current protests.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Peat on June 03, 2020, 08:36:55 PM
I'm not sure I'd say TGC is definitely wrong about it playing a part - very hard to prove - but I don't think it was needed for what has happened to have happened. Maybe it's made things worse, but I think you could have given everyone in the world a week off work with a free supply of weed and E and things would have still kicked off with that trigger.

7 months. Wow. That's a long time!

I was hoping to be back this week, but it's unlikely to be this month. I'm accounts payable, so at the moment, there are very few invoices to be processed, unless our merchants can get materials onto site quicker and more reliably than they have been able for the last few weeks.

Yeah.

We were told we could go back in if we wanted providing not too many of us, but basically we can only have 2 people per bank of 6 computers so only so many people can go in. I guess if I wanted I could do that 1 or 2 days a week, just to cure the feeling of every day fading into each other, but I'm not sure I'd even want to.

But even so, feels pretty heavy to be working from home this long.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on June 03, 2020, 08:49:14 PM
Sorry, we'll have to agree to disagree.
Unless Americans are very different - Europe has had lockdown for over 2 months and there haven't been protests or riots on this scale.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Skip on June 04, 2020, 05:54:33 AM
The U.S. has deep cultural divisions, an incompetent government, the highest death rate from the virus, and the highest unemployment. Europeans and American have their differences, but those differences pale in comparison to the differences in socio-economic conditions. Different conditions usually lead to different results.

I sincerely hope no European nation ever has to go through what we've been enduring. And yes, I know we brought it on ourselves.

Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Caith on June 04, 2020, 08:44:57 AM
The UK has deep cultural divisions - if by divisions you mean the difference between the elite, the top 1% and the rest of us.
The UK has an incompetent government - check - see next point for evidence of same.
The UK has the highest COVID death rate in Europe and we're close to the top in the world.
High unemployment? - not yet but stick around for a few months.

Not so different conditions between the US and UK? Maybe we're closer to civil unrest than we think? What's happened in the US with the demonstrations appears to have happened remarkably quickly and on first inspection seems to have come from nowhere. Thats what tipping points tend to loook like. You don't know you're at one until its too late.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Rostum on June 04, 2020, 02:11:42 PM
Just a point or two.

To be in the global 1% you need cash or assets in excess of $850,000 about the price of a garage in Islington, you know the trendy bit of London where Labours manifesto is drawn up. and the cultural differences are?

Politics has very little to do with Government, the machine is largely unchanged despite which MPs are involved.

How about considering why the UK and USA have such high death rates? Are our health services so poor? Are they treating an ageing and unhealthy population? Are we detecting and treating a lot of the underlying conditions that are missed or not there in other countries populations? Are we reporting Covid as the cause of death accurately?

In April the UK spent as much as it spent in 2019. This will inevitably have an effect, but probably not as much in the UK as in the USA. Our economies are very different and thankfully the safeguards here much greater.
The traditional way of getting out of recession or depression is growth in the economy and part of that process is governments printing bonds. I wonder will there be a Euro bond that levels the wealth of those partaking in this currency or will the 4 or so countries that actually pay in to the EU protect their own economies over those of southern and Eastern Europe? Brexit could be very secondary to the economic fragmentation of the EU.

Quote
Not so different conditions between the US and UK? Maybe we're closer to civil unrest than we think? What's happened in the US with the demonstrations appears to have happened remarkably quickly and on first inspection seems to have come from nowhere. That's what tipping points tend to look like. You don't know you're at one until it's too late.

This is very interesting to me. I suspect we get our news and commentary from very different sources. I would say that this situation has been inevitable since the LA riots in America and largely because 'lessons were not learned'and while we have had race riots in the UK I don't see the same factors in the UK as in  the USA
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Skip on June 04, 2020, 04:10:50 PM
I'm not sure if we're talking about the protests against Covid lockdowns or the protests against police brutality. We've got both.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Rostum on June 04, 2020, 05:02:19 PM
Is there a clear line delineating the two any more?
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Skip on June 04, 2020, 10:02:28 PM
Absolutely there's a clear line. Two completely different factions, which speaks to one of the several cultural divides in America. Also, there are distinctions to be made among those who are out on the streets, both now and in the earlier anti-lockdown movements.

The devil often lurks in the details, but so does understanding.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: xiagan on June 05, 2020, 08:58:11 AM
I don't think @The Gem Cutter is so wrong. There is a (so far unprecedented in newer history) crisis because of Corona and existing problems like police brutality, racial inequality, a healthcare system that is as bad as it is expensive or class warfare - which were simmering until now, suddenly ignite and explode. A crisis always exposes the weak points in a system and the US has/had a lot of those weak points. Stressed and combined, it's really not that surprising and I think the USA are at a breaking point/crossroads now.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Peat on June 05, 2020, 09:28:36 AM
I'm not sure if we're talking about the protests against Covid lockdowns or the protests against police brutality. We've got both.

Man, I'd completely forgotten those anti-lockdown protests were a thing. But yeah, they were, and they were totally different. And crazy.

Although I guess not that crazy if you're someone who thinks the key virtue of the US should be the freedom to do things and to distrust anything looking to take it away.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Skip on June 05, 2020, 04:36:56 PM
> the key virtue of the US should be the freedom to do things
Emphatically not our key virtue, though there are those who do believe that. "Freedom to do things" is the ideal of middle schoolers.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Rostum on June 06, 2020, 12:14:52 AM
Absolutely there's a clear line. Two completely different factions, which speaks to one of the several cultural divides in America. Also, there are distinctions to be made among those who are out on the streets, both now and in the earlier anti-lockdown movements.

The devil often lurks in the details, but so does understanding.


The way its being commented on here in the UK a lot of Americans are angry and protesting some have been very eloquent in the why others not so much. A lot just seem angry and scared and are facing an uncertain future.

A lot of the tacticool brigade whom the BBC in particular like to paint as gun toting fascists seem to totally support the protest of Floyds death but are prepared to shoot looters should things turn violent in their neighbourhoods. Only in America! It is a sign of how far out of step the police are with the public opinion.

Moving over to a more appropriate thread for some thoughts on this.

http://fantasy-faction.com/forum/general-discussion/politics-and-other-ailments-of-the-real-world/ (http://fantasy-faction.com/forum/general-discussion/politics-and-other-ailments-of-the-real-world/)

Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Peat on June 06, 2020, 10:15:36 AM
> the key virtue of the US should be the freedom to do things
Emphatically not our key virtue, though there are those who do believe that. "Freedom to do things" is the ideal of middle schoolers.

Without disagreeing with you on how it should be, it feels like there's a need for a big discussion on that in America. Not that it's alone in having a major faultline split in terms of national self-image.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on June 06, 2020, 06:48:53 PM
Can we have these installed everywhere, please?

http://www.odo.co/dropkick (http://www.odo.co/dropkick)
"Dropkick, a pedestrian button that is designed to be kicked, was birthed out of an observation that pedestrian crossing buttons get kicked by users reluctant to use their bare hands."

The other day I was trying to cross a road, and the light would only turn green if I pressed the button, and I *really* didn't want to do that... ended up using my elbow, but on the way back it was a different setting and my elbow wasn't thin enough to trigger the button, hehe, had to use my finger covered by a bit of jacket.

(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5796b16a414fb50f6b591bee/1588554801509-O1NZC4PRKHIS6BAEPQKX/ke17ZwdGBToddI8pDm48kJUlZr2Ql5GtSKWrQpjur5t7gQa3H78H3Y0txjaiv_0fDoOvxcdMmMKkDsyUqMSsMWxHk725yiiHCCLfrh8O1z5QPOohDIaIeljMHgDF5CVlOqpeNLcJ80NK65_fV7S1UfNdxJhjhuaNor070w_QAc94zjGLGXCa1tSmDVMXf8RUVhMJRmnnhuU1v2M8fLFyJw/05.jpg?format=2500w)
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Magnus Hedén on June 06, 2020, 10:07:00 PM
Buttons on pedestrian lights are placebos in most places. The lights activate go by sensors, but whenever the buttons were removed, people were upset. So they put the buttons back but they don't actually do anything, and people were happy again because they felt they were in control.

Silly humans.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on June 06, 2020, 10:28:20 PM
Buttons on pedestrian lights are placebos in most places. The lights activate go by sensors, but whenever the buttons were removed, people were upset. So they put the buttons back but they don't actually do anything, and people were happy again because they felt they were in control.

Silly humans.
Oh in many locations that is definitely true! I remember when I lived in the other flat and walked to work every day, there was a crossroads that always turned red/green on a given schedule, but still there was a button for pedestrians and people still clicked it and expected the green, even though it didn't do anything.
This one I mentioned was definitely just activated by the button, and would never turn green to pedestrians otherwise, as it wasn't at a crossroad.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Rostum on June 07, 2020, 12:13:49 PM
Pretty sure a photocell could be used and easily retrofitted into existing poles.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: hexa on June 14, 2020, 07:35:45 PM
London Zoo reopens on Monday

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-virus-britain-zoo/need-a-bit-more-human-contact-so-do-london-zoos-gorillas-idUSKBN23L0LX
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on June 15, 2020, 12:57:38 PM
Any hopes I had of a slightly different society after the lockdown are crushed as I see the crowds and queues and everyone almost fighting to get inside clothes and shoe shops...
 ::)
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Cherie on June 15, 2020, 02:27:04 PM
Unfortunately, the vast majority of people just want everything to go back to how things were before lockdown. I can understand it, as change is not only difficult, but also unwelcome for many.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on June 19, 2020, 08:00:58 AM
Yesterday on the radio I heard someone say that the dividing line between people who feel comfortable going around the shops, going back to pubs and restaurants when they open, and generally not being scared and the others who are anxious and wary and worried, is age. She said up to 40-45 people didn't care anymore.

At first I agreed, being above the limit and feeling as I was "supposed to feel" for that age group, but after thinking about it some more I realised it's far too simplistic.
I think the dividing line is far more along the lines of economic ability and job situation.

If you have no other option but to go out to work, since you can't work from home and you need to earn to live, you can't be living in a state of constant anxiety, so you make yourself think that things are better, easier - and if you think like that about going to work, why not the nicer things, like going to the shops and eat out?

And of course health situation. Even if you're young, if you have health problems you're not be going back to normal anytime soon.

And so I realised I'm privileged once again, on both counts, and I shouldn't be dismissive of people acting differently to myself...
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Caith on June 19, 2020, 10:15:45 AM
I think you're right, it is more complicated than age difference and I would have thought it has a lot to do with perception of risk, whether real or imagined.  For a lot of people, the risk of the virus has receded but the risk of  poverty has grown.

Being able to do normal things again must be a comfort and a reinforcement of both self-held  and social signals that the worst of the epidemic is past. I think we'll start to see the lockdown melting away more quickly over the next while, as our collective consensus over it does the same.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Skip on June 19, 2020, 03:36:00 PM
There's a good deal of evidence that shows a person's brain is still developing up to around age 25, and that one signal characteristic of the under-25 is less awareness of consequences, a still-developing ability to consider the long term and to be considerate of others. Add to that the widespread behavior of younger people to consider going out drinking an important form of entertainment and socializing, and a certain natural resistance to authority, and it's easy to see why they are over-represented among those who were first out of the gates.

I don't know that I would extend the line up into 40-45, though. I'm not sure what the evidence would be for that.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Rostum on June 20, 2020, 01:01:20 PM
Certainly at 20 I was immortal and behaved as such, now I figure I have 20 years or so left and that influences my decisions. I don't like or believe this privilege argument. You were born into a body in Western Europe, had  access to good healthcare, education and likely enough to eat. All beyond your control and likely better than 90% of the planets' population.

Someone with an underlying health issues may have all you had and more but got an unfortunate mix of genes or breathed the wrong stuff or just got sick and had to live with the consequences. If they had been born within that other 90% they may well have already been dead, never been diagnosed or lead a shorter lifespan
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on June 25, 2020, 09:44:41 AM
Libraries can also open from the 4th July.

I feel somehow hypocrite for wanting to go there after my comments on people and shops, then I realised what I want (for everything) is every place just for myself ;D

If I pick up books, then leave them untouched for at least 3 days, any virus should have died - like groceries.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Magnus Hedén on June 25, 2020, 10:17:19 AM
I wipe or rinse everything I bring from the store with water and dish soap (then rinse with water of course). Anything that dissolves fat will kill the virus pretty much instantly.

I also rinse my nose cavity every time I've been out among people (usually just the once a week to shop for groceries for my parents and myself) as that's how the virus is most likely to get a foothold in your body (assuming you're not touching your face); you breathe it in, it multiplies in your nose cavity (which takes a bit of time), then spreads to the rest of the body.

So far, so good. The more I hear about the effects, particularly the potential for long-term complications, of this virus, the more I want to stay away from it for my own sake as well as for my father's (who's old and has multiple illnesses).

That being said, there hasn't really been a big threat down here in the south of Sweden, and now the worst has passed (for now) without there being a crisis here. Stockholm was a disaster -- there should definitely have been harsher measures there, and the virus getting into so many old people's homes was a big failure. But down here, even the peak didn't see much pressure at the intensive care units, and now cases have dwindled.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on June 25, 2020, 09:06:44 PM
I said I wasn't going to criticise people anymore, but this?
People are MORONS! >:(

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/1168E/production/_113101317_hi062133276.jpg)
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Skip on June 26, 2020, 12:30:33 AM
True Fact #83:  Not all people are morons, but all morons are people.

It's worth noting that it doesn't take but a few hundred people (ok, maybe a few thousand) to fill the lens of a camera. What the camera doesn't show is the millions of people who are being careful and staying home.

True, it only takes those few thousand to affect many thousands. But if you're looking for a reason to feel more positive, just remember all those folks who are home.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: xiagan on June 26, 2020, 01:32:35 PM
I said I wasn't going to criticise people anymore, but this?
People are MORONS! >:(

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/1168E/production/_113101317_hi062133276.jpg)

I wouldn't go to that Beach in normal times! How can anybody enjoy this?
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on June 26, 2020, 01:48:59 PM
Definitely! I was talking with a colleague this morning and we were saying that those crowds are enough to keep us away at any time, much less now
(and by the way Skip, I saw video footage, it was really like that hehe)

Yesterday I went for a walk in the village and in the small river/waterfall there was a group of about 20 young teenagers swimming, no distance for them either.
They'll most probably won't get it, but who's to say they're not carriers and take it home to parents and grandparents?
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Cherie on June 26, 2020, 01:50:15 PM
That amount of people is my idea of hell at the best of times. Plus it's a pebble beach, so it's damn uncomfortable
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Caith on June 26, 2020, 06:13:39 PM
You can draw a straight and fairly short line from that picture, through the Dominic Cummings scandal, back to an incompetent leader who cares more about his poll ratings than taking the difficult and unpopular decisons needed during a national crisis.

I read a comment not so long back that struck a chord. It said that it is a government's job to govern, irrespective of how unpopular it makes them. Instead, the Johnson government appears to be stuck in campaigning mode, a place where they are both successful and more comfortable. Unfortunately, Covid19, unlike Brexit,  isn't receptive to three word slogans, lies and bluster.

The lockdown, to all intents and purposes, is over and we're left with increasingly complex and weak advice to follow or disregard, as it suits our instincts. I don't condone what the folk on the beach have done, but I can easily understand it.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Elfy on June 27, 2020, 04:43:32 AM
That amount of people is my idea of hell at the best of times. Plus it's a pebble beach, so it's damn uncomfortable
Not a fan of crowded beaches at any time. In fact Lejays17 and I go out of our way to find fairly sparsely attended beaches during our summer.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Magnus Hedén on June 27, 2020, 08:17:39 AM
Going to a packed summer beach is high up there on my list of personal hells. You have to bring your own shade, any food you bring will have sand on it, sure bathing is nice but then the sand sticks to you, you're surrounded by lots of people (ugh, people), my pale ass needs half a bottle of industrial-strength sunscreen (makes the sand stick) or I'm lucky if I go full-on lobster and don't skip right to blisters, and as a bonus no matter what you do you go home with sand in your butt crack.  ???  ;D

So yeah, won't be a problem here either. We have a massive sand beach where I live. I have no doubt in the current sunny weather it's packed.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on June 27, 2020, 04:43:03 PM
^ Exactly, same thing when I hear about "beach weddings": so awful, sand everywhere! ;D

In Portugal they set up a limit on number of people allowed on each beach, with entrances and an easily seen flag system: green for having plenty of room, yellow for find a place, red for beach is full, you can't come in. Info online too.
I suppose England couldn't be bothered, given the small number of beach days...
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: SugoiMe on June 28, 2020, 08:35:32 PM
There were 69 new cases of covid in Edmonton (Canada) just yesterday. We had mostly flattened the curve until yesterday, but I think people were getting lax and forgetting that there's this pandemic going on as well as the province starting to open up after the craziness of the past few months.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: cupiscent on June 29, 2020, 12:12:07 AM
We're having a resurgence here in Melbourne as well, as things start to open up a little. Interestingly, the blame seems to be being put on "family gatherings" which I can certainly see as being a big contagion vector, given number of people + ignoring distancing.

My personal annoyance right now is that, as things open up, other diseases are also being communicated again. See also: my child has picked up a cold and now I have to take her to get tested for covid, and how on earth do I explain to a tetchy four-year-old that someone has to stick a swab that far up her nose??
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on June 29, 2020, 07:57:44 AM
Over 10 million cases in the world.
Over half a million deaths.

>500,000 :o :o :'(
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: hexa on June 29, 2020, 10:06:56 PM
A new swine flu has been discovered in China

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-53218704
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Rostum on July 01, 2020, 11:33:19 AM
The first of many perhaps. China is going through a boom at the moment while pretty much the rest of the world is in recession heading for depression. Economically we are paying for exporting all our pollution manufacturing there.

Leicester is on local lockdown after a resurgence there the rest of the country eases restrictions in a couple of days we wait to see what happens.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Skip on July 01, 2020, 05:40:56 PM
Not the first of many but another in a continuing series. I have yet to see a Western government that has accepted this reality. A few governments in the East (South Korea comes to mind) appear to recognize that major viral outbreaks and regular pandemics are simply part of modern life. We keep behaving as if each is a separate problem to lick separately.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Rostum on July 01, 2020, 08:32:40 PM
Absolutely correct but sars, Mirs, et al. were a bit disappointing. Keeping us sick makes China rich so what's their motivation not to? A few million of their own dead would hardly slow them down.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Skip on July 02, 2020, 05:23:20 AM
>Keeping us sick makes China rich so what's their motivation not to?

Oh good grief. How do you sell to a dead man?

Not every bad thing that happens to the privileged is the product of nefarious design. And it's not China's fault the U.S. is behaving stupidly. Who foiled China's clever plot against New Zealand?

I repeat: oh good grief.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: xiagan on July 02, 2020, 08:49:32 AM
(https://i.redd.it/hd8vpjxgga851.png)
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on July 03, 2020, 07:48:53 PM
I just found out that tomorrow the pubs will open at 6am :o
I fear how things will be by midday, but whatever, politicians know best ::)

I'm still amazed when I see all news reports from towns and cities and everybody calmly walking about without masks or anything, as if life's back to normal and Covid-19 never existed...
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: NightWrite on July 08, 2020, 04:21:54 PM
I've been trying to seriously cut back on my internet and news intake for the past week or so to try and curb my anxieties dealing with the pandemic. Everything seemed fine until this morning when I woke up from a nightmare. In it, Siren head had decided to snatch me from my bedroom to shout all sorts of facts and quotes about the pandemic at me (in various voices from friends and family, to journalist and politicians) with one of its loudspeakers. The other was just letting off a cacophony of moaning, coughing, heart monitor beeps, and raspy gasps for breath.

For those who've never heard of it, Siren head is a cryptid/horror baby attributed to Canadian illustrator Trevor Henderson. Basically, it's described as a giant (40 ft) skeletal, mummified humanoid creature with a pole, wires, and at least two loudspeakers in place of a head and neck. It likes to lurk in forested areas and replicate noises like tornado sirens and people's voices with its loudspeakers to lure in prey to do various brutal things to.

This is actually the first nightmare I've had in a long time, not just tied to the pandemic. But it just felt so real and raw. And I'm just hoping it was more because I've been ignoring things so I don't breakdown every other day and not simply a new trend. I know better than to hide from my emotions and feelings, but I couldn't help it this time it seems.

I figured mentioning it here might help some, which admittedly just typing this out has helped (in addition to talking with my sister about it).

Edit - I forgot to mention that the nightmare did have a lighter side to it, one of my first thoughts waking up was "****** could've at least worn some masks." Which I found hilarious once I got myself oriented.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on July 08, 2020, 07:22:43 PM
That image is scaring me even just with reading :o

I hope that was a one-off and you sleep better now.

As for the masks, I agree so much! I'm still flabbergasted at the images of pubs and restaurants reopening here, and no one wearing masks - in particular the employees, who breathe and talk over the glasses and plates!
No amount of vouchers and discounts will make me go there...
I wonder if I'm the odd one, if I'm being too scared, too fearful... nobody else seems to care.

Cherie, I thought of you when I heard about the stamp duty news, that will help you, right?
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: NightWrite on July 08, 2020, 09:58:36 PM
For all the complaints of economic uncertainty and people not being able to pay vital bills, it seems nothing can stop the multiple weeks long cacophony that is excessive home-brewed firework displays. In fact, they seem more frequent and intense this year.

I'm all for celebrating we're all still alive, and to honor those lost and the heroes of the pandemic. But if I had to chose the means of how we all celebrated, I'd rather stop having to medicate my dog so he doesn't stress himself to death.

As for the masks, I agree so much! I'm still flabbergasted at the images of pubs and restaurants reopening here, and no one wearing masks - in particular the employees, who breathe and talk over the glasses and plates!
No amount of vouchers and discounts will make me go there...
I wonder if I'm the odd one, if I'm being too scared, too fearful... nobody else seems to care.

You're not odd, at least to me. I certainly still slip a mask on when I go into a building to reduce the likelihood I'm spreading anything. And crowds of more than a handful of people still stirs up my anxiety something fierce.

People just want normalcy again, don't want to face what our world has become, even if it means putting themselves and others at risk. It doesn't help that many of them live in the mindset of "I can't get sick" or "It won't be that bad if I catch it." Or some other version.

Certain world leaders certainly aren't helping either....
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: cupiscent on July 09, 2020, 05:11:49 AM
Soooo Melbourne is back in stage-three lockdown - which means don't leave your house if you can help it, essential shopping, work, education and exercise permitted. It's a bummer, especially as term 3 is coming up and limited activities were going to recommence for my small one, but it's very necessary as we've been having a real spike in cases. So six weeks (at least) of lockdown it is.

I feel really sorry for the businesses that fronted up to reopen for barely five weeks before having to shut down again. There's some govt support in place, but I don't know if it will be enough to keep them all afloat.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Cherie on July 09, 2020, 04:33:48 PM
I can see there being a second wave in the UK, and I can't help worrying how much that would bring our economy to its knees. At the moment, there's no right answer in how to keep businesses going, and keep the virus under some kind of control. I know it's selfish, but I do worry about the future.

Cherie, I thought of you when I heard about the stamp duty news, that will help you, right?
Yes and no. My purchase completed last Friday, so before the new rates, so I've still had to pay a lump of stamp duty. However, Darren's purchase isn't due to complete until next week, so as he's saving a lot more than that in stamp duty on his purchase, he's going to give me back the amount I paid.
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: ScarletBea on July 09, 2020, 08:39:25 PM
Oh, I was confused, I thought you were still looking for a place!
Great that it's completed, when are you planning to move? These are the best days, when all the faff has been done and we can focus on decoration and tidying things ;D
Title: Re: The Virus thread
Post by: Cherie on July 10, 2020, 09:31:50 AM
I moved last Friday. I definitely felt more comfortable having people I know helping me move everything, rather than complete strangers. Not only for the fact of looking after my stuff, but for just not having to be in close proximity of people.

I'm also back at work from Monday, although it's only part time - 3 days of hours split over 4 days - nothing has been mentioned about wearing masks in the office, although I have some ready to use. And there's only going to be a maximum of 4 regulars in the office, with another couple of people who are only ever in for brief visits. Out of a normal 13 with another 3 occasionally. The actual size of the office has been increased as well, as we've clawed some space back from the unit next door for our own use. This was planned well before the virus, but the renovations have been done over lockdown, so perfect timing really.