Remains of Richard III Found

[Stars Cascade]

History is written by the Victor. I'm not for or against him, though I will say the Tudors smeared his name 3 ways from sunday, and it'd be nice to find out a little more based on truth. The Tudors had him depicted as a hunchback amongst other things, the skeletal remains show that he had no hunch. That's a rather large and obvious misrepresentation to start with. 

It showed he had a curved spine, so its less a misrepresentation than an exagerration.

The curve wasn't located in a position that would cause a hunch. It would be painful but no hunch.

[AnneLyle]

The Tudors had him depicted as a hunchback amongst other things

Not strictly true - the Tudors called him "Crookback", which could refer to his actual spinal deformity (the word "hunchback" is 18th-century). I'm not sure when that knowledge morphed into the caricature presented by Shakespeare, but it's clearly propaganda that grew in the telling...

[Idlewilder]

History is written by the Victor. I'm not for or against him, though I will say the Tudors smeared his name 3 ways from sunday, and it'd be nice to find out a little more based on truth. The Tudors had him depicted as a hunchback amongst other things, the skeletal remains show that he had no hunch. That's a rather large and obvious misrepresentation to start with. 

It showed he had a curved spine, so its less a misrepresentation than an exagerration.

The curve wasn't located in a position that would cause a hunch. It would be painful but no hunch.

I thought it was that there was a hunch, but just that it wouldn't likely have been visible with clothing on?

I suppose the reason he was known for it (before the Tudors and Shakespeare decided to turn him into an evil hunchback with a withered arm) was that:

1. He was a royal, and always in the eye of the court, even before being King. Other nobles would have been aware of his hunch right from when it was evident, regardless of whether it was particularly visible.
2. It's possible that his armour was specifically made to accomodate the hunch - wearing armour is a completely different thing to normal clothing. The sheer weight of it may have been an issue for someone with Scoliosis, so I suppose it's possible that his armour looked hunched, due to his specific physical requirements?

[AnneLyle]

If you see photos of a person with the kind of scoliosis he had, they generally have a more-or-less upright torso but shorter than it would be without the curve, and with one shoulder higher than the other. All you have to do to imagine what he looked like is to keep your back upright and bend to the left so that your right shoulder tips upwards 

If he'd lived longer, it might have developed into a hunch, but in a young person with good musculature, it tends not to show so much.

He therefore probably wouldn't have had a noticeable hunch when dressed, but his proportions would have been a little "out" because of the shortened torso. He would definitely have needed custom armour to fit his proportions, but then that would have been usual for all noblemen. His brother, Edward IV, was 6'4" - you don't buy that size armour off the peg!

[Idlewilder]

He wouldn't have had a noticeable hunch when dressed, but his proportions would have been a little "out" because of the shortened torso. He would definitely have needed custom armour to fit his proportions, but then that would have been usual for all noblemen. His brother, Edward IV, was 6'4" - you don't buy that size armour off the peg!

Yes, but custom armour related to a hunch had a lot more connotations in that period than custom armour for someone who is 6'4".

[AnneLyle]

It's all speculation at this point, since AFAIK we don't have any of his armour* - he was reckoned to be an excellent fighter despite his slight build

* You'd think that if it showed his deformity clearly, the Tudors would have kept it. Maybe it was destroyed because it didn't match the image they wanted to convey?

[Idlewilder]

It's all speculation at this point, since AFAIK we don't have any of his armour* - he was reckoned to be an excellent fighter despite his slight build

* You'd think that if it showed his deformity clearly, the Tudors would have kept it. Maybe it was destroyed because it didn't match the image they wanted to convey?

With the state they found the bones in, it wouldn't surprise me to find that they stripped the corpse and flogged it - who knows what they did with his armour?

[AnneLyle]

With the state they found the bones in, it wouldn't surprise me to find that they stripped the corpse and flogged it - who knows what they did with his armour?

It's well attested from contemporary records that they stripped his corpse on the battlefield - most likely the armour was looted by some enterprising Lancastrian.

[Idlewilder]

This column piece on the Guardian annoyed me...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/charlottehigginsblog/2013/feb/04/richardiii-archaeology-leicester-scepticism

[the_hound]

Yeah, a deliberately cynical argument.  Yes he or she is right there is more to the study of history and archaleogy than just famous historical figures, but it doe n't stop it from being exciting and if it gets more interest in history than that can only be a good thing.

[Stars Cascade]

I'm just excited at the prospect of finding out more about English History that was thought lost to us.

Whether he was a good man or a hideous hunchback who did terrible things, He was an important figure in English history and one we know little about - factually speaking.
If we now have a chance to find out some truths about him rather than heresy and rumour then that's fantastic and I'll be watching this story with interest and rather a lot of excitement.

[blendyface]

I missed the reveal entirely and got spoiled by a voiceover for a follow-up documentary! So I'll have to get on the beeb player 'bout that. It was a fab excuse to spam my twitter (sorry Lor  )

[dbaskls]

This made me laugh!

[Idlewilder]

This one is hilarious! 

[blendyface]

This one is hilarious! 

YESSSSSS
Best response from the Richard III tag. Every time I see it the theme song drifts back into my head blackaaaadder blackaaadder

(ps Thank you for the reading rec!