December 06, 2019, 01:38:31 PM

Author Topic: Politics and other ailments of the real world  (Read 285868 times)

Offline xiagan

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #3345 on: October 31, 2019, 06:39:58 PM »
Somebody on Reddit explained Trumps way of thinking:

Quote
He grew up in a world where everything was provided for him and the only explanation was a very simplistic view of business.

And he applies that view to everything. The presidency doesn’t represent stewardship of the USA to him. It means America is his business and it’s supposed to profit him.

The easiest way to increase profit is cutting cost. Alliances and agreements, for instance, are costs. Allies should be paying for protection instead of entering into defence agreements.

Prosperity for the people is nothing but cost. Education, healthcare, social reform. It’s all cost for no profit.

He treats power the same way as he treats money. You’re supposed to garner more of it. That’s why he admires dictators and tyrants who have no limits placed on their power. That’s the goal. And he resents the people, the parties and the laws that limit his power.

His statecraft is no different. Right from the start he tried to trade individually with European nations because that’s a power exchange that favours him. He hates the EU because bloc trading does not favour him. He resolves trade disputes with punitive measures. Since the cost of trade sanctions is born by others, he sees it as a pure power move. Let’s see who starves first, China or America but it won’t be Trump.
"Sire, I had no need of that hypothesis." (Laplace)

Offline Bender

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #3346 on: October 31, 2019, 07:50:35 PM »
That's a brilliant analysis!
Not all those who wander are lost

Offline Rostum

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #3347 on: October 31, 2019, 11:53:57 PM »

 
Quote
Quote
The purpose of Government is to maintain the status Quo.
I absolutely disagree. The purpose of a democratic government is to serve the people it represents, even if that means making changes. Error-correction is an essential part of the democratic system. It's when that fails that democracy fails, i.e. when bad laws, policies, and politicians are allowed to remain.

Ok I could have termed that in a better way. Government not as in elected MP's those come and go and are there to represent their party then maybe those who vote for them ( big difference between the will of the people in Scandinavia and Europe and the UK.) but as in the vast number of civil servents who carry out the function of government. Bureaucracy is a very slow way of making sure something happens. The default is it stays the same.

Any change takes a motion to be supported by a majority, probable changes to get that support. Then approval by majority in two houses. Then an implimentation Schedule often measured in years allowing the next party in power to quietly do away with it or change it into something less damaging. The default is it stays the same.

In a dictatorship stuff changes really fast, no checks and balences or oversight and no option to remove the dictator until they are weak enough to overthrow.

Offline hexa

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #3348 on: November 02, 2019, 07:17:34 PM »
Parliament's security chief asks the Prime Minister to release report on Russian meddling in UK elections

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-50275383

Offline xiagan

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #3349 on: November 09, 2019, 07:42:51 AM »
I just read something really scary on reddit about A.G. Barr.
It's long, but if you live in the US, you should read this.

Since this is a quote, quotes by Barr himself are preceded with a > and in italics.

Quote from: catgirl_apocalypse
People really underestimate how religious Barr is. Everyone assumes he’s in it for himself or the party since he’s best known for his work as a fixer during the Bush I era, and he’s been actively assisting Trump with his criminality.

That’s not why he’s in the Trump admin.

His goal with Donald Trump is to establish, through precedent, an Imperial Presidency under the Unitary Executive Theory.

He wants Trump to push the boundaries and make the President essentially invincible, so that this power can be used by a future ultra-conservative Republican who reigns as an enlightened Christian philosopher king.

He laid out his vision in the address I’ve linked, given at Notre Dame last month. This speech has not been given enough attention.

As you can see, Barr believes that religious freedom is and should be a priority at Justice.

That sounds fine. America was founded on religious freedom, right?

The thing you need to understand is this.

The radical religious right has a different definition of “Religious Freedom”.

We extend full freedom to religion so long as it doesn’t interfere with other people’s rights and, and generally fits into the modern world as it exists in western, liberal democracies.

What Barr and his ilk mean when they say “religious freedom” is the freedom from anything that contradicts, interferes with, or is unacceptable within the bounds of *their* religion. This movement assumes as first principles that:

1. Christianity is objectively correct
2. Christianity is the default religion of the United States
3. The Framers intended to create a Christian government

> We have set up a task force within the Department with different components that have equities in this area, including the Solicitor General’s Office, the Civil Division, the Office of Legal Counsel, and other offices. We have regular meetings. We keep an eye out for cases or events around the country where states are misapplying the Establishment Clause in a way that discriminates against people of faith, or cases where states adopt laws that impinge upon the free exercise of religion.

What he’s talking about here when he talks about “misapplying the Establishment Clause in a way that discriminate against people of faith” he’s referring to things like Masterpiece cake shops or the funeral home case currently before SCOTUS.

What he means is that a Christian person has a right to deny employment, services, or even medical attention when working as an EMT to someone on the basis of their sexuality or gender identity, even if such discrimination takes place in the context of a non religious setting or private business.

Of course it doesn’t actually *stop* there, but what Barr is arguing for, and seeks to create, is a world where discrimination is legal again and morality is legislated by the government. He wants queers back in the closet, women back in the kitchen, and blacks back in their place.

> The challenge we face is precisely what the Founding Fathers foresaw would be our supreme test as a free society.

>They never thought the main danger to the republic came from external foes. The central question was whether, over the long haul, we could handle freedom. The question was whether the citizens in such a free society could maintain the moral discipline and virtue necessary for the survival of free institutions.

Make no mistake: this is a religious man in a government position addressing a religious institution. He is stating unequivocally here that there is an objective moral standard delineated by supernatural forces, he knows what it is, and he feels it his duty to use his powers as a ranking member of government to enforce this moral code on others whether they want to or not.

> On the other hand, unless you have some effective restraint, you end up with something equally dangerous – licentiousness – the unbridled pursuit of personal appetites at the expense of the common good. This is just another form of tyranny – where the individual is enslaved by his appetites, and the possibility of any healthy community life crumbles.


Licentiousness. Interesting word choice. It means *sexual promiscuity*.

> In short, in the Framers’ view, free government was only suitable and sustainable for a religious people – a people who recognized that there was a transcendent moral order antecedent to both the state and man-made law and who had the discipline to control themselves according to those enduring principles.


Barr proposes a warped view of freedom where you can only be free if you do what you’re told. This innately contradictory, Orwellian idea runs directly counter to the *actual* precepts behind the Founding Fathers, but is, more importantly, profoundly at odds with humanism and modern thinking.

> By any honest assessment, the consequences of this moral upheaval have been grim.

>In 1965, the illegitimacy rate was eight percent. In 1992, when I was last Attorney General, it was 25 percent. Today it is over 40 percent. In many of our large urban areas, it is around 70 percent.

>Along with the wreckage of the family, we are seeing record levels of depression and mental illness, dispirited young people, soaring suicide rates, increasing numbers of angry and alienated young males, an increase in senseless violence, and a deadly drug epidemic.

>As you all know, over 70,000 people die a year from drug overdoses. That is more casualities in a year than we experienced during the entire Vietnam War.

There’s an implied singular factor he’s talking about here, but he never explicitly names it. He gives it away by the choice of the words *dispirited males*.

Broadly, what he means here is that the flaw he sees, which is trying to correct, is women’s liberation and feminism.

Barr is a fascist. He’s promoting a cult of tradition and overbearing masculinity, blaming social problems on depravity, and worst of all, he scorns education:

> First is the force, fervor, and comprehensiveness of the assault on religion we are experiencing today. This is not decay; it is organized destruction. Secularists, and their allies among the “progressives,” have marshaled all the force of mass communications, popular culture, the entertainment industry, and academia in an unremitting assault on religion and traditional values.

Like all totalitarians, Barr wants to replace diversity of thought in culture and education with a unity of thought that enforces a social order: obedience to the father figure who is in turn obedient to the state.

> The solution to the breakdown of the family is for the State to set itself up as the ersatz husband for single mothers and the ersatz father to their children.

> The call comes for more and more social programs to deal with the wreckage. While we think we are solving problems, we are underwriting them.

>We start with an untrammeled freedom and we end up as dependents of a coercive state on which we depend.

Barr can’t conceive of a family unit without a husband, nor can he grasp the concept of a woman who is not beholden to a man. A woman cannot be independent; *some* way of framing the situation so someone is “her man” must be found, because a woman has to be someone’s property.

As a fascist, he longs for order for the sake of order, self oriented and self sustaining. He can’t conceive of improving the life of a single mother so that she can be fully independent and raise her children. She *must* be re-shackled to a man.

> Yet here is where the battle is being joined, and I see the secularists are attacking on three fronts.

The first front relates to the content of public school curriculum. Many states are adopting curriculum that is incompatible with traditional religious principles according to which parents are attempting to raise their children. They often do so without any opt out for religious families.

>Thus, for example, New Jersey recently passed a law requiring public schools to adopt an LGBT curriculum that many feel is inconsistent with traditional Christian teaching. Similar laws have been passed in California and Illinois. And the Orange County Board of Education in California issued an opinion that “parents who disagree with the instructional materials related to gender, gender identity, gender expression and sexual orientation may not excuse their children from this instruction.”

>Indeed, in some cases, the schools may not even warn parents about lessons they plan to teach on controversial subjects relating to sexual behavior and relationships.

Barr and his ilk *know* that his vision of the world can’t survive critical thinking and exposure to diversity and empathy. The religious attitude of the conservative Christian confuses judgement with empathy, and this worldview can’t survive if people realize that it doesn’t benefit anyone but a small slice of society.

He likes to dress it up in big words but he doesn’t want schools to show kids that LGBT people aren’t monstrous freaks and abusive relationships are bad.

Obedience to Father, who is obedient to State. That’s his view of “freedom”.  It’s kind of like how you could have a Model T in any color as long as it’s black. You’re free to act like everyone else.

What baffles me is that this man has a daughter. Does she know that dad is fighting everything that made her career in government possible? Can she read this rhetoric and not realize that he wants to build a world where she has a collar on her neck?

"Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy." - H.L. Mencken
"Sire, I had no need of that hypothesis." (Laplace)

Offline tebakutis

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #3350 on: November 11, 2019, 01:24:15 AM »
I just read something really scary on reddit about A.G. Barr.
It's long, but if you live in the US, you should read this.

Yup, Barr is a nutjob, like literally all of Trump's appointees. My only consolation is he has likely perjured himself and broken the law multiple times to protect his God King, Trump. I only hope that if Trump falls to impeachment, Barr is one of many who is criminally charged with him.

Offline hexa

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #3351 on: November 11, 2019, 02:15:45 AM »
Barr was Attorney General under George H. Bush.  Barr had those opinions back then, too.

However, Trump doesn't talk about moving American culture to the right on social issues.  Trump doesn't emphasize the Christianity of the USA.  Trump hired Barr to defend his presidency, not to preach Christian revival.

I don't find the speech worrisome, because Trump doesn't have Barr's zeal 

Offline Bender

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #3352 on: November 11, 2019, 06:37:57 AM »
Trump would play whatever card he can get to win, but rarely fixes himself to a particular camp...far lest christian right wing. He's popular in Bible belt, but that's the extent. I doubt he'd permit the zeal of Barr....but Pence might, if trump got impeached. Pence-Barr is a far far worse dynamic than Trump-Barr could ever be.

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Offline Rostum

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #3353 on: November 11, 2019, 06:50:42 AM »
Quote
Where do you live in US, Xiagan?

I think its Berlin MA

Offline xiagan

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #3354 on: November 11, 2019, 09:05:35 PM »
Seems you didn't read this sentence at the beginning:
Quote
He wants Trump to push the boundaries and make the President essentially invincible, so that this power can be used by a future ultra-conservative Republican who reigns as an enlightened Christian philosopher king.
It's not about Trump. It's about paving the way for a right wing Christian "king".

I live in Berlin, Germany and have never been to the US.
"Sire, I had no need of that hypothesis." (Laplace)

Online ScarletBea

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #3355 on: November 14, 2019, 07:58:23 AM »
I am so sick of being unable to read the paper or watch the news without being demonised.
Everywhere I look it's "immigrants this" and "immigrants that" and "let's curb immigrants"...

I love being in England, but this really gets to me some days (today being one of them).

And for all of you people who then turn to me and say "but I don't mean you", I say "how would you like if everywhere you looked people were complaining about people over 40, for example, blaming them for anything and everything, and then they turn to you and say they don't mean you? would you care?"
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Offline Magnus Hedén

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #3356 on: November 14, 2019, 08:57:06 AM »
I can't even imagine what it's like to have your presence in a country or even your existence criticised or questioned on a daily basis. The far-right keep whining about how people should be offended less, but I'd like to see them live a single day under those conditions and not throw a privileged hissy-fit followed by a nervous breakdown.

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Offline xiagan

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #3357 on: November 14, 2019, 09:36:03 PM »
"Sire, I had no need of that hypothesis." (Laplace)

Offline Rostum

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #3358 on: November 15, 2019, 05:13:47 PM »
Bea is your perception coming solely from media? Perhaps avoiding Fox News, the Express group papers, The Sun and any others not fit to wrap chips in.

The business of newspapers is not to report news but sell papers. Do not participate in their business if it affects your happiness. While I can't speak really for tevevision as i don't have one i tend to avoid watching all TV news channels as real news (indispersed with opinion pieces and humorous non news) tends to be very much dumbed down on how it was reported even 20 years ago.

Nothing on Immigrants/immigration on the BBS website yesterday or today which is where I tend to check for news initially.


Online ScarletBea

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #3359 on: November 15, 2019, 05:39:07 PM »
Gosh, no, I stay away from those places!
I normally read the Guardian, sometimes BBC news, watch Channel 4 news, have Radio 4 in the car.
(I wonder if this says anything about me, hehe)

It's just the general reporting of what the main parties say, everyone is putting immigration at the centre, as if 'sorting it' it the magic wand to solve all problems in the UK...
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