July 23, 2019, 09:27:15 PM

Author Topic: Politics and other ailments of the real world  (Read 245841 times)

Offline tebakutis

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #3165 on: June 25, 2019, 04:34:22 PM »
Are the news painting things as bleaker than they really are? Because it's easy to get the impression that the US is coming apart at the seams.

The thing to remember is the US is huge, so you don't see the effects of our now fullbore fascist Republicans everywhere. They're focused in specific areas right now, like the concentration camps on our border, where we are inflicting intentional harm on men, women, and children who've legally claimed asylum. Trump, his lackie Stephen Miller, and the rest of his crew want to hurt and kill brown people (even children) in hopes it will discourage further immigration. We aren't directly killing them (yet), because Miller isn't certain he can get away with it, so we're instead holding them in conditions so horrific they'll die from disease or commit suicide, as many have done. We're killing them indirectly to see if we can get away with THAT.

As people say when they consider the Trump admin's horrific/sometimes bumbling actions so far, "The cruelty is the point."

As for the Republicans in our government, they have JUST enough folks in the senate to keep Mitch McConnell (the majority leader) in power. And Mitch McConnell is making damn sure no one can touch Trump. I don't think he necessarily agrees with the plan to murder brown people at our border - he just doesn't care to stop it. He's focused on enshrining GOP power because he knows they only have a few more elections before rich/white people are outnumbered demographically, and wants to make sure he and his can hold onto power as long as possible by gerrymanding and suppressing votes. His goal is the tyranny of the minority, and he's doing a great job getting there.

Finally, the Democrats in the house are too scared to impeach Trump because they know McConnell and the Republican senate won't impeach (even if Trump shot someone in the street) and fear Trump will use a failed impeachment to get reelected in 2020. So they won't do anything either (with the exception of newcomers like AOC, Ohmar, and a few others, who will be the future of this country if it doesn't go full bore fascist).

So is American coming apart? Not for white people, and not as an entity. The US will continue to be here and I (a white person) will be fine. But anyone who is not white and wealthy is going to suffer horribly, with people (and children) in our concentration camps suffering the most and, probably, dying as well. Nothing will happen until 2020, and then only if we can somehow overcome Republican gerrymandering (which dilutes our vote), Russian hacking (which Trump has asked for and McConnell will make sure we can't stop) and Trump's idiot cult base (who ignore all news about him and blindly chant MAGA as he kills people).

You'll note I've stopped talking about this so much on these forums. That's because there's literally nothing I can do. I'm already donating as much as I can to Democratic candidates and organizations like RAICES, and it's testing my sanity to know Trump/the GOP are doing these horrific things and I'm largely helpless to stop it. Having a four-year-old and knowing how SHE'D feel if she was suffering in Trump's concentration camps makes it even worse.

But America? American will be fine. We'll continue to be here, and we'll either push the Republicans out in 2020 (in which case we can begin clawing our way back to possibly not being such a shit country) or they'll win in 2020, and we'll go full GOP domination - which means we further roll back rights for non-white/rich people, lose our court system to McConnell's whack-a-doodle court packing, loose the Supreme Court for at least 30 years (if not longer) and turn into the country from A Handmaid's Tale, with an extra helping of accelerating our imprisonment/neglect/murder of those claiming asylum and Trump probably declaring himself king for life.

I guess we'll see.

Online xiagan

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #3166 on: June 25, 2019, 09:23:33 PM »
You'll note I've stopped talking about this so much on these forums. That's because there's literally nothing I can do. I'm already donating as much as I can to Democratic candidates and organizations like RAICES, and it's testing my sanity to know Trump/the GOP are doing these horrific things and I'm largely helpless to stop it. Having a four-year-old and knowing how SHE'D feel if she was suffering in Trump's concentration camps makes it even worse.
I've asked my government (Germany) yesterday how they intend to react to the concentration camps. We have a historical responsibility and are a big partner of the USA, so I hope they can and will do something. Because it drives me crazy too that I can't do shit about it.
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Offline shadowkat678

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #3167 on: June 26, 2019, 12:15:17 AM »
Anyone heard about how they're turning away supplies? Apparently people are trying to donate resources and the agents are leaving them or throwing them away.
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Offline tebakutis

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #3168 on: June 26, 2019, 01:02:33 AM »
Anyone heard about how they're turning away supplies? Apparently people are trying to donate resources and the agents are leaving them or throwing them away.

Yes, turning down/refusing the supplies is intentional. Many of these children had parents when they arrived, but we took them away from their parents. Many had medicine, blankets, clothing, etc, and we took those away too. This is not something that happened due to overcrowding and was inevitable. It was done intentionally (we closed dozens of camps as well to ensure overcrowding) to hurt asylum seekers.

 CBP is doing ALL of this on the orders of Trump and Miller. They hope if they hurt enough men, women, and children (or even make conditions so bad that they are dying regularly, as they are now) that fewer people will claim asylum. As many have pointed out, the cruelty is the point. They will deny all donations.

Offline tebakutis

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #3169 on: June 26, 2019, 01:05:24 AM »
You'll note I've stopped talking about this so much on these forums. That's because there's literally nothing I can do. I'm already donating as much as I can to Democratic candidates and organizations like RAICES, and it's testing my sanity to know Trump/the GOP are doing these horrific things and I'm largely helpless to stop it. Having a four-year-old and knowing how SHE'D feel if she was suffering in Trump's concentration camps makes it even worse.
I've asked my government (Germany) yesterday how they intend to react to the concentration camps. We have a historical responsibility and are a big partner of the USA, so I hope they can and will do something. Because it drives me crazy too that I can't do shit about it.

I wish you could, but Trump (and the Republicans who protect him) are pretty much beyond caring about anything our allies think (and have, in many cases, set them aside in favor of Russian/North Korea). Short of Germany invading the US and forcibly causing regime change (not happening) I sadly don't think anything can be done unless Republicans are resoundingly defeated (and Trump is removed) in 2020. At that point, Democrats and other people who aren't horrible will start cleaning up/correcting things/making reparations and, hopefully, putting these horrible people on trial.

Even then, I hope other governments will do what they can to keep the US from gaining this much power on the world stage again. Trump is a symptom of a huge problem in this country (remember, millions of people voted for him and cheer him on to this day) and our right-wing isn't going away anytime soon. I think it's time for more progressive countries to take the lead.

Offline Bender

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #3170 on: June 26, 2019, 02:53:11 AM »

You'll note I've stopped talking about this so much on these forums. That's because there's literally nothing I can do. I'm already donating as much as I can to Democratic candidates and organizations like RAICES, and it's testing my sanity to know Trump/the GOP are doing these horrific things and I'm largely helpless to stop it.

Money doesn't replace inspiration or leadership and the Dems are sorely lacking on both. You had one bland contender in Hillary and now moving to multiple bland contenders in 2020. Just like Trump supporters have blind faith in him, Dems have blind faith that they are in the right and they are destined to win.

Just like 2016, the next one will be won or lost in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Michigan and Florida and none apart from Bernie and Biden have even a whisper of pulling those states. Perhaps Klobuchar might, but then she's just drab and has no charisma. 
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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #3171 on: June 26, 2019, 07:52:32 AM »
As depressing as it sounds, I don't think the Democrats taking power would be enough to end the camps. I read somewhere that before Trump, Obama deported more people than any other president. The Republicans aren't as good at hiding it, but the Democrats have done some pretty atrocious things as well. From what I can see, America needs far more than a change of ruling parties. The entire political system, the whole structure, requires drastic change.

Offline ScarletBea

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #3172 on: June 26, 2019, 12:27:15 PM »
Todat I got this book from the library: Why we get the wrong politicians, by Isabel Hardman.

It seems very interesting to understand UK politics, I'll get back to you as I read more.
I'm about one third in and my eyes have been opened! The system is appalling, and I don't think anybody has a good overview of exactly what is supposed to happen, when and how - much less the people trying to get into politics in the first place.
It doesn't really seem to be about the people (although of course there's always bad ones), but the whole process conspires to reduce everything down to the lowest common denominator...

This should be mandatory reading for anyone living in the UK, and then maybe, just maybe, we'd be able to change the process (although I think it'll take a gargantuan effort!)
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Offline J.R. Darewood

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #3173 on: June 27, 2019, 02:35:43 AM »
As depressing as it sounds, I don't think the Democrats taking power would be enough to end the camps. I read somewhere that before Trump, Obama deported more people than any other president. The Republicans aren't as good at hiding it, but the Democrats have done some pretty atrocious things as well. From what I can see, America needs far more than a change of ruling parties. The entire political system, the whole structure, requires drastic change.

Before Trump, I thought our problems were the politicians.  It's a harsh awakening to realize that it's the people. My favorite quote from before the 2016 election results were in and everyone thought Hillary was going to win: "If you're going out to eat and 3 people vote to eat pizza, and 2 people vote to eat *you*, even when dinner is over, you still have a problem"

Todat I got this book from the library: Why we get the wrong politicians, by Isabel Hardman.

It seems very interesting to understand UK politics, I'll get back to you as I read more.
I'm about one third in and my eyes have been opened! The system is appalling, and I don't think anybody has a good overview of exactly what is supposed to happen, when and how - much less the people trying to get into politics in the first place.
It doesn't really seem to be about the people (although of course there's always bad ones), but the whole process conspires to reduce everything down to the lowest common denominator...

This should be mandatory reading for anyone living in the UK, and then maybe, just maybe, we'd be able to change the process (although I think it'll take a gargantuan effort!)

Make Americans read it too!  I want to read it!

Online Eli_Freysson

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #3174 on: July 09, 2019, 10:41:09 PM »
So, I've watched several news stories on that Jeffrey Epstein guy; an American hedge fund billionaire who is a massive child molester, with over 80 confirmed victims, and who traffics them to boot.. Apparently he got busted years ago, but was essentially let off by a man who is currently in Donald Trump's cabinet.

Aaand Epstein has long been connected to various important figures, such as Trump himself and Bill Clinton, just to name a couple. Even though, from what is being unearthed, his predilections were an open secret. It seems some bad stuff went down on this guy's private island, where he would invite people.

It's going to be interesting to see what comes of this. At a glance this has the potential to bring a lot of people down in flames.

But why, oh WHY, is this particular perversion so common??
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Online Neveesandeh

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #3175 on: July 10, 2019, 11:19:21 AM »
So, I've watched several news stories on that Jeffrey Epstein guy; an American hedge fund billionaire who is a massive child molester, with over 80 confirmed victims, and who traffics them to boot.. Apparently he got busted years ago, but was essentially let off by a man who is currently in Donald Trump's cabinet.

Aaand Epstein has long been connected to various important figures, such as Trump himself and Bill Clinton, just to name a couple. Even though, from what is being unearthed, his predilections were an open secret. It seems some bad stuff went down on this guy's private island, where he would invite people.

It's going to be interesting to see what comes of this. At a glance this has the potential to bring a lot of people down in flames.

But why, oh WHY, is this particular perversion so common??

I guess there's a lot of these people out there, but it's the people powerful enough to intimidate everyone that can evade justice for longer. Just look at Jimmy Saville or Harvey Weinstein. What they did was pretty much an open secret and yet no one would touch them. Jimmy Saville wasn't even uncovered until after he was dead.

Offline Rostum

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #3176 on: July 19, 2019, 06:00:16 PM »
And America

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-49034885/ilhan-omar-send-her-back-chants-at-trump-rally

and Trumps mild 'I disagree with the chant' statement afterwards

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49035505

Even Trumps supporters must realise he is too cowardly to own the reactions of his crowds while inciting them to this kind of depravity.

Offline ScarletBea

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #3177 on: July 19, 2019, 06:05:00 PM »
Whenever we think the bottom has been hit, they manage to dig a little deeper :'(
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Online Eli_Freysson

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #3178 on: July 19, 2019, 06:34:58 PM »
Will this epitome of human weakness just have his damn cheeseburger-induced heart attack already??
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Offline Bender

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #3179 on: July 19, 2019, 08:53:46 PM »
Even Trumps supporters must realise he is too cowardly to own the reactions of his crowds while inciting them to this kind of depravity.

Why would they do that? They're the ones shouting the slogan.

Also he has called the crowd, Incredible Patriots today.  :-X
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