June 19, 2018, 09:06:54 PM

Author Topic: Politics and other ailments of the real world  (Read 148791 times)

Online JMack

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #2580 on: February 20, 2018, 02:19:41 AM »
I’m with ou @ultamentkiller. There’s a reason products are safer, people are treated more fairly, and companies are held to ethical standards and that’s lawsuits. And like any other good thing (unions come to kind) they can be abused and taken to un-useful extremes. But that doesn’t mean you throw them out or cut off their effectiveness. Corporations a rogue rperful groups always want that.
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Offline Bradley Darewood

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #2581 on: February 22, 2018, 10:46:10 AM »
https://www.abc15.com/news/local-news/investigations/bill-that-would-try-and-stop-drive-by-ada-lawsuits-passes-us-house?page=2

So the article isn't wrong. There's many lawsuits designed for getting money out of companies rather than addressing ADA violations. However, this is not the way to stop that. This article fails to cover that they don't actually have to fix anything in 60 days. If you read the bill, it basically says they have to make a minimal effort to fix the problem. There's no operational definition of what an effort consists of, so it could basically mean doing a Google search to see what they can do... And that's it. Could legitimate lawsuits overcome this? Absolutely. But that assumes the people with disabilities have the money to do so, which many don't, and it could take months if not years to work through the legal process. We already have enough trouble as it is.

I'm posting it here mainly because I'm frustrated by the coverage. this news source did a terrible job of finding out why specific disability communities oppose the bill, and seemed to pay more attention to the other side. And I know all this other stuff happening with the government is important, but considering that 20% of our population has a disability, it's awful. But let's just sweep them under the rug again, because you know, Russia.

That's really frustrating.  Have you tried writing the editor? Send them an email, also maybe you can get someone to publish an op-ed

Offline Rostum

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #2582 on: February 23, 2018, 02:19:04 PM »

Offline Bradley Darewood

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #2583 on: February 23, 2018, 07:49:22 PM »
There does seem to be a pattern of teenagers drowning in British custody. Looks like the military saw fit to pay quite a bit to the victims family.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/jul/21/iraq-drowning-british-army-compensation?CMP=share_btn_link

Even when there's a lot of evidence of wrongdoing it can be very difficult to successfully prosecute anyone, as the famous Baha Mousa case shows https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Baha_Mousa
Have you read A Very British Killing ? Granted the American track record is 1000 times worse than the British. Now if only the American police got as many inquiries everytime they killed someone....

Offline Rostum

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #2584 on: February 23, 2018, 11:23:36 PM »
Mr Shabram was never in British custody. The claim is that he and another man were forced into the water at gunpoint by British troops during a riot. The defence claim is those men were trying to escape an angry mob. I would give it more credence if PIL had not been involved.

The initial brief in this case is tainted. Major Campbell has been cleared of any wrongdoing seven times. I believe the army and police should be held accountable for their actions and they should never be above the law.
Utter betrayal of your own is also something I cannot countenance. Presumably there will continue to be enquiries until the right result is reached. While This goes on Tony Blair is still free to make money giving speeches in the states.


Offline Bradley Darewood

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #2585 on: February 24, 2018, 09:44:18 AM »

It does sound like it's symbolic. Or a sacrificial lamb.

Offline Eli_Freysson

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #2586 on: February 27, 2018, 09:16:21 AM »
I have to say it's interesting to observe the current gun debate in America. There have been so many of these shootings, so many outrages, and every time the same old script plays out, until people lose interest till the next shooting. But there actually seems to be a glimmer of a chance for actual change, if these young people can keep up this momentum.

Although I am a bit distracted by Trump's declaration that he would have charged into that school and saved the day. I'm not sure which possibility is more chilling: That he doesn't realise how idiotic it is to say that on TV, or that he honestly believes he lives in an action movie.
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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #2587 on: February 27, 2018, 10:49:20 AM »
I picture the climax of,Stephen King’s The Dead Zone:
Spoiler for Hiden:
the evil politician is ruined when a TV crew films him holding up a child to,protect himself from an assassin.
Change, when it comes, will step lightly before it kicks like thunder. (GRMatthews)
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Offline NightWrite

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #2588 on: February 27, 2018, 02:37:09 PM »
The whole arming teachers thing is getting to me. Sure, you can arm and train teachers, but that doesn't mean they'll succeed flawlessly. I'm pretty sure there's a difference between knowing how to use a gun in a training situation and being able to use a gun when under pressure from a shooter when lives are on the line.

Though I'll admit I don't own a gun and haven't shot one in over a decade, so I could be wrong about this.

Offline Eli_Freysson

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #2589 on: February 27, 2018, 03:11:31 PM »
The whole arming teachers thing is getting to me. Sure, you can arm and train teachers, but that doesn't mean they'll succeed flawlessly. I'm pretty sure there's a difference between knowing how to use a gun in a training situation and being able to use a gun when under pressure from a shooter when lives are on the line.

My personal reaction to all that is the absurdity of just accepting that schools are battlefields.
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Offline dinogenetics

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #2590 on: February 27, 2018, 03:35:11 PM »
I grew up in a small, religious, and conservative town. Guns are celebrated there by many, but only because hunting is a natural pastime. Still, I have a difficult time imagining most of my teachers brandishing a weapon without snickering at the visual. Whether it be the skinny male English teacher who would rather play WoW than clean his gun or the math teacher in a long denim dress and her hair in a bun who makes the world's best pumpkin pie... I don't see them capable of brandishing an actual weapon at another human being. I don't particularly want to, either.

I grew up in the school system in more than one way: my father was the principal of two small elementary schools before becoming superintendent of a nearby district. Even as a child, I knew that the life of a teacher could be extraordinarily stressful. Under the pressure of unruly students, I've seen some lose patience, scream, and even cry. I can't imagine how much more stressful a school environment has become in the years since I graduated. Teachers, just like students, are emotional creatures who can exhibit poor judgement. Even if they are trained and experienced gun owners, I don't necessarily think its a great idea arm them inside an educational environment.

Online The Gem Cutter

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #2591 on: February 27, 2018, 03:54:23 PM »
Based on my life-long experience with guns, my time in the military, and my time in warzones where everyone was armed, I believe arming teachers is the stupidest idea I have ever heard on multiple lines of reasoning. I could elaborate, but I won't be the reasons against it are almost endless. The short version: it introduces countless risks and inevitable negative outcomes from accidents, misuse, theft, etc. Carrying a loaded weapon is hard even when there is no adrenaline, no fear or pressure. It's one of those weird things, like driving, where you have to maintain awareness all the time to prevent an accident. And people get bored and fiddle with them and have an accidental discharge all the time.

And perhaps most importantly, to those alienated kids on the fringe: it's a virtual challenge. Teenagers are, as a class, stupid dipshits with scientifically-proven gaps in their ability to process consequences - they're guzzling packets of Tide FFS. They're not yet adults, and while some mature early and are fine, we're in a "weakest link in the chain" scenarios where it only takes one out of 1300 kids in a school and BLAM! We have a problem. The idea we want to invite them to a gunfight at their local school with that annoying teacher who did X, Y, or Z to them is insane - because that one psycho kid will accept that challenge just to prove he can.
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Offline Rostum

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #2592 on: February 27, 2018, 04:28:31 PM »
Logic dictates more guns in schools cannot do anything but make the problem worse.

Human nature is to shortcut any process. Give a teacher a gun inevitably they will shoot an unarmed student.

While school shootings are not exclusively an American problem the USA has nearly as many as the rest of the world put together*

Only in America would the victims have to find their own medical costs as a result of being shot while carrying out the legally required act of getting educated.

Inevitably there will be another school shooting, probably this year.

In the eyes of the world as a nation you appear neither sane or competent to be trusted with firearms.

*excluding warezones

Offline NightWrite

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #2593 on: February 27, 2018, 05:28:40 PM »
The short version: it introduces countless risks and inevitable negative outcomes from accidents, misuse, theft, etc.
And now I can't get this image out of my head: Trump succeeds in getting teachers armed, followed by a series of school shootings which only occurred because the shooter was able to steal their teacher's gun.

Followed by this image: Armed teacher has mental breakdown due to pressures of the educational system, harms one or more of their students.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2018, 05:31:00 PM by NightWrite »

Offline tebakutis

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #2594 on: February 27, 2018, 06:02:22 PM »
FYI: No one, especially not the NRA, believes the actual solution is to arm teachers. Yes, the NRA (and the gun manufacturers who own them) would love to sell a bunch of guns, but they know it won't happen. It's a distraction.

The Parkland shooting (the 600th or something in the last few years) caused the worst possible confluence of events for the gun lobby, the NRA, and the GOP. Students who had spent literally their entire life worrying about a school shooting (Columbine happened in 1999) experienced a school shooting at an age where they all had access to a huge platform (social media) and were just years away from voting. And they've turned their grief into activism, because they know this was all preventable.

You had a generation raised on The Daily Show and other platforms that cut through political bullshit witnessing exactly what they'd all feared and clamored against - 17 people they knew murdered by a single asshole who easily acquired a military-style weapon - and it was not only obvious that the damage could have been easily mitigated (ban military-style weapons and high capacity magazines) but that the politicians who have spent the last four years spouting "thoughts and prayers" knew this - and had chosen to do nothing.

These kids are angry, well-spoken, snarky, and have a huge platform of listeners. Emma Gonzalez now has more followers than the NRA, and the gun lobby/NRA/GOP are SCARED that we're finally going to cut into their profit margins. As a result, they're throwing every dirty trick they can think of at these kids - "false flag", "crisis actor", "you're too young to have an opinion", etc, but the "let's arm teachers" is another tool in their deflection toolbox, not a serious position.

And goddammit, it's working. We now have our cable news networks debating the pros and cons of arming teachers. We now have our public discourse debating the pros and cons of arming teachers. The public discourse we aren't having? It's time to ban high capacity magazines and military-style rifles.

That is the NRA/GOP's intent with their ludicrous suggestion. It's one of the stupidest ideas they've ever pitched, and they know it. But they don't care, because we're debating it instead of simply saying "That's stupid" and moving on to have a real discussion about massacre prevention (that's my preferred phrase to describe it, as "gun control" doesn't really cover it anymore).

Fortunately, unlike our news networks, the Parkland teens are seeing right through this "arm teachers!" smokescreen and continuing to hammer that we need to ban high-capacity mags and miltary-style weapons, full stop, just like we did between 1994 and 2004 (when the "assault weapon" ban expired). That's the discussion the NRA and their masters don't want to have, and they'll do anything to distract us away from having it.

So, next time someone says "let's arm teachers" don't engage them in the pros and cons. Tell them "That's stupid, moving on" and talk about how we mitigate the ease with which disturbed individuals can acquire weapons that shoot 30 rounds without requiring a reload. And don't let up until they either admit they won't give up their precious toys in order to prevent more massacres (in which case, **** 'em) or they relent and admit those weapons/mags should be banned.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2018, 06:04:42 PM by tebakutis »