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Author Topic: Politics and other ailments of the real world  (Read 268790 times)

Offline m3mnoch

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #660 on: June 07, 2016, 09:27:31 PM »
it's funny.  my favorite comparison of the two is this:

untrustworthy, liar hillary:
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/hillary-clinton/

plain-speaking donald:
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/

heh.

makes you wonder at the definition of "untrustworthy" for some folks.

Offline WPaladin

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #661 on: June 07, 2016, 09:53:24 PM »
Let's go over this, shall we? Trump, to date...

-Has openly advocated War Crimes.  Not that I expect him to admit wrong doing.  When was the last time he brought this up?  March?  He went silent on the issue.  I would want him to renounce that position but, I can assure you no matter how bad you think of the military they would never carry out that order. 

-Has openly mocked women, disabled people and McCain for being a Prisoner of War  See your narcissistic manchild who attacks opponents and then later talks them up when they are supposed to be allies.

-Has openly threatened to shut down news organisations that mock him.   The press don't care as they shouldn't. Now if we could only get them to start actually bringing facts on all sides out instead of picking sides.

-Refuses to denounce hate groups/white supremacists who support him.    http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/03/politics/donald-trump-disavows-david-duke-kkk/index.html

-Is openly bigoted  Yes unfortunately so HRC she just hides it better.  https://socialistworker.org/2016/01/26/the-clintons-shameful-hypocrisy-on-racism

-Is openly sexist  This is a very mixed bag.  I have seen opinions both ways I will wait for evidence.

-Has zilch in the way of political experience   So yes this is where I agree and don't mind at all really.  Give me a better outsider and I would probably back them as well.

-Is a habitual liar (and this is by politician standards, which are already fairly terrible)   The difference here?

-Has openly advocated for his supporters to beat up protesters and refuses to condemn those that do    Vice the other not publicly condemning violence of their own supporters which to date I believe has been significantly more extreme?

-Acts tough but has a thinner skin than plastic wrap  Once again give me another option?  HRC is adept at controlling who is around her when not in control she is pretty bad about taking criticism.  Actually anytime she doesn't know she has a camera on her she is pretty thin skinned.

-Has only one real consistent policy (the Mexico Wall) which not only would be ridiculous and expensive but, as anyone with any kind of knowledge of illegal immigration would tell you, would not work in the slightest.   https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/immigration-reform  Enforcing the law would help.  I would take a deeper look at the entire policy plan.

-Can be reasonably argued that he's a genuine fascist   Our definitions of fascism differ.  When I have evidence of Trump supporters trying to drown out liberal opinions in an open forum and when you have a conservative riot over a liberal gathering.  When I see fact and debate vice one sides fact with source drowned out by catchy phrases and closed minds then I will agree with you on this.

-Is an immature, narcissistic manchild    This is why I want a do nothing president Trump who tells us his plans openly so we can shut down the bad ones.  The other option is one that will use the U.S. for personal gain and throw away the leftovers uncaringly.  The cost in life and liberty is not worth it.  If you fear a fascist state I would keep my eye on her very closely.  A nation where the government controls less of your life is not the kind that can become fascist easily.

I didn't realize my distaste based on personal knowledge and experience would bother you.  I think all bad ideas should be challenged and corrected.  Trump I think is far more pliable to the needs/desires of the citizens.  But, I am silly as you say.

Offline Doctor_Chill

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #662 on: June 07, 2016, 10:14:33 PM »
Johnson/Weld 2016!
“It’s a dangerous thing, pretense. A man ought to know who he is, even if he isn’t proud to be it.” - Tomorrow the Killing, Daniel Polansky

Offline Rostum

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #663 on: June 07, 2016, 10:29:57 PM »
Quote
I didn't realize my distaste based on personal knowledge and experience would bother you.  I think all bad ideas should be challenged and corrected.  Trump I think is far more pliable to the needs/desires of some citizens.  But, I am silly as you say.

I think you will find women, muslims and hispanics can be citizens as well.
America has a history of pliable presidents being led by the nose not by the citizens but by big business.
I do know a little about the Clintons and dislike the power and influence that they wield. That said Bill Clinton was one of the best presidents for the American people of the 20th century. He employed people, created sensible education reform, he turned the army into a social welfare and daycare system. Which the provided higher education to the enlisted. The wealth of the general population was was raised and you hardly invaded anywhere. Thats got to be a win from from a world perspective. Sadly the money still moves upwards and you are back to ensuring the rich get richer at the expense of pretty much everybody else.

Offline m3mnoch

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #664 on: June 07, 2016, 10:33:46 PM »
again, from the lede of that article i posted:
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/donald-trump-does-not-have-campaign

Quote
“Bottom line, you can hire all the top people in the world, but to what end? Trump does what he wants,” a source close to the campaign said.

he can't be led by the nose.  he won't sit passively and do what he's told.  he won't hang around and tweet.  he will aggressively chase his own, seat-of-the-pants agenda.

Offline tebakutis

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #665 on: June 07, 2016, 10:36:22 PM »
Just when I think I'm out, they rope me back in! :)

EDIT: Looking at this post without the red haze that overtook my vision when I read your original response, I believe some of it was disrespectful when it should not have been. I've edited the tone, but not the content.

Let's go over this, shall we? Trump, to date...

-Has openly advocated War Crimes.  Not that I expect him to admit wrong doing.  When was the last time he brought this up?  March?  He went silent on the issue.  I would want him to renounce that position but, I can assure you no matter how bad you think of the military they would never carry out that order. 

I don't believe our military would defy a direct order from their commander-in-chief. I'm not aware of a time in recent memory where the military refused to carry out an order from the President of the United States. If you can cite one, I'd be curious. The United States military does not set our foreign policy, it carries it out.

And to describe Trump's policy in his own words, he has advocated for more waterboarding (it doesn't go far enough, he says), as well as sharing that lovely story about dipping bullets in pig's blood (take that, Muslims!) and intentionally targeting the families of terrorists (yes, let's go after women and children).

I can't accept your statement of "Well, sure, he should walk back some of his statements of war crimes, but if he asked our military to do those sort of things, I'm sure they'd refuse" as valid. For a person in the military to refuse a direct order of the President of the United States is treason. If you think that it's acceptable to elect someone who would give our military the choice to commit war crimes or commit treason, you need to rethink your position.

There's a reason most of the other leaders of the free world fear President Trump, and it's not because he's going to "Make American Great Again." It's because he has zero understanding of how foreign relations and military operations work.

-Has openly mocked women, disabled people and McCain for being a Prisoner of War  See your narcissistic manchild who attacks opponents and then later talks them up when they are supposed to be allies.

I'm not sure I understand who you're referring to here. Neither Sanders or Clinton has openly mocked the disabled, or said "I like my heroes to not get captured". If I missed a case of that, I'd be happy for a link.

-Has openly threatened to shut down news organisations that mock him.   The press don't care as they shouldn't. Now if we could only get them to start actually bringing facts on all sides out instead of picking sides.

Whether or not you believe "the press" is doing their job (and I have a ton of problems with how they've handled things, including giving Trump all the free air time) a President should not be openly saying he's going to shut down the fourth estate because they don't agree with them.

Freedom of the press is one of the best things an open democracy has going for it. You know who doesn't have freedom of the press? China and North Korea.

-Refuses to denounce hate groups/white supremacists who support him.    http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/03/politics/donald-trump-disavows-david-duke-kkk/index.html

You're right here. He did denounce David Duke. He only had to sit and think about it for a few days. The person I want for president would be able to say immediately, when directly asked "I do not accept the endorsement of a racist leader of the KKK". Trump refused to say this when asked, repeatedly. He had to think about his denouncement for days.

-Is openly bigoted  Yes unfortunately so HRC she just hides it better.  https://socialistworker.org/2016/01/26/the-clintons-shameful-hypocrisy-on-racism

One candidate being racist doesn't make another candidate being racist okay. Being racist isn't okay, period, so this doesn't excuse Trump. And again, Trump is far more *openly* racist than Hillary (if you accept that she's racist, which I don't) and the fact that he is openly racist is inspiring his supports to be the same.

That isn't happening on Hillary's side.

-Is openly sexist  This is a very mixed bag.  I have seen opinions both ways I will wait for evidence.

If "bleeding out of her whatever" and his vast litany of derogatory comments about women haven't convinced you, I'm not sure anything could. However, there is no mixed bag. Unless you ignore a large number of on the record statements from Trump, his misogyny is well documented.

-Has zilch in the way of political experience   So yes this is where I agree and don't mind at all really.  Give me a better outsider and I would probably back them as well.

I disagree. This feeds into "let's get all the smart, experienced people out of government." This is a bad precedent. For years (since Bush I) there's been this growing perception that anyone who has experience, intelligence, or higher education is "bad" for the country. That is incorrect.

I want educated leaders, not uneducated ones. And say what you will about Hillary, but she has education and experience. Trump might have education, but lacks experience in politics, domestic policy, foreign policy, diplomacy, and every other area where our commander-in-chief should be well educated.

-Is a habitual liar (and this is by politician standards, which are already fairly terrible)   The difference here?

Again, saying another person does it doesn't excuse Trump. And all you have to do is compare them to see that Trump lies FAR more often, and far more randomly. I honestly wonder sometimes if he lies so much as simply forgets what he said five minutes after he said it. Either is bad.

-Has openly advocated for his supporters to beat up protesters and refuses to condemn those that do    Vice the other not publicly condemning violence of their own supporters which to date I believe has been significantly more extreme?

Patently false. Hillary has never told her supporters to commit violence, and has repeatedly denounced cases where it happened. Trump has openly stated things like "Well, maybe he had it coming" and "what he was doing was terrible, so he deserved it". Just scroll a few pages back in this thread to find those links.

-Acts tough but has a thinner skin than plastic wrap  Once again give me another option?  HRC is adept at controlling who is around her when not in control she is pretty bad about taking criticism.  Actually anytime she doesn't know she has a camera on her she is pretty thin skinned.

Again, this is demonstrateably false. Go watch the Benghazi hearings again to see just how unflappable she is. Republicans have been throwing every accusation under the sun at her since Bill Clinton was president, and she's still undeterred. Last I checked, Trump was busy accusing a judge of being a "Mexican racist" because the judge is presiding over a lawsuit related to his university.

-Has only one real consistent policy (the Mexico Wall) which not only would be ridiculous and expensive but, as anyone with any kind of knowledge of illegal immigration would tell you, would not work in the slightest.   https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/immigration-reform  Enforcing the law would help.  I would take a deeper look at the entire policy plan.

You can't look at Trump's plan because he doesn't *have* a plan. It changes from day to day and works entirely in generalities. Again, his lack of experience is telling. Not a person I want as president.

-Can be reasonably argued that he's a genuine fascist   Our definitions of fascism differ.  When I have evidence of Trump supporters trying to drown out liberal opinions in an open forum and when you have a conservative riot over a liberal gathering.  When I see fact and debate vice one sides fact with source drowned out by catchy phrases and closed minds then I will agree with you on this.

I agree that definitions of fascim differ, but even if you don't say Trump goes that far, the rest of his traits (idiocy, lying, racism, advocating violence, misogyny, and thin skin) are more than enough of an argument that he should not be a candidate for the president of the United States.

Sorry to say this, but what remains of the Republican party has just straight up lost its mind this year. That's why you see people like Paul Ryan openly criticizing Trump, the Republican nominee.

I didn't realize my distaste based on personal knowledge and experience would bother you.  I think all bad ideas should be challenged and corrected.  Trump I think is far more pliable to the needs/desires of the citizens.  But, I am silly as you say.

I don't think you're silly. I think you genuinely care about this country, and you have genuine concerns about Hillary Clinton. I respect that, but in this case, I'm telling you, straight up, that you've got a great many facts wrong. You are factually incorrect.

Also, I have to disagree with you that we should overlook all Trump's failings on the off chance that he will "do nothing" as president, instead of implementing all the disastrous policies he's proposed.

Respect.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2016, 11:47:58 PM by tebakutis »

Offline Rukaio_Alter

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #666 on: June 07, 2016, 11:23:31 PM »
Let's go over this, shall we? Trump, to date...

-Has openly advocated War Crimes.  Not that I expect him to admit wrong doing.  When was the last time he brought this up?  March?  He went silent on the issue.  I would want him to renounce that position but, I can assure you no matter how bad you think of the military they would never carry out that order.
I'm sorry, what freaking logic is this?! It's acceptable because he hasn't brought it up for a while?! Really?! Just... really?!

And, as I mentioned before, saying that we should vote Trump in because there's a chance he might not do what he says he's going to do is a terrible argument regardless of how you spin it.

Quote
-Has openly mocked women, disabled people and McCain for being a Prisoner of War  See your narcissistic manchild who attacks opponents and then later talks them up when they are supposed to be allies.

There's nothing wrong with attacking an opponent in politics before teaming up later. Clinton and Obama did so in their primary. But those attacks were largely based on policy or experience. Trump was mocking women for being women, disabled people for being disabled people and, again, McCain for being a fucking prisoner of war! That is what makes despicable and unpresidential.

Quote
-Has openly threatened to shut down news organisations that mock him.   The press don't care as they shouldn't. Now if we could only get them to start actually bringing facts on all sides out instead of picking sides.
Reporting what Trump is actually saying is not the same as 'picking sides'. Also 'they don't care' means we should friggin ignore it? Wha?


Quote
-Refuses to denounce hate groups/white supremacists who support him.    http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/03/politics/donald-trump-disavows-david-duke-kkk/index.html
Yes, after the public twisted his arm on it. It also hasn't stopped him from repeatedly retweeting comments from hate group/white supremacist accounts and not denouncing them either.

Quote
-Is openly bigoted  Yes unfortunately so HRC she just hides it better.  https://socialistworker.org/2016/01/26/the-clintons-shameful-hypocrisy-on-racism
First of all, look up what the word 'openly' means. Second of all, that article really doesn't make a strong case for Hillairy apparently being racist. Supporting a possible dodgy welfare bill and having some wacko racist supporters does not make her racist (unless you're willing to claim that Sanders deserves blame for all the 'Bernie Bros' harassing people).

Third, and most importantly of all, even if those examples did indicate racism it's still nothing compared to what Donald Trump has been saying. This is the guy who claims most Mexican immigrants are murderers and rapists, that Muslims should be banned from entering the country and is currently claiming a Mexican judge can't do his job impartially because of his heritage. When Hillary Clinton gets even close to that level of open bigotry, then you can start calling her as bad as Trump.

Quote
-Is openly sexist  This is a very mixed bag.  I have seen opinions both ways I will wait for evidence.
Is it hell. He claimed Megyn Kelly was giving a hard time in a debate because she was menstruating. He, just recently, said that he'd consider female judges to be just as unable to be as impartial in his cases as the Mexican judge. He objectified his one-year old daughter.

Quote
-Has zilch in the way of political experience   So yes this is where I agree and don't mind at all really.  Give me a better outsider and I would probably back them as well.
This is the kind of logic that just makes me slap my head against a wall. If you need someone to fix your toilet, do you call a librarian rather than a plumber? No because they probably don't know the first thing about fixing toilets. Same thing here. Politicians are trained to have the knowledge and experience to try and run a country. Donald Trump does not.

Quote
-Is a habitual liar (and this is by politician standards, which are already fairly terrible)   The difference here?
Politicians try not to actively and openly lie because, if they're discovered, it'll hurt them. Instead, they tend to go for concealed and half truths. And while you could make the argument that hidden lies are more dangerous than open lies, that's simply not true here. Because Donald lies so constantly and so blatantly that it's impossible to tell whether anything he's saying is the truth or what he believes in or what he's planning to do. When you listen to a regular politician speak, at least you know that their statement is likely technically true, even if there are things hidden behind the surface. When Donald speaks, you don't know if anything he says is true. How is that better?

Quote
-Has openly advocated for his supporters to beat up protesters and refuses to condemn those that do    Vice the other not publicly condemning violence of their own supporters which to date I believe has been significantly more extreme?
Really? Because I've yet to see any Clinton/Sanders supporters sucker punch someone. And definitely I've yet to see either of them praise a supporter for violently attacking someone. Certainly there have been protests, but that's within their right.

Quote
-Acts tough but has a thinner skin than plastic wrap  Once again give me another option?  HRC is adept at controlling who is around her when not in control she is pretty bad about taking criticism.  Actually anytime she doesn't know she has a camera on her she is pretty thin skinned.
Yeah, but that has more to do with the fact that the media and Republicans have been trying every dirty trick to tear her down for basically the last 25 years. I'd be a little pricky myself after all that. And she's never resorted to throwing a temper tantrum like Trump has.

Quote
-Has only one real consistent policy (the Mexico Wall) which not only would be ridiculous and expensive but, as anyone with any kind of knowledge of illegal immigration would tell you, would not work in the slightest.   https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/immigration-reform  Enforcing the law would help.  I would take a deeper look at the entire policy plan.
Okay, first of all, are you seriously trying to claim that Donald Trump's website is going to be a reliable and unbiased source on this matter?

Second of all, no, no matter what else he might add on, the wall is still ridiculous, expensive and not going to work.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=vU8dCYocuyI

Quote
-Can be reasonably argued that he's a genuine fascist   Our definitions of fascism differ.  When I have evidence of Trump supporters trying to drown out liberal opinions in an open forum and when you have a conservative riot over a liberal gathering.  When I see fact and debate vice one sides fact with source drowned out by catchy phrases and closed minds then I will agree with you on this.

A campaign based on a platform of scapegoating minorities? Threatening to shut down press freedom? Poltical violence? Applying restrictions to certain groups/minorites? None of this ringing a bell?

Certainly, it's not a 100% thing, which is why I said 'can be reasonably argued', but the parallels are frightening.

Quote
-Is an immature, narcissistic manchild    This is why I want a do nothing president Trump who tells us his plans openly so we can shut down the bad ones.
 
I'm sorry, but this just ridiculous on all levels. I reemphasis, you seriously think we should vote Trump in because there's a chance his stupid ideas might not come to fruition? That's not any kind of sensible logic. That's like ordering a ham sandwich in the hopes that it might somehow transform into a cheese sandwich. Or, for a more accurate example, like bringing home a wild and savage dog which you know is wild and savage, which experts have told you is wild and savage, which you have seen examples of it being wild and savage in the hopes that it might not attack you and your children. Because Trump has made no attempts to hide his despicableness. Even his claims that he'll tone it down for the general election have very quickly fallen apart. And you seriously think this egotist is going to let it all go once he's in the oval office? Really?

Quote
The other option is one that will use the U.S. for personal gain and throw away the leftovers uncaringly.  The cost in life and liberty is not worth it.  If you fear a fascist state I would keep my eye on her very closely.  A nation where the government controls less of your life is not the kind that can become fascist easily.
Yeah, I'm sorry, but what evidence do you have of any of this aside from hearsay and gossip and speculation? You openly admitted you had nothing to do with the Hillary campaign and are basing your opinions entirely on water cooler chatter. That's not a reliable source. We, on the other hand, are criticizing Donald for stuff he is actually openly saying here.

Also, I'm fairly certain this sort of ridiculous stuff was said about Obama back in 2008. And remember how he turned America into a fascist state? No? Exactly.

Quote
I didn't realize my distaste based on personal knowledge and experience would bother you.  I think all bad ideas should be challenged and corrected.  Trump I think is far more pliable to the needs/desires of the citizens.  But, I am silly as you say.
Yes, I think you're silly. Very silly. I know everyone else likes to try and keep things friendly and polite here, but I'm not going to sugarcoat this. Voting for/supporting Trump means you support, or at least tolerate, his views. You support banning Muslims from entering the country. You support shutting down press freedom. You support Trump's open racism/sexism/manbaby attitude because, whether you think he'll go through with it or not, that is what he is offering. And what he's offering is not just silly. It's dangerous.
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Offline tebakutis

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #667 on: June 07, 2016, 11:55:28 PM »
Also, on a more general level, I think it best to clearly state some beliefs I have that will not change. If you're going to discuss politics with me, these are good things to keep in mind.

1: The statement that voting for candidates with less education and experience is good is ludicrous.

I believe the growing idea that we need less educated, less experienced people in politics is false. This idea has been festering for more than a decade now, and it has given us people like Sarah Palin and Donald Trump. To lay out just how silly this idea is, here are some comparisons.

- I'm going to have open heart surgery. I want to hire someone who did not graduate from medical school, and has never done any other surgeries.

- My car has broken down. To fix it, I want to hire someone who knows nothing about cars. In fact, I'd like someone who doesn't even know how to change their own oil.

- I'd like my child to learn to read. To teach them, I want something who is illiterate and hasn't read any existing books.

I could go on and on, but this idea that the best politicians are "outsiders" with no political experience is ludicrous. I can think of no other profession where I hear anyone, on the left or right, saying that the best person to perform a service for them is a person who does *not* know how to perform that service.

2: Because another person does it, the fact that the person I'm endorsing does it is okay.

This is the other argument I see made time and again by people on both the left and the right. Basically, it boils down to this.

Person A: Your candidate is a racist.

Person B: Well, your candidate is a racist too, so we shouldn't care that my candidate is a racist.

This is not acceptable. The correct response is "No candidate should be a racist, and if my candidate is a racist, I believe they should not be."

I'm tired of hearing people make excuses for politicians (or anyone, for that matter) using the justification that other politicians are "just as bad". No. We should demand better from our elected representatives.

Carry on.

Offline m3mnoch

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #668 on: June 08, 2016, 12:00:48 AM »
personally, i enjoy (and, by enjoy, i mean eyeroll) when folks hold grudges against hillary for something she said  20 years ago against her today.  yet!  they'll be like "donald trump was just kidding when he said that stupid and terrible thing two months ago because he hasn't mentioned it since."

edit:

speaking of false dichotomies, if you're a rich dude, it's totally cool.  you're powerful, bro.  if you're a rich chick?  stupid, wasteful, distasteful!!

http://nypost.com/2016/06/05/hillarys-extravagant-campaign-wardrobe-costs-at-least-200k/
« Last Edit: June 08, 2016, 12:31:09 AM by m3mnoch »

Offline WPaladin

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #669 on: June 08, 2016, 03:19:25 AM »
I am silly and stuck in a horrid place.  I can not in good conscience ever vote for Clinton.  Bernie I wish had a better shot without being held back by his own party.  That is even if I disagree with his vision of the U.S.  I really would love to see some working class or middle class people get to run for big public office.  I would love to see alternative candidates right now.  Unfortunately my hands are tied on the issue.

Offline tebakutis

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #670 on: June 08, 2016, 06:17:13 AM »
I am silly and stuck in a horrid place.  I can not in good conscience ever vote for Clinton.  Bernie I wish had a better shot without being held back by his own party.  That is even if I disagree with his vision of the U.S.  I really would love to see some working class or middle class people get to run for big public office.  I would love to see alternative candidates right now.  Unfortunately my hands are tied on the issue.

A lot of people refuse to vote for Hillary Clinton. You're not alone, and I don't think anyone should vote for someone they don't agree with. If you intensely dislike Clinton, you have absolutely no reason to vote for her. All I'm saying is ... don't vote for Trump.

I wish the Republican party had chosen a better candidate, I really do. I know reasonable Republicans who are very upset that they don't have a sane choice for a candidate. I've seen a number of more traditional Republicans burning their voter cards rather than vote for Trump.

One story on the subject:

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/05/republicans-are-burning-voter-registration-cards.html

I think the danger is that Republicans feel they have to vote for Trump, despite him not being remotely qualified to be our president, to keep Hillary out of office. But the reality is, no matter how you feel about Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump would be far, far worse. He's proven that time and again, and will continue to prove it as the campaign continues.

So, don't vote for Hillary. But don't vote for Trump either, because if enough people do that, the US is ****ed. Write in the name of a candidate you truly believe in, or vote third party. But don't let your animosity toward Hillary drive you toward electing someone who is possibly the worst candidate for president we've seen in fifty years.

If I convince even one person who reads these forums not to toss a vote toward Donald Trump, I will count that as my personal contribution to not turning the United States into Idiocracy.

Offline JMack

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #671 on: June 08, 2016, 11:56:59 AM »
I am so wishing I had the option to vote for Paul Ryan or John Kasich. Not saying I would or wouldn't, but it would be so heartening to have a real choice.
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You are being naive if you think that any sweet and light theme cannot be strangled and force fed it's own flesh. (Nora)
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Offline m3mnoch

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #672 on: June 08, 2016, 02:57:01 PM »
If I convince even one person who reads these forums not to toss a vote toward Donald Trump, I will count that as my personal contribution to not turning the United States into Idiocracy.

we watched that again the other night.  i'm pretty sure there are shows just as stupid as "ow, my balls!" on tv now.  it's on of the reasons we don't subscribe to cable.


I am so wishing I had the option to vote for Paul Ryan or John Kasich. Not saying I would or wouldn't, but it would be so heartening to have a real choice.

i do find it amusing that the only people posting these memes are republicans:


and the people railing against "the system" are bernie supporters:


and hillary supporters (like my wife) are all just quietly going about their day.

Offline WPaladin

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #673 on: June 08, 2016, 03:30:44 PM »

i do find it amusing that the only people posting these memes are republicans:


and the people railing against "the system" are bernie supporters:


and hillary supporters (like my wife) are all just quietly going about their day.

The system was heavily slanted against Bernie Sanders.  The rules of the contest were made to allow that.  If Bernie were thought of as a legitimate contestant for the nomination the Democratic Party would have given them equal support.  I completely disagree with him on the majority of his stances but the lack of monetary and political support behind him in his own party in favor of Hillary Clinton from the beginning was seemingly unfair.  If they had been on equal footing within the party from the beginning I don't think it would be as cut and dry as it is now.  Snowballing of public opinion is pretty common amongst human beings.  However systems for changing the way races are run in the future are in place.  Bernie is able to voice his grievances at the convention so there is a chance to change the balance for the future Bernies out there. 

Offline m3mnoch

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #674 on: June 08, 2016, 03:42:02 PM »
The system was heavily slanted against Bernie Sanders.  The rules of the contest were made to allow that.  If Bernie were thought of as a legitimate contestant for the nomination the Democratic Party would have given them equal support.  I completely disagree with him on the majority of his stances but the lack of monetary and political support behind him in his own party in favor of Hillary Clinton from the beginning was seemingly unfair.  If they had been on equal footing within the party from the beginning I don't think it would be as cut and dry as it is now.  Snowballing of public opinion is pretty common amongst human beings.  However systems for changing the way races are run in the future are in place.  Bernie is able to voice his grievances at the convention so there is a chance to change the balance for the future Bernies out there.

you don't think that it has something to do with him being an independent elected official since 1981, only switching to democrat last year in order to run for president?