October 15, 2019, 02:41:41 AM

Author Topic: Politics and other ailments of the real world  (Read 267337 times)

Offline JMack

  • Hircum Magna Rex of the Fabled Atku Temple, and writing contest regular
  • Writing Group
  • Ringbearer
  • *****
  • Posts: 6963
  • Total likes: 4738
  • Gender: Male
  • Our daily efforts are love poems to the universe.
    • View Profile
    • Tales of Starlit Lands
Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #615 on: May 19, 2016, 11:40:29 AM »
I may have mentioned that I learned the word "faggot" as applied to homosexual men comes from the good old days when they were burned at the stake for their crimes. I don't think I'll ever complain about hijacking the word "gay" ever again.
Change, when it comes, will step lightly before it kicks like thunder. (GRMatthews)
You are being naive if you think that any sweet and light theme cannot be strangled and force fed it's own flesh. (Nora)
www.starlit-lands.com

Offline Rostum

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #616 on: May 19, 2016, 01:34:11 PM »
I think the term faggot applied to homosexuals is 19th-20th centuary. Do you have any evidence for this. Not trying to be any more arguementative than normal but I have never come across an auto de fe for and sexual trangression?

Offline m3mnoch

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #617 on: May 19, 2016, 02:44:29 PM »
I think the term faggot applied to homosexuals is 19th-20th centuary. Do you have any evidence for this. Not trying to be any more arguementative than normal but I have never come across an auto de fe for and sexual trangression?

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=faggot

Offline ScarletBea

  • Welcome party and bringer of Cake. 2nd-in-Command of the Writing Contest
  • Powers That Be
  • Big Wee Hag
  • *
  • Posts: 11064
  • Total likes: 6383
  • Gender: Female
  • Geeky Reading Introvert
    • View Profile
    • LibraryThing profile
Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #618 on: May 19, 2016, 02:51:36 PM »
I think the term faggot applied to homosexuals is 19th-20th centuary. Do you have any evidence for this. Not trying to be any more arguementative than normal but I have never come across an auto de fe for and sexual trangression?

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=faggot
Thanks, m3m! It seems Jmack was caught in an urban legend.
At home in the Fantasy Faction forum!

"Let us think the unthinkable, let us do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all" - Douglas Adams

Offline m3mnoch

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #619 on: May 19, 2016, 03:15:02 PM »
I think the term faggot applied to homosexuals is 19th-20th centuary. Do you have any evidence for this. Not trying to be any more arguementative than normal but I have never come across an auto de fe for and sexual trangression?

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=faggot
Thanks, m3m! It seems Jmack was caught in an urban legend.

i think jmack IS an urban legend.

Offline Rostum

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #620 on: May 19, 2016, 07:51:49 PM »
Even the link states people burnt at the stake for there sexuality. I know of none in Europe at all.

Offline tebakutis

  • Falsely Puffed Up Rascal Pig and Writing Contest Regular
  • Writing Group
  • Master Namer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2440
  • Total likes: 1746
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • www.tebakutis.com
Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #621 on: May 26, 2016, 08:54:44 PM »
There are now, definitively, enough people in the United States who believe Donald J. Trump would make a great president. He has clinched the Republican nomination. On behalf of the US, I'd like to apologize to every other country in the world. We tried (well, at least half of us).

http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/26/politics/donald-trump-has-delegates-to-clinch-gop-nomination/index.html

The other half of the US, of course, is no doubt thrilled that we'll soon be magically deporting every "Mexican" in America, forcing Mexico to build a magic wall it can neither afford and has repeatedly said it will not build, ensuring "the gays" can't get married, protecting our children from the transgender boogeymen who exist for no other reason than to enter the wrong bathroom, stopping "those corrupt scientists" from fooling the world regarding climate change, keeping "the govm't from coming for our guns!", barring Muslims from entering the United States (cause, you know, every Muslim in existence is a terrorist, right?) and hey, while we're at it, why don't we put those Muslims on a national list too? That worked out well in the past.

Even if the democratic candidate (whether that be Hillary or Bernie) defeats Trump in the general, I honestly consider this a turning point for American politics. The "old GOP" - people like George W. Bush, Bob Dole, John McCain, et all ... they're done. I don't think the right wing is coming back from this. The bar has been set, and that bar is Donald J. Trump. The next guy to run for his spot is going to have to be even crazier.

Trump is the new face of the right wing. While there was some initial push back on the right before the primary ended (I linked a bunch of notable conservatives who laid out what an awful candidate Trump was) now that he has clinched the nomination, these same conservatives are, one by one, falling in line behind him. "Winning", I suppose, is more important than, you know, electing an idiot. Also, I guess they'd prefer to be on the inside of a disastrous administration than on the outside, which is a cynical but rational move.

The conservative party in this country has nominated (and is now rapidly consolidating their support behind) an openly racist, xenophobic, misogynistic ignoramus. They are completely willing to let him set our social and economic policy, our foreign policy, command our military, and control our nuclear arsenal. They are cheering for a man who officially ranks above terrorism as the biggest threat to world stability.

Even if Trump loses the general election, I really doubt the millions who voted for him are going away. Given these people have proven 100% immune to any attempts to alter their viewpoints about "the scary browns and gays taking their country away and seizing all their guns", they'll simply vote for the next guy who insists he'll "Make America Great Again!" ... whatever the hell that means.

It is a depressing day.

Offline ultamentkiller

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #622 on: May 26, 2016, 09:20:48 PM »
Proper doom for everyone! The world shall burn!

Offline tebakutis

  • Falsely Puffed Up Rascal Pig and Writing Contest Regular
  • Writing Group
  • Master Namer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2440
  • Total likes: 1746
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • www.tebakutis.com
Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #623 on: May 26, 2016, 10:28:59 PM »
Proper doom for everyone! The world shall burn!

Hehe, you joke now. Wait until we're both drinking Brawndo and watching the latest episode of Ow, My Balls.

But to be honest about what's going to happen to you and me if Trump is elected, the answer is ... not much. We're both straight white dudes, and we have pretty much all the rights we need. We can get married, live wherever we like, and have any job we like without fear of being fired for our sexual preference or religion. We have it pretty good, all things considered.

As much as I harp on how terrible Trump is, the short answer is that is likely won't change either of our lives that much. Sure, he's terrible for a lot of *other* people, but for us ... he's really not going to have a huge impact. That doesn't comfort me at all, but I know it does comfort a lot of other people.

So one thing I'm curious about, since we argue about politics a great deal ... and you don't have to answer this if you're not comfortable doing so. Have you ever considered what it might be like to be in different shoes than you are now? Do you think you would feel differently about the things we often argue about?

Let's say you were born black, or LGBT, or a Muslim, or Latino, or a woman who one day might day need access to healthcare or an abortion. In that case, many of the rights you take for granted may be stripped from you if Trump gets elected. For instance, you might not be allowed to marry the person you love, or you might not be able to live in certain areas. You couldn't even use the public bathroom matching your genitalia, assuming that's changed from what's on your birth certificate.

Do you think you'd be more worried about Trump than you are now?

I ask because I realize that a lot of my outrage and social activism is, ultimately, directed at protecting people who aren't me. And to a lesser extent, people wouldn't support Trump unless they agreed with him on his platform ideas, oppressive, racist, and misogynistic though they may be.

I respect you, Ultament, and I enjoy our discussions, but I really do have a hard time understanding the mindset here. Trump has said he will ban Muslims from entering the country, suggested woman should be punished for having abortions, and a half dozen other incendiary statements. This really doesn't bother you?
« Last Edit: May 26, 2016, 10:30:31 PM by tebakutis »

Offline Nighteyes

  • Send me Leopard Erotica.
  • Ringbearer
  • *****
  • Posts: 6770
  • Total likes: 1446
  • OH WOW! JUST WORKED OUT HOW TO DO THIS!!!!!
    • View Profile
Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #624 on: May 27, 2016, 06:53:47 AM »
I think the term faggot applied to homosexuals is 19th-20th centuary. Do you have any evidence for this. Not trying to be any more arguementative than normal but I have never come across an auto de fe for and sexual trangression?

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=faggot
Thanks, m3m! It seems Jmack was caught in an urban legend.

I remember giggling at an Edward Thomas poem at school called The 50 faggots. Was actually about people collecting faggots for the winter. No awareness of any inenuendo so certainly that expression is later than World War I.

The Real Powers That Be

BeardKing

  • Guest
Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #625 on: May 27, 2016, 06:54:02 PM »
Have you ever considered what it might be like to be in different shoes than you are now?

Unfortunately, most right wing people I've encountered have a problem with empathy. It doesn't matter unless it effects them.

For example, my best friends' mom is a very right wing Catholic and hated gay people, until she found out her own daughter was gay. Now after dealing with it and accepting her own daughter, she's fine with it.

Empathy seems to be (again, in my encounters) something most right wingers don't understand.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2016, 06:55:48 PM by BeardKing »

Offline m3mnoch

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #626 on: May 27, 2016, 07:11:51 PM »
Have you ever considered what it might be like to be in different shoes than you are now?

Unfortunately, most right wing people I've encountered have a problem with empathy. It doesn't matter unless it effects them.

For example, my best friends' mom is a very right wing Catholic and hated gay people, until she found out her own daughter was gay. Now after dealing with it and accepting her own daughter, she's fine with it.

Empathy seems to be (again, in my encounters) something most right wingers don't understand.


i dunno if it's an empathy thing, but both of my sets of parents have gone through this.  my dad and step-mom with the out-of-wedlock pregnancy of my step sister.  my mom with the difficulties of immigration because she started working in the undergrad department at a university with lots of foreign students.

all of a sudden, they're staunch advocates of liberal thoughts on their respective issues.

but!

my dad is still all "immigrants just need to get legal!" and my mom is still all "out of wedlock births are for trash".

/sigh

Offline ultamentkiller

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #627 on: May 27, 2016, 08:09:37 PM »
Have you ever considered what it might be like to be in different shoes than you are now?

Unfortunately, most right wing people I've encountered have a problem with empathy. It doesn't matter unless it effects them.

For example, my best friends' mom is a very right wing Catholic and hated gay people, until she found out her own daughter was gay. Now after dealing with it and accepting her own daughter, she's fine with it.

Empathy seems to be (again, in my encounters) something most right wingers don't understand.
I wouldn't call it a lack of empathy. It's more of a logical approach than an emotional one, which comes across as cold to others. Also, you have to respect that people believe different things, even if you think they're completely wrong. So to them, their logic will be completely different from yours, because they're most likely viewing it from a completely different moral code.

I'm not fully right either. I believe when I posted the results of which side I'm on, my beliefs only coincide with 13 percent of the population. I tend to be conservative on economic issues, and liberal on social policies. I really have thought about how it's going to effect other people than myself. The difference is, just like with the democratic candidates, half of the stuff everyone talks about will never happen. So why should I worry?

Take a look at it from the conservative viewpoint when Obama became elective. Back then, I was more firm in the right, and was shouting prophecies of doom and destruction from the tops of mountains. And look where we are now? Was his Presidency great? Not really. Was it terrible? Not really. It's kind of neutral at this point.

And now, I'm seeing the same thing happen, but it's from the left instead of the right. To be honest, I'm laughing because the roles are reversed. Sure, things could really go downhill, but that's with any president. And I know we've had this discussion before, but lots of the things said are really exaggerated, just like they were with Obama. Trump talks. And talks. and talks. That's what he's good at. He's also good at saying the right things to the right crowd, and then making supporters forget about his lies and hypocrisy a week later. I'm curious to see what happens when the final debates roll around. How much of his tune will change?

Also, even though a lot of crazy things are the public stance of the Republican party, that doesn't mean every single person in the party stands for them. So when it comes time for Congress to vote, it may not go the way people expect it to. For example, take into consideration the National Federation of the Blind, and organization I have a decent leadership role in. They have official stances on issues that I don't agree with at all. And yet I still choose to take part in their movement, because I believe that, at the core, they match my beliefs best. Yet whenever the NFB is talked about, all everyone points out is the radical side of issues, and the official stances on things. They don't take into consideration the people in the middle who also have the power to change and not support the official stance. I see this same thing happen with Republicans and Democrats alike. In my household, I hear all the time about the radical Left movement. On the Internet, I hear all the time about the radical right movement. From the left side, I see it this way. A lot of times they complain about stereotypes and how they aren't right, yet love to toss them at the other side. And one of the stereotypes is that the right stereotypes. It's hilarious. It's not one side or the other that stereotypes. It's the human race. That's what we do. Now, if I throw out a comment like, "Stereotypes exist for a reason," how many people will become angry? Yet if the right says something to defend those stereotypes and try to correct them, the left will use that same argument without realizing the hypocrisy.

Bottom line, the world is not ending. Life will go on. Could things get bad? Yes. Will they? No matter who gets elected, probably not, despite what the opposing side would have you think. The media would have you believe that if Republicans get elected,nuclear war will begin. Yet when it comes to a bad candidate on their side, they won't say a word. Don't fall into their panic. The best thing we all can do is try to support which side we think is right, and live with the consequences. Spreading thoughts of fear and Apocolypse  doesn't help the situation at all. if anything, you're just turning more Republicans away from the discussion, because no one wants to listen to someone who can only point out the negative.

This is not a personal shot at you. Honestly, I enjoy your perspective. I'm just too relaxed to become panicked over things that may or may not happen. I also don't respond well to fear mongering, which is half of the reason I never watch the news. It's not a good strategy for making others see your pov.

Offline Rostum

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #628 on: May 28, 2016, 01:17:39 PM »
Two interesting perspectives. The questions I have is why is the choice usually between those who are least fit to lead? Why is this accepted without question? Why is the aim to elect the least damaging candidate and why is the illusion of choice accetable?

Offline marshall_lamour

  • Soulfinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 78
  • Total likes: 15
  • Creator of the "Children of Cataclysm" series.
    • View Profile
    • Thriambus
Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #629 on: May 28, 2016, 03:26:29 PM »
Two interesting perspectives. The questions I have is why is the choice usually between those who are least fit to lead? Why is this accepted without question? Why is the aim to elect the least damaging candidate and why is the illusion of choice accetable?
Because they're the most interested in the positions of leadership. A proper leader would be someone compelled out of duty, hopefully brought up with adequate faculties but with no ambition or intention to use them for that purpose. Our society is generally structured to reward moxie, rather than merit.
Discover the world of Aeva in book one of the Children of Cataclysm series: Sons of Exile