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Author Topic: Politics and other ailments of the real world  (Read 267393 times)

Offline JMack

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #555 on: April 20, 2016, 11:41:19 AM »
Definitely some incompetence. But also some normal processing of lists being viewed as dodgy during a heated election cycle.
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Offline Rostum

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #556 on: April 20, 2016, 01:14:33 PM »
Quote
Definitely some incompetence. But also some normal processing of lists being viewed as dodgy during a heated election cycle.

Then regardless of politics and election results this must be pursued and anyone found to have been involved punished to the full extent of the law. Rigging an election is bad enough and those involved should be imprisoned but change is only 4 years away. Breaking the process means you will never have a fair election again and its not the rational who will use this but those who can rationalise that they know whats best for everyone else.

Offline m3mnoch

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #557 on: April 20, 2016, 03:06:16 PM »
nah.  it's a sneaky party thing.

statistically speaking, republicans have repeatedly done better in elections when fewer people have come out to vote.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_suppression_in_the_United_States

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/08/28/republicans-admit-voter-id-laws-are-aimed-at-democratic-voters.html

Offline Rostum

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #558 on: April 20, 2016, 06:47:36 PM »
Only in the land of the free....

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Offline JMack

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #560 on: April 21, 2016, 02:17:37 AM »
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-36094881

WTF America?

You hadn't head about this? It was the flavor of the day outrage for the candidates during the Michigan primary campaign.
Change, when it comes, will step lightly before it kicks like thunder. (GRMatthews)
You are being naive if you think that any sweet and light theme cannot be strangled and force fed it's own flesh. (Nora)
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Offline Rostum

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #561 on: April 21, 2016, 11:31:54 AM »
No I had not, but I see how it could happen. It comes down to if you change an input variable you likely change an ouput variable and varience is what you try and remove from any process.

Either a correct risk assessment was carried out and suppressed or ignored or it was incompetant.
Then lead pipes, even in the uk we have 20th century solutions. Corroding your own infastructure will never end well and in this case released a toxic heavy metal into drinking water.
Then falsifying results because that was really going to stand up inn the light of day when people start getting admitted to hospital.

BeardKing

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #562 on: April 21, 2016, 02:30:51 PM »
I'm pretty sure today is the 203rd day where absolutely nothing has been done about the Flint water crisis.

The water pipelines in Flint are still poisoning people. And no one seems to care.

Offline m3mnoch

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #563 on: April 21, 2016, 02:53:14 PM »
it comes from treating government like a capitalistic venture -- running it like a business.

now, me?  i LOVE me some capitalism.  it got me where i am today.  i work hard, and i'm successful.  love, love, love.

however.

in capitalism, if you make bad decisions and cut the wrong corners, your business implodes, people lose their jobs and you have to file for bankruptcy protection.  it sucks, but it's not permanent and you can find a better job or start a better business.  in capitalism, there are, necessarily, a few winners and a majority of losers.

in government, if you make bad decisions and cut the wrong corners, people are permanently harmed.  or die.  or your country disappears.  you can't have losers, much less a majority of them.  you can't look at someone who might not be as talented, but who works just as hard as you do, and ruin their life just because they disagree with you.  or aren't as smart.  or don't move as fast.

you can't say "we have earned nicer water here, so we'll give them shit water to save money" because you end up poisoning them.  you don't just make the people find a new job to pay for better water, you do permanent brain damage to their children.

i love capitalism, but get it the HELL out of my government.  bureaucracy and "red tape" are there to slow your roll and force you to justify your plans and get majority agreement.  forces you to consider ALL aspects of your decisions.

it's slow and ponderous for a reason -- because failure can be permanent.

BeardKing

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #564 on: April 21, 2016, 02:58:31 PM »
Well said, @m3mnoch. Well said.

Offline tebakutis

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #565 on: April 21, 2016, 03:47:42 PM »
it comes from treating government like a capitalistic venture -- running it like a business.

now, me?  i LOVE me some capitalism.  it got me where i am today.  i work hard, and i'm successful.  love, love, love.

however.

in capitalism, if you make bad decisions and cut the wrong corners, your business implodes, people lose their jobs and you have to file for bankruptcy protection.  it sucks, but it's not permanent and you can find a better job or start a better business.  in capitalism, there are, necessarily, a few winners and a majority of losers.

in government, if you make bad decisions and cut the wrong corners, people are permanently harmed.  or die.  or your country disappears.  you can't have losers, much less a majority of them.  you can't look at someone who might not be as talented, but who works just as hard as you do, and ruin their life just because they disagree with you.  or aren't as smart.  or don't move as fast.

you can't say "we have earned nicer water here, so we'll give them shit water to save money" because you end up poisoning them.  you don't just make the people find a new job to pay for better water, you do permanent brain damage to their children.

i love capitalism, but get it the HELL out of my government.  bureaucracy and "red tape" are there to slow your roll and force you to justify your plans and get majority agreement.  forces you to consider ALL aspects of your decisions.

it's slow and ponderous for a reason -- because failure can be permanent.

+1 to everything here. I've been following this story for awhile, long before most of the media picked up on it, and it's been an absolute horror show.

The simple understanding you've just laid out is, unfortunately, lost on many in government today, including Governor Snyder, who STILL seems confused as to why people are upset about dead people, ruined infrastructure, and poisoned babies. Running government "like a business" is what leads to horrific situations like what happened in Flint. And yet you still have people running for office *this very moment* who use "let's run the government like a business" as their starting point. That is one of several reasons I will *never* vote for a politician who endorses that approach.

As a new parent of a (now) 19 month old, knowing that there are babies and toddlers in Flint who now have permanent brain damage due to lead poisoning caused by their government's stupid decision to save a few bucks on water both saddens and infuriates me. The only thing those children and their parents did to deserve that was to live in a city that happens to be poor. I cannot even begin to imagine what those parents must be feeling, though I'd hazard a guess it's an almost overwhelming mix of agony and rage.

And now, of course, I'm pissed off just typing this. Time to go watch a video of people assembling crazy things in Fantastic Contraption or something.

Offline Rostum

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #566 on: April 21, 2016, 06:08:31 PM »
Quote
it comes from treating government like a capitalistic venture -- running it like a business.

now, me?  i LOVE me some capitalism.  it got me where i am today.  i work hard, and i'm successful.  love, love, love.

however.

I kind of agree, but have yet to see a service that was better run as a profit engine. Apply this to healthcare, transport and municipal services and those who need them most wind up getting shafted. A service should be just that. I dont want them to run at a loss but they should never be run for the profit of the few. Every example i can think of in the UK has become more expensive for less, or a poorer service while staffs pay is frozen yet managers receive obscene pay rises and bonuses.  The USA has far clearer cut examples than the Uk.

Offline Rostum

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #567 on: April 21, 2016, 10:14:08 PM »
Congrats you have made the UK warning list.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-36104879

I wonder if I will live long enough to see America partitioned?

Offline ultamentkiller

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #568 on: April 22, 2016, 01:53:11 AM »
Potential rant incoming!
So, I heard something Trump said about agreeing with allowing anyone of any gender to enter any bathroom, no operation required. While I don't agree with this because of all the problems it may cause in schools(especially middle and high schools) and could increase the opportunity for sexual assault in public bathrooms, that's not what I'm here to discuss.

My stepdad is a Trump supporter. He wanted to know the official definition of transgenders. So I explained that it's someone who identifies as the opposite sex. I'll apologize ahead of time if I'm wrong. Anyway, his response? "So they're gay." "No," I said. "If they were gay, they would have to identify as a male.
Transgenders identify as the opposite sex, therefore calling them gay could be offensive." Obviously I have no idea if a transgender male would become offended or not, but, in theory, it's a good precaution. His response? "Well those people are stupid. They're gay because they're guys. The only reason they're claiming to be transgender is for special rights. Yup. That's gotta be it."

After a second of shock, I laughed and walked away. I mean, whah? Really, what special rights does the LGBT community get? It's not like colleges have quotas that force them to accept a certain amount of students with a sexual orientation that falls under the LGBT movement. Not that I know of anyway. Where's the benefits? You get slandered, bullied, looks... Ugh. I mean, maybe they're are a number of scholarships now that only accept LGBT members that are worth a lot of money, but even that is flimsy. You can get special scholarships for being left-handed.

I just don't understand this train of thought. People will come up with any argument necessary to justify keeping their current perspective on life. As I'm sure most of you know, I've said several things here that have gone against what a lot of you think. The responses have stuck with me. While I haven't completely changed my mind due to the overwhelming amount of conflicting information on both sides, I've gone from being almost certain to neutral. I still listen, I'm just not taking a side until I know more. However, this does not seem to be the case with him.

Honestly, it's frightening. He's about 60 years old. It scares me to know that I could potentially become as old and stubborn as him. It scares me that instead of wanting to learn, people are so quick to judge. This next statement could be very wrong, but it scares me to think that people who don't continue to watch and  read current forms of entertainment could miss gaining new perspectives on things. I consider myself to be very open-minded because of all the books I've read in the past year, and the ways new ideas have been presented to me as well as teaching me to get into the head of the opposing side. It's just... Wow.

Offline m3mnoch

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #569 on: April 22, 2016, 02:07:22 AM »
'tis a good and just rant.

i'll also add that self-awareness is a very, very important trait.  if you are aware of the possibility of becoming old and stubborn, chances are you won't.  i think you're safe, man.