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Author Topic: Politics and other ailments of the real world  (Read 268242 times)

Offline JMack

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #435 on: February 29, 2016, 07:07:51 PM »
spoiler to save folks who get riled up by ignorant people talking about politics from getting riled up.

Spoiler for Hiden:

myself, however, i find great entertainment in wading through the comment section in places like brietbart.  the stark ridiculousness of some americans is a downright wonder to behold.  i long ago gave up trying to convince strangers from harming themselves by voting against their self interest.  i've moved to "holding their beer while darwinism takes its course".

that being said, OMG!  this is my FAVORITE NEW THING!!
https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/


I think I'd lose my lunch
Change, when it comes, will step lightly before it kicks like thunder. (GRMatthews)
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Offline m3mnoch

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #436 on: February 29, 2016, 07:14:51 PM »
heh.  for sure.  can't blame you.  it's not for the weak of heart or people not as strong in their faith in the majority.

people who shout "we are the silent majority!" -- no.  no, you're not.  you're the exact opposite of both silent AND majority.

Offline JMack

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #437 on: February 29, 2016, 07:45:18 PM »
Meanwhile, I keep wanting to post a few tidbits from Warren Buffett's letter to investors. There are some very interesting quotes from "the Sage of Omaha." Just haven't made the time.

One of the tidbits is his view of global warming. "If there's a 1% chance it's true, we must act, because the consequences are so dire." Which I'm okay with, sort of, because I believe there's problems there. (Understatements r us)

But, Dick Chaney made the same argument. See the book "The One Percent Doctrine." If there's a 1% chance that terrorists can deeply wound our country, we must act as though it is a certainty. Which he then used to justify all manner of things.
Change, when it comes, will step lightly before it kicks like thunder. (GRMatthews)
You are being naive if you think that any sweet and light theme cannot be strangled and force fed it's own flesh. (Nora)
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Offline m3mnoch

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #438 on: February 29, 2016, 08:48:11 PM »
Meanwhile, I keep wanting to post a few tidbits from Warren Buffett's letter to investors. There are some very interesting quotes from "the Sage of Omaha." Just haven't made the time.

One of the tidbits is his view of global warming. "If there's a 1% chance it's true, we must act, because the consequences are so dire." Which I'm okay with, sort of, because I believe there's problems there. (Understatements r us)

But, Dick Chaney made the same argument. See the book "The One Percent Doctrine." If there's a 1% chance that terrorists can deeply wound our country, we must act as though it is a certainty. Which he then used to justify all manner of things.

the difference:

1% trump:  by taking action, the only consequence is that someone else not as bad can take office.

1% terrorists:  by taking action, we give up parts of our freedom.

Offline ultamentkiller

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #439 on: February 29, 2016, 10:25:32 PM »
This is interesting. I'm sure a lot of you have seen it by now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnpO_RTSNmQ
I doubt it'll change any of the Trump supporters minds, if they even click on the video, but still.
As long as the independent guy doesn't win who wants to regulate soda, I'll be alright. :P
Seriously though, I know I'm in the minority on this forum, but Trump VS. Sanders or Clinton doesn't look good from where I sit. We're going to war soon whether we like it or not. I'm just not sure if we'll use overkill and make them hate us even more, or not do enough and get attacked at home. It's going to be one of the two.

Offline Raptori

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #440 on: February 29, 2016, 10:47:07 PM »
This is interesting. I'm sure a lot of you have seen it by now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnpO_RTSNmQ
I doubt it'll change any of the Trump supporters minds, if they even click on the video, but still.
As long as the independent guy doesn't win who wants to regulate soda, I'll be alright. :P
Seriously though, I know I'm in the minority on this forum, but Trump VS. Sanders or Clinton doesn't look good from where I sit. We're going to war soon whether we like it or not. I'm just not sure if we'll use overkill and make them hate us even more, or not do enough and get attacked at home. It's going to be one of the two.

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Offline Rostum

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #441 on: February 29, 2016, 11:44:46 PM »
Quote
But, Dick Chaney made the same argument. See the book "The One Percent Doctrine." If there's a 1% chance that terrorists can deeply wound our country, we must act as though it is a certainty. Which he then used to justify all manner of things.

What about the 99% chance that corporations buying lawmakers will deeply wound your country or doesnt that count?
« Last Edit: February 29, 2016, 11:57:48 PM by Rostum »

Offline tebakutis

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #442 on: March 01, 2016, 02:26:33 PM »
This is interesting. I'm sure a lot of you have seen it by now.

Ha, yup, I tend to catch Jon Oliver's bits a few days after airing, it's nice that HBO is so liberal about posting what is essentially their "premium" content on Youtube. Oliver was always a great part of The Daily Show, but since getting his own show he's done a really good job of breaking down complex topics in ways that are both easy to explain and actually funny (though that's as much a credit to his writing team as anyone).

If you want to be equally angry and amused, watch his videos on predatory Payday loans.

Seriously though, I know I'm in the minority on this forum, but Trump VS. Sanders or Clinton doesn't look good from where I sit. We're going to war soon whether we like it or not. I'm just not sure if we'll use overkill and make them hate us even more, or not do enough and get attacked at home. It's going to be one of the two.

That makes me feel bad every time you say that. :) I don't want you to feel excluded or "in the minority"! I enjoy most of your posts and had fun participating in the F-F RPG with you, as well as talking about other geek stuff. I realize there have been a few assertions you've made that have been corrected my multiple people, but I think that's in the spirit of trying to correct bad info, and not an effort to attack you over politics.

I think the majority of folks on this forum are cool with any number of political stances, ranging from left-wing to right-wing. On most of those, there's absolutely room for healthy debate. Foreign policy, economic policy, drug policy ... these are all topics on which reasonable people can disagree, and there are rational arguments to be made for many viewpoints.

I think what (might) be making you feel like you're in a minority is finding out that you've gotten bad information (or misinformation) about science. The posts I've read from you suggest that you're a decent critical thinker, and the fact that you are open to learning new things (and accept that you don't know it all) puts you ahead of many people on both sides of many arguments. But if I can paraphrase a quote from Mr. Degrasse Tyson, "science remains true whether you believe in it or not."

When we were talking about climate change earlier, you mentioned that "you aren't convinced" ... and anti-science statements like that are hard to argue, as you can't really debate settled scientific facts. There simply isn't anything to debate. It's like trying to make the case that gravity doesn't exist. There's no point.

The fact that you've gotten bad information about issues like climate change isn't your fault, nor is it something that should make you feel excluded or looked down upon. All anyone has to work with is the facts they've been presented with. But, now that you have some new facts to examine and absorb, there's nothing stopping you from doing research on your own and learning more about the reality of man-made climate change and why we have to start taking steps to mitigate it, even now.

If I had to point to one problem in the United States, specifically, that I wish we could eliminate, it would be the "politicizing" of scientific facts. For example, our military (including the Pentagon) is aware that climate change is occurring and is going to be a factor in our national security (as mentioned by Bernie Sanders, last time we discussed this).

http://www.defenseone.com/ideas/2014/05/debate-goes-military-prepares-climate-change/83968/
Note: This is one sample of dozens of posts confirming this is the case. Google "navy asks to prepare for climate change" for more.

Yet despite the military's acceptance of climate change (funny bit of trivia - the Navy, knowing there are anti-science politicians in Congress, was even careful not to say WHY it was occurring in hopes of circumventing the science-deniers!) is not enough for some people. The Republican controlled House of Representatives actually forbid the Pentagon from preparing for climate change due to willful ignorance and science denial.

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2014/05/23/House-bans-Pentagon-from-preparing-for-climate-change/5391400882186/
Note: Again, this is just one source. Google "house forbids military from preparing for climate change" for a number of supporting sources.

This is a problem, and some of the people who forbid the military from preparing for climate change are influencing the same people who've been telling you it's a hoax. The debate in America should be "How do we slow and eventually stop climate change?" I'm sure both right-wing and left-wing folks would have plenty of ideas on that, and there's a healthy debate to be had about what we should do. But instead, certain groups on the right, supported by oil interests, have made the debate "Does climate change exist?" because it prevents them from actually having to debate what to do about it.

You've mentioned a couple of conspiracy theories in the past, but "climate change" being a hoax is a stretch even by conspiracy standards. Basically, if you are correct (and climate change is a hoax), it is a hoax perpetrated by 97% of the world's scientific community, 50% of people in the United States (about), and basically every other developed country in the world, designed to fool 50% of the American population.

So to restate - half the US and the entire world have teamed up to "punk" 50% of the United States.

The alternative, of course, is that 50% of the United States has been willfully mislead by interests who would lose profits if we accept that climate change is occurring, and that the other 50% of the US (and the rest of the entire world, and 97% of scientists) is correct that climate change is occurring. Oh, and that 3% of scientists who say "we aren't sure?" The majority are funded by oil companies.

There's nothing shameful or wrong about getting bad or incomplete information about a topic. But once you have all the facts, it's up to you to decide which case you believe is more likely. And I think once you start examining the misinformation you've been given and re-examine what you've been told about science, you'll find that you are much less "in the minority" on these forums than you think. :)

EDIT: Here's a bonus link regarding science denial, just in case you weren't disheartened enough.

Employees in Florida are currently trying to prepare for climate change while being forbidden by their Republican governor from using the words "climate change".

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/USA-Update/2015/0309/Can-Florida-prepare-for-climate-change-without-saying-the-words-video
« Last Edit: March 01, 2016, 02:55:11 PM by tebakutis »

Offline CryptofCthulhu

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #443 on: March 01, 2016, 02:26:58 PM »
Democrats and Republicans arguing with each other is the political equivalent of the Special Olympics.
“Silence is only frightening to people who are compulsively verbalizing.” ~ William S. Boroughs

Offline m3mnoch

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #444 on: March 01, 2016, 03:53:26 PM »
oh, look!  i have more trump fun this morning!

a tweet storm waxing philosophical on the rise of the trumpinator:
https://storify.com/crofer/hilzoy-how-the-republicans-got-donald-trump

Offline JMack

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #445 on: March 02, 2016, 11:54:08 AM »
Time to beat up on some other country than Merca.  ;)

http://www.dw.com/en/study-german-wage-gap-between-men-and-women-among-europes-biggest/a-19086382

WOMEN
Study: German wage gap between men and women among Europe's biggest
German women earn on average 21.6 percent less than men, according to government data. Only two countries in Europe recorded wage gaps between women and men that are higher than Germany's.

[shhh]U.S. Wage gap is 23%[shh]
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Offline Rostum

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #446 on: March 02, 2016, 12:37:35 PM »
Quote
Time to beat up on some other country than Merca.  ;)

http://www.dw.com/en/study-german-wage-gap-between-men-and-women-among-europes-biggest/a-19086382

WOMEN
Study: German wage gap between men and women among Europe's biggest
German women earn on average 21.6 percent less than men, according to government data. Only two countries in Europe recorded wage gaps between women and men that are higher than Germany's.

Ok the opportunities not to be in work while being paid are somwhat higher than in the USA for starters but this non article is little more than reporting that the left wrote a report to attack the centre right government. It has not compared like for like and has not taken working patterns into account.

German workers get a better deal than UK ones but here women have a working life 5 years less than men despite a longer average lifespan. Contribute below 35% of National Insurance yields, yet more money is spent on both healthcare (with good reson) and pension payments.

In the UK women under 40 have a higher disposable income than men and women over 40 have a much higher disposable income than men. I would question the validity of pay gap equality it is a popular straw man person.

In my working life I have never come across any evidence that I was paid more for doing the same work as a woman. Yet despite being illegal here it is raised to the point of a mantra that must be believed despite the stunning lack of evidence to support it. Usually now the arguement is framed in terms of women cannot break through the glass ceiling, well nor can most men.

Offline ScarletBea

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #447 on: March 02, 2016, 12:39:38 PM »
Yes, it says that if they count part-time work, the gap is 'only' 7%.

I've also never encountered this in my working life, but it might be because I've always worked for multinational companies who tend to be more open and straight-forward in their pay schemes than little companies, where potentially that can happen.
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Offline CryptofCthulhu

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #448 on: March 02, 2016, 12:46:16 PM »
Time to beat up on some other country than Merca.  ;)

http://www.dw.com/en/study-german-wage-gap-between-men-and-women-among-europes-biggest/a-19086382

WOMEN
Study: German wage gap between men and women among Europe's biggest
German women earn on average 21.6 percent less than men, according to government data. Only two countries in Europe recorded wage gaps between women and men that are higher than Germany's.

[shhh]U.S. Wage gap is 23%[shh]

Allow a sane feminist to educate you on this wage gap nonsense. It's been so thoroughly debunked that I don't understand why progressives regressives continue to harp on it. Maybe it's just willful ignorance.

[youtube]58arQIr882w[/youtube]
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Offline m3mnoch

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #449 on: March 02, 2016, 04:12:00 PM »
OMG!!!

[youtube]v75wCTMZoSY[/youtube]