October 16, 2019, 01:20:00 PM

Author Topic: Politics and other ailments of the real world  (Read 267973 times)

Online Henry Dale

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #75 on: October 06, 2015, 12:19:13 PM »
Or we do something sensible and don't give guns to people in the first place. You don't need them for anything anyway.
Does not compute. Surely an arms race is the most sensible thing imaginable.

throws yarn

Instead of giving people guns, we'll give them cats  :)

Offline Raptori

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #76 on: October 06, 2015, 12:28:56 PM »
Or we do something sensible and don't give guns to people in the first place. You don't need them for anything anyway.
Does not compute. Surely an arms race is the most sensible thing imaginable.

throws yarn

Instead of giving people guns, we'll give them cats  :)
Okay, now that is a plan I can get behind.
I wish the world was flat like the old days, then I could travel just by folding a map.

Offline Arry

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #77 on: October 06, 2015, 12:41:43 PM »
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Offline JMack

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Offline Rostum

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #79 on: October 06, 2015, 01:59:30 PM »
Please someone tell me how it can be acceptable that an 11 year old has access to a loaded shotgun or both a gun and ammunition? This is simple negligence on the part of the owner. I look forward to them being held accountable.

 In the UK you can actually hold a shotgun licence at 11 but it is illegal to be in the presence of ammunition of a gun unsupervised under the age of 18 (there are a lot of other conditions to be met about how it can be transported and where it can be used as well).

Offline m3mnoch

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #80 on: October 06, 2015, 02:21:39 PM »
Please someone tell me how it can be acceptable that an 11 year old has access to a loaded shotgun or both a gun and ammunition? This is simple negligence on the part of the owner. I look forward to them being held accountable.

 In the UK you can actually hold a shotgun licence at 11 but it is illegal to be in the presence of ammunition of a gun unsupervised under the age of 18 (there are a lot of other conditions to be met about how it can be transported and where it can be used as well).

to be honest, that's the battle pro-gun liberals like me (yeah, it's a thing) constantly fight.  the 'gun control' legislation isn't about taking people's guns.  it's about background checks, licenses, tests and training.  making sure gun owners properly understand weapon safety and responsibility.

it's stuff people agree with overwhelmingly.
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/211321-poll-most-gun-owners-support-universal-background-checks

the problem is that the money-politics agenda likes to frame it as "THEY GONNA TAKE YO' GUNS!  FIGHT BACK!".  nobody actually reads the proposed laws, which of course, are filled with stuff 92% of gun owners agree with.

it's stupid.

Offline Hedin

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #81 on: October 06, 2015, 02:44:43 PM »
Please someone tell me how it can be acceptable that an 11 year old has access to a loaded shotgun or both a gun and ammunition? This is simple negligence on the part of the owner. I look forward to them being held accountable.

 In the UK you can actually hold a shotgun licence at 11 but it is illegal to be in the presence of ammunition of a gun unsupervised under the age of 18 (there are a lot of other conditions to be met about how it can be transported and where it can be used as well).

to be honest, that's the battle pro-gun liberals like me (yeah, it's a thing) constantly fight.  the 'gun control' legislation isn't about taking people's guns.  it's about background checks, licenses, tests and training.  making sure gun owners properly understand weapon safety and responsibility.

it's stuff people agree with overwhelmingly.
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/211321-poll-most-gun-owners-support-universal-background-checks

the problem is that the money-politics agenda likes to frame it as "THEY GONNA TAKE YO' GUNS!  FIGHT BACK!".  nobody actually reads the proposed laws, which of course, are filled with stuff 92% of gun owners agree with.

it's stupid.

I used to be like you in thinking that background checks, licenses, gun registrations, etc would solve the problem but it won't.  At best is those are really just the first steps to something more comprehensive.  The NY Times published something a few days ago about the last 14 mass shootings and all of them passed background checks (it sounds like two of them should have been rejected): http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/10/03/us/how-mass-shooters-got-their-guns.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0

The only way to stop gun violence is to take away all of the guns.

Offline Rostum

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #82 on: October 06, 2015, 03:01:53 PM »
Not answering the question.

If you are licensed to keep a gun fine. The moment someone else can place a hand on that gun whether they are licensed or not you should lose that right.
A child should not be able to access a loaded firearm unless they are under the constant supervision of a licenced adult. FFS they are not toys and the casual attitude Americans seem to have is because you have the right but have a huge industry supported lobby is there to mitigate the responsibilities.
This is not civilised and the loss of children to gunshot should not be a cost against the 2nd amendment.

http://gunwars.news21.com/2014/at-least-28000-children-and-teens-were-killed-by-guns-over-an-11-year-period/

Offline Hedin

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #83 on: October 06, 2015, 03:27:45 PM »
Here is what I would like to see done even though like I said above I don't think it would change much:

1) Comprehensive background checks for all gun purchases whether you buy a gun from a store, gun show, or an individual.  If you're buying a gun from me we both go down to the local gun store and they charge a fee to process the check.   
2) All guns are registered to their buyer just like we do for cars.  If a gun that you own is found to be used in a crime, even if the owner was not present they would be charged with a felony. 
3) All gun owners must receive a license and to obtain that license you have to successfully pass a gun safety course.  Licenses can be renewed every few years and if you don't have a license having a gun in your possession would be a misdemeanor.  Again, this is just like we handle driver's licenses.
4) No open or concealed carry unless you are a member of the police.
5) All guns should be stored at home in a gun safe or have safety locks placed on them.  If you are found to not have these items your guns would be confiscated and you would be charged with a misdemeanor.  If an incident like Rostum mentions where a minor is able to access your gun then it would be a felony.
6) Institute a buyback program for anyone who doesn't want their guns anymore (either give them cash or a tax credit).
7) Charge a heavy tax on guns and ammo.  If you want a weapon it's going to be expensive.
8) Ban assault rifles.  I've shot an AR before and its fun, I do not see the need for anyone to own one. 


Offline m3mnoch

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #84 on: October 06, 2015, 03:28:30 PM »
The only way to stop gun violence is to take away all of the guns.

indeed.  however, that's not practical, nor enforceable, and won't happen.  i prefer a solution that's within the realm of possibility instead of random hope or impotent rage.


If you are licensed to keep a gun fine. The moment someone else can place a hand on that gun whether they are licensed or not you should lose that right.
A child should not be able to access a loaded firearm unless they are under the constant supervision of a licenced adult. FFS they are not toys and the casual attitude Americans seem to have is because you have the right but have a huge industry supported lobby is there to mitigate the responsibilities.
This is not civilised and the loss of children to gunshot should not be a cost against the 2nd amendment.

completely agree.  hence the need for laws, licenses, and training.  you can't drive a car without all the proper training and law enforcement, why are guns different?  they're not.


http://gunwars.news21.com/2014/at-least-28000-children-and-teens-were-killed-by-guns-over-an-11-year-period/

also, to put that in perspective, there are more preschoolers killed by gunfire each year than police shot in the line of duty.

Offline m3mnoch

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #85 on: October 06, 2015, 04:03:39 PM »
in other news, fox news tells us americans that you aussies have no freedom.
http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/oct/06/australia-has-no-freedom-fox-news-host-claims-in-discussion-on-gun-laws

man.  it must suck to live in a 1st world country and not have any freedom.


oh, also, it looks like the world is ending on wednesday.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/06/end-of-world-7-october-ebible-fellowship

i wonder what timezone that refers to.


whew...  busy week.

Offline JMack

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #86 on: October 06, 2015, 04:59:44 PM »

oh, also, it looks like the world is ending on wednesday.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/06/end-of-world-7-october-ebible-fellowship


At first I thought that said "october-edible-fellowship".
That was really interesting.
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Offline Raptori

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #87 on: October 06, 2015, 05:33:47 PM »

oh, also, it looks like the world is ending on wednesday.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/06/end-of-world-7-october-ebible-fellowship


At first I thought that said "october-edible-fellowship".
That was really interesting.
You only thought that because you expected some kind of edible merchandise for the Fellowship of the Ring.
I wish the world was flat like the old days, then I could travel just by folding a map.

Offline JMack

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #88 on: October 06, 2015, 05:59:18 PM »

oh, also, it looks like the world is ending on wednesday.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/06/end-of-world-7-october-ebible-fellowship


At first I thought that said "october-edible-fellowship".
That was really interesting.
You only thought that because you expected some kind of edible merchandise for the Fellowship of the Ring.

Elven Waybread - vegan, non-gmo, organic, but not very great on flavor I'm afraid
Change, when it comes, will step lightly before it kicks like thunder. (GRMatthews)
You are being naive if you think that any sweet and light theme cannot be strangled and force fed it's own flesh. (Nora)
www.starlit-lands.com

Offline Raptori

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #89 on: October 06, 2015, 06:01:41 PM »

oh, also, it looks like the world is ending on wednesday.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/06/end-of-world-7-october-ebible-fellowship


At first I thought that said "october-edible-fellowship".
That was really interesting.
You only thought that because you expected some kind of edible merchandise for the Fellowship of the Ring.

Elven Waybread - vegan, non-gmo, organic, but not very great on flavor I'm afraid
'Sall good, I'll put some lettuce and some vegan salami on it and I'll be good to go.  8)
I wish the world was flat like the old days, then I could travel just by folding a map.