October 17, 2019, 04:43:58 PM

Author Topic: Politics and other ailments of the real world  (Read 268218 times)

Offline Doctor_Chill

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #45 on: October 02, 2015, 12:13:46 AM »
Oh, but if all the students went armed, this would never happen.  :P






Instead, we'd have inter-class/clique warfare and frat houses would become armed camps. Oh goody.

Concealed carry just went into affect today on Texas public  colleges.
“It’s a dangerous thing, pretense. A man ought to know who he is, even if he isn’t proud to be it.” - Tomorrow the Killing, Daniel Polansky

Offline Hedin

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #46 on: October 02, 2015, 12:21:50 AM »
Oh, but if all the students went armed, this would never happen.  :P






Instead, we'd have inter-class/clique warfare and frat houses would become armed camps. Oh goody.

Concealed carry just went into affect today on Texas public  colleges.

I just don't understand the need for concealed carry (let alone open carry).   Earlier this summer I saw a guy carrying at the park I took my daughter to and left immediately after I saw it.   What kind of person needs to bring a gun to a children's park?   Does an ordinary person really have that many enemies?

Offline Doctor_Chill

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #47 on: October 02, 2015, 12:43:01 AM »
Oh, but if all the students went armed, this would never happen.  :P






Instead, we'd have inter-class/clique warfare and frat houses would become armed camps. Oh goody.

Concealed carry just went into affect today on Texas public  colleges.

I just don't understand the need for concealed carry (let alone open carry).   Earlier this summer I saw a guy carrying at the park I took my daughter to and left immediately after I saw it.   What kind of person needs to bring a gun to a children's park?   Does an ordinary person really have that many enemies?

I would rather have a gun and not need it then need it and not have it.
“It’s a dangerous thing, pretense. A man ought to know who he is, even if he isn’t proud to be it.” - Tomorrow the Killing, Daniel Polansky

Offline Hedin

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #48 on: October 02, 2015, 12:57:29 AM »
Oh, but if all the students went armed, this would never happen.  :P






Instead, we'd have inter-class/clique warfare and frat houses would become armed camps. Oh goody.

Concealed carry just went into affect today on Texas public  colleges.

I just don't understand the need for concealed carry (let alone open carry).   Earlier this summer I saw a guy carrying at the park I took my daughter to and left immediately after I saw it.   What kind of person needs to bring a gun to a children's park?   Does an ordinary person really have that many enemies?

I would rather have a gun and not need it then need it and not have it.

Have you or anyone else you know ever been in a situation like that?  I sure haven't and no one I know has either.   Even then you're betting that an untrained person is calm, cool, and collected enough to be able to hit the target rather than an innocent bystander.   You're also hoping that the gunman doesn't see you drawing and get you before you even have a chance to get off a shot.

Offline Hedin

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #49 on: October 02, 2015, 01:01:47 AM »
Oh, but if all the students went armed, this would never happen.  :P






Instead, we'd have inter-class/clique warfare and frat houses would become armed camps. Oh goody.

Concealed carry just went into affect today on Texas public  colleges.

I just don't understand the need for concealed carry (let alone open carry).   Earlier this summer I saw a guy carrying at the park I took my daughter to and left immediately after I saw it.   What kind of person needs to bring a gun to a children's park?   Does an ordinary person really have that many enemies?

I would rather have a gun and not need it then need it and not have it.


Even with home protection are you really going to wake up, realize it's an intruder and not your kid/significant other wandering around, get the key to your gun safe, and get your gun out in any amount of time that would make a difference?   

Offline night_wrtr

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #50 on: October 02, 2015, 01:23:51 AM »
Oh, but if all the students went armed, this would never happen.  :P






Instead, we'd have inter-class/clique warfare and frat houses would become armed camps. Oh goody.

Concealed carry just went into affect today on Texas public  colleges.

I just don't understand the need for concealed carry (let alone open carry).   Earlier this summer I saw a guy carrying at the park I took my daughter to and left immediately after I saw it.   What kind of person needs to bring a gun to a children's park?   Does an ordinary person really have that many enemies?

I would rather have a gun and not need it then need it and not have it.


Even with home protection are you really going to wake up, realize it's an intruder and not your kid/significant other wandering around, get the key to your gun safe, and get your gun out in any amount of time that would make a difference?   

I would say yes. I keep a gun in the house for protection. I live in a rural area and have had my home broken into before.

I would rather have the ability to protect my family instead of having no chance to defend them. Just like Chill said. I'd rather have it than not.

Offline night_wrtr

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #51 on: October 02, 2015, 01:28:00 AM »
Oh, but if all the students went armed, this would never happen.  :P






Instead, we'd have inter-class/clique warfare and frat houses would become armed camps. Oh goody.

Concealed carry just went into affect today on Texas public  colleges.

I just don't understand the need for concealed carry (let alone open carry).   Earlier this summer I saw a guy carrying at the park I took my daughter to and left immediately after I saw it.   What kind of person needs to bring a gun to a children's park?   Does an ordinary person really have that many enemies?

I would rather have a gun and not need it then need it and not have it.

Have you or anyone else you know ever been in a situation like that?  I sure haven't and no one I know has either.   Even then you're betting that an untrained person is calm, cool, and collected enough to be able to hit the target rather than an innocent bystander.   You're also hoping that the gunman doesn't see you drawing and get you before you even have a chance to get off a shot.

I don't think the default of a concealed carrier would be untrained. If anything I would think it is the other way around. Most gun owners I know frequent the shooting range.

Offline Hedin

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #52 on: October 02, 2015, 01:53:28 AM »
Oh, but if all the students went armed, this would never happen.  :P






Instead, we'd have inter-class/clique warfare and frat houses would become armed camps. Oh goody.

Concealed carry just went into affect today on Texas public  colleges.

I just don't understand the need for concealed carry (let alone open carry).   Earlier this summer I saw a guy carrying at the park I took my daughter to and left immediately after I saw it.   What kind of person needs to bring a gun to a children's park?   Does an ordinary person really have that many enemies?

I would rather have a gun and not need it then need it and not have it.

Have you or anyone else you know ever been in a situation like that?  I sure haven't and no one I know has either.   Even then you're betting that an untrained person is calm, cool, and collected enough to be able to hit the target rather than an innocent bystander.   You're also hoping that the gunman doesn't see you drawing and get you before you even have a chance to get off a shot.

I don't think the default of a concealed carrier would be untrained. If anything I would think it is the other way around. Most gun owners I know frequent the shooting range.

Totally not talking about how to use a gun (although my guess is that default is that more people have not used their weapons, most of the owners I know have not even taken them to a shooting range).  I'm talking about using it in an active shooter situation and really only police officers or members of the military are trained for those type of situations.  Even then you see reports on how many shots trained officers miss in those types of situations. 

When your house was broken into were you home and did you have enough awareness to do something about it if you were armed?

Offline night_wrtr

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #53 on: October 02, 2015, 02:16:05 AM »


When your house was broken into were you home and did you have enough awareness to do something about it if you were armed?

I wasn't home, but the door was busted open. If I had, I don't know where I would have been at the time. If I were sleeping, let's say, I would hear the door busted as it was, plus I have an alarm if a door or window were opened. I would know enough that whoever it was didn't belong in my house.

« Last Edit: June 15, 2017, 02:55:17 PM by night_wrtr »

Offline Hedin

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #54 on: October 02, 2015, 02:28:30 AM »
What is it with this forum and goats?

I have known a few other people who have been broken into but none were home at the time.  I'm too lazy to spend time looking it up but I would really like to know what the ratio of break-ins while people are home compared to when they are away, I bet it's heavily weighed to the not home side.

Offline night_wrtr

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #55 on: October 02, 2015, 02:34:15 AM »
What is it with this forum and goats?
Love the rural life  8)

Quote
I have known a few other people who have been broken into but none were home at the time.  I'm too lazy to spend time looking it up but I would really like to know what the ratio of break-ins while people are home compared to when they are away, I bet it's heavily weighed to the not home side.

Probably so. I would also think most burglaries happen during the day when the odds say the homeowner is at work.

Offline Rostum

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #56 on: October 02, 2015, 08:25:08 AM »
We don't do guns in the UK and it is a damn sight easier to lose a license than it is to get one here.
Someone not on the ticket knowing where the keys to the gun box are kept is grounds for that to happen.
On saying that I have been lucky enough to shoot target pistols, rifles, muskets and shotgun as well as replica cannon.
Most of what I shot was very old and designed for hunting or very old and ex-military.
I was largely taught by people who professionally taught their use and put lots of rounds downrange every day. So I know a little.

I could never understand how Americans with mental health issues were allowed to keep the right to own guns with no controls in place. Or that anybody can own a firearm without proving they are proficient at maintaining, carrying and above all the safety aspects of being in a space with other people. The chances of someone carrying being able to assess the situation ready and fire a gun, hitting what they are aiming for without causing injury to others is slight to non-existent. Unless they practise incessantly both drawing and shooting for that situation. Put hundreds of rounds downrange every week. The police don't do this for the most part, nor do the army.

I have an uncle on leaving the British army retrained as a doctor and emigrated to America. He was a surgeon in Huntsville. He said years ago that the gunshot injuries he saw were largely self-inflicted or inflicted with a gun owned by that household. Often one family member shooting another when they heard a noise at night or occasionally taken off the owner who was not prepared to use it against another human being when it came to the crunch.

Offline Arry

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #57 on: October 02, 2015, 02:11:47 PM »
I know I won't sway any strong pro-gun people, so I'll save my breath/key-strokes. I don't come here to debate politics, but I can't resist posting something, so here's some fact checking and statistics:

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/01/pro-gun-myths-fact-check
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Offline ClintACK

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #58 on: October 02, 2015, 04:21:17 PM »
I know I won't sway any strong pro-gun people, so I'll save my breath/key-strokes. I don't come here to debate politics, but I can't resist posting something, so here's some fact checking and statistics:

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/01/pro-gun-myths-fact-check

Quick-draw response to: "Myth #4: More good guys with guns can stop rampaging bad guys.
Fact-check: Mass shootings stopped by armed civilians in the past 30 years: 0"

That's just false.

Obviously, it's hard to know what would have happened in a counterfactual, but it's easy to find many examples where someone opens fire in a crowd and is stopped by a concealed-carry civilian.  Sometimes a few people are killed before the bad guy is stopped -- so you could argue it was still a mass shooting.  Sometimes no one is killed before the bad guy is stopped -- so you could argue that he wouldn't really have hurt anyone.  Sometimes he's stopped shooting (to reload?  to pick a new target area?) and you could argue that he was already done.  I'm sure the fine folks at Mother Jones would wave away all of the examples I could come up with.  But google "mass shooting stopped by concealed carry holder"...

Following the Mother Jones link (The "0" is hypertext.) -- I can see they actually list quite a few, and use exactly the excuses I anticipated.  Mostly the "no proof anyone else would have been shot" line of reasoning.  But they have another particularly bizarre one -- that in most cases, the armed civilian was well-trained (ex-cop, marine, security guard...).

Well, Yes, Duh.  That's the whole point.  The Fort Hood shooting was on an army base -- all the victims were trained soldiers, but the law required them to be unarmed on base, so they were sitting ducks for the one guy who wasn't following the law.  If there were soldiers or veterans or off-duty police officers in the movie theater in Colorado they couldn't legally bring their weapons into the theater.  Could they have shortened the massacre and reduced the casualties?  I doubt I can convince you, or anyone at Mother Jones, but I think these hypothetical well-trained CCW-holders probably could have -- as they have in many real cases.

There are 20 million veterans in the U.S., another million active-duty service members, another million police officers, and about as many retired cops.  That's before we get into well-trained civilians, national guard members, and professional security guards.  That's at least 10% of the population.  I like those odds of having someone trained nearby if I'm ever unlucky enough to be in a crowded area when a crazy person shows up intent on murder.  I'd just like that trained someone to be allowed to carry a gun.

I'm all in favor of mandatory training and periodic proficiency testing for gun licensees -- and I think it's a national disgrace that we're handing out licenses to people who have been diagnosed with severe mental illnesses.  (Note that right now, this is bureaucratic incompetence, not a political disagreement -- see the Washington Navy Yard shooter.)  Heck, I don't own a gun, have no interest in owning one, and no relevant training or experience (Well... I have had a gun pointed at me, but that's an entirely different story).  But a blanket ban on guns, whether local or global, just ensures that only the wrong people have guns when the shooting starts.

Anyway... apologies for the long screed.

Now back to trying to figure out how the heck my protagonists are going to get themselves out of the mess they've gotten themselves into I've thrown them into... with no guns anywhere in sight.

Edited to add: http://www.bookwormroom.com/2015/10/01/five-reasons-that-the-benefits-that-flow-from-guns-far-outweigh-the-risks-inherent-in-guns/  just because I can't help myself.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2015, 04:46:00 PM by ClintACK »

Offline xiagan

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #59 on: October 02, 2015, 05:05:11 PM »


But a blanket ban on guns, whether local or global, just ensures that only the wrong people have guns when the shooting starts.
But that's the point. Nowhere else in the world starts the shooting as often and as deadly as in the United States of Trigger Happiness...



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