December 09, 2019, 11:24:24 AM

Author Topic: Politics and other ailments of the real world  (Read 287246 times)

Online JMack

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #30 on: September 23, 2015, 10:09:59 PM »
@Rostum, you should really be clearer about your POV.  :D ;D ;D

At some point, I'll muster an argument for some fragment of American exceptionalism. But for the moment, I've had two hard ciders - which is quite enough for me, thank you. I feel like maybe I'm on track with my story (which may be the alcholhol talking thank you very much). And I have a baseball game to stumble wander over to.

[politics] for later   ;) [/politicfs]

If you're going to watch the Orioles you may need to have several more hard ciders.

Ohhhhh that is so true.





My face is numb.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2015, 10:12:05 PM by Jmack »
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Offline Doctor_Chill

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #31 on: September 24, 2015, 03:34:12 AM »
I'm not sure I agree with America being a wealthy 3rd world country, but I guess since this is a politics thread I'll make the two most obvious arguments against Rostum's points.

A justice system that says you are innocent until proven bankrupt

Um, the 6th Amendment gives the right to a public defender. While it is based on income proof such as credit documents, a good number of judges will go on your word alone. Of course, this primarily affects criminal court. Civil court is another matter, but the fees inherent there aren't astronomical and even then, you should never go into a civil suit unless you're 100% certain you can win.

Which for anybody who's watched an episode of Judge Judy, shows that's not hard at all.

A paramilitary police force seizing assets from the public without just causehttp://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/investigative/2014/09/06/stop-and-seize/

When I opened that article, I fully expected to hear about the town over cited and their police corruption charges.  ;D But the big problem with search and seizures is not with the police (though as stated, police corruption is still a variable) but the citizen. Unless an officer has probable cause (and a routine traffic stop like speeding or busted tail-light is not probable cause, where all those instances are cited), under the 4th Amendment the officer cannot search your vehicle without your consent. Even then, if they do so without your wish, the defense attorney can have the evidence thrown out in court (and the evidence is needed in court before it can be outsourced to departments).
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Offline Justan Henner

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #32 on: September 24, 2015, 04:01:26 AM »
Whoa, hold on there, Chill. Those look like facts. They don't belong in a thread about politics.

Offline Doctor_Chill

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #33 on: September 24, 2015, 04:29:48 AM »
Whoa, hold on there, Chill. Those look like facts. They don't belong in a thread about politics.

Sorry. Whenever I see people dissing our judicial system I go into that mode.

This is why I can't use the [politics] tag lol.
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Offline Hedin

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #34 on: September 24, 2015, 02:00:06 PM »


You live in a country which holds it's population hostage through healthcare.

I don't think I have ever read a more accurate statement.

I don't think it's that accurate.  Yes, medical bills are a hardship for a lot of people but the vast majority of the population has good enough insurance that mitigates a lot of the out of the pocket cost.  For example, my insurance plan will pay 90% of all my medical bills up and when my 10% adds up to $5,000 they pay 100%.  Yes $5,000 is a big chunk of money and I know some people would have some trouble paying for that but I don't feel like you're being held hostage.  I could go into whole thing about our healthcare/pharma system (my job is bascially pharma support) but the cliff notes version is that it could be better but it's not as bad as it seems.

Now if you want to talk about held financially hostage we can talk about student loan debt....

Offline Rostum

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #35 on: September 24, 2015, 02:07:17 PM »
So Johnnie Cochran or a public appointed lawyer hmm let me think. you are right it is more applicable to the litigation industry built up around the answer is always to litigate than criminal law. They are destroying the right to legal aid in the UK at the moment and in effect putting justice out of reach, not of the poor but of those who have something to lose.
The issue with seizure is the onus is on the person losing their property to prove it is not the proceeds of crime and not on the police etc. to prove that it is. This is a direct rebuttal of innocent until proven guilty and the reason criminal charges are not filed at the same time is the utter lack of evidence to make a case.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2015, 02:11:20 PM by Rostum »

Offline night_wrtr

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #36 on: September 24, 2015, 02:37:04 PM »


You live in a country which holds it's population hostage through healthcare.

I don't think I have ever read a more accurate statement.

I don't think it's that accurate.  Yes, medical bills are a hardship for a lot of people but the vast majority of the population has good enough insurance that mitigates a lot of the out of the pocket cost.  For example, my insurance plan will pay 90% of all my medical bills up and when my 10% adds up to $5,000 they pay 100%.  Yes $5,000 is a big chunk of money and I know some people would have some trouble paying for that but I don't feel like you're being held hostage.  I could go into whole thing about our healthcare/pharma system (my job is bascially pharma support) but the cliff notes version is that it could be better but it's not as bad as it seems.

Now if you want to talk about held financially hostage we can talk about student loan debt....

Yes a thousand times for student loan debt. I'll be paying those the rest of my life.

Back to healthcare for a moment. I end up paying 16% of every check to my health plan. My wife is on my plan through my employer also. I have to pay a $50 fee just for her being on my plan, not including the price increase for adding her in the first place.

We need a better system in my opinion.  I'm getting robbed.

Offline Rostum

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #37 on: September 24, 2015, 03:08:53 PM »
By comparison I pay 10% of my income for my healthcare and pension as national insurance on everything after £155 p/w earned. My employer pays about 12% of what I earn as their contribution.  I actually have BUPA private medical insurance as well. This covers me and my daughter. I have never needed them , but pay additional tax on this as it is provided as a perk by my employer so cost me £57 last year.

Offline Hedin

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #38 on: September 24, 2015, 03:45:31 PM »
By comparison I pay 10% of my income for my healthcare and pension as national insurance on everything after £155 p/w earned. My employer pays about 12% of what I earn as their contribution.  I actually have BUPA private medical insurance as well. This covers me and my daughter. I have never needed them , but pay additional tax on this as it is provided as a perk by my employer so cost me £57 last year.

If we're doing pre-tax my healthcare costs me about 6% of my bi-weekly paycheck and that covers myself and my whole family. Obviously for that income level matters a whole lot, if I was making $10,000 a year less I would certainly be affected a lot more.

Offline Rostum

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #39 on: September 24, 2015, 05:39:10 PM »
http://rollingjubilee.org/ This is an interesting idea but I am sure it will be accused of being Un-American.

Online JMack

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #40 on: September 24, 2015, 06:19:18 PM »
http://rollingjubilee.org/ This is an interesting idea but I am sure it will be accused of being Un-American.

That's really interesting.

I love micro-lending and other initiatives that put lending and borrowing in the hands of everyday people.
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Offline Rostum

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #41 on: September 24, 2015, 07:44:53 PM »
I had heard of rolling jubilee a while back and fell over them looking for something relating to the American student loans system. They buy up Student bad debt at cents in the dollar and write it off. Sadly this is not going to give people their credit rating back as usually someone with bad debt has lots of bad debt but it is a finger held up to the system.

Worth supporting?

Offline Hedin

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #42 on: October 01, 2015, 08:05:46 PM »
Oh hey, another mass shooting!  I love how this country freaked out and changed airport security screening due to failed shoe and underwear bombs but refuses to do anything about the repeated mass shootings that keep happening.

Sigh

Offline night_wrtr

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #43 on: October 01, 2015, 08:59:31 PM »
Oh hey, another mass shooting!  I love how this country freaked out and changed airport security screening due to failed shoe and underwear bombs but refuses to do anything about the repeated mass shootings that keep happening.

Sigh

This is the kind of $#(% that pisses me off. They won't stop either. Let's talk about it on the news all day, interview some politicians about gun laws, then forget about it tomorrow until the next one happens.

Online JMack

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #44 on: October 01, 2015, 09:43:58 PM »
Oh, but if all the students went armed, this would never happen.  :P






Instead, we'd have inter-class/clique warfare and frat houses would become armed camps. Oh goody.
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