April 10, 2020, 01:04:04 AM

Author Topic: Politics and other ailments of the real world  (Read 316189 times)

Offline isos81

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #3225 on: August 05, 2019, 01:49:36 PM »
Because in the first world you may aspire to greater things but fewer achieve any social mobility throughout their lifetime. If you are born in poverty you will likely die in poverty. If you get a decent job work hard all your life a modest retirement may be possible but is not gauranteed.

I offered a very poor person a job, he refused. His wife was beggar, they lived in a ruin. I guess it was because they were so used to their poor life, a decent life scared them.
Kallor shrugged. 'I've walked this land when the T'lan Imass were but children. I've commanded armies a hundred thousand strong. I've spread the fire of my wrath across entire continents, and sat alone upon tall thrones. Do you grasp the meaning of this?'

'Yes' said Caladan Brood. 'You never learn'

Offline Magnus Hedén

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #3226 on: August 05, 2019, 03:32:58 PM »
I offered a very poor person a job, he refused. His wife was beggar, they lived in a ruin. I guess it was because they were so used to their poor life, a decent life scared them.

There could also have been a thousand other reasons. Your guess says more about you than it does about them, if you ask me.
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Offline isos81

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #3227 on: August 05, 2019, 09:07:46 PM »
I offered a very poor person a job, he refused. His wife was beggar, they lived in a ruin. I guess it was because they were so used to their poor life, a decent life scared them.

There could also have been a thousand other reasons. Your guess says more about you than it does about them, if you ask me.

Can you please tell me some? I thought about it a lot and this was the most sensible explanation.

They lived in a ruin (literally) and had two kids. Older one was barefoot. The other was a baby.
The husband was collecting paper from the garbage to sell. He had no permanent job.
The mother was begging with her two children when my wife met them.

I offered them a house to stay and a permanent job. They refused. The husband did not even bother to come and speak to me about the new opportunity. He simply ignored me.

Of course there could be other reasons. But mine made sense. I also asked other people about them and their motivations. They backed me up, too.
Kallor shrugged. 'I've walked this land when the T'lan Imass were but children. I've commanded armies a hundred thousand strong. I've spread the fire of my wrath across entire continents, and sat alone upon tall thrones. Do you grasp the meaning of this?'

'Yes' said Caladan Brood. 'You never learn'

Offline xiagan

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #3228 on: August 05, 2019, 09:18:30 PM »
I offered a very poor person a job, he refused. His wife was beggar, they lived in a ruin. I guess it was because they were so used to their poor life, a decent life scared them.

There could also have been a thousand other reasons. Your guess says more about you than it does about them, if you ask me.

Can you please tell me some? I thought about it a lot and this was the most sensible explanation.

They lived in a ruin (literally) and had two kids. Older one was barefoot. The other was a baby.
The husband was collecting paper from the garbage to sell. He had no permanent job.
The mother was begging with her two children when my wife met them.

I offered them a house to stay and a permanent job. They refused. The husband did not even bother to come and speak to me about the new opportunity. He simply ignored me.

Of course there could be other reasons. But mine made sense. I also asked other people about them and their motivations. They backed me up, too.

Don't underestimate the fear of change. Or maybe they didn't think you were serious because things like that only happen in stories?
"Sire, I had no need of that hypothesis." (Laplace)

Offline Magnus Hedén

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #3229 on: August 05, 2019, 10:23:59 PM »
The most sensible explanation that you can come up with isn't necessarily the most sensible explanation.

Mental illness comes to mind, but not even that is required to make big changes in life scary, no matter what they are. And having lived the life they have, I'm certain one thing comes very hard: trust. Perhaps he simply didn't believe you, because no outsider ever offered him anything but abuse in his life? Perhaps he assumed you were making fun of him, because that's the only thing anyone else ever had done? Perhaps he was too proud and needed convincing? Perhaps he had some irrational fear, brought on by years and years of a hard life, like thinking his family would leave him if they no longer depended on him? Perhaps there was an emotional connection to the house they lived in that felt too strong? Perhaps there was an emotional connection to the life they lead, however terrible, because that's all they knew?

I'm not saying these are good or rational reasons to turn you down, but they are human reasons. You drew your conclusion and you stand by it; fine. I can't tell you what's right or wrong in this particular case, but I can tell you this: it's a lot more difficult to understand people's motivations than you appear to think. And people do things for the strangest reasons, often against logic and sense. When someone has been stuck in a bad situation for a very long time, there's only one thing that's sure: it will have affected them deeply, and unlikely in a positive way.
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Offline Neveesandeh

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #3230 on: August 05, 2019, 11:02:30 PM »
Anyone out there got any insight into soveriegn citizens?

I just read an article about them. Apparently their ideology is the one most likely to be espoused by American terrorists. The article mentioned some loser and his son who ambushed and murdered a couple of cops for no reason whatsoever.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/15/sovereign-citizens-rightwing-terrorism-hate-us-government
« Last Edit: August 05, 2019, 11:09:29 PM by Neveesandeh »

Offline Rostum

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #3231 on: August 05, 2019, 11:39:19 PM »
Thanks @Neveesandeh yeah they are a spawning a type of domestic terrorism that America is keen to overlook.
Timothy McViegh had dealings with them although he was raised RC and an agnostic as an adult.
They seem to come in 3 flavours which are by no means mutually exclusive.

Low level/petty criminals using it as an excuse to try and ignore statute to get out drug and driving offenses.
Right-wing extremists using it to justify racism, assorted bigotry and distrust of government.
Closed religious groups espousing their interpretation of the bible as trumping law.

It's the third group I am really interested and there are a significant number of them possibly 50,000 within North America and somewhere between 200,000 and 300,000 who identify as soveriegn citizens. yet the third group by their nature the hardest group to find information on.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2019, 11:43:37 PM by Rostum »

Offline Bender

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #3232 on: August 06, 2019, 12:51:05 AM »
The third group is anti authoritarian because if various issues like fun control or slavery etc. They are hard to identify because they give up most social government IDs like license, tax id etc and do not feature in any records like census etc.
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Offline Rostum

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #3233 on: August 06, 2019, 07:17:05 AM »
Just so. A nice little chart in this article today.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49227590

« Last Edit: August 06, 2019, 07:31:03 AM by Rostum »

Offline xiagan

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #3234 on: August 06, 2019, 08:25:07 AM »
Those sovereign citizens sound a lot like Germany's "Reichsbürger". People who don't acknowledge the government (various reasons, mostly I think because they say it's not a real government but a puppet show the allied forces installed after WWII, that Germany is still occupied but most people are too dumb to see it).
"Sire, I had no need of that hypothesis." (Laplace)

Offline Rostum

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #3235 on: August 06, 2019, 09:53:14 AM »
I did not know about this. I know Denmark and Sweden have people who 'opt out' local taxes.

Offline J.R. Darewood

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #3236 on: August 06, 2019, 10:47:30 AM »
Post redacted at owner's request
« Last Edit: August 15, 2019, 07:43:00 PM by J.R. Darewood »

Offline ScarletBea

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #3237 on: August 06, 2019, 11:02:37 AM »
 :(
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Offline JMack

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Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #3238 on: August 06, 2019, 11:25:00 AM »
I don’t even want to go back and read what I’ve missed.
 :'(
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Offline Rostum

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #3239 on: August 06, 2019, 05:40:49 PM »
The purpose of a forum is to hear and debate different viewpoints. As forums go this one is pretty sane and friendly (I can’t remember the last time anyone threatened to burn anyone else's house down) From time to time there will be ruffled feathers, but take a deep breath get on with Real life which sounds absolutely crazy mad at the moment and see how you feel about the forums when you finish the current assignment. I for one will be disappointed if you choose not to partake in that in the future and I am sure others will miss you should you choose not to post.