July 17, 2019, 01:54:49 PM

Author Topic: How many nationalities have we here  (Read 3345 times)

Offline Feanor

Re: How many nationalities have we here
« Reply #30 on: May 11, 2018, 08:56:35 AM »
I'm British but have lived in other parts of Europe and Asia for decades. I now live in the Hills of Shiding, which sounds close enough to an epic fantasy location for any fantasy writer :)

Or maybe it's a secret community of criminals who all share the same lisp!  ;)
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Offline Rostum

Re: How many nationalities have we here
« Reply #31 on: May 12, 2018, 07:12:34 PM »
Quote
As a general rule, I'm from Wales if I'm talking to British people, but British if talking anyone else. (Unless they ask which part of England, then I kick off  ;D )

 Wales is a principality I believe. There is a long tradition of the Welsh running down the English while living and working especially during the 6 nations rugby tournament. I worked with a guy from the valleys who lived and worked in Bristol but was very down on the English after a fairly foul tirade from him he was asked if Wales is so great and England so bad why is he here? to which he looked the guy in the eye and said "missionary work"

Quote
Britain counts as a separate nation from France and New York is counted with Texas, California, and the stuff in between?

You a thinking like an American. Everything doesn't compare (usually unfavorably) to how you do things. There is a tiny political elite who are desperate to make Europe into a single federalized state uniform and the similar wherever you travel within it. They are fighting against thousands of years of history, wildly different language, culture, cuisine and a lot of bloodshed.

Britain or better the UK is a separate nation from France despite or maybe because of a lot of shared history (often violent) because we are very different people with very different attitudes and lives to lead. Locality and geography have very little to do with it.

Offline Dark Squiggle

Re: How many nationalities have we here
« Reply #32 on: May 13, 2018, 05:50:21 AM »

Quote
Britain counts as a separate nation from France and New York is counted with Texas, California, and the stuff in between?

You a thinking like an American. Everything doesn't compare (usually unfavorably) to how you do things. There is a tiny political elite who are desperate to make Europe into a single federalized state uniform and the similar wherever you travel within it. They are fighting against thousands of years of history, wildly different language, culture, cuisine and a lot of bloodshed.

Britain or better the UK is a separate nation from France despite or maybe because of a lot of shared history (often violent) because we are very different people with very different attitudes and lives to lead. Locality and geography have very little to do with it.
Yeah, but England and Wales have a bloody history and are mostly considered one nation, as are Bavaria and Prussia, yet both are considered part of the nations of Britain and Germany. New York and California  have different cuisine and culture. Even if you stay in Flatbush (a section of the New York City Borough of Brooklyn), the different neighborhoods have histories, languages, cuisines and cultures, some 100+ years old,
 and they're definitely not nations. Just because New York and New Jersey never fought a war with California doesn't make them less of a nation. We did have wars here in the US, too, mostly thanks to the Europeans, (Queen Anne's War, The French and Indian War, the Civil War.), in which the American states fought each other. Not being a sovereign state doesn't prevent you from being a nation, classic examples are Poland under Russia and Greece under Turkey. I understand how Britain and France are a little more separate then Texas and Rhode Island, but to me the difference between Britain and France is almost nonexistent, except that the French speak a language I can't understand. "Nation" is a pretty meaningless word, and glorifying Europe over the US is ridiculous.

Offline Lady Ty

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Re: How many nationalities have we here
« Reply #33 on: May 13, 2018, 06:56:07 AM »

Quote
Britain counts as a separate nation from France and New York is counted with Texas, California, and the stuff in between?

You a thinking like an American. Everything doesn't compare (usually unfavorably) to how you do things. There is a tiny political elite who are desperate to make Europe into a single federalized state uniform and the similar wherever you travel within it. They are fighting against thousands of years of history, wildly different language, culture, cuisine and a lot of bloodshed.

Britain or better the UK is a separate nation from France despite or maybe because of a lot of shared history (often violent) because we are very different people with very different attitudes and lives to lead. Locality and geography have very little to do with it.
Yeah, but England and Wales have a bloody history and are mostly considered one nation.

Try telling the Welsh or English that ;D

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Offline Skip

Re: How many nationalities have we here
« Reply #34 on: May 13, 2018, 04:43:42 PM »
Our definition of nationhood is pretty simple: sovereignty. By that definition alone, Britain and France are each a nation. So are Moldavia and Bulgaria. Just because someone can't tell the difference does not make them any less a nation. Similarly, Estonia (to take a better example than Poland) was once part of the U.S.S.R. It was, for the duration, not a nation. Now it is. To take another example, once Sicily was its own nation. Now it's part of Italy.

Pre-modern nationhood was altogether more complex, but modern politics are vastly simplified. A nation-state is exactly that; nothing more or less.

Offline Rostum

Re: How many nationalities have we here
« Reply #35 on: May 13, 2018, 11:03:38 PM »
Any number tribes have been known as the people in their own tongue and sovereign  without any notion of Westphalian law or concept that they own the ground they take a living from, Some I believe in your own nation.

I think you can be a nation without territory wealth, land and power if the ideal is survival.

I suspect both the free and vichy French considered themselves as acting for the nation during World War 2.

Offline ScarletBea

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Re: How many nationalities have we here
« Reply #36 on: May 14, 2018, 07:58:30 AM »
I love how this turned out - see @Eclipse, and here you were thinking of starting a light fluffy thread ;D
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Offline Skip

Re: How many nationalities have we here
« Reply #37 on: May 14, 2018, 04:40:08 PM »
English is a marvelously sloppy language, cobbled together from multiple sources. Sometimes this complicates discussion.

How many nationalities have we here? That was the original question. What's a nationality?

Most people were replying with the implicit understanding the word means nation-state, the definition I gave earlier. By that, tribal people are not nations.

But the word itself is Latin, and in its original sense it does mean "a people" (I think I addressed this, but maybe I only think I did). That's why we have phrases like Sioux Nation (though, curiously, it's the Iriquois Confederacy). And some people who responded on the thread were proceeding from that ground. By that, someone might say they are Frisian or Lidar or Wend, but I suspect some might wonder where those countries are.

And there's another word. Country. Which is often meant to be synonymous with nation-state, but other times refers to rural areas or even, in the U.S., to a sub-culture. French has similar ambiguities: pays, état, nation. All of which is by way of saying everyone is right and no one is wrong on this one.

In my own world-building notes, I have elves, dwarves, humans, gnomes, ogres, each called a nation. But when I write actual stories, I probably can't use that because most of my readers are not going to read "nation" in its original sense. I'm still wrestling with it, because I don't want to call them races. But there are times when the question of "what are you" does come up.


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Re: How many nationalities have we here
« Reply #38 on: May 15, 2018, 09:21:21 AM »
When I hear "nationality" I usually think of an ethnic group associated with a political nation off the bat (like Vietnamese American for example), though I'm not sure that Californian would count under that definition either.   

Offline JMack

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Re: How many nationalities have we here
« Reply #39 on: May 15, 2018, 12:58:19 PM »
When I hear "nationality" I usually think of an ethnic group associated with a political nation off the bat (like Vietnamese American for example), though I'm not sure that Californian would count under that definition either.

Would I qualify as a “Hospitaler” right now?  :D
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Offline Lady Ty

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Re: How many nationalities have we here
« Reply #40 on: May 15, 2018, 02:10:42 PM »
Would I qualify as a “Hospitaler” right now?  :D

Absolutely. A Knight Hospitaller of the Order of St John  of Malta.

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Offline Yora

Re: How many nationalities have we here
« Reply #41 on: May 15, 2018, 07:19:43 PM »
I am three quarters Holsteiner and one quarter Pommeranian.


Offline xiagan

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Re: How many nationalities have we here
« Reply #42 on: May 15, 2018, 07:37:51 PM »
In that case I'm three quarters Hessian and one quarter Westphalian, living in Prussia.
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