December 14, 2019, 08:39:27 PM

Author Topic: Politics and other ailments of the real world  (Read 289113 times)

Offline ScarletBea

  • Welcome party and bringer of Cake. 2nd-in-Command of the Writing Contest
  • Powers That Be
  • Big Wee Hag
  • *
  • Posts: 11330
  • Total likes: 6547
  • Gender: Female
  • Geeky Reading Introvert
    • View Profile
    • LibraryThing profile
Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #3405 on: December 13, 2019, 05:50:32 AM »
 :'( I guess we'll be able to say 'I told you so' as the country goes even worse...
Why do people believe so many lies? Yes, the truth is hard, but it's the truth. Life is hard, complicated and complex, life isn't a soundbite.

People voted for the lizards, selfishly, and I'm not sure what I'm going to do... Just focus on village life, I guess, try to survive, and try to help others.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2019, 06:00:58 AM by ScarletBea »
At home in the Fantasy Faction forum!

I'm "She Who Reigns Over Us All In Crimson Cheer", according to Peat!

Offline Eli_Freysson

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #3406 on: December 13, 2019, 08:27:32 AM »
... it sure would have been nice to see Boris Johnson pay some kind of logical price for being an open racist. But I guess those just aren't the times we're living in.
I'll notify your next of kin... that you sucked!

Offline Magnus Hedén

  • High Lord of commas and Grand Master of semicolons
  • Godling
  • **
  • Posts: 269
  • Total likes: 219
  • Gender: Male
  • My name is Magnus. I make stuff up.
    • View Profile
    • My Patreon
Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #3407 on: December 13, 2019, 09:24:45 AM »
This trend is so worrying in democracies all over the world. It shows how easily they can be subverted by outside influence. A way to innoculate against misinformation should be the priority of every democracy now -- unfortunately the people winning aren't likely to be interested in that.
You can find stories on my Patreon
I'm also on Twitter and the Book of Faces

Offline xiagan

  • Writing Contest Organizer
  • Powers That Be
  • Ringbearer
  • *
  • Posts: 6007
  • Total likes: 2627
  • Gender: Male
  • Master Procrastinator
    • View Profile
Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #3408 on: December 13, 2019, 12:27:43 PM »
Boris Johnson showed so many times that he is unfit for office (for everything besides jail, really) that I just can't wrap my head around the results.

Anybody remember this headline from 2004?



Well, Brits, now you know.
"Sire, I had no need of that hypothesis." (Laplace)

Offline Peat

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #3409 on: December 13, 2019, 01:20:37 PM »
:'( I guess we'll be able to say 'I told you so' as the country goes even worse...
Why do people believe so many lies? Yes, the truth is hard, but it's the truth. Life is hard, complicated and complex, life isn't a soundbite.

People voted for the lizards, selfishly, and I'm not sure what I'm going to do... Just focus on village life, I guess, try to survive, and try to help others.

Because they want to believe. They know in their gut what they want, and they adjust their worldview and facts around it. This article from New Statesman does a great job of showing it imo - https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/elections/2019/12/why-voters-trust-certain-politicians-even-when-they-know-they-re-lying

That's where the fightback will happen. Giving people who couldn't be bothered that emotional gut-punch that changes what they want.

Offline ScarletBea

  • Welcome party and bringer of Cake. 2nd-in-Command of the Writing Contest
  • Powers That Be
  • Big Wee Hag
  • *
  • Posts: 11330
  • Total likes: 6547
  • Gender: Female
  • Geeky Reading Introvert
    • View Profile
    • LibraryThing profile
Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #3410 on: December 13, 2019, 02:09:37 PM »
Because they want to believe. They know in their gut what they want, and they adjust their worldview and facts around it. This article from New Statesman does a great job of showing it imo - https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/elections/2019/12/why-voters-trust-certain-politicians-even-when-they-know-they-re-lying
Thanks, that was a great article.
It doesn't help me feel better, but at least there's a scientific reason for the situation ::)
At home in the Fantasy Faction forum!

I'm "She Who Reigns Over Us All In Crimson Cheer", according to Peat!

Offline Neveesandeh

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #3411 on: December 13, 2019, 04:37:04 PM »
As I said earlier, I've forfeited my right to whine, so I'll try to explain as objectively as I can. Our voting system often inflates majorities. In 2015, or 2014, I forget which, the Conservative party won only around 30% of the votes, but still got a majority of seats. So it's likely that Johnson's support isn't as large as the results suggest.

That said he is genuinely popular over here. Everyone seemed to love him when he was Mayor of London. He was seen as a kind of charming buffoon. I can't remember anyone bringing up all the questionable racists things he said back then, but I think people also used to be a bit for forgiving of that kind of thing a few years back. It's only with the rise of populism that people have started to take a firmer stance. I wasn't even aware that he had said those things.

Honestly, I used to like him myself. I didn't think he was Prime Minister material, but I wouldn't have minded him being Prime Minister. I remember reading about he thought London was such a wonderful and diverse city and he didn't see immigration as an issue like so many in the party did.

My thoughts on him only changed with the referendum. I had no idea he was a Eurosceptic and for him to come out as a Leaver felt like a massive betrayal from a person who I used to think was one of the few decent Tories. When I was talking politics with my dad, he brought up his various dodgy statements and outright lies and it became obvious what a nihilistic, selfish charlatan the man is.

Since the referendum, I've made quite a few Leaver friends, and many in my family voted Leave as well. I know they aren't all a bunch of racists. But the whole movement has become hijacked to further Johnson's career. All he cared about was getting into power and now all he cares about is staying there.

The same criticism doesn't apply to Corbyn, who is a man of very strong beliefs and values, but he's hardly innocent. Every Corbyn supporter I've met, not a Labour voter, but a die-hard fan of Corbyn, cared far more about 'purging Blairites' and holding rallies than they did about beating the Tories. England is not a socialist country and a hardcore socialist will not win an election here. Quite a few people in Labour understood this, and I think Corbyn does too. He is an activist, not a leader. It will take Labour a very long time to recover from the mess he put them in. He put far more effort into attacking his own party than he ever did into attacking the government. 2017 wasn't a sign of things to come, it was a fluke.

Offline hexa

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #3412 on: December 13, 2019, 07:04:42 PM »
Jeremy Corbyn says he will step down as Labour leader early next year.  Let's kiss him goodbye

Offline Rostum

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #3413 on: December 13, 2019, 10:53:27 PM »
Quote
Jeremy Corbyn says he will step down as Labour leader early next year.  Let's kiss him goodbye

This is accepted form for UK Pols who lose an election.

Quote
The same criticism doesn't apply to Corbyn, who is a man of very strong beliefs and values, but he's hardly innocent. Every Corbyn supporter I've met, not a Labour voter, but a die-hard fan of Corbyn, cared far more about 'purging Blairites' and holding rallies than they did about beating the Tories. England is not a socialist country and a hardcore socialist will not win an election here. Quite a few people in Labour understood this, and I think Corbyn does too.

I can wholeheartedly agree with this. However it was utterly necessary to purge Blairites and the idiocy that went along with them. Career politicians who believe in meritocracy and hold no firm views on actual politics should be unwelcome in any party.

I for one did not welcome the choice of Tory or Tory lite however the political scenery then looks a lot prettier than it does now.

Offline Peat

Re: Politics and other ailments of the real world
« Reply #3414 on: Today at 09:35:13 AM »

Thanks, that was a great article.
It doesn't help me feel better, but at least there's a scientific reason for the situation ::)

Tbh I can't imagine anything making you feel better right now - but I can only imagine what this feels like for you and others in your position - it's not often a country says "**** you" to people living in it quite so clearly, not in Western Europe in this day and age :(


I can wholeheartedly agree with this. However it was utterly necessary to purge Blairites and the idiocy that went along with them. Career politicians who believe in meritocracy and hold no firm views on actual politics should be unwelcome in any party.

I for one did not welcome the choice of Tory or Tory lite however the political scenery then looks a lot prettier than it does now.

Corbyn and his more fervent supporters called anyone to the right of John McDonnell as Blairites. I never voted for Labour while he was PM and marched against Iraq and was routinely called a Blairite when I argued with them. And tbh, by the end of it - give me actual Blairites over Corbyn. Better a choice between Tory and Tory-lite, if we're going to indulge in insults, than a choice between Tory and Never Will Be Elected.