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Author Topic: "The Triumph of Fantasy Fiction?"  (Read 7788 times)

Offline Raptori

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Re: "The Triumph of Fantasy Fiction?"
« Reply #15 on: April 05, 2015, 04:54:22 PM »
The list is the most popular Authors by sales worldwide on Amazon.

I doubt it's worldwide, it only says 'sales on Amazon.com' (the specific US site). If people from other countries buy there, fine, but Europe has got specific Amazon sites all of their own that aren't included in the list (off the top of my head I can think of individual sites for the UK, Germany, France and Spain).
Plus you can order from any of the European ones from any other European country - we've bought stuff from .co.uk and .de to be delivered to Finland in the past. Finland's probably too small a market to warrant its own Amazon site  :-\
No, wait. U.S. = worldwide, didn't you know?  ;)
So... tempted... to press... like...

...  :o ...

...fine, I give in.  ;D
« Last Edit: April 05, 2015, 05:00:05 PM by Raptori »
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Online ScarletBea

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Re: "The Triumph of Fantasy Fiction?"
« Reply #16 on: April 05, 2015, 05:05:35 PM »
So... tempted... to press... like...

...  :o ...

...fine, I give in.  ;D

 ;D I don't give in.
This is a country that calls US sales 'domestic', regardless of the selling place/company ::)
So a big "Not like" ;)
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Offline Raptori

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Re: "The Triumph of Fantasy Fiction?"
« Reply #17 on: April 05, 2015, 05:10:01 PM »
So... tempted... to press... like...

...  :o ...

...fine, I give in.  ;D

 ;D I don't give in.
This is a country that calls US sales 'domestic', regardless of the selling place/company ::)
So a big "Not like" ;)
Well I took it as @Jmacyk mocking the arrogance of America, which is at least vaguely like-worthy when coming from an American.  :P
I wish the world was flat like the old days, then I could travel just by folding a map.

Offline JMack

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Re: "The Triumph of Fantasy Fiction?"
« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2015, 05:16:45 PM »
So... tempted... to press... like...

...  :o ...

...fine, I give in.  ;D

 ;D I don't give in.
This is a country that calls US sales 'domestic', regardless of the selling place/company ::)
So a big "Not like" ;)
Well I took it as @Jmacyk mocking the arrogance of America, which is at least vaguely like-worthy when coming from an American.  :P
Yes, this ^  ;D

Then I thought I'd rag on the U.S. some more by finding the original source for the term "jingoism". Imagine my surprise to find the source was...
Spoiler for Hiden:
Britain


We don't want to fight but by Jingo if we do
We've got the ships, we've got the men, we've got the money too
We've fought the Bear before, and while we're Britons true
The Russians shall not have Constantinople.

Arrogance: It's all in the family?  ;)
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Offline Raptori

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Re: "The Triumph of Fantasy Fiction?"
« Reply #19 on: April 05, 2015, 05:22:17 PM »
So... tempted... to press... like...

...  :o ...

...fine, I give in.  ;D

 ;D I don't give in.
This is a country that calls US sales 'domestic', regardless of the selling place/company ::)
So a big "Not like" ;)
Well I took it as @Jmacyk mocking the arrogance of America, which is at least vaguely like-worthy when coming from an American.  :P
Yes, this ^  ;D

Then I thought I'd rag on the U.S. some more by finding the original source for the term "jingoism". Imagine my surprise to find the source was...
Spoiler for Hiden:
Britain


We don't want to fight but by Jingo if we do
We've got the ships, we've got the men, we've got the money too
We've fought the Bear before, and while we're Britons true
The Russians shall not have Constantinople.

It's all in the family?  ;)
Lol yeah, the UK is almost as bad as the US. I'm not really a fan of patriotism at all to be honest - dividing people up based on where they were born, teaching them to identify more with others from nearby, and think of people from anywhere else as different and alien... fairly easy to see where that leads!
I wish the world was flat like the old days, then I could travel just by folding a map.

Offline Conan

Re: "The Triumph of Fantasy Fiction?"
« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2015, 05:37:08 PM »
Clearly this is a sore subject.

My opinion on this has changed and I now think the evolution of the genre is a positive thing.

More fantasy writers and fans of both genders will continue to evolve the genre further. Perhaps what we recognize as fantasy today will be 'Old Hat' in another 40 years from now.

I do think that some people seek an emotional connection to characters in fiction--that personally--I could take or leave.

I don't know if that is because I am a man or not. It could be just me and the way I think.

I do not need to feel emotionally vested in a protagonist to enjoy a story, not even a little.

I do feel an emotional connection to fantasy in general though and I think that whatever form of escapism we identify with is a healthy thing in the long run.

Perhaps the genre should be looked at as Old School , New School, ...Developing School?

I am willing to tip my hat of respect to all three .....even Bears.

c



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Offline sennydreadful

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Re: "The Triumph of Fantasy Fiction?"
« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2015, 05:46:21 PM »


I do think that some people seek an emotional connection to characters in fiction--that personally--I could take or leave.

I don't know if that is because I am a man or not. It could be just me and the way I think.

I do not need to feel emotionally vested in a protagonist to enjoy a story, not even a little.


c

I honestly think this has nowt to do with gender, and everything to do with personal preference. I know plenty of men (the majority of men I know, maybe?) who want to be emotionally invested in characters. I also know a lot of women who like a really good blood bath and plenty of violence - and all shades in between.

The sooner we move away from "I like this because I am a man, you like this because you are a woman" the better off we'll all be, I reckon.

Offline Raptori

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Re: "The Triumph of Fantasy Fiction?"
« Reply #22 on: April 05, 2015, 05:51:03 PM »
Clearly this is a sore subject.

My opinion on this has changed and I now think the evolution of the genre is a positive thing.

More fantasy writers and fans of both genders will continue to evolve the genre further. Perhaps what we recognize as fantasy today will be 'Old Hat' in another 40 years from now.

I do think that some people seek an emotional connection to characters in fiction--that personally--I could take or leave.

I don't know if that is because I am a man or not. It could be just me and the way I think.

I do not need to feel emotionally vested in a protagonist to enjoy a story, not even a little.

I do feel an emotional connection to fantasy in general though and I think that whatever form of escapism we identify with is a healthy thing in the long run.

Perhaps the genre should be looked at as Old School , New School, ...Developing School?

I am willing to tip my hat of respect to all three .....even Bears.

c
Interesting comments. I personally look for that emotional connection, and I'm male too lol. It's definitely nothing to do with your gender! :D

It's not that I need to feel emotionally vested in the protagonist to enjoy a story, the difference is that it matters far more to me when I am. Which is weird, because I'm not the kind of person who cares more when a friend or family member is hurt than when a stranger is - even more, I'm just as upset by the suffering of a cow as I would be by the suffering of a human going through the same situation...

I think it's more likely that the genre is just diversifying rather than just evolving. As long as there are people who enjoy reading a fun sword and sorcery adventure, there will be people writing stuff like that. The difference now is that there's a lot more variety to choose from, which I think is a wonderful thing.  :)


I honestly think this has nowt to do with gender, and everything to do with personal preference. I know plenty of men (the majority of men I know, maybe?) who want to be emotionally invested in characters. I also know a lot of women who like a really good blood bath and plenty of violence - and all shades in between.

The sooner we move away from "I like this because I am a man, you like this because you are a woman" the better off we'll all be, I reckon.
Couldn't agree more - gender is irrelevant to pretty much everything.
 
I wish the world was flat like the old days, then I could travel just by folding a map.

Offline Yora

Re: "The Triumph of Fantasy Fiction?"
« Reply #23 on: April 05, 2015, 08:43:58 PM »
What annoyed me was the condescension of the article and the implicit assumption that we, as readers, or fantasy authors in general would actually care or consider it an honour to be accepted in the so called "literary mainstream", just because ASoIAF is a raging success?
If you get accepted into the literary mainstream, I think you seriously have to question yourself as a fantasy writer. Clearly you'd be doing something terribly wrong.

Offline Elfy

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Re: "The Triumph of Fantasy Fiction?"
« Reply #24 on: April 06, 2015, 12:09:55 AM »
I'm a bloke and I tend to struggle with a book if I can't make some sort of emotional connection with the characters.
On the whole fantasy is mainstream thing, it's been mainstream for a very long time, you get these condescending articles from time to time, they tend to be written by people who read very narrowly.

Offline ultamentkiller

Re: "The Triumph of Fantasy Fiction?"
« Reply #25 on: April 06, 2015, 03:21:15 AM »
So pretty much, what I got from that article was, I love George R. R. Martin and I'm going to use this paper to show you how much, while trying to sound like I know what I'm talking about.

Offline Lady Ty

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Re: "The Triumph of Fantasy Fiction?"
« Reply #26 on: April 06, 2015, 03:33:29 AM »
Oh his on the second page with GRRM  :) and umm J.R.Ward and Abbie Zanders have you seen those covers my eyes hurt  ;D

Got to this page, saw GRRM was below an author whose tag is "Short, Sweet, Hot and Dirty", ROFL and gave up. ;D  ;D  ;D

Don't really think these lists are of much use except to promote sales. They can't be analysed seriously other than to see which books are the latest films or award winners and what the media is buzzing about at this moment. Should think it is only by analysing constant sales over several years you get any sense of long term changes and I believe this is where ongoing rise in fantasy choices will show. Most of the present vampire, paranormal, urban fantasy etc spinoffs will drop out and the best remain.
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Offline Lady Ty

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Re: "The Triumph of Fantasy Fiction?"
« Reply #27 on: April 06, 2015, 05:05:27 AM »
Clearly this is a sore subject.

My opinion on this has changed and I now think the evolution of the genre is a positive thing.

More fantasy writers and fans of both genders will continue to evolve the genre further. Perhaps what we recognize as fantasy today will be 'Old Hat' in another 40 years from now.


Perhaps the genre should be looked at as Old School , New School, ...Developing School?


Edited to apologise for double post, but I accidentally wiped my first two and made a muddle, so it has arrived in two parts.

I am willing to tip my hat of respect to all three .....even Bears.


I love the evolution of the genre, it has come so far in a comparatively short time and the new imagination and complexity is genuinely awesome to me, originally nourished on quest.

Not very keen on labels usually though I like Old School, New School and Developing School, but they will be flexible according to your own personal viewpoint and as time goes on they are all going to slip backwards. 
 
Depends what you grew up with and what came before, do you call Dragonlance, Belgariad, Dragonbone Chair or Thomas Covenant 'Old School' for example? When I read them they were New or Developing, although I hope in time they will all be regarded as Fantasy Classics. ;D

Reckon everyone here should make a list of their present day favourites and hide it until you have teenage grandchildren and see which they think are "Öld School", just for fun.  Maybe some of those books will be required school reading. ;D





« Last Edit: April 06, 2015, 06:33:09 AM by Lady Ty »
“This is the problem with even lesser demons. They come to your doorstep in velvet coats and polished shoes. They tip their hats and smile and demonstrate good table manners. They never show you their tails.” 
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Offline xiagan

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Re: "The Triumph of Fantasy Fiction?"
« Reply #28 on: April 06, 2015, 09:42:55 AM »
So pretty much, what I got from that article was, I love George R. R. Martin and I'm going to use this paper to show you how much, while trying to sound like I know what I'm talking about.
There was a Pat Rothfuss signing last month and I knew the girl who organized it. She said something along the lines "I usually don't read fantasy, but I enjoyed the Name of the Wind immensely."
This bothered me, but I wasn't fast enough to say it back then. It bothered me, because either she thinks all fantasy is as its worst stereotype (which means she has no idea what she was talking about - and she works in a book shop) or she isn't reading fantasy because she would be ashamed to admit it. Dunno what's worse.  :P
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Offline Yora

Re: "The Triumph of Fantasy Fiction?"
« Reply #29 on: April 06, 2015, 12:28:35 PM »
The worst would be claiming that Name of the Wind isn't really fantasy but serious lierature.