July 19, 2019, 04:03:03 PM

Author Topic: X-Men Apocolypse  (Read 805 times)

Offline ultamentkiller

X-Men Apocolypse
« on: May 31, 2016, 05:10:48 AM »
I'm surprised this doesn't exist yet, so here it is! Talk about everything X-Men Apocolypse below. I encourage people to put what they thought of the movie out of spoilers to help those who are still making decision, and to get into serious discussions in spoilers. I will do this below.

This movie was way better than I expected. I knew it would be an awesome showdown because, Apocolypse, but I didn't expect anything to be fantastic beyond the action scenes. What happened was completely different. First, the storyline really had some heart to it. All the characters felt real, the majority of the motivations felt real, and the majority of the action scenes had a dramatic punch to them. The timeline adds more to the intensity of everything. Because of Days of Futures Past, the timeline has almost been reset. Sure, some things will still turn out like they're supposed to, but the entire time there's a sense that others will change. For example, Angel. It just made the movie even more fun than it already was, and moments hit hard. What else adds to the epicness of this film? Quicksilver. Enough said.

Some spoiler thoughts.
Spoiler for Hiden:
What the hell did that end credit scene mean? I didn't get it. Also, will the next Wolverine movie tie him back to X-Men?

I loved the way they connected Jean and Wolverine in a very subtle way. I'm not sure if he will fully remember her, but it will explain his future love interest.

Magneto's story was interesting. I expected him to be allied with the X-Men the entire time, but I guess not. Still, his motivations mostly made sense in the end. He's always been a little unhinged, so it doesn't have to be completely logical.

I loved what they did with Storm. I had no idea how she came to be one of the X-Men, so that plotline fascinated me. I'm not sure if it goes that way in the comics at all, but it worked.

Is it just me, or was the mansion rebuilt really fast? I'm sorry, but even with all of your powers, there's no way you can do that.

Why the hell didn't Quicksilver tell Erick? Someone's going to tell him in a future film, and he'll look around and realize no one is surprised. "You knew?" "Yep. Everyone knew but you." What the hell!"

Poor Alex! I didn't think he was around for the original trilogy, but I was hoping that would be an awesome change. Guess not. :(

Can we just get a Quicksilver movie? Sure, maybe throw someone else in there to balance him out, but that would be awesome. Hell, what about Quicksilver and Deadpool? That would be hilarious!

Think I got all of my thoughts out of my head for now. Feel free to comment and all that lovely stuff below!

Offline Nora

  • Dropped in from another planet avec son sourire provocateur - et Hades and Writing Contest Regular
  • Writing Group
  • Dragonrider
  • ***
  • Posts: 4567
  • Total likes: 3524
  • Gender: Female
  • The Explorer
    • View Profile
Re: X-Men Apocolypse
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2016, 05:50:32 AM »
I already posted my thoughts on this in What are you Currently Watching, so here is the copy paste of it. Sorry to see we're not agreeing on this!

Quote
Some refreshing laughing moments, and a totally new and warped timeline setting itself in place... I really liked the character of quicksilver who once again completely stole the show, though Kurt was a fairly good comic relief.

But overall I'm still terribly underwhelmed. The photography was insipid and aseptic. The movie relies on big special effects and full centered, uninspired shots of a badass mutants posing, instead of characterisation, or even a reasonable plot. What they did to Magneto in particular was horrible.

Acting wise, I'm also pretty disappointed in Sophie Turner, who plays Jean/Phoenix. She was bad, and not as "kid being awkward" but as "actress being awkward". She seems like her success in playing Sansa might be due to it being her main role, and she'll need time and experience to break out of the frigid Sansa faces, going beyond the cold/angry/scared which are the main things she does.
Jean felt like a human automaton. The only moment she was good at anything was when she freaked out and shrieked.

The CGI was pretty impressive, all but for a scene in a port, which looked exactly like ps4 cut scene at best and was very jarring.


As for the failure of characters... The blue guy spent so much time calling himself names in tongues without subtitles that I saw the movie 3h ago and I could not give you a hint of a name. He also seemed batshit crazy, but not like "you're not too sure what his deal is" and "there might be more going on with this dude" – no. He was just the kind of guy you find in institutions, shrieking at the rose bushes or banging his head against the walls.
He had no hint of humanity or logical reasoning. Did no manipulation of people around him beyond the coarsest of bribes... There were no apparent reasons why mutants would follow him, beyond being rotten human beings at heart.
Which brings me to Magneto and Storm, which I put in spoilers, though they're mild, since you can guess the facts from the trailers...
Spoiler for Hiden:
Seriously, Storm is depicted as a street urchin who idolizes Mystic for intervening to prevent bloodshed – yet another bit of rant. This movie does NOTHING to ease you into remembering the previous films. If you haven't seen them, you're going to struggle to follow, which I find frankly bad. I know they're a franchise, but even Star Wars put up their "resume" in the beginning, damn it. Here they didn't even give you hints to remember the crappy cuba on the beach scene from 2 films ago!!!–
Back to Storm. Yeah. She goes from loving peaceful Mystic to being a pawn for a genocidal maniac, after nothing more than being touched on the chin and given more power. Her inner struggles are pathetic : she basically changes sides as soon as she realises that Mystic is on the other team, because if Mystic fights for a side, it must be the good guy side. She gets to join the school without issues.
But now Eric... Oh poor Magneto... As he goes for the Apocalypse team, he is told to remember what Charles told him, 2 or 3 movies ago! *half baked philosophical line about seeing good in you, buddy!* but he turns against it, refuses to listen, and proceeds to kill THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE, if not millions, by crunching car, breaking bridges, and desatomizing entire sky-scrappers!!! Just because they don't show the people dying doesn't make them less dead!
And then what?? Mystic shows up to his metal bubble, repeats the same half baked goodie sentence, guilt trips him, and poof, after having his own private flashback of the SAME HALF BAKED PHILOSOPHICAL line, this time with Charles smiling face from 2 movies ago to flavour it, he just turn his coat on his new master, while he was so bent on murdering humans!
(The whole destroying thing, by the way, kills people indiscriminately of being mutants or not, unlike in the original xmen movies)
And lo and behold, Eric, after murdering tens of thousands, is absolved in the eyes of the army's top dogs, since we hear a report-mic-voice saying to the big wiggged american generals that "magneto might have had a hand in destroying the threat" (meaning Apocalypse), despite him being the main cause for worldwide damage in the first place. - but worse, he is also completely forgiven by all the x-men, Charles calls him his friend, and they all let him walk off weeks later, when he decides to go and lead his life apart from the X-men.

Not a judgement, not a reproach, not a person scared of just how much of a loose cannon Magneto is becoming, erupting in maniacal bouts of mass destructions every decade... And himself seems to hold no bad feelings towards himself.
No one cares. Dude just ripped the world to shreds and no one bats an eye.

When he walks away then, and Mystic stays behind and starts lecturing the new born x-men in the new simulator fight room, and the doors closes on Charles Xavier looking at them, I had for the first time the very strong feeling that the x-men where a rich boy's private militia. It's exactly what they've become in my eyes, and completely different from what they used to feel like in the original trilogies.

I think the original x-men where much deeper, as big-buck as they were, they took the time to explore the mutants as people, outcasts or not... I still remember the epic one where wolverine is in the kitchen with another young kid when the house gets attacked... that was more fluid, realistic dialogue that you'll find at ANY time in this movie.
Apocalypse has dialogue to impress on you the urgency of everything, to tell you what the people are feeling, because their faces often fail to, etc.

It was a complete no-brainer with a few chuckles, worth 2h of my day off, but defo not worth the 20$ of the ticket.


Eric is pretty much the only character who has some emotional things happening to, and yet his character ends up awfully discredited from it. So overall disappointed.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2016, 05:55:42 AM by Nora »
"She will need coffee soon, or molecular degeneration will set in. Her French phrasing will take over even more strongly, and soon she will dissolve into a puddle of alienation and Kierkegaardian despair."  ~ Jmack

Wishy washy lyricism and maudlin unrequited love are my specialty - so said Lady_Ty

Offline ultamentkiller

Re: X-Men Apocolypse
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2016, 07:24:27 AM »
A couple of things.
Spoiler for Hiden:
As far as Storm goes, I agree that her character shift was a bit odd, but I can kind of understand why. I'm not sure she realized that anyone with her same amount of power could be anything but terrible, so that's what she went for. When she saw the others fighting for something different, and looked around and realized the extent of what she had done, she changed. I think the consequences of her actions won't be seen until a couple movies from now. I don't believe the X-Men fully trust her or forgive her yet, but that's not something easily shown in the last 10 minutes.

Magneto. I think you're placing too much emphasis on him remembering what Charles said. That's certainly part of it, but not all. Raven approached him in a completely different way. She reminded him of family. Reminded him of their bond, as well as him and Charles strained relationship. Even in the original trilogy, Magneto and the Professor were never hateful towards each other. They always had respect for the other, and had multiple conversations about it. It was like that even in the cartoon and comics. Also, he might have slightly recognized Quicksilver. We won't know that until someone broaches the subject with him in later films.

As for Phoenix, I have no clue. I don't remember any high-pitched shrieking at all, and she seemed to deliver her lines like a pissed-off teenager. I can't judge on her facial expressions.

About Megneto's consequences. The same thing happened in X-Men 2. He did all of this terrible crap, switched sides, and everybody was cool with him at the end of that movie. And it happened again in Days of Futures past. He just showed up after all that mess in X-Men 3 and everyone started liking him and appreciating him because he was on the right side. In the end, Charles doesn't want to drive him to more hatred, and thinks that peace will eventually bring him over. If I'm remembering correctly. It's something that just happens. Plus, the government has to recognize that if they hadn't bothered him in the first place, he may have never been on Apocolypse's side. On top of that, who the hell wants to mess with him in the first place? I'm sure they're ready to accept any reason so that they can publicly pardon him, while privately working with Striker and whoever else to bring him down in a more discrete way.

As for people following Apocolypse, it's like any devil story. People are willing to follow something that gives them more power. It's definitely not a new thing. At first, it did feel like brainwashing since I wasn't sure of the full scope of his power, but it wasn't direct. Even when Charles was confronted by his amplified powers, he admitted how good it felt. And all of the people he recruited had nothing left of their lives before he came along. So they were the perfect targets. On a more realistic level, gangs do it, terrorists do it, and even the army does it. Show people that they can have more control over their lives than they already do, and they will jump at the chance.
Maybe I'm assuming too much, but I think I read somewhere that you don't enjoy most superhero movies lately. Could this be one of those things?

Offline Nora

  • Dropped in from another planet avec son sourire provocateur - et Hades and Writing Contest Regular
  • Writing Group
  • Dragonrider
  • ***
  • Posts: 4567
  • Total likes: 3524
  • Gender: Female
  • The Explorer
    • View Profile
Re: X-Men Apocolypse
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2016, 08:06:00 AM »
No, my enjoyment for super heroes has little to do with my dislike of these movies. It's just that they're becoming blockbusters that rely on CGI over plot, plot over character development, and have not a moment to spare for decent photography.

I loved Jessica Jones, enjoy Daredevil, liked the original X-men trilogy, loved Watchmen, adored Mighnight Special, though it's more a "powers" than super hero movie.
I used to like spiderman, used to like superman. Just never got into batman. The new Xmen are just becoming bad, the last batman vs superman was garbage... I still have hope for other films, I'll still go see Suicide Squad, etc.

Now to address your points :

Spoiler for Hiden:
This will sound snappy but, would any of your argument weight anything, if it were real life mass murder?
Would you save Hitler, befriend Hitler (yes, I'll take the godwin point, but it's efficient in this instance), over the fact that his friend "approached him form a different angle", reminded him of his family, and he stops murdering indiscriminately millions of people?
Do you think American Colonels would give the time of day to a mass murderer because the russian rangers gave him a hard time?
The only argument you advance that justifies being nice to Magneto, in my eyes, is that we might be afraid of him and try to stay on his good side until taking him down.

He killed MILLIONS, out of grief for his murdered family.
It excuses nothing in real life. Real life dude would get the chair in any US state for killing a tenth of the people Magneto slays. In cold blood too. At least in previous movies he got sentenced to jail until mystique breaks him out.
Also, I find his involvement with Mystic sourly lacking now that the timeline is different. We all think they're tight, back from the original trilogy. But in the new one, she sleeps with him and sides with him once, but then they split, she ruins his plans, then goes on her own, for around 14 years?
And yet he changes his mind after she guilt trips him? Says "you have me"? No he doesn't! Probably is the first time he sees her in 14 years.
As for recognizing Quicksilver, I say no. There is no hint he does, and it remains a weak excuse.

When Charles reaches for Magneto before he puts the helmet on, they are connected mind to mind, and Charles reminds him first hand of that moment they had movies ago, about the good in him, and Eric won't listen.
I don't get why they didn't find anything more powerful to change his opinion later on with Mystic, since it's the flashback to Charles that seem to turn him.
And I'm glad Quicksilver didn't call him Dad then, because if that had broken Eric's determination, he would have looked like someone just desperate to be a dad, which is fine but when you're in the middle of mass murder AND mass destruction, that's terrifyingly awkward.

Why Magneto or the bird dude decide to become evil is easy to understand. You're right on that part. Power feels good, they're better, stronger, part of a gang. Fine. But the catharsis given to magneto is so flimsy, it's horrible.
That people can smile fondly at him after what happened, and nearly took Charles' life, is character building Negative 101.
It could happen. But not in the timeframe they tried to make it happen. At least the original trilogy had Magneto as an ambiguous villain, an odd friend, pro-mutants, left Xavier's school alone, could possibly be allied with, etc.

Now he's just a nutcase murderer.


For Phoenix I mean that facial expression wise, her only good moment was when she shrieks and takes on fire, releasing her power. Her lines might have rang true, but believe me on this, she was really bad when it came to delivering them. I started to dread seeing her on screen, she was taking me out of the movie so much.

Storm : Yes you're all right about her, BUT, the movie did the super simplified version of it, and I can't accept your solution. I just can't make a character good by inventing excuses that might happen completely off screen.
Again, her facial expressions were ridiculous. Oh, Mystic is my hero. Oh I'm so powerful, I'll follow you. Yeah, we're destroying my hometown, all the world I've known. Screw the pyramids. Cool cool. Oh, you want me to fry these people? Cool.
Oh, wait, what, my hero fight for the enemy? *5scd of onscreen struggle* turns cloak, fight for Xmen. Next shot, is looking like a normal, happy teen who gets to actually "choose" to stick around Xavier's school. Like a starved Cairo street urchin who got flown to America get a choice at anything...
It was just lame. It's fine for teenagers, but not for adults. I want x-men movies to be cool, but also to get some of the struggles and realism that super powers would have in real life. Or else I'm gonna go watch the WOW movie, where it's all fantasy.
I want more of what made Jessica Jones good. Great acting, powers and mutants meshed with real life people, consequences to your actions, not the possibility to go from favourite character to mass murder/destruction mojo and then back to favourite character in a blink.
I mean, who didn't love Kilgrave? He was crazily over powered, had obvious loving and parental issues, had weaknesses and even tried his hands for the good, and you just couldn't tell if he meant it or not... But no. In Xmen, you get a frozen blue dude who bullies and bribes people into doing his job, tries to jump into someone else's body, yells, yells, yells, I'm a god, Aaaaaaaah! Dies. 
 

Just saying that these points are where the franchise is slowly dying for me.
"She will need coffee soon, or molecular degeneration will set in. Her French phrasing will take over even more strongly, and soon she will dissolve into a puddle of alienation and Kierkegaardian despair."  ~ Jmack

Wishy washy lyricism and maudlin unrequited love are my specialty - so said Lady_Ty

Offline ultamentkiller

Re: X-Men Apocolypse
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2016, 08:36:08 AM »
I can understand a couple of those.

Spoiler for Hiden:
As far as Megneto walking away. He didn't get arrested at the end of X-Men 2. The government wasn't even after him. He just escaped from prison after killing all of those people, killed some more people in the process, lead a strike on the government, and walked away. In fact, the entire X-Men team attacked the government, and they're only response was to take it to the Senate. I agree that it's not right, but it's what X-Men has done, and will probably keep continue doing.

As for Apocolypse. I think if they had made him another Grey villain, comic book fans would've become angry. If what I know is correct, that's exactly how his character is in the comic books. He comes back to realize that the weak are in power, and throws a temper tantrum. I love grey villains of course, but at least for now, I don't mind some completely insane ones.

As far as Mystic goes, I'm really not sure. Even in the original trilogy, they had their weird moments. In fact, she was more linked to him than he was to her. After she lost her powers, he just walked away. He kind of used her the entire time. I can understand where you're coming from with the 14 year gap, but at the same time, it would've been impossible for them to be together. She reminded him of mutants, and he was spending that time in an attempt to hide in plain sight. Also, she's the face of the mutant community at this point, so if she slipped up near him, it would've screwed a lot of things up. Also, even if she did decide to take another form so she could be with him, that's not how he likes her. He wants her to be in her natural blue scaly state. So that wouldn't have worked out. Perhaps, even after all that time, they still have a thing for each other, that even now won't work. I could be wrong, but I believe that sort of thing happens with people in real life all the time, excluding the mutant thing.

Also, were people really smiling at him? I know Charles did, but he did that anyway in the original trilogy too. I didn't see any of the others celebrating. It just showed him with X. Now that I'm thinking about it, the government never officially said they pardoned him. They just referenced him in the fight against Apocolypse, the news guy having a mildly shocked voice. We never did find out how the government actually feels about him.

Offline Nora

  • Dropped in from another planet avec son sourire provocateur - et Hades and Writing Contest Regular
  • Writing Group
  • Dragonrider
  • ***
  • Posts: 4567
  • Total likes: 3524
  • Gender: Female
  • The Explorer
    • View Profile
Re: X-Men Apocolypse
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2016, 09:17:34 AM »
Yes, they smile at him :

Spoiler for Hiden:
When he is rebuilding the house with Jean.

But the entire point you make with Mystic is not what bothers me. I don't mind she was doing her own thing. I just meant that saying "you have me" doesn't work if you've been out of someone's life for 14 years... Someone I slept with 14 years ago comes back to me in my grief addled state and tells me "you have me" (so do a double take on your decisions for my sake), I would most certainly not give it half the importance Eric did.
They play a lot with "what we know" and the fact that 14 years hasn't passed for us, so the time contingencies don't add up if you don't think about it.
"She will need coffee soon, or molecular degeneration will set in. Her French phrasing will take over even more strongly, and soon she will dissolve into a puddle of alienation and Kierkegaardian despair."  ~ Jmack

Wishy washy lyricism and maudlin unrequited love are my specialty - so said Lady_Ty

Offline Mr.J

  • Anus Dracula formerly known as Arse Demon and Writing Contest Regular
  • Writing Group
  • Gentleman Bastard
  • *****
  • Posts: 1652
  • Total likes: 1113
  • Gender: Male
  • Tweedy impertinence
    • View Profile
Re: X-Men Apocolypse
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2016, 12:08:06 PM »
The X-Men offer such a wealth of amazing possibilities and scope for a franchise of characters and films. Instead they make this bunch of hot mess - with dull ass black leather suits once again, an unhealthy obsession with Wolverine as the main character to end all characters and deciding to cast Oscar Isaac and neither use his voice or face!


Offline Shay_Fox

  • Builder
  • ******
  • Posts: 111
  • Total likes: 16
  • Gender: Female
  • I am me loving and caring.. I love to making since
    • View Profile
Re: X-Men Apocolypse
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2016, 09:50:13 PM »
The X-Men offer such a wealth of amazing possibilities and scope for a franchise of characters and films. Instead they make this bunch of hot mess - with dull ass black leather suits once again, an unhealthy obsession with Wolverine as the main character to end all characters and deciding to cast Oscar Isaac and neither use his voice or face!

Yes you are right Wolverine is the main character of this but they don't use him. I don't know what they think to make this hahaha.