June 05, 2020, 10:30:24 PM

Author Topic: what happened to peter jackson  (Read 10330 times)

Offline Charlemagne

Re: what happened to peter jackson
« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2014, 02:06:20 AM »
DISCLAIMER: I have not seen The Desolation of Smaug. I was put off enough by the first one that I felt no compulsion to watch the second. If my complaints are addressed in tDoS, then please disregard them! :)

I don't see them as fanfic. I think that PJ fanfic might be good. I'd like to have a better idea of the world, and especially get to see deeper into the characters. They have a great cast of actors, and I'm sure they'd be up to a more character-oriented telling of this story.

But instead, we have long, drawn-out action sequences. Which are fun for five minutes and boring for what feels like the next eleventy-one (see what I did there?;)) Where the LotR movies had great sweeping landscapes and beautiful shots, PJ replaced them here with green screen and crapy CGI effects. A massive, massive detractor.

I don't know who made the decision to split the Hobbit into three. But whoever it was, shame on them. If it was the studio, or the producers, I can forgive a lot of the fluffy filler stuff, as PJ has to fill up his minutes (still doesn't excuse the CGI!). But if it was him... then I really have lost a lot of respect for him, because that indicates a complete lack of respect for the material he's working with, and just using it to grab some cash.
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Offline Elfy

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Re: what happened to peter jackson
« Reply #16 on: August 01, 2014, 06:05:59 AM »
DISCLAIMER: I have not seen The Desolation of Smaug. I was put off enough by the first one that I felt no compulsion to watch the second. If my complaints are addressed in tDoS, then please disregard them! :)

I don't see them as fanfic. I think that PJ fanfic might be good. I'd like to have a better idea of the world, and especially get to see deeper into the characters. They have a great cast of actors, and I'm sure they'd be up to a more character-oriented telling of this story.

But instead, we have long, drawn-out action sequences. Which are fun for five minutes and boring for what feels like the next eleventy-one (see what I did there?;)) Where the LotR movies had great sweeping landscapes and beautiful shots, PJ replaced them here with green screen and crapy CGI effects. A massive, massive detractor.

I don't know who made the decision to split the Hobbit into three. But whoever it was, shame on them. If it was the studio, or the producers, I can forgive a lot of the fluffy filler stuff, as PJ has to fill up his minutes (still doesn't excuse the CGI!). But if it was him... then I really have lost a lot of respect for him, because that indicates a complete lack of respect for the material he's working with, and just using it to grab some cash.
I think it was the studios. They don't really have a lot of knowledge or respect for the material a lot of the time. I can just see them saying 'But the first one was 3 films, why can't you do 3 films for this one? These things have to come in 3's, Pete!'
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Offline sennydreadful

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Re: what happened to peter jackson
« Reply #17 on: August 01, 2014, 11:21:58 AM »
I loved the LOTR movies, and I've loved the last two Hobbit films - they are unashamedly high fantasy: embracing the dwarves, the gold, the singing, the dragons, adventure... And how often do we get that at the cinema? Jackson clearly loves the source material, and I look forward to going back to Middle Earth again. :D
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Offline andreasn

Re: what happened to peter jackson
« Reply #18 on: August 01, 2014, 11:27:42 AM »
I feel like the hobbit book was very much like a brothers Grimm fairy tale, but less dark and with a more developed world and story. the movies didn't capture that, they made something more like a modern fast paced, action oriented YA book.

Offline Phil Norris

Re: what happened to peter jackson
« Reply #19 on: August 01, 2014, 12:04:41 PM »
I think what those bemoaning the films are forgetting is the Hollywood maxim that the film is "based on" the source material and not a straight word for word adaptation (something that I believe has never been done in any genre).

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe PJ (or MGM/New Line) only has the rights to LOTR, The Hobbit and the appendices at the end of LOTR. Most of the additional content that have stretched the Hobbit into 3 films comes from those appendices. All of the action at Dol Guldur for instance all happened in The Hobbit book but happened off the page when Gandalf left Bilbo and the dwarves before they entered Mirkwood.

Azog wasn't in the book but he is a character from the appendices (though from several hundred years before the time of The Hobbit) so you have to give PJ poetic licence on that one but I can see why they included him. Apart from Smaug there is no real big bad in the book (the Necromancer stuff happens off the page remember) so they needed some antagonist to drive the story along.

Expecting a word for word, blow by blow faithful interpretation is never going to happen. The constraints of film making wont allow it and you'd never be able to fit everything into 2 - 3 hours of screen time.


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Re: what happened to peter jackson
« Reply #20 on: August 01, 2014, 04:35:12 PM »
I think what those bemoaning the films are forgetting is the Hollywood maxim that the film is "based on" the source material and not a straight word for word adaptation (something that I believe has never been done in any genre).

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe PJ (or MGM/New Line) only has the rights to LOTR, The Hobbit and the appendices at the end of LOTR. Most of the additional content that have stretched the Hobbit into 3 films comes from those appendices. All of the action at Dol Guldur for instance all happened in The Hobbit book but happened off the page when Gandalf left Bilbo and the dwarves before they entered Mirkwood.

Azog wasn't in the book but he is a character from the appendices (though from several hundred years before the time of The Hobbit) so you have to give PJ poetic licence on that one but I can see why they included him. Apart from Smaug there is no real big bad in the book (the Necromancer stuff happens off the page remember) so they needed some antagonist to drive the story along.

Expecting a word for word, blow by blow faithful interpretation is never going to happen. The constraints of film making wont allow it and you'd never be able to fit everything into 2 - 3 hours of screen time.

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Offline Charlemagne

Re: what happened to peter jackson
« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2014, 10:39:55 PM »
I would be happy to see an adaptation of the source material - I was really enthusiastic about seeing all the information form the appendices, etc. before the movies first came out. I still think there's a lot of potential in that information, and the movies still could be potentially very good.

The problem is that they aren't. Not that they're an "adaptation" or an "interpretation", or not appeasing my Tolkien fan-boy requirements. They are simply straight-up unenjoyable (at least to me). I came out of the theater after watching An Unexpected Journey thinking "Wow. That movie just stole three hours of my life from me." Really, there were about 40 minutes of useful, interesting scenes. Due to inflation and exaggerated length, I would still have been happy if the movie were between an hour and an hour and a half (not that I'm asking for this, mind you - I would just have preferred a total of two Hobbit movies). There is a distinct lack of substance in this movie: any meaning that was originally in the story was stripped from it by the endless layers of medium and fluff.

This is my problem with these movies. Not that they're not directly quoting Tolkien, but that they are not good. Again, at least to me. I understand that other people will have other opinions, and that's fine. But I just really want to emphasize that I would have been thrilled with an "interpretation" of The Hobbit, provided the movies were fun and entertaining. But they're not.
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Offline Timstar

Re: what happened to peter jackson
« Reply #22 on: August 02, 2014, 11:31:27 AM »
This is my problem with these movies. Not that they're not directly quoting Tolkien, but that they are not good.

Precisely! I have no issue with the source material he used (or didn't use) just that he turned it into terrible films.

Remember this quote from Wormtongue in LOTR:
Quote
Who knows what you have spoken to the darkness, alone, in the bitter watches of the night, when all your life seems to shrink, the walls of your bower closing in about you, a hutch to trammel some wild thing in? So fair, yet so cold like a morning of pale Spring still clinging to Winter's chill.

That reads like Shakespeare.

Now compare it to The Hobbit equivalent, Alfrid, the servent of the Mayor of Lake Town, a made up character.

Quote
Master of Lake-town: An election? That's absurd! I won't stand for it.
Alfrid: I don't think they'd ask you to stand, Sire.

That reads like a pantomime. Later on when Bard is being chased by the guards for no reason, Alfrid actually trips him up! The whole film was just a joke. Don't even know where to begin with the absurd gold smelting scene to try and kill Smaug. Also how does Bard's boat move when the sails are up and no one is rowing? It's a lake so there can't be enough of a current.

I simply cannot see what anyone over the age of 15 can see in those films.

Sorry, rant over.

Offline AshKB

Re: what happened to peter jackson
« Reply #23 on: August 02, 2014, 11:46:31 PM »

I simply cannot see what anyone over the age of 15 can see in those films.

Sorry, rant over.

Fun :D In this world full of grimdark novels and movies, where 'gritty' is seemingly the only selling point and things are depressing (quite...literally; a lot of the worldviews of lauded novels and movies nowdays remind me of my thought-patterns when I'm at my lowest), the Hobbit movies are FUN. And there's a life to them. LotR has a grand majesty, Hobbit is messier.

Not to everyone's type, obviously,  but it's been a decade since I was fifteen, and that's what I see.

(And...to be a little pedantic, Shakespeare would have both examples in his work. The man was very diverse, and frequently sly and slapstick in his humour.)
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Re: what happened to peter jackson
« Reply #24 on: August 03, 2014, 08:01:44 AM »

I simply cannot see what anyone over the age of 15 can see in those films.

Sorry, rant over.

Fun :D In this world full of grimdark novels and movies, where 'gritty' is seemingly the only selling point and things are depressing (quite...literally; a lot of the worldviews of lauded novels and movies nowdays remind me of my thought-patterns when I'm at my lowest), the Hobbit movies are FUN. And there's a life to them. LotR has a grand majesty, Hobbit is messier.

Not to everyone's type, obviously,  but it's been a decade since I was fifteen, and that's what I see.

(And...to be a little pedantic, Shakespeare would have both examples in his work. The man was very diverse, and frequently sly and slapstick in his humour.)

This is so true, the world seems to have gone "gritty" and "realistic" mad and I for one am beyond tired of it. I enjoyed the Hobbit movies, they are fun and filled with joy and hope and all things nice, maybe the problem is that people have forgotten how to have fun?

Offline Timstar

Re: what happened to peter jackson
« Reply #25 on: August 03, 2014, 08:20:15 AM »
Fun :D In this world full of grimdark novels and movies, where 'gritty' is seemingly the only selling point and things are depressing (quite...literally; a lot of the worldviews of lauded novels and movies nowdays remind me of my thought-patterns when I'm at my lowest), the Hobbit movies are FUN. And there's a life to them. LotR has a grand majesty, Hobbit is messier.

Not to everyone's type, obviously,  but it's been a decade since I was fifteen, and that's what I see.

(And...to be a little pedantic, Shakespeare would have both examples in his work. The man was very diverse, and frequently sly and slapstick in his humour.)

I'm not bothered about them being gritty or not, in fact I don't think it would work for The Hobbit. The film making is lazy, the lighting throughout is awful and looks like 90% of it was filmed in a studio. It doesn't feel like Middle Earth anymore. They keep re-using music from LOTR and it feels wrong in the new context.

I really wish I could see them as simple fun, and I envy those who do. But as said previously the films are simply too bad.

You're right about the Shakespeare quotes, but slap-stick doesn't work amidst the serious stories running parallel to that scene.

Offline sennydreadful

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Re: what happened to peter jackson
« Reply #26 on: August 03, 2014, 09:49:38 AM »

I simply cannot see what anyone over the age of 15 can see in those films.

Sorry, rant over.

Fun :D In this world full of grimdark novels and movies, where 'gritty' is seemingly the only selling point and things are depressing (quite...literally; a lot of the worldviews of lauded novels and movies nowdays remind me of my thought-patterns when I'm at my lowest), the Hobbit movies are FUN. And there's a life to them. LotR has a grand majesty, Hobbit is messier.

Not to everyone's type, obviously,  but it's been a decade since I was fifteen, and that's what I see.

(And...to be a little pedantic, Shakespeare would have both examples in his work. The man was very diverse, and frequently sly and slapstick in his humour.)

Aah this! There's room for all sorts of fantasy in the genre, that's why it's so great.
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Offline Elfy

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Re: what happened to peter jackson
« Reply #27 on: August 04, 2014, 12:12:41 AM »

I simply cannot see what anyone over the age of 15 can see in those films.

Sorry, rant over.

Fun :D In this world full of grimdark novels and movies, where 'gritty' is seemingly the only selling point and things are depressing (quite...literally; a lot of the worldviews of lauded novels and movies nowdays remind me of my thought-patterns when I'm at my lowest), the Hobbit movies are FUN. And there's a life to them. LotR has a grand majesty, Hobbit is messier.

Not to everyone's type, obviously,  but it's been a decade since I was fifteen, and that's what I see.

(And...to be a little pedantic, Shakespeare would have both examples in his work. The man was very diverse, and frequently sly and slapstick in his humour.)
I'm with you there, Ash. We need to the put the fun back into fantasy. The Hobbit was far more fairytaleish and lighter than LotR, it was sub titled There and Back Again after all. For me they kind of pulled the wrong rein with Radagast the Brown, I find him more annoying that amusing, rather like the Jar Jar Binks of Middle Earth, but other changes I quite like, such as the female elf. I don't really care that she's not in the book, she adds something to the film/s. I also like the way that they've made Kili into a sort of cross between a dwarf and an elf, a dwelf if you will. This could also come down to me really enjoying Aidan Turner's performance as Mitchell in Being Human.
With the emphasis on grim dark these days we've lost a bit of the fun from the genre. These things go in cycles so it will return, but at times I just want something light.
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Offline DireWolfSnow

Re: what happened to peter jackson
« Reply #28 on: August 18, 2014, 08:26:26 AM »
From what I understand, it was a studio decision by WB to split the movie into three parts, much like splitting Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows into two parts. It seems like studios are trying harder and harder to stretch extra profits out of their movies at the cost of the integrity of the movie itself, and I find that rather disappointing.

I'll admit to being in the minority who actually liked Radagast and his rabbit sled, but other changes like the shoehorned romance between Tauriel and Kili just irked me. (let's not mention the way, way too cliched shot of Kili looking up at Tauriel with the light shining behind her head...) The inclusion of Azog felt way to forced, since he was basically there to simply be an antagonist for the sake of having another antagonist.

Offline Saraband

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Re: what happened to peter jackson
« Reply #29 on: August 18, 2014, 10:32:14 AM »
It seems like studios are trying harder and harder to stretch extra profits out of their movies at the cost of the integrity of the movie itself, and I find that rather disappointing.

This is slightly off-topic, but the last book of the Hunger Games trilogy being split into two movies springs to mind.

I completely agree with you, and this is even worse when we can see how badly it has been done in some movies  :-\
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