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Author Topic: HTC Vive (The Discussion Thread!)  (Read 3249 times)

Online ScarletBea

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Re: HTC Vive (The Discussion Thread!)
« Reply #30 on: July 19, 2016, 05:45:20 PM »
By the way, I know this seems like your thread, but I bet I'm not the only one who enjoys reading your experiences :)
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Re: HTC Vive (The Discussion Thread!)
« Reply #31 on: July 26, 2016, 09:42:28 PM »
Wow, I didn't expect this to happen this fast.

There's already a company that's figured out how to do real time facial tracking in VR (they're specifically targeting phone based VR headsets such as Gear VR). It's actually a fairly straightforward system.

I wrote about this same technology in my recent novel, and it's sometimes freaky how fast real technology is catching up to my science fiction. :0

30 second facial tracking demonstration (just the tech)
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1n_y4cIgIM" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1n_y4cIgIM</a>

Longer "Marketing Reel" of Veeso tech
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMgoypPBEgw" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMgoypPBEgw</a>

As far as the marketing reel goes, they're doing some deceptive things - for instance, you'll see people flailing their arms and body, and having that movement reflect in the VR avatars. That doesn't actually happen with their tech - you need far more sensors for that.

However, the facial tracking stuff is legit, and very cool.

Also, I may have some videos of Raw Data (the awesome game where you shoot/slice robots!) up tonight or tomorrow.
T. Eric Bakutis: 2014 Compton Crook Finalist for Glyphbinder

Unrelated best quote ever: "The president has been kidnapped by ninjas. Are you a bad enough dude to rescue the president?"

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Re: HTC Vive (The Discussion Thread!)
« Reply #32 on: July 28, 2016, 03:41:03 AM »
Here's some videos showing off Raw Data, which is one of the most polished and enjoyable "wave shooters" I've played yet. Some highlights:

- This game uses a technique called "inverse kinetics" to do what it can to render your forearms, in addition to your hands. It takes three data points - your hands (from both remotes) and the headset, and tries to match where your forearms are. It works a good bit of the time! (and sometimes, it freaks out a bit :p)

- In the gun video, I'm dual wielding since I've unlocked a second pistol, but you start with only one.  You must reload by grabbing a clip from your left hip and loading it into the gun in your right hand.

- You can punch robots if you want! In the gun video, I'll holster my guns at one point and take out some robots with my fists. You basically have to wait for them to swing, physically duck under the punch, then uppercut them.

- With the sword, you can do basic one-handed swings, more powerful two-handed swings by gripping the hilt with both hands (you place your Left Vive remote beneath your right), and also toss it. Once tossed, you can guide it to a small degree by moving your hand.

- You can deflect laser bolts back at robots and drones with the sword too!

- You can also physically dodge bolts (by moving in real life) if you're quick enough.

Shooting and Punching!

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wBLp6YHql8" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wBLp6YHql8</a>

Slashing with a Sword!

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5b_oRpybiac" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5b_oRpybiac</a>
« Last Edit: July 28, 2016, 03:46:51 AM by tebakutis »
T. Eric Bakutis: 2014 Compton Crook Finalist for Glyphbinder

Unrelated best quote ever: "The president has been kidnapped by ninjas. Are you a bad enough dude to rescue the president?"

Offline tebakutis

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Re: HTC Vive (The Discussion Thread!)
« Reply #33 on: July 28, 2016, 05:01:35 AM »
And one final video of A Chair in a Room (a psychological horror title for the HTC Vive).

This game takes an interesting approach. Most games either lock you in place, or let you move around a small space and teleport. A Chair in a Room instead asks that you have a minimum space available (2.5m x 2.5m) and ensures all gameplay takes place in that space. Using tricks of perspective, the rooms appear much larger than they actually are.

So in this case, all movement in the real world is matched with movement in the game. You walk around these rooms, pick up objects, open and close cabinets, and so on. And all the while, the game is screwing with you.

It's hands down the scariest experience I've had in VR and also one of the most immersive. It's right up there with Call of the Starseed, which remains slightly better, overall ... but only just.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3GVBKd8x1s" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3GVBKd8x1s</a>
T. Eric Bakutis: 2014 Compton Crook Finalist for Glyphbinder

Unrelated best quote ever: "The president has been kidnapped by ninjas. Are you a bad enough dude to rescue the president?"

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Re: HTC Vive (The Discussion Thread!)
« Reply #34 on: August 08, 2016, 08:01:39 PM »
This might be of interest to @m3mnoch and any other fellow game devs. The teleportation system Neat Corporation used in Budget Cuts was one of my favorites, and this article explains why. It also might be an interesting read for people interested in game design in general.

http://uploadvr.com/budget-cuts-portal-locomotion-design/

If I get time this weekend, I might put up some videos from Vanishing Realms (essentially, Legend of Zelda in VR).

EDIT: And since I mentioned it, I'll also see if I can get some video up from Budget Cuts, since that's such a well-designed and interesting stealth game.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2016, 08:05:04 PM by tebakutis »
T. Eric Bakutis: 2014 Compton Crook Finalist for Glyphbinder

Unrelated best quote ever: "The president has been kidnapped by ninjas. Are you a bad enough dude to rescue the president?"

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Re: HTC Vive (The Discussion Thread!)
« Reply #35 on: October 07, 2016, 04:29:34 PM »
Not Vive related, but more of a general demo of how fast social VR tech is developing. This was demonstrated at the Oculus Connect convention recently. Basically, we're already to the point where we can create cartoonish avatars that approximate our real-life appearances. For those who haven't experienced social VR, the sense of talking to a real person is impressive even with a block avatar ... something like this ratchets that up significantly!

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuIgyKLPt3s" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuIgyKLPt3s</a>
T. Eric Bakutis: 2014 Compton Crook Finalist for Glyphbinder

Unrelated best quote ever: "The president has been kidnapped by ninjas. Are you a bad enough dude to rescue the president?"

Offline tebakutis

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Re: HTC Vive (The Discussion Thread!)
« Reply #36 on: October 15, 2016, 04:03:16 AM »
So on a more wacky note, after reading about a guy who put together a 1 hour workout routine using the Vive (basically, just playing VR games that require a high level of movement) and lost a bunch of weight in a month, I decided to give that a try myself. My wife wanted to upgrade her Fitbit (a nice little device that gamifies fitness) so we agreed I would take her old one, and she would upgrade.

Full disclosure: I'm actually rather slim, but have gained a little tummy weight as I edge toward 40, and I want to make clear his routine was about slimming off about 10 pounds around his waist, not losing a dramatic amount of weight. I'm going for the same.

Anyway, the Fitbit app takes data such as your height, weight, and resting heart rate, and then uses standard formulas to ballpark how many calories you burn each day. You manually enter calories for food you eat, and it tracks calories in/calories out (in a very game-like interface, hence the gameification). So, for this past week, I've been spending anywhere from 30 minutes to an hour punching music in Audioshield on one of the harder difficulty settings, which requires you to do some very rapid punching and move as well.

According to Fitbit, a one hour minute session of Audioshield at a high difficulty level burns, on average, 400-450 calories. Tonight, for example, I did 1 hour of music punching and burned 430 calories. Unlike other aerobic workouts I've tried (such as stationary bikes or stairsteppers) the time flies by because I am listening to some of my favorite fast moving songs while punching along with the beat. Just punching your way through Through the Fire and Flames (by Dragonforce) will easily burn 75+ calories on its own.

I've heard there's other games that are even more demanding (Thrill of the Fight, for example, is a boxing game that is supposed to burn alot of calories, and Holopoint is a bow and arrow + dodging game that does the same). I will probably pick those up soon and compare how fast they burn to Audioshield, for some variety. But, as much as I've talked about the various reasons VR is amazing, using a VR headset (and games) as a fitness device had never occurred to me until recently.

In comparison to using a stationary bike or treadmill while watching a distant TV (boring!) doing lots of rapid activity in a VR game is fun! If this trend continues, I think our future gamers are going to be more fit than our current ones. :)
T. Eric Bakutis: 2014 Compton Crook Finalist for Glyphbinder

Unrelated best quote ever: "The president has been kidnapped by ninjas. Are you a bad enough dude to rescue the president?"

Offline tebakutis

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Re: HTC Vive (The Discussion Thread!)
« Reply #37 on: November 30, 2016, 06:00:05 AM »
Since I hadn't posted one of these in awhile, here's a video of Elite Dangerous and their recently added planetary landings. While it is a sitdown experience (standing/roomscale experiences remain the most immersive) it's still absolutely one of the best space simulations out there. I really do get the sense that I'm in the cockpit of my spaceship or SRV ... that I'm flying out in space, essentially.

In this video you can see me launching my Cobra (a hybrid fighter/freighter) from a large spaceport, hopping into Supercruise to visit a new system, flying to a planet, and then seamlessly landing from orbit on the planet, hopping out in my lander, and going for a drive. I've been playing spacesims for forever, and it's really impressive to me how many little touches Frontier have managed to cram into their game.

Also, their sound designer deserves a medal. Everything just sounds *good*.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFJwQcjQyGk" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFJwQcjQyGk</a>
T. Eric Bakutis: 2014 Compton Crook Finalist for Glyphbinder

Unrelated best quote ever: "The president has been kidnapped by ninjas. Are you a bad enough dude to rescue the president?"

Offline tebakutis

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Re: HTC Vive (The Discussion Thread!)
« Reply #38 on: December 03, 2016, 03:44:05 AM »
Bonus video! In case you wonder how you actually make cardio fun and burn calories, you play music like this and punch it for an hour (side note: I've currently got the top score of all Audioshield players, for this song, on the highest difficulty, of all Vive players in the world) I'm sure that'll change soon...

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rv5MsU1BtY4" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rv5MsU1BtY4</a>
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Unrelated best quote ever: "The president has been kidnapped by ninjas. Are you a bad enough dude to rescue the president?"

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Re: HTC Vive (The Discussion Thread!)
« Reply #39 on: December 06, 2016, 02:42:38 AM »
I recently picked up a game called Trickster VR which is both polished and fun. It's still in early access, but I like what they're doing with it. You have a combination of weapons at your disposal (a sword + shield, a bow and arrow, and throwing knives) and fight various types of orcs on randomly generated levels.

While there are a set number of mission "types", the layout of the level changes for each playthrough, as do the enemies you'll encounter. For instance, in this video, I had never encountered the guys with giant shields before (it was only my fourth mission) so had to figure out how to beat them. Also, this was the first time I saw a berserker. As soon as that dude turned red, I knew I better not let him hit me.

I've clipped some brief parts of the video (the loading screen and some travel time where I'm just zipping around) and kept the good stuff. Needless to say, this is a bit more intense when there's an actual six-foot tall orc in your face swinging an axe at you. Finally, keep an eye out for the "THIS IS SPARTA!" moment about midway through.

Good stuff.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RszEihooM7A" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RszEihooM7A</a>
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Unrelated best quote ever: "The president has been kidnapped by ninjas. Are you a bad enough dude to rescue the president?"

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Re: HTC Vive (The Discussion Thread!)
« Reply #40 on: December 08, 2016, 07:49:47 PM »
This is a fascinating article covering how two guys filmed an incredibly cool "live-action" virtual reality trailer for one of the more popular Vive games, Space Pirate Trainer, using an inverse kinemtic system and using one of the Vive controllers as a stand-in for a digital camera.

http://www.polygon.com/virtual-reality/2016/12/5/13799662/how-to-shoot-the-best-vr-trailer

The article is worth reading, but if you're just interested in seeing the resulting trailer, it's below. It does a really impressive job of capturing what it *feels* like to play SPT ... better than videos captured directly from a VR headset manage to do, IMO. This is how I imagine I look when I'm shooting bots, though I'm terrible at dodging lasers, since my available walking around space is rather small.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfa9Jqm34b0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfa9Jqm34b0</a>
T. Eric Bakutis: 2014 Compton Crook Finalist for Glyphbinder

Unrelated best quote ever: "The president has been kidnapped by ninjas. Are you a bad enough dude to rescue the president?"

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Re: HTC Vive (The Discussion Thread!)
« Reply #41 on: December 18, 2016, 09:49:41 PM »
I recently downloaded a game called "Bullet Sorrow" and it's actually pretty fun. It's a wave shooter (like many games on the Vive) but has a good presentation, incorporates some different weapons and "bullet time", and also makes you use cover (alot!) which means lots of squats. It's another case where playing games helps you burn calories!

I tried to highlight all the different game features while cutting out the boring parts, so you'll see more than a few cuts in this. The coolest interaction is the shotgun - while you dual wield everything else, when you pick that up, your non-dominant hand (in this case, my left) becomes the front of the shotgun, and your dominant hand (right) becomes the back. So you have to position your hands as if holding a long shotgun to aim it, and "pump" it between each shot. Feels very visceral.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1I7Pr88SS0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1I7Pr88SS0</a>
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Unrelated best quote ever: "The president has been kidnapped by ninjas. Are you a bad enough dude to rescue the president?"

Offline tebakutis

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Re: HTC Vive (The Discussion Thread!)
« Reply #42 on: December 29, 2016, 05:09:11 AM »
Spent a little Christmas money on some new Vive games today and found some really fun ones. One of those is Sairento VR, which doesn't tell you anything about it. Basically, you're a cyborg ninja, and you kill other cyborg ninjas. They could have called it "Cyborg Ninja Killer" and I'd still have bought it.

In addition to good ol' ninja killing, there's a RPG-lite element where you earn skill points and money and collect relics, then buy new weapons and improve your stats. There's not much there, but since the game is in Early Access, I don't expect there to be. At least they've shown they have the systems in place.

You can see some gameplay below. You actually have three weapons to choose from to start (though you can buy more once you get enough money) but only two hands. I prefer the gun/sword approach so I have my melee and ranged options both ready.

Primary movement is standard roomscale teleport - you can walk around freely in your playspace, and teleport that playspace around the environment. It actually feels very "cyborg ninja-esque" to teleport around, and it's super easy on your stomach (no motion sickness).

EDIT: I should also mention that in addition to warping, you can slow down time. By combining warps with time slows, it lets you dispatch your opponents with ease.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCvuJBuqRlA" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCvuJBuqRlA</a>

As wave shooters (one of the most common genres in VR right now) go, it's enjoyable!

« Last Edit: December 29, 2016, 05:11:03 AM by tebakutis »
T. Eric Bakutis: 2014 Compton Crook Finalist for Glyphbinder

Unrelated best quote ever: "The president has been kidnapped by ninjas. Are you a bad enough dude to rescue the president?"

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Re: HTC Vive (The Discussion Thread!)
« Reply #43 on: December 29, 2016, 11:16:28 AM »
Serious question. How are you walking around? Game controllers? Does doing a "made-up" thing with your hands make the visual immersion less impactful? I think about the blue screen suits (?) they have for motion capture. How much of that is coming to VR?
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Re: HTC Vive (The Discussion Thread!)
« Reply #44 on: December 29, 2016, 03:35:01 PM »
Serious question. How are you walking around? Game controllers? Does doing a "made-up" thing with your hands make the visual immersion less impactful?

Hmm, I guess it never occurred to me to explain that! :) Most games offer a combination of teleport movement and real physical movement. I'll try to explain it.



This is what the handheld Vive controller looks like. You hold two of these, one in each hand. Each of these controllers has cameras built in which (like the headset) can detect a 3d grid of lasers generated by base stations which reside at two opposite corners of your playspace.

Imagine a cube. The basestations exist at opposite corners of the cube. You stand inside that cube (mine measures 2.5m by 2.5m) and any real world movements you make within that cube are tracked and rendered in real time in the virtual environment. The cube is, essentially, your holodeck.

While standing in that cube and wearing the headset, I see the Vive controllers in the virtual space in exactly the same place they are in the physical world. If I turn the controller sideways, it turns sideways in virtual reality. As I wave it around, move it, set it down or pick it up, those physical movements match precisely with what I see in my headset.

Similarly, all physical movements of my head (looking around, up, down, moving forward and back) are also passed in realtime (there's latency, but it's so small as to be invisible) and update my view of the virtual world. This provides the extremely convincing illusion that I am existing inside a virtual space.

Now, as to movement, I actually move - physically. So long as I remain in my cube, I can actually physically walk around, using my legs, and my movements match precisely in VR. I can turn, crouch, and take a few steps in any direction at any time. That's what you see me doing here.

In cases like Sairento VR and others, you have a virtual playspace that is much, much larger than your 2.5m x 2.5m cube. A decent example would be a hamster ball, if you've ever seen a hamster roll around in one of those. The ball itself never changes size, and the hamster can move freely inside that ball. They roll the ball around to move around a space much larger than the ball, but never leave it.

That's what movement in VR is like. In order to teleport around as I do in this video, I hit the largest round button on the front of the controller and use it to create the arced move reticle you see me using. I move my hand controller physically to move the arc then, when the arc is placed where I want to "throw" my cube, I release the button.

My cube then warps to that new location, adjusting the position of my hamster ball so I can access a new part of the virtual world. That's the most natural way to move in VR (for me) and pretty much eliminates motion sickness, though they are some people who prefer to slide about using the touchpads (imagine zipping around on a segway you can't see, and you'll have some idea what that's like) but that personally gives me (and many others) motion sickness.

What makes the illusion of roomscale VR (as opposed to sitting VR) so convincing is the fact that the movements you see inside your headset match precisely with your movements in the real world. When someone shoots at me, I can physically step or bend sideways in real space to avoid it. I do the same thing to look around a corner ... I physically lean out to look around the corner.

When I swing my sword at a ninja, I'm actually swinging the remote as it were a sword (which as you can imagine, must look hilarious in the real world). When I aim my gun, I'm aiming my remote, and when I fire, I'm squeezing the trigger on the bottom. The "grip" buttons on the side allow me to pick up or drop weapons, and the weight of the remote and the feedback it provides (primarily vibration) give me the illusion of recoil from my gun, or the impact of my sword against another sword.

When all of these things are firing together, it makes the world feel real. Everything I'm doing in the real world, I'm doing in the virtual world. So sword fighting? It feels like sword fighting.

I think about the blue screen suits (?) they have for motion capture. How much of that is coming to VR?

A company named PrioVR (among others) is actually working on a full motion capture suit with multiple sensors that will be sensitive enough to actually work for professional motion capture. These suits will also be useful for showing your body movements to others in social VR experiences, like Altspace and High Fidelity. Right now, I can socialize with other people and see them react (I see their hand controller and head movements as they do them) and there's already sensors (like Leap Motion) which capture the movement of individual fingers, allowing you to play rock paper scissors with other people, or (if you're rude) flip them off. :p

EDIT: Here's a good video showing off PrioVR's suit (in progress) along with what the wearer is doing in the real world.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnDJXYjFZUg" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnDJXYjFZUg</a>

Basically, there's a slew of tech coming down the pipe for walking (360 treadmills!), grabbing things (gloves with an exoskeleton that locks when you pick up objects, simulating physicality) and tons of other neat stuff. It's a real gold rush right now with tons of people trying tons of different things, but it's not outrageous to say that in 10 years, we will have advanced to the point where the headsets are completely wireless, no heavier than a pair of ski goggles, and we have full immersion suits that simulate touch, heat, cold, and other things. We're not moving toward The Matrix, necessarily (at least not until we hook up our brains) ... but Lawnmover Man is already just about here.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2016, 03:38:12 PM by tebakutis »
T. Eric Bakutis: 2014 Compton Crook Finalist for Glyphbinder

Unrelated best quote ever: "The president has been kidnapped by ninjas. Are you a bad enough dude to rescue the president?"

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