November 17, 2019, 12:57:32 AM

Author Topic: Game of Thrones season 8 (with spoilers)  (Read 6912 times)

Offline ScarletBea

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Re: Game of Thrones season 8 (with spoilers)
« Reply #60 on: May 22, 2019, 08:12:25 AM »
As so many people are saying, it's the writing.

And more importantly, it's the sheer difference between the first 4-5 seasons and the last 2.
If it had started like it ended (fluffy, obvious, in-your-face) I don't think there would have been such a backlash, as "that's how the series is": this is like going into a 5-star hotel for a week, and during the first 4-5 days you get all the posh stuff but on the last 2 days they stick you in the basement rooms, with just the odd foray into the posh areas ::)
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Offline Magnus Hedén

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Re: Game of Thrones season 8 (with spoilers)
« Reply #61 on: May 22, 2019, 09:49:25 AM »
[cynical rant]
I remember the moment I lost faith. It was when they'd spent most of season 7 making it look like Sansa and Arya were turning against each other only to go "SURPRISE!" right at the end, holding back the fact that they were working together against Littlefinger until the last second. It is the cheapest kind of storytelling trick used to create artificial tension and mystery (by hiding things from us that the protagonists/MCs are aware of), reserved for those who are incapable of creating mystery or surprise organically. I'm flabbergasted a script like that passed through what I assume to be a ton of QA.

Anyway, the series has ended. Things happened. I stopped caring. I'm not so bloated with entitlement that I'm signing polls to have the thing remade. But I AM disappointed, and deeply so. There could have been so much emotional power in those last few episodes. And as I watched, I felt nothing except for a malicious kind of glee as Dany burned everything down because it reflected how I felt about the series,  and because I knew it would drive a large part of the fanbase bonkers.

I hope someone learns something from this, but my hopes aren't exactly high as Benioff and Weiss have now been hired to write Star Wars...? I don't get it. I really don't.
[/cynical rant]
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Offline Peat

Re: Game of Thrones season 8 (with spoilers)
« Reply #62 on: May 22, 2019, 11:44:37 AM »
Honestly, I don't really get why the petition is entitled (although I know so many see it that way and wish it didn't exist because I think it lets people dismiss fan criticisms too easily).

Most of the time people put it that way (not wanting to put words in your mouth Magnus, just talking about the argument as I've seen it) they say "Its a product. Watch it if you like it, don't if you don't".

Except... if I order a burrito without cheese and it comes with cheese, it's going back to be remade (and that's behaviour chefs encourage). If I buy trousers online that say 34 and are really a 30, they go back. If a computer game comes with a bunch of bugs and there's no sign of a patch, I return it. Etc.etc. The ability to return and replace products that do not do what they say on the box is a key part of most product consumer relationships. So what gives TV shows a pass on the idea that if its bad, we'd want it replaced? The fact its never been done before? The fact its borderline impossible is a good one but I'm not sure that changes the moral rights of the consumer.

Does it change because its art, because its a story? Waterstones says no. They say they'll take that book back if its done within 30 days, has proof of purchase and is in pristine condition. Of course, one can't really give back Game of Thrones in the same way but again, we seem to be in the same basic paradigm. Disappointed GoT fans are consumers who cannot return the item or receive a refund in the normal way they'd do with the majority of why they consume - an action nobody would question in another type of transactions - what other recourse do they have other than demanding a remake?

And if it does change because its art... then there's a two way street, things are expected of the creators as well as the fans, and those things weren't delivered.
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Offline S. K. Inkslinger

Re: Game of Thrones season 8 (with spoilers)
« Reply #63 on: May 22, 2019, 12:55:12 PM »
Well, I have watched season 8 only up to the third episode, but already knew most of the horrible horrible things that have happened from the internet. I don't think I'll even bother watching at this point and just pretend that this season doesn't exist  (Dang, and I've already bought several expensive posters for the show too  ???).

Offline Brand J Alexander

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Re: Game of Thrones season 8 (with spoilers)
« Reply #64 on: May 22, 2019, 03:51:51 PM »
Well, I have watched season 8 only up to the third episode, but already knew most of the horrible horrible things that have happened from the internet. I don't think I'll even bother watching at this point and just pretend that this season doesn't exist  (Dang, and I've already bought several expensive posters for the show too  ???).

After finishing the show, I've decided to edit the story in my mind. When the wall fell in Season 7, everything ended and the Night King won. There was no season 8. All men must die. And they did. The end.
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Offline Magnus Hedén

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Re: Game of Thrones season 8 (with spoilers)
« Reply #65 on: May 22, 2019, 04:52:26 PM »
Seriously? You're comparing a novel or a TV show you don't like with a pair of pants that don't fit or a burrito without cheese?

Please explain to me how demanding a TV series be remade or a novel rewritten is even remotely comparable to changing to a different size of pants or asking for the cheese you ordered.
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Offline J.R. Darewood

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Re: Game of Thrones season 8 (with spoilers)
« Reply #66 on: May 22, 2019, 05:03:44 PM »
@Peat  I agree with the art sentiment when it comes to creative direction but I think here we're talking about skill

Season 1-5 vs S7&8 side by side comparison:




Offline Peat

Re: Game of Thrones season 8 (with spoilers)
« Reply #67 on: May 22, 2019, 05:16:18 PM »
Seriously? You're comparing a novel or a TV show you don't like with a pair of pants that don't fit or a burrito without cheese?

Please explain to me how demanding a TV series be remade or a novel rewritten is even remotely comparable to changing to a different size of pants or asking for the cheese you ordered.

Then respond to what I said about what applies if the rules of expectation between producer and consumer change if its art because we give special rules to art. What are the expectations on the creator? Martin said he believes he owes fans his best work. Was that the show writers' best work?
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Offline Magnus Hedén

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Re: Game of Thrones season 8 (with spoilers)
« Reply #68 on: May 22, 2019, 05:57:25 PM »
That is, of course, impossible to say. But under the circumstances, I think it would be hard to cram all that character development into 6ish hours of TV while also showing the big battles and bombastic scenes. In season 1 we skip past the battles, now they take up full episodes.

I would have liked to have seen Dany's change more clearly and convincingly. I would have liked for a lot of things to have been done differently. But they weren't, and here we are. I don't pretend that my liking the books and the early seasons gives me any right to claim how the later seasons should have been executed.

And I don't begin to pretend that I know the last bit about writing, directing, or producing a massive TV show with even more massive expectations on it -- all on a deadline. All I know is writing is damn difficult, and the writers here don't have the choice of working on the script for eight years (plus) until it's the best it can be, like GRRM has chosen to do (which is the context of his comment about owing his fans his best work).
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Offline Magnus Hedén

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Offline Neveesandeh

Re: Game of Thrones season 8 (with spoilers)
« Reply #70 on: May 22, 2019, 06:04:42 PM »
I was talking with my flatmate about the ending a few hours ago, and he said he quite liked it. He thinks it was pretty bad, but he argued that Game of Thrones has been pretty bad since season five, and by the standards of post season five Game of Thrones it was pretty solid.

His point being that if you saw the early seasons and the later seasons as two seperate television series with two very different levels of quality, then season eight was a good enough ending for the later seasons.

Offline Nora

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Re: Game of Thrones season 8 (with spoilers)
« Reply #71 on: May 22, 2019, 06:21:57 PM »
Reading this thread is gold to me  ;D

I've been watching videos like this one : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8U6kjqLkJQ

to catch up with the final events. I see everyone is mixed between rage and despair... And I've got to say, I abandoned the series several seasons ago. As a matter of fact, I dropped it when they killed off the little frog guy who takes Bran with his sister to the north? And the weird wight shows up on his dead moose. None of that was happening in the series, and since it was nearing the end of the support material, I assume they were gearing towards deviating to their own storytelling and I just plain lost interest.

I'm very happy to consider this tv show as half canon and half fanfic. Fanfic isn't bad, it's just not for everyone.

Now to hope that GRRM returns to his own storyline now that the TV show wouldn't be doing any competition.
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Offline Neveesandeh

Re: Game of Thrones season 8 (with spoilers)
« Reply #72 on: May 22, 2019, 08:03:40 PM »
Reading this thread is gold to me  ;D

I've been watching videos like this one : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8U6kjqLkJQ

to catch up with the final events. I see everyone is mixed between rage and despair... And I've got to say, I abandoned the series several seasons ago. As a matter of fact, I dropped it when they killed off the little frog guy who takes Bran with his sister to the north? And the weird wight shows up on his dead moose. None of that was happening in the series, and since it was nearing the end of the support material, I assume they were gearing towards deviating to their own storytelling and I just plain lost interest.

I'm very happy to consider this tv show as half canon and half fanfic. Fanfic isn't bad, it's just not for everyone.

Now to hope that GRRM returns to his own storyline now that the TV show wouldn't be doing any competition.

Pretty much the same for me. I started with the books and the TV series diverged too much too soon for me to get all that interested in it.

Offline J.R. Darewood

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Re: Game of Thrones season 8 (with spoilers)
« Reply #73 on: May 23, 2019, 01:57:57 AM »
As a matter of fact, I dropped it when they killed off the little frog guy who takes Bran with his sister to the north? And the weird wight shows up on his dead moose. .

Jojen!!! He's my favorite character in all the books. Yeah they royally f*ed up Brans storyline, when they didn't just skip it altogether. I don't think we'll ever get an explanation of Coldhands. And cutting out Lady Stoneheart was another disappointing choice around that time. But I loved jojen :( too bad they screwed that part all up

Offline S. K. Inkslinger

Re: Game of Thrones season 8 (with spoilers)
« Reply #74 on: May 23, 2019, 08:00:40 AM »
Well, I have watched season 8 only up to the third episode, but already knew most of the horrible horrible things that have happened from the internet. I don't think I'll even bother watching at this point and just pretend that this season doesn't exist  (Dang, and I've already bought several expensive posters for the show too  ???).

After finishing the show, I've decided to edit the story in my mind. When the wall fell in Season 7, everything ended and the Night King won. There was no season 8. All men must die. And they did. The end.

Hey, that's actually really nice. I would actually prefer an ending like that than the horrible last season we got, and it would let me part with the series in peace. It had a nice message too, "Death come for us all in the end, no matter high or low." Thanks Alexander!  :D

PS. I also stumbled across this Witcher 3 x Game of Thrones fanfiction, which as far as I've read is probably even better than the last two seasons of the show that we got.