October 18, 2019, 09:57:12 AM

Author Topic: Game of Thrones season 8 (with spoilers)  (Read 6151 times)

Offline ScarletBea

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Game of Thrones season 8 (with spoilers)
« on: April 22, 2019, 03:45:18 PM »
I've just finished watching episode 2, and there have been so many great scenes in these two...

I loved Brienne becoming a Ser!
Dany and Sansa chatting and almost friends, after the clash of last week... until the future of the North is mentioned.
All the conversations before the battle...
And the big revelation of Jon, of course - will that make a difference to the battle?
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Offline tebakutis

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Re: Game of Thrones season 8 (with spoilers)
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2019, 11:48:57 PM »
I've loved the first two eps, particularly all the character development and interactions in Episode 2. This is our chance to say goodbye to these characters before they all die messily in ep 3. BTW, my writer sense is telling me ep 3 will be a doozy. Here's some random predictions:

Spoiler for Hiden:
- I think the Night King eats it at the end of episode 3, after his forces decimate the Winterfell defenders. The Night King is dead, but now they must face Cersei's fresh army with a significantly weakened and degraded force, which makes them desperate.

- At least 50% of our cast will die to defeat the Night King. Deaths I'd expect to see: Brienne (obvs), Pod, Beric, Jorah, Grey Worm, and probably Dolorous Ed.

- Unexpected death: Samwell. I *really* wouldn't be surprised if Samwell dies (likely while defending the smallfolk in the crypt, which the Night King's forces get into somehow). Why Samwell? First, GoT loves to do shocking deaths, and Samwell has always been "safe". Secondly (and this is the bigger one) Samwell is the *ONLY* character who has seen PROOF Jon is Aegon Targaryn (he got the books from the Citadel). Bran knows it, but Bran's only proof is his visions. So if Samwell dies, then all the sudden they have a MUCH larger opportunity to have Dany ignore Jon's claim to the throne (and drive a wedge to them because of it) because the only person with proof isn't around anymore. So yeah. Sam dies. We'll see if I'm right. :)

- Finally, Arya kills the Night King. Why? Because they have spent TWO eps where they've made a BIG DEAL out of the special, weird dragonglass weapon she asked Gendry to craft for her. No other characters get this treatment, but they have referenced Arya's weapon request (and Gendry building it) multiple times. This screams to me that this is the writer's room making sure the audience KNOWS this weapon exists, because it'll be how the Night King dies (and he won't expect Arya to do it). So that's my last prediction.

We'll see Sunday if any of these are right. :)

Offline J.R. Darewood

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Re: Game of Thrones season 8 (with spoilers)
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2019, 11:59:04 PM »
I've loved the first two eps, particularly all the character development and interactions in Episode 2. This is our chance to say goodbye to these characters before they all die messily in ep 3. BTW, my writer sense is telling me ep 3 will be a doozy. Here's some random predictions:

Spoiler for Hiden:
- I think the Night King eats it at the end of episode 3, after his forces decimate the Winterfell defenders. The Night King is dead, but now they must face Cersei's fresh army with a significantly weakened and degraded force, which makes them desperate.

- At least 50% of our cast will die to defeat the Night King. Deaths I'd expect to see: Brienne (obvs), Pod, Beric, Jorah, Grey Worm, and probably Dolorous Ed.

- Unexpected death: Samwell. I *really* wouldn't be surprised if Samwell dies (likely while defending the smallfolk in the crypt, which the Night King's forces get into somehow). Why Samwell? First, GoT loves to do shocking deaths, and Samwell has always been "safe". Secondly (and this is the bigger one) Samwell is the *ONLY* character who has seen PROOF Jon is Aegon Targaryn (he got the books from the Citadel). Bran knows it, but Bran's only proof is his visions. So if Samwell dies, then all the sudden they have a MUCH larger opportunity to have Dany ignore Jon's claim to the throne (and drive a wedge to them because of it) because the only person with proof isn't around anymore. So yeah. Sam dies. We'll see if I'm right. :)

- Finally, Arya kills the Night King. Why? Because they have spent TWO eps where they've made a BIG DEAL out of the special, weird dragonglass weapon she asked Gendry to craft for her. No other characters get this treatment, but they have referenced Arya's weapon request (and Gendry building it) multiple times. This screams to me that this is the writer's room making sure the audience KNOWS this weapon exists, because it'll be how the Night King dies (and he won't expect Arya to do it). So that's my last prediction.

We'll see Sunday if any of these are right. :)

I disagree on one point

Spoiler for Hiden:
The central narrative from shot #1 hinges on the dead.  The night king needs to somehow be worked into the battle with cercei for the narrative to be wrapped up cleanly otherwise the battle for the iron throne will feel like a weird epilogue instead of a climax.  The night king can't die until the final ep!

Offline tebakutis

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Re: Game of Thrones season 8 (with spoilers)
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2019, 04:36:56 PM »
Do not click the tag until you've seen the episode. Seriously! DO NOT OPEN unless you've seen Episode 3 in its entirety!

Spoiler for Hiden:
Well, I got most of it right. :)

I didn't expect Brienne or Sam to live though! Good for them. Given all the chaos that unfolded, the body count was actually a lot smaller than I expected. Among the named characters, we lost Dolorous Ed, Beric, Jorah, Theon, Melisandre, and maybe Gendry (unclear) and ... did I miss anyone? I think they also lost one more dragon (since only one showed up at the end when Dany was mourning Jorah) but that still leaves one more.

And other than the obvious (Jon, Dany) it looks like Brienne, Jaime, Pod, Sansa, Tyrion, Bran, Sam, Varys, Davos, and even Grey Worm survived. I guess they want to do more with those characters in the final few eps.

But yup. The northern army is trashed, and now they have to face a fresh army of Lannisters, the Golden Company, and the Kraken's navy. That's going to be interesting...

Also the way my girl Anya did that knife catch and kidneyshotted the Night King to death was epic.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2019, 04:04:25 AM by tebakutis »

Offline J.R. Darewood

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Re: Game of Thrones season 8 (with spoilers)
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2019, 10:36:29 AM »
Damn you for being mostly right Teb!!!

Spoiler for Hiden:
I gotta say I'm pretty disappointed. I mean the series is called "A song of fire and ice" not "a song of Circe and Jon Snow"

I was also a little disappointed by the battlle (and this season as a whole).  It didn't feel as well put together and exciting as Hardhome, and not as desperate as Battle of the Bastards. Keeping the white walkers out of it left no back and forth whatsoever, Bran just warged away for no damn reason and idk tbh I felt like it was the least climactic of all the battles so far. Lady Mormont being a badass was pretty cool, but the whole killing the giant thing seemed contrived, as did the library stuff.  A lot of it felt like cookie cutter thrills you might see on a ride or something.
Except for that last sequence where Jon is running through the castle watching everyone else barely surviving and of course the Arya vs. the Night King bit was awesome. So does that mean Arya is Azor Ahai? Mellisandre dying was also pointless and stupid. Grrrr.

Meanwhile it sounds like GRRM doesn't even know what the show's ending will be, and it might be that they made some departures from his notes on purpose (to help keep the book a surprise?).
https://ew.com/tv/2019/03/06/george-rr-martin-game-of-thrones-season-8-interview/
« Last Edit: April 29, 2019, 10:42:26 AM by J.R. Darewood »

Offline tebakutis

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Re: Game of Thrones season 8 (with spoilers)
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2019, 03:54:12 PM »
Damn you for being mostly right Teb!!!

Spoiler for Hiden:
I gotta say I'm pretty disappointed. I mean the series is called "A song of fire and ice" not "a song of Circe and Jon Snow"

I was also a little disappointed by the battlle (and this season as a whole).  It didn't feel as well put together and exciting as Hardhome, and not as desperate as Battle of the Bastards. Keeping the white walkers out of it left no back and forth whatsoever, Bran just warged away for no damn reason and idk tbh I felt like it was the least climactic of all the battles so far. Lady Mormont being a badass was pretty cool, but the whole killing the giant thing seemed contrived, as did the library stuff.  A lot of it felt like cookie cutter thrills you might see on a ride or something.
Except for that last sequence where Jon is running through the castle watching everyone else barely surviving and of course the Arya vs. the Night King bit was awesome. So does that mean Arya is Azor Ahai? Mellisandre dying was also pointless and stupid. Grrrr.

Meanwhile it sounds like GRRM doesn't even know what the show's ending will be, and it might be that they made some departures from his notes on purpose (to help keep the book a surprise?).
https://ew.com/tv/2019/03/06/george-rr-martin-game-of-thrones-season-8-interview/

Mor spoilery talk!

Spoiler for Hiden:
Quote
I gotta say I'm pretty disappointed. I mean the series is called "A song of fire and ice" not "a song of Circe and Jon Snow"

I actually disagree with the thought that the series was about the Night King vs the living. Martin's goal has always struck me as wanting to focus on people, rather than the supernatural, and to veer away from the cliche. I think the focus on Cersei vs Jon vs Dany vs everyone has always been the goal, with the Night King as a side issue.

The army of "good" vs the supernatural big bad is at the center of the vast majority of fantasy novels (it has been since LotR) and, with the full disclosure that I've written my books with that in mind as well, it's can be cliche. To me, the Night King and his invading army of the dead was always another detail that caused tension in the conflict between the living characters (in addition to all the other horrific stuff she's done, Cersei left the north to rot and face the Night King alone) as opposed to the actual focus of the books.

I also like that, at least as it stands now, the "victory" at Winterfell, despite being massive, still accomplished very little to further the character's goals, which feels very grimdark. Yes, they killed the Night King and stopped his undead invasion, but they lost a huge amount of people and are very much on the ropes in regards to taking care of Cersei. Yes, main characters lived, but a ridiculous number of extras died ... they lost maybe 2/3s of the Unsullied, like the entirety of the Dothraki, and another dragon.

Worse yet, rather than cheering them as heroes, the people of the south (and the Lannisters) can now deny the Night King ever existed, so no accolades await the surviving northerners when they head south. I am 100% certain Cersei will now claim the Night King was a threat Jon Snow made up to try to scare the south into an alliance, and she is abundantly pleased that now she doesn't have to deal with it and they bloodied the hell out of her enemies.

So yeah, I wasn't surprised the Night King went down at all. Every giant event in Game of Thrones has seemed focused on making the conflict between the great houses more bitter, and the Night King's victory or survival would have actually eventually *united* the survivors, even if they didn't live.

George R. R. Martin doesn't do people being united. At least in these books, he seems to think it's far more interesting when people with complex motivations (beyond "Exterminate the living!") are at each other's throats. :)

Offline ScarletBea

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Re: Game of Thrones season 8 (with spoilers)
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2019, 06:36:06 PM »
ohmygawdohmygawdohmygawd!!!

I've just finished watching it now, I can't think coherently

Spoiler for Hiden:
When Arya killed the Night King I screamed, I actually screamed, and panted/shallow breathed. I didn't think I was the type of person who screams at these scenes. And pants! :-[ ;D ;D

And unlike JR I loved the episode, I think the balance of silence and action was extremely well done, and I loved the music towards the end, over the muffled sounds.

They could never make every single key character do something important in just one episode, so I understand the choices.

Although, yeah, I didn't get Bran's wargging to do whatever, then back. I do hope that he did something that we'll find out in future episodes.

And I got all emotional on Sansa and Tyrion's short interchange, both in words and in looks, and in Theon's last stand.

But Arya! Oh my sweet darling amazing super badass Arry ;D :-* ;D
« Last Edit: April 29, 2019, 06:42:00 PM by ScarletBea »
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Offline Peat

Re: Game of Thrones season 8 (with spoilers)
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2019, 07:09:32 PM »
Tebakutis is a prophet

Spoiler for Hiden:
Major proofs that in the North they feed teenage girls Brave Pills and Hero Juice aside, I felt somewhat underwhelmed.

The two major reasons imo are that -

a) The battle didn't make much logical sense to me. It felt like a battle and a bunch of action scenes for the sake of a battle and a bunch of action scenes, rather than the logical conclusion of the characters' actions. For me, that made it kinda limp from the get go.

b) The Night King stuff... I dunno, I'm not sure he needed to be in the final episode, or that the War For The Dawn trumped the Game of Thrones, but... I think there should have been more to him than that. I'd have liked it to be obvious who Azor Azhai was before the Night King snuffed it. And I think they signaled his fairly incipient death after making it clear that either the good guys won or they all died about halfway through; I knew they weren't all dying, so he was either dying at the end or early on next episode. Kudos for making it so dramatic anyway but in general, it didn't satisfy.

And now I think about it... I do think he needed to be there until the final episode, or near it at least, because it feels a lot less tense and exciting for the plot being simply A) How do they defeat Cersei B) How do Jon and Dany resolve things. Having a third source of tension made things fun and uncertain. This? I think the writers have set themselves up for a hell of a task.

If I'd been writing it, I'd have had an epic miserable retreat from Winterfell, with Dany's and Jon's armies splitting after an epic argument... but then maybe you can't wrap that up in 3 more episodes[/quote]

Offline J.R. Darewood

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Re: Game of Thrones season 8 (with spoilers)
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2019, 03:30:19 AM »
Tebakutis is a prophet

Spoiler for Hiden:
Major proofs that in the North they feed teenage girls Brave Pills and Hero Juice aside, I felt somewhat underwhelmed.

The two major reasons imo are that -

a) The battle didn't make much logical sense to me. It felt like a battle and a bunch of action scenes for the sake of a battle and a bunch of action scenes, rather than the logical conclusion of the characters' actions. For me, that made it kinda limp from the get go.

b) The Night King stuff... I dunno, I'm not sure he needed to be in the final episode, or that the War For The Dawn trumped the Game of Thrones, but... I think there should have been more to him than that. I'd have liked it to be obvious who Azor Azhai was before the Night King snuffed it. And I think they signaled his fairly incipient death after making it clear that either the good guys won or they all died about halfway through; I knew they weren't all dying, so he was either dying at the end or early on next episode. Kudos for making it so dramatic anyway but in general, it didn't satisfy.

And now I think about it... I do think he needed to be there until the final episode, or near it at least, because it feels a lot less tense and exciting for the plot being simply A) How do they defeat Cersei B) How do Jon and Dany resolve things. Having a third source of tension made things fun and uncertain. This? I think the writers have set themselves up for a hell of a task.

If I'd been writing it, I'd have had an epic miserable retreat from Winterfell, with Dany's and Jon's armies splitting after an epic argument... but then maybe you can't wrap that up in 3 more episodes
[/quote]

I'm with Peat on this one. That said, Scarlet and Teb, I might have shouted at the screen a bit in that final moment too :)  Loved the Sansa and Tyrion scene too.

Offline J.R. Darewood

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Re: Game of Thrones season 8 (with spoilers)
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2019, 06:37:03 AM »
PS--

Here's how I would have done it.

Spoiler for Hiden:
* Cercei agrees to the truce but secretly prepares for war, but she doesn't tell her brother Jaime.
* When Bran reveals that the Night King is after him, Tyrion suggests sending him to Kings Landing. Despite Bran's protests Jon Snow agrees and he gets shipped off with Clegane and Sam.
* There is a crazy battle to defend Winterfell with a ton of dead and several white walkers and snow spiders, but no night king.  They just barely defend the castle, taking out a white walker or two (and maybe the dragon), but the army of the dead continues south.
* There's a race to reach Kings Landing, the journeys not safe, the dead are chasing them, and Dany and Jon's armies are also in pursuit hoping to find the night king
* Bran, Sam and the Hound arrive.  Cercei imprisons Sam, tortures him for information about the dead, and once she discovers that whats-his-face had sort of a peace agreement by sending babies to the white walkers, she decides she has to give Bran to the night king. She also prepares to burn huge portions of kings landing with the people still living in it by stashing kegs of wildfire everywhere.
* Bran is strapped down somewhere and there's a big battle to get to him with people fighting Lannister soldiers, we get Cleganebowl as the Hound tries to free him, Arya comes out of her disguise to save the Hound, but then Clegane gets killed by the night king anyway. In king's landing, the battle with the dead doesn't go well, and Jaime kills Circei to keep her from murdering half of king's landing.  In the end Bran kills the night king.  Or maybe Arya could still do it b/c she did such a good job of it in the show... but I think having Bran do it would give an extra reversal.

Offline The Gem Cutter

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Re: Game of Thrones season 8 (with spoilers)
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2019, 01:45:12 PM »
If only the show's creators were given the reins on Star Wars movies, it would be amazing!!
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Re: Game of Thrones season 8 (with spoilers)
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2019, 08:36:13 AM »
Have to agree with Bradley's and Peat's opinions on this one. The battle is cinematically amazing, but
Spoiler for Hiden:
plot twise, not as great as the earlier battles for sure, whether The Battle of the Bastards, Hardhome, or even The Blackwater.

Offline JMack

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Re: Game of Thrones season 8 (with spoilers)
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2019, 10:29:01 AM »
So, some appointment some disappointment (that crammed works, right?). But now we all march south, right?

Or do we?

Why would Sansa go south in the next episodes? Not for any good reason I can see, except not trusting Dany. Who stays to rebuild Winterfell? Arya? Not damn likely.

So,’what if Jon, Dany, Arya, and assorted hangers on go south, while Sansa stays... but, the Iron Fleet comes calling?

Feels like we need predictions!
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Offline Zairoq

Re: Game of Thrones season 8 (with spoilers)
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2019, 09:31:50 PM »
Ep 3 was intense for sure, i was really enjoying it until the Arya moment. When that happened I was flabbergasted and kept shouting "WHAT" at the screen ;D But tbh i feel like all that hype since the very first episode was deflated in an unsatisfying way. I was expecting a twist where Bran is controlling the NK or something.

Offline Elfy

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Re: Game of Thrones season 8 (with spoilers)
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2019, 02:11:49 AM »
So, some appointment some disappointment (that crammed works, right?). But now we all march south, right?

Or do we?

Why would Sansa go south in the next episodes? Not for any good reason I can see, except not trusting Dany. Who stays to rebuild Winterfell? Arya? Not damn likely.

So,’what if Jon, Dany, Arya, and assorted hangers on go south, while Sansa stays... but, the Iron Fleet comes calling?

Feels like we need predictions!
Agree with that. Nit everyone can go south. My own prediction is that the Golden Company will turn and wind up being on Dany’s side. I think they originate from Essos and Daario has a connection with them, although at this point i’m Niw starting to confuse the books with the show.
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