October 01, 2020, 09:01:47 PM

Author Topic: Game of Thrones Season 6 with spoilers for books and TV Show  (Read 18642 times)

Offline tebakutis

  • Falsely Puffed Up Rascal Pig and Writing Contest Regular
  • Writing Group
  • Master Namer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2445
  • Total likes: 1760
  • Gender: Male
    • www.tebakutis.com
Re: Game of Thrones Season 6 with spoilers for books and TV Show
« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2016, 06:07:12 PM »
Interesting how easy it is to break into Castle Black, otherwise known as Fort Toothpicks, when you're on the correct side of the Wall.

Haha, I'm with @ultamentkiller here. I'm totally stealing this.

Though to be fair to Bran the Builder (and whoever else), Castle Black *was* built to defend the wall, and the wall is f'in HUGE. Given the tremendous amount of maintenance that thing must take, and the fact that (up until everything went to **** in Westeros) the wall could depend on the protection and support of the rulers it was built to defend, you can't really fault its builders for not fortifying the south side a bit more. It's not their fault they only powerful people the Night's Watch has left to protect are horrible.

I kept thinking that Jon was hanging out inside his dire wolf and that this would figure into the resurrection. I'm a little disappointed they didn't take my lead on this. They could have at least asked me.  :P

Without spoiling any specific book for you, I will say that, depending on how much Robin Hobb you've read, they could not have done that without absolutely getting slammed for ripping her off. :0

Now I can't wait to see what Cersei and Jaime do about the Sept, the Sparrow, and their nasty little army of cudgel-wielding fanatics.

I'm so torn on the Sparrows. If there is one problem (or, depending on your opinion, strength) of GoT, is that there are very few people that you can actually root for. Because most everyone, with a few rare exceptions, is just a horrible person.

On one side, we know that everyone who has run King's Landing, from Aerys Targarent to Robert Baratheon and on down the line, has fallen somewhere along the spectrum of bat**** insane, entirely incompetent, horribly uncaring, or downright tyrannically evil. We've also seen (briefly) samples of how much the wars have f'ed up the lives of practically all the "little people" in Westeros. They have been drafted, disenfranchised, raped, and murdered by the thousands, all by one high lord or another. And all for petty grievances they cared nothing about.

The common people should, rightfully, be ready to kick their rulers out, and as scary righteous as they are, the Sparrows seem to be the most populous example of the little people finally taking a stand. Basically, they're tired of putting up with all the stuff that has been rolling downhill onto them for decades now.

I *loved* the scene with the High Sparrow and Jaime Lannister from this episode. Jaime's up in the High Sparrow's face, hand on his sword hilt, and the High Sparrow just smiles as his innumerable holy warriors step out of the shadows. He knows they can't save him if Jaime strikes, and he truly doesn't care. Because he doesn't see himself as important. As V once said, "Beneath this mask there is an idea... and ideas are bulletproof." That idea ... that the common people should rise up and unite ... is far bigger than the High Sparrow.

The High Sparrow does not care one bit that Jaime might kill him, because he truly believes someone else will simply take his place. That's another thing the High Sparrow has going for him. He actually does seem to genuinely believe in making life better for the common folk, people who have repeatedly taken it in the chin due to every horrible decision made by their rulers. He's not in it for himself.

So yeah. The Sparrows are scary, and mean, and that lady who keeps yelling "Shame!" is probably going to end up being beaten to a pulp by Zombie Mountain. But I don't see anyone else stepping up to correct the horrible injustices visited on the people of Westeros by their rulers. Tommen is probably the kindest ruler they've had (he's just inexperienced) and, given the grimdark nature of GoT, the fact that the people of Westeros now finally have a (possibly) just ruler absolutely means they're going to lynch him.

It wouldn't be grimdark unless, when the common people finally rise up, they screw themselves by killing the first chance at a non-dickish ruler they've had. :)

All in all, even two episodes in, I'm loving this season. People have said repeatedly that George R. R. Martin owes no one his next book, and I agree. He should write at his own pace. But for my own edification, waiting FIVE FREAKING YEARS is long enough. Time to move this plot forward, and if HBO does that with an outline written by Martin, that's absolutely fine by me.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2016, 06:09:23 PM by tebakutis »

Offline ultamentkiller

Re: Game of Thrones Season 6 with spoilers for books and TV Show
« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2016, 08:41:17 PM »
We'll see. I agree that Tommen is a nice guy, but I think he's about to fall completely under Cersei's control because of his guilt, and that may be what gets him killed. He does have a bit of a level head, and Jaime going for him, so maybe that'll help? But I'm not confident.

Even if they do have a great ruler, I think the people are sick of it. Tyrion was a great leader, but the people hated him. Granted, that's because he was put in charge of fixing the kingdom's financial issues, which is bound to make the people hate whoever is put in that role. But still. As a leader he's awesome.

The question is what will happen if The Sparrows take over, and then Daenerys shows up to rule? Will she fight the people?

Offline tebakutis

  • Falsely Puffed Up Rascal Pig and Writing Contest Regular
  • Writing Group
  • Master Namer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2445
  • Total likes: 1760
  • Gender: Male
    • www.tebakutis.com
Re: Game of Thrones Season 6 with spoilers for books and TV Show
« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2016, 09:39:12 PM »
The question is what will happen if The Sparrows take over, and then Daenerys shows up to rule? Will she fight the people?

Yup, that's the issue some people have with grimdark. Even though the Sparrows seem like the lesser of two evils, they're still ... not that great. Sure, they might unseat the rulers who have been screwing you over, common people, but from everything we've seen, they also plan to implement a theocracy more restrictive and oppressive than any you've ever seen. So ... lose/lose for the common person?

The bigger issue with Daenerys, of course, is that the common people of Westeros don't really know who she is. All they know is she's a Targaryen, and the last Targaryen in power liked setting people on fire. This is why there's strong indications the common people could end up rallying behind Sansa, especially in the north. If Daenerys arrives with an army of Unsullied, a Dothraki horde, and a bunch of dragons, the commoners aren't exactly going to be thrilled. She'll be seen as an invader.

This is, of course, if she arrives before the White Walkers. If the White Walkers break through the wall first and start wrecking everything, and THEN Dany shows up to save the day, she could very well get the liberating queen treatment. All of these possibilities are why I'm excited for the show. I just want to know where the story will go, and (sadly) I'm not getting that from the books, due to the pace at which Martin manages to finish them.

Offline Phil Norris

Re: Game of Thrones Season 6 with spoilers for books and TV Show
« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2016, 09:41:33 PM »
It's been a while since I read the books but I'm pretty sure when Castle Black is first described (so that would have been in A Game of Thrones) as Jon, Benjen & Tyrion are there it is said it is totally undefended from the south. No wall, no stockade just open ground and then Mole Town. So as its shown in the show it is more like a traditional castle and seen to be better defended on its southern side.

Jon could very well have been in Ghost - he may mention some dreams/visions about being locked up (Ghost was when he was killed), seeing his own body, seeing everyone else - but seeing his warging has not been explored and he himself may not know he can do it he wont know thats what hes done.
 
I'm not sure Ayra knows she can warg in the books? She's had dreams about being a wolf - specifically her wolf from S1 - but thats all. In fact of all the Stark children its only Bran that seems aware of his ability.

I'm sure Jon had been dead at least a day. He was killed at night, Ser Alastair gave them "till nightfall" so this must have been early the next morning, not sure where the Wildlings were (in The Gift somewhere but thats a big stretch of land) so hard to say how long it would have taken Ed to get to them and get back. It was night again when the Wildlings got back, so minimum of a day I'd say.

As to Jon's 'condition', Beric was always resurrected  straight away or within an hour or so at least, Catelyn was dead for several days at least before Thoros did the same to her and Jon is in between the two. So my guess is he will be more like Beric than Catelyn but there maybe some darkness about him, more of an edge maybe.
To have an idea is not enough - no matter how good the idea is.

Offline ultamentkiller

Re: Game of Thrones Season 6 with spoilers for books and TV Show
« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2016, 09:46:25 PM »
Crazy fan theory I heard today about Hodor.

So something goes down at the Tower place. I really don't understand what most fans are talking about here besides that it has to do with Lyanna. Anyway, while they're under attack, Hodor is instructed to hold the door to protect them. Or if he's not instructed, that's what he does. Something traumatic happens to him(some say Lyanna dies as a result of his failure) and all he can say for the rest of his life is Hodor, which kind of sounds like "hold door."

I'm thinking he gets hit on the head, and when he wakes up he either realizes the scope of his failure which adds to his head trauma, or he's just stuck thinking hold the door.

Another theory is that he's a Warg, and did that for too long. They say the horse was his animal of choice. I'm not sure I buy that. It could be part of it, but I don't believe that's the whole story.

Offline Phil Norris

Re: Game of Thrones Season 6 with spoilers for books and TV Show
« Reply #20 on: May 05, 2016, 10:05:43 PM »
Crazy fan theory I heard today about Hodor.

So something goes down at the Tower place. I really don't understand what most fans are talking about here besides that it has to do with Lyanna. Anyway, while they're under attack, Hodor is instructed to hold the door to protect them. Or if he's not instructed, that's what he does. Something traumatic happens to him(some say Lyanna dies as a result of his failure) and all he can say for the rest of his life is Hodor, which kind of sounds like "hold door."

I'm thinking he gets hit on the head, and when he wakes up he either realizes the scope of his failure which adds to his head trauma, or he's just stuck thinking hold the door.

Another theory is that he's a Warg, and did that for too long. They say the horse was his animal of choice. I'm not sure I buy that. It could be part of it, but I don't believe that's the whole story.

The Tower of Joy....
Spoiler for Hiden:
At the end of Roberts Rebellion Ned goes to the Tower to rescue Lyanna who is there guarded by three members of the kings Guard, Ned and six friends (one of them Howland Reed, father of Jojen & Meera) fight the Kings Guard and only Ned & Howland survive. This part of Westeros history is mentioned in a fever dream Ned has from book 1 when he is recovering after breaking his leg after being attacked by Jamie Lannister and Lannister guards (in the TV show he his speared through the leg and does not have the vision). The events at the Tower have always been considered important because it was here Ned made some promise to Lyanna that has never been explained but which may think was his promise to look after hers and Rhaegar Targaryan's son - Jon Snow. There hs never been any mention Hodor (Wylas) was at the Tower or anywhere near the fighting, or if he'd ever left Winterfell before he did with Bran & co

I heard the Hodor is a warg theory before, and that he was in love with Lyanna and so used to warg into her horse. Not sure there is much milage in this though.
To have an idea is not enough - no matter how good the idea is.

Offline Phil Norris

Re: Game of Thrones Season 6 with spoilers for books and TV Show
« Reply #21 on: May 05, 2016, 10:10:00 PM »
Crazy fan theory I heard today about Hodor.

So something goes down at the Tower place. I really don't understand what most fans are talking about here besides that it has to do with Lyanna. Anyway, while they're under attack, Hodor is instructed to hold the door to protect them. Or if he's not instructed, that's what he does. Something traumatic happens to him(some say Lyanna dies as a result of his failure) and all he can say for the rest of his life is Hodor, which kind of sounds like "hold door."

I'm thinking he gets hit on the head, and when he wakes up he either realizes the scope of his failure which adds to his head trauma, or he's just stuck thinking hold the door.

Another theory is that he's a Warg, and did that for too long. They say the horse was his animal of choice. I'm not sure I buy that. It could be part of it, but I don't believe that's the whole story.

The Tower of Joy....
Spoiler for Hiden:
At the end of Roberts Rebellion Ned goes to the Tower to rescue Lyanna who is there guarded by three members of the Kings Guard, Ned and six friends (one of them Howland Reed, father of Jojen & Meera) fight the Kings Guard and only Ned & Howland survive. This part of Westeros history is mentioned in a fever dream Ned has from book 1 when he is recovering after breaking his leg after being attacked by Jamie Lannister and Lannister guards (in the TV show he his speared through the leg and does not have the vision). The events at the Tower have always been considered important because it was here Ned made some promise to Lyanna that has never been explained but which many think was his promise to look after hers and Rhaegar Targaryan's son - Jon Snow. There has never been any mention Hodor (Wylas) was at the Tower (possible though he could have been a squire) or anywhere near the fighting, or if he'd ever left Winterfell before he did with Bran & co

I heard the Hodor is a warg theory before, and that he was in love with Lyanna and so used to warg into her horse. Not sure there is much milage in this though.
To have an idea is not enough - no matter how good the idea is.

Offline ultamentkiller

Re: Game of Thrones Season 6 with spoilers for books and TV Show
« Reply #22 on: May 10, 2016, 02:09:39 AM »
Let's talk Episode 3. You have been warned.

This episode left me really... Ponderous. Jon Snow. I'm glad he's back, but I didn't expect things to go the way they did. In the books, he knows all about Ramsay and he thinks that Arya is still held up at Winterfell. So when he wakes up, I imagine some shock at first, and then bam! Let's go! Not here. He doesn't really have a direction now. He believes he's failed the Night's Watch, he thinks the majority of his family are dead... So where will he go? How will him and Ramsay fight it out?

Arya didn't warg, which begs the question. Does she still have her warg powers in the show?

Was Eddard stabbing the guy in the back supposed to be a shocker? When it comes to his family, he'll do anything to protect them. I thought we established that in Season 1, when he was going to take the black. Either way, let's get more Tower stuff! That has to be Lyanna screaming in the background.

Shaggy! Nooooooooooooooo! Now I hate this guy too! Really, I wasn't that attached to the animal, but I'm more upset that another direwolf is dead,  which means Rickon is in more danger than ever. Maybe somehow Jon will figure out where Rickon is and come save him?

Good episode. Still loving the fact that I have no idea what's coming.

Offline Elfy

  • Writing contest regular
  • Powers That Be
  • Big Wee Hag
  • *
  • Posts: 7411
  • Total likes: 825
  • Gender: Male
    • Purple Dove House
Re: Game of Thrones Season 6 with spoilers for books and TV Show
« Reply #23 on: May 10, 2016, 06:38:40 AM »
Let's talk Episode 3. You have been warned.

This episode left me really... Ponderous. Jon Snow. I'm glad he's back, but I didn't expect things to go the way they did. In the books, he knows all about Ramsay and he thinks that Arya is still held up at Winterfell. So when he wakes up, I imagine some shock at first, and then bam! Let's go! Not here. He doesn't really have a direction now. He believes he's failed the Night's Watch, he thinks the majority of his family are dead... So where will he go? How will him and Ramsay fight it out?

Arya didn't warg, which begs the question. Does she still have her warg powers in the show?

Was Eddard stabbing the guy in the back supposed to be a shocker? When it comes to his family, he'll do anything to protect them. I thought we established that in Season 1, when he was going to take the black. Either way, let's get more Tower stuff! That has to be Lyanna screaming in the background.

Shaggy! Nooooooooooooooo! Now I hate this guy too! Really, I wasn't that attached to the animal, but I'm more upset that another direwolf is dead,  which means Rickon is in more danger than ever. Maybe somehow Jon will figure out where Rickon is and come save him?

Good episode. Still loving the fact that I have no idea what's coming.
Ned wasn't the one who stabbed Arthur Dayne in the back, it was Howland Reed. This allowed Ned to deliver the killing blow when Dayne couldn't fight back. The shock was the way it coloured Ned, Bran had heard the story before, but never the bit about how Reed stabbed Dayne in the back. In the books I think the shock about the Stark family was more how Bran's namesake, his uncle, wasn't really the paragon of virtue everyone had thought him to be.

There's been some theory that the head isn't really Shaggy's, just some random wolf, and it's part of a plot by the Umbers, Rickon and Osha to take Ramsay down. I don't understand why Ramsay simply doesn't kill Rickon and be done with it, no one else knows he's alive, and as far as everyone knows the only valid heir to Winterfell is Sansa, and not even Ramsay knows where she is now.
I will expand your TBR pile.

http://purpledovehouse.blogspot.com

Offline ultamentkiller

Re: Game of Thrones Season 6 with spoilers for books and TV Show
« Reply #24 on: May 10, 2016, 10:33:31 AM »
Aah. I had to google the recap to understand the scenes without much dialogue, and the one I found didn't explain those parts extremely well. So now I get how that was dramatic with Eddard.

Question about Shaggy then. Does the head resemble what his is supposed to look like? Or does he have a pretty indistinguishable head? When I first saw Umber, my first thought was that he was playing Ramsay. But then when the wolf's head came out, that changed things. However, if there's no way to tell for sure... I still have hope for Umber's character.

Offline CameronJohnston

Re: Game of Thrones Season 6 with spoilers for books and TV Show
« Reply #25 on: May 10, 2016, 12:45:42 PM »
Please, please, please be part of a plot that takes Ramsay down! (in a very painful manner)

Jon's return was a bit anticlimactic I thought. But now I have no idea what happens next there :)
And Ned's past...such a teaser!
« Last Edit: May 10, 2016, 04:05:33 PM by CameronJohnston »

The Traitor God & God of Broken Things

Offline Hedin

Re: Game of Thrones Season 6 with spoilers for books and TV Show
« Reply #26 on: May 10, 2016, 03:37:09 PM »
As for what Jon does next I think Sansa arriving will kickstart things a bit.  Plus if Ramsay sends his goon squad after Jon like he mentioned when talking with Roose before he killed him that might provide a little more fire.

I think the Umbers are solely on Ramsay's side.  For one, if it is a fake wolf you would also fake Rickon instead of giving Ramsay, who wouldn't know what Rickon looked like, the real Rickon.  Secondly, the Umber story of being afraid of this mass amount of Wildlings at their doorstep is believable and actually drives the plot toward the Battle of the Bastards.

I'm not bothered by Ned killing Dayne at the end, you're not going to live after being stabbed like that so it felt more like a mercy killing to me.  I probably would have been more bothered had he left Dayne just to bleed out.

Offline Nighteyes

  • Juicy dwarf/orc erotica to go.
  • Ringbearer
  • *****
  • Posts: 6910
  • Total likes: 1540
  • OH WOW! JUST WORKED OUT HOW TO DO THIS!!!!!
Re: Game of Thrones Season 6 with spoilers for books and TV Show
« Reply #27 on: May 10, 2016, 08:06:22 PM »
Let's talk Episode 3. You have been warned.

This episode left me really... Ponderous. Jon Snow. I'm glad he's back, but I didn't expect things to go the way they did. In the books, he knows all about Ramsay and he thinks that Arya is still held up at Winterfell. So when he wakes up, I imagine some shock at first, and then bam! Let's go! Not here. He doesn't really have a direction now. He believes he's failed the Night's Watch, he thinks the majority of his family are dead... So where will he go? How will him and Ramsay fight it out?

Arya didn't warg, which begs the question. Does she still have her warg powers in the show?

Was Eddard stabbing the guy in the back supposed to be a shocker? When it comes to his family, he'll do anything to protect them. I thought we established that in Season 1, when he was going to take the black. Either way, let's get more Tower stuff! That has to be Lyanna screaming in the background.

Shaggy! Nooooooooooooooo! Now I hate this guy too! Really, I wasn't that attached to the animal, but I'm more upset that another direwolf is dead,  which means Rickon is in more danger than ever. Maybe somehow Jon will figure out where Rickon is and come save him?

Good episode. Still loving the fact that I have no idea what's coming.
Ned wasn't the one who stabbed Arthur Dayne in the back, it was Howland Reed. This allowed Ned to deliver the killing blow when Dayne couldn't fight back. The shock was the way it coloured Ned, Bran had heard the story before, but never the bit about how Reed stabbed Dayne in the back. In the books I think the shock about the Stark family was more how Bran's namesake, his uncle, wasn't really the paragon of virtue everyone had thought him to be.

There's been some theory that the head isn't really Shaggy's, just some random wolf, and it's part of a plot by the Umbers, Rickon and Osha to take Ramsay down. I don't understand why Ramsay simply doesn't kill Rickon and be done with it, no one else knows he's alive, and as far as everyone knows the only valid heir to Winterfell is Sansa, and not even Ramsay knows where she is now.

Aren't the Umbers in the book part of the faction that claim falsely to have executed Davos and cook two of the Freys in the pie?  I am wondering if this is a different way of going about the North working against the Boltons surreptitiously.

Also TOWER OF JOY! Massive nerdgasm.  Been waiting 15 years for the Tower of Joy and Howland Reed.

And where has Bronn gone?
The Real Powers That Be

Offline Hedin

Re: Game of Thrones Season 6 with spoilers for books and TV Show
« Reply #28 on: May 10, 2016, 10:19:06 PM »
Pretty sure it was the Manderlays who did all of that.

Offline Elfy

  • Writing contest regular
  • Powers That Be
  • Big Wee Hag
  • *
  • Posts: 7411
  • Total likes: 825
  • Gender: Male
    • Purple Dove House
Re: Game of Thrones Season 6 with spoilers for books and TV Show
« Reply #29 on: May 10, 2016, 10:23:18 PM »
Pretty sure it was the Manderlays who did all of that.
In the books it was was the Manderleys who served the Frey pie. The Umbers are still loyal to the Starks, but have been fairly quiet since the Greatjon was killed at the Red Wedding.
I will expand your TBR pile.

http://purpledovehouse.blogspot.com