March 20, 2019, 07:59:09 PM

Author Topic: Writers that shit on their characters.  (Read 4643 times)

Offline Seeker

Re: Writers that shit on their characters.
« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2013, 02:36:19 PM »
Amazing stories, I love Abercrombie, but the ending did feel intended, rather than organic.

Does that make sense?

I'm all about stories that go against the grain - it's not about happy endings either. It's about satisfying endings. Meh. 

Offline Eclipse

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Re: Writers that shit on their characters.
« Reply #16 on: December 13, 2018, 04:19:42 PM »
Janny Wurts does
According to some,* heroic deaths are admirable things

* Generally those who don't have to do it.Politicians and writers spring to mind

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Offline JMack

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Re: Writers that shit on their characters.
« Reply #17 on: December 13, 2018, 04:43:09 PM »
Lois McMaster Bujold says the writer must create characters she loves, put them in a tree, and burn down the tree.
Change, when it comes, will step lightly before it kicks like thunder. (GRMatthews)
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Offline Skip

Re: Writers that shit on their characters.
« Reply #18 on: December 13, 2018, 06:10:05 PM »
I am not so in love with stories that abuse their main character(s). Most times, it's just laziness, a distant descendant of the Perils of Pauline. It's too easy. Fantasy novels are especially guilty of thinking piling it on raises the story to the level of epic.

I like best those stories that challenge the MC with adversities that are just beyond their capabilities. Make the MC stretch. The classic fantasy example, of course, is Lord of the Rings. All our heroes are stretched to the limit and beyond, but all make it through in the end (though not without consequences). That's immensely satisfying to me.

I can't help but feel that the grimdark version of the Odyssey would have Odysseus come home and be murdered by the suitors. Or at least bitten by the dog.

Offline J.R. Darewood

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Re: Writers that shit on their characters.
« Reply #19 on: December 13, 2018, 11:21:18 PM »
Fitz may have felt the weight of some of Hobb's shit.

Yes!  I think Hobb was taking extra strong laxatives when writing Assassin's Quest.

I have nothing to say. I just wanted to quote that.

Offline xiagan

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Re: Writers that shit on their characters.
« Reply #20 on: December 14, 2018, 11:35:52 AM »
Always crazy to see a thread full of regulars who haven't been online for quite a while. Imagine @Jian being an adult now! ;D
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Offline Peat

Re: Writers that shit on their characters.
« Reply #21 on: December 14, 2018, 12:29:53 PM »
Fitz may have felt the weight of some of Hobb's shit.

Yes!  I think Hobb was taking extra strong laxatives when writing Assassin's Quest.

I have nothing to say. I just wanted to quote that.

A magical line. And ultra true. I stopped reading Hobb because I just got bored of reading about a human punching bag who couldn't make a good decision if he was offered free ice cream. No matter how beautifully written, that's just not interesting unless its also funny.

Offline xiagan

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Re: Writers that shit on their characters.
« Reply #22 on: December 14, 2018, 06:00:41 PM »
Fitz may have felt the weight of some of Hobb's shit.

Yes!  I think Hobb was taking extra strong laxatives when writing Assassin's Quest.

I have nothing to say. I just wanted to quote that.

A magical line. And ultra true. I stopped reading Hobb because I just got bored of reading about a human punching bag who couldn't make a good decision if he was offered free ice cream. No matter how beautifully written, that's just not interesting unless its also funny.
Finally somebody who gets it!
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Offline ScarletBea

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Re: Writers that shit on their characters.
« Reply #23 on: December 14, 2018, 06:17:46 PM »
Hmmm... I never saw Fitz like that. Oh well. Different people, different minds.
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Offline Elfy

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Re: Writers that shit on their characters.
« Reply #24 on: December 15, 2018, 01:05:16 AM »
Fitz may have felt the weight of some of Hobb's shit.

Yes!  I think Hobb was taking extra strong laxatives when writing Assassin's Quest.

I have nothing to say. I just wanted to quote that.

A magical line. And ultra true. I stopped reading Hobb because I just got bored of reading about a human punching bag who couldn't make a good decision if he was offered free ice cream. No matter how beautifully written, that's just not interesting unless its also funny.
Finally somebody who gets it!
That was largely my reason for giving up on Hobb, especially the Fitz books.
I will expand your TBR pile.

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Offline Rostum

Re: Writers that shit on their characters.
« Reply #25 on: December 15, 2018, 06:43:25 PM »
Joe Abercrombie has stated several times that Characters are tools to do a job and sometimes tools break. When they do you go back to the toolbox and get another one.


Online Alex Hormann

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Re: Writers that shit on their characters.
« Reply #26 on: December 15, 2018, 07:54:11 PM »
Fitz may have felt the weight of some of Hobb's shit.

Yes!  I think Hobb was taking extra strong laxatives when writing Assassin's Quest.

I have nothing to say. I just wanted to quote that.

A magical line. And ultra true. I stopped reading Hobb because I just got bored of reading about a human punching bag who couldn't make a good decision if he was offered free ice cream. No matter how beautifully written, that's just not interesting unless its also funny.

Pretty much my exact thoughts.

Offline S. K. Inkslinger

Re: Writers that shit on their characters.
« Reply #27 on: December 16, 2018, 02:46:21 AM »
Got a bad lesson on this from Brent Weeks. Kylar didn't deserve half of the things Weeks dished at him, seriously.

Offline Peat

Re: Writers that shit on their characters.
« Reply #28 on: December 16, 2018, 03:04:09 AM »
Got a bad lesson on this from Brent Weeks. Kylar didn't deserve half of the things Weeks dished at him, seriously.



Rostum's Abercrombie quote is more or less right. You do what makes a better story. Skip is more or less right too about it not always making a better story (although that is highly subjective, as seen).

I actually think Abercrombie treats a lot of his characters pretty well, particularly the MCs. Sure, being Shivers ain't a lot of fun, but Glotka and Monza makes out great all things considered.

Martin's the nastiest, or at least he was. An absolute master of making it feel organic too, and neither too foreshadowed or too WTF.

Robert Jordan quietly piles a lot of shit onto his characters.
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Offline Elfy

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Re: Writers that shit on their characters.
« Reply #29 on: December 16, 2018, 04:58:45 AM »
Got a bad lesson on this from Brent Weeks. Kylar didn't deserve half of the things Weeks dished at him, seriously.



Rostum's Abercrombie quote is more or less right. You do what makes a better story. Skip is more or less right too about it not always making a better story (although that is highly subjective, as seen).

I actually think Abercrombie treats a lot of his characters pretty well, particularly the MCs. Sure, being Shivers ain't a lot of fun, but Glotka and Monza makes out great all things considered.

Martin's the nastiest, or at least he was. An absolute master of making it feel organic too, and neither too foreshadowed or too WTF.

Robert Jordan quietly piles a lot of shit onto his characters.
Martin used to be, Scott Lynch puts his through the wringer, too.