March 25, 2017, 09:32:05 AM

Poll

What should Raptori read next?

Last Argument of Kings by Joe Abercrombie
6 (26.1%)
The Hunger Games by Suzanne Collins
5 (21.7%)
Blood Song by Anthony Ryan
1 (4.3%)
The Warded Man by Peter V Brett
4 (17.4%)
The Aeronaut's Windlass by Jim Butcher
3 (13%)
The Thousand Names by Django Wexler
3 (13%)
Aftermath by Chuck Wendig
1 (4.3%)

Total Members Voted: 18

Voting closed: November 24, 2015, 09:52:25 PM

Author Topic: What should Raptori read next?  (Read 8450 times)

Offline ScarletBea

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Re: What should Raptori read next?
« Reply #90 on: December 05, 2015, 08:56:04 PM »
Ah, I only joined in 2013, and only went to the GG this year.
I was just wondering if you were a 'known' with a new name :)

Anyway, hope you get more active now!
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What should Raptori read next?
« Reply #91 on: December 05, 2015, 09:23:41 PM »
He's a known. And was one of the gang back then. ;)

And of course I strongly advise everyone to read Walter Moers. 13 1/2 lives of Captain Bluebaer or even better the City of Dreaming Books. Seriously guys, if you want to see some rad worldbuilding, go buy his books.

Eta: http://fantasy-faction.com/forum/fantasy-book-discussion/walter-moers-the-city-of-dreaming-books/msg48194/#msg48194
« Last Edit: December 05, 2015, 09:53:19 PM by xiagan »
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Re: What should Raptori read next?
« Reply #92 on: December 05, 2015, 11:10:32 PM »

Quote
Let's just leave Hunger Games at that. Clearly, after three+ pages of pretty much only arguing over the pros and cons, it's become less about the book and more about winning whatever side we're on.

@ultamentkiller Agree we have probably exhausted  the HG discussion, but I'm coming back here late because of time difference .

Just wanted to support all  Lanko wrote in his last post in that we weren't having a bad argument at all, but it opened up plenty of  interesting discussion about various aspects of the Hunger Games and thank you all for your posts.  It added to everyone's general interest and certainly left me with plenty to consider about other people's views from reading it.

Please don't go away with the feeling that we were aggressive about our POV's, guess a bit over enthusiastic might be a better way of putting it and  I apologise if my views on government came across too strongly, I am cynical and came down hard.

It's the joy of F-F and it's friendly informality that a thread with this heading can happily sideline into so many  other discussions and comment. :D
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Offline Raptori

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Re: What should Raptori read next?
« Reply #93 on: December 06, 2015, 01:06:38 AM »
I'm with Lanko and Lady_Ty - I've been enjoying the discussion, apologies if it came across as an attack!

Everyone has a different way they read the story. You can choose whether or not to read a book and think, "Okay, what's wrong with this." Or you can just read and enjoy. there are exceptions of course, a major one being that even when you're not trying to criticize something the story just begs you to do so. And at the end, everyone's going to know what they liked and didn't like no matter how they read.
Personally I'd never pick up a book just to look for things that are wrong in it (unless it's a re-read specifically for that reason). Even if I pick up a book that has universally negative reviews I'll look for the positives, and hope that there's something there that makes me enjoy it in spite of the problems. I read for enjoyment first. However, since I'm hoping to become a writer, it makes sense to try to specify what makes a story work for me and what breaks my immersion, and to discuss those things with others who have also read the books.

I also couldn't care less if something is popular or not. I have equal admiration for Tales of the Ketty Jay and Stormlight Archive - and actually enjoy discussing the series' respective flaws - the fact that KJ is something few have ever heard of while SA is a mega-blockbuster doesn't affect my feelings for those books whatsoever.

Yes, the revolution theory is probably right. But isn't that the case with a lot of SF and Fantasy? The suspension of belief? Mistbourne by Brandon Sanderson, one of the most popular series within our own community, has a revolution that isn't attempted for 1000 years. And yet, from what I've seen, that's the last thing on people's mind after they're done with book one.
Actually, Mistborn is a good example of a 1000-year stasis that makes sense (or comes close enough to leave my suspension of disbelief intact). It's caused by a near-omnipotent immortal ruler who is bent upon maintaining his power over all that time. Plus there are references throughout the books to changes in societal structure throughout those thousand years - the Lord Ruler had been experimenting, trying to create as stable a society as possible, for all that time - and the implication is that the current situation has only been the case for a couple of hundred years at most. It's still pushing towards the boundaries of believability, but TLR in particular made it acceptable for me.

(Sorry to hijack your link, Raptori - if you're bored, you can always read Walter Moers!)
It's all good, winding random threads are fun!  :P
« Last Edit: December 06, 2015, 02:45:24 AM by Raptori »
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Offline Jmack

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Re: What should Raptori read next?
« Reply #94 on: December 06, 2015, 02:39:30 AM »
I see HG as a simplification of reality to allow a particular plot mechanism to operate sort of unimpeded . I was interested in the characters and the mechanics of the battles, even if the politice were sort of silly. It's like a lot of old SF, where the story y was an excuse to explore one basic idea. But I enjoyed HG for all its flaws.
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Offline Nighteyes

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Re: What should Raptori read next?
« Reply #95 on: December 06, 2015, 08:12:17 AM »

Quote
Let's just leave Hunger Games at that. Clearly, after three+ pages of pretty much only arguing over the pros and cons, it's become less about the book and more about winning whatever side we're on.

@ultamentkiller Agree we have probably exhausted  the HG discussion, but I'm coming back here late because of time difference .

Just wanted to support all  Lanko wrote in his last post in that we weren't having a bad argument at all, but it opened up plenty of  interesting discussion about various aspects of the Hunger Games and thank you all for your posts.  It added to everyone's general interest and certainly left me with plenty to consider about other people's views from reading it.

Please don't go away with the feeling that we were aggressive about our POV's, guess a bit over enthusiastic might be a better way of putting it and  I apologise if my views on government came across too strongly, I am cynical and came down hard.

It's the joy of F-F and it's friendly informality that a thread with this heading can happily sideline into so many  other discussions and comment. :D

Hear hear. A couple of years ago we had a rather irritating mod who used to shut down this type of discussions. Glad the forum has moved on.

My final pennyworth is that I enjoyed the films enough to watch them on netflixs but not enough to see them at the cinema, and don't feel a pressing need to read the books. I would though agree with Idlewilder that they are completely different beasts to Twilight. And still a bit suprised some people strongly dislike them. But we all have things we strongly dislike so fair enough.
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Offline Raptori

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Re: What should Raptori read next?
« Reply #96 on: December 11, 2015, 07:48:14 PM »
Just finished The Warded Man, mixed feelings again. The first section was decent, the middle was good, the third didn't work that well for me. I think the story could have been brilliant, but was let down by the average writing and the mistreatment of certain aspects - character development in particular.

The plot was pretty predictable, but enjoyable in spite of that. The world was interesting, though a few details niggled throughout - the less said about the gender politics the better. The characters were decent but not compelling, and I felt at times that the writing was holding them back - in a few places I felt that the situation could have been very moving, but lacked the impact it could have had.

In the final third of the book Arlen just completely morphed into a completely different character. The transformation wouldn't be beyond the realms of possibility, but so much of it happened off-page that it just didn't feel right. Plus he gained strength and skills far beyond anything that would have felt natural - for example how on did he manage to breed and train a fearless warhorse given only five years or so and no prior knowledge of horses?

So yeah, for me it was an enjoyable read let down by some obvious flaws.
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Offline ultamentkiller

Re: What should Raptori read next?
« Reply #97 on: December 11, 2015, 10:25:09 PM »
Well, that's five years where we don't know what he was doing. A lot changes when you've been feeding off of the demon magic. It literally changes a person and how they look at life. And to say he has no prior knowledge of horses is definitely not true. A lot of that happened offscreen, but when the um... You know, the messenger guy. Anyway, when he was training him, he had to learn about horses and riding in order to be a proper messenger. Also, considering he grew up in a hamlet, he had plenty of time to deal with horses there. The messenger training is where he got the majority of his experience though.

Also, the gender roles dramatically change as the series goes on. You meet one of the most powerful women ever, whose only forced to stand on the sidelines because of the Krasian religion. That starts to change as the series goes on. Also, the duke's grandmother plays a pretty powerful role as well, but again is held back from showing it publicly because of how people feel. Then there's Leesha of course. You don't get to see it in book one, but she becomes super awesome. She's mentioned a whole lot when people discuss strong female characters that aren't stereotypical.

Offline Raptori

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Re: What should Raptori read next?
« Reply #98 on: December 12, 2015, 12:56:30 AM »
Well, that's five years where we don't know what he was doing. A lot changes when you've been feeding off of the demon magic. It literally changes a person and how they look at life. And to say he has no prior knowledge of horses is definitely not true.
Yeah that was my point - it's not that there's absolutely no way that it could have happened (though I do feel that based on the in-universe rules set out at that point it would've probably taken more time than that) - the problem is that we don't get to see the character development. I was expecting to read the story of how the passionate farm boy became the cold-blooded and purposeful demon-killer, but the book skipped the most important parts of that path.

Instead of a continuous narrative, we got the origin story and the realisation of the hero's strength, but not the part in between. The first analogy that springs to mind is Spiderman - it'd be like watching him live happily with his aunt and uncle up until he gets bitten by the spider, and then skipping to him kicking some supervillain ass. The most interesting part - the transition from a normal person into a superhero - is absent.

A lot of that happened offscreen, but when the um... You know, the messenger guy. Anyway, when he was training him, he had to learn about horses and riding in order to be a proper messenger. Also, considering he grew up in a hamlet, he had plenty of time to deal with horses there. The messenger training is where he got the majority of his experience though.
It's vaguely plausible, but it's still odd that it's never mentioned before he suddenly has the perfect horse; besides, the whole "it took me less than five years to breed the perfect warhorse" thing is the bigger problem. It leaves a hell of a lot of questions unanswered. Prime horses would have been incredibly well guarded, and he shunned human contact as much as possible - so where did he get the horses from? He was supposedly living in the wilderness and learning to fight the demons properly - so how did he find the time to protect the horses, train them, and so on? It's a serious undertaking, and it's just completely ignored.

Not saying it's a detail that breaks the story for me, but it's an example of the kind of thing that left me scratching my head.

Also, the gender roles dramatically change as the series goes on. You meet one of the most powerful women ever, whose only forced to stand on the sidelines because of the Krasian religion. That starts to change as the series goes on. Also, the duke's grandmother plays a pretty powerful role as well, but again is held back from showing it publicly because of how people feel. Then there's Leesha of course. You don't get to see it in book one, but she becomes super awesome. She's mentioned a whole lot when people discuss strong female characters that aren't stereotypical.
Interesting, guess I'll find out myself if/when I continue the series. Sounds like you might be concentrating on the existence of strong female characters - which I felt was better than some, all things considered - rather than the nonsensical cultural customs regarding gender roles which just didn't feel like they fit the situation in the setting, but I could easily be wrong about that!  :)
« Last Edit: December 12, 2015, 01:00:39 AM by Raptori »
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Offline Hedin

Re: What should Raptori read next?
« Reply #99 on: December 12, 2015, 01:18:48 AM »
In the final third of the book Arlen just completely morphed into a completely different character.

If you think that transformation was jarring, in 3rd book Arlen completely completely morphs into a totally new character. 

Offline ScarletBea

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Re: What should Raptori read next?
« Reply #100 on: December 12, 2015, 08:31:08 AM »
In the final third of the book Arlen just completely morphed into a completely different character.

If you think that transformation was jarring, in 3rd book Arlen completely completely morphs into a totally new character.
This.
By book 3 you don't care about Arlen anymore - for me the other characters end up being more important/more interesting, and that's one of the reasons why I really enjoyed/preferred book 4.
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Offline Eclipse

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Re: What should Raptori read next?
« Reply #101 on: December 12, 2015, 02:43:49 PM »
I'm surprised that Raptori liked the warded man, I don't think he will enjoy the rest of the series as much lets see  ;D

http://fantasy-faction.com/forum/fantasy-book-discussion/the-painted-man-the-warded-man/

http://fantasy-faction.com/forum/fantasy-book-discussion/the-daylight-war-%28spoilers%29/

Spoiler for Hiden:
Magical wishgranting demon bone regenerates virginity as onemorechapter would say a bit odd
« Last Edit: December 12, 2015, 03:05:59 PM by Eclipse »
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Offline ultamentkiller

Re: What should Raptori read next?
« Reply #102 on: December 12, 2015, 03:55:08 PM »
A lot of that happened offscreen, but when the um... You know, the messenger guy. Anyway, when he was training him, he had to learn about horses and riding in order to be a proper messenger. Also, considering he grew up in a hamlet, he had plenty of time to deal with horses there. The messenger training is where he got the majority of his experience though.
It's vaguely plausible, but it's still odd that it's never mentioned before he suddenly has the perfect horse; besides, the whole "it took me less than five years to breed the perfect warhorse" thing is the bigger problem. It leaves a hell of a lot of questions unanswered. Prime horses would have been incredibly well guarded, and he shunned human contact as much as possible - so where did he get the horses from? He was supposedly living in the wilderness and learning to fight the demons properly - so how did he find the time to protect the horses, train them, and so on? It's a serious undertaking, and it's just completely ignored.

Not saying it's a detail that breaks the story for me, but it's an example of the kind of thing that left me scratching my head.

Aah. That question gets answered in The Daylight War, roughly towards the beginning.

Offline DrNefario

Re: What should Raptori read next?
« Reply #103 on: December 12, 2015, 05:30:36 PM »
I liked The Painted Man, but it is one of those books that doesn't really go where I want it to go. Sometimes that can work brilliantly, and sometimes it's frustrating and off-putting. In this case it tends towards the latter. It's still an interesting idea, and I want to see where it goes, but I'm now two books behind, so I guess I'm not exactly desperate.

Offline Raptori

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Re: What should Raptori read next?
« Reply #104 on: December 21, 2015, 02:31:03 AM »
The Aeronaut's Windlass was fun. On to The Thousand Names next!  :P
I wish the world was flat like the old days, then I could travel just by folding a map.

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