November 19, 2019, 11:20:08 AM

Author Topic: What is the fascination of mines in fantasy?  (Read 1344 times)

Online Eclipse

  • Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 120 days.
  • Dragonrider
  • ***
  • Posts: 4329
  • Total likes: 2175
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
What is the fascination of mines in fantasy?
« on: September 13, 2019, 08:46:30 AM »
I’ve gotten bored of mines , I don’t think any have been that exciting. In most fantasy books we have to have a mine scene now?

Also bored of the Hero teaching schools Magic or weapons.

Anyone else had enough of brothels in their fantasy too. The tart with the heart of gold.

What are you bored of seeing in fantasy books?
According to some,* heroic deaths are admirable things

* Generally those who don't have to do it.Politicians and writers spring to mind

Jonathan Stroud:Ptolmy's Gate

Offline S. K. Inkslinger

Re: What is the fascination of mines in fantasy?
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2019, 08:55:34 AM »
I mean, Harry Potter sold like 450 million copies, so if people are going for magic school that made a damn lot of sense. And brothels are like pretty much around us ever since human ever started their civilization and stuff. Heck a lot of human males around the globe still think a lot about it daily.

I'm bored of the world sucks, everyone is an ass grimdark vibes that are everywhere nowadays. Where's some good humor like Good Omens or The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy these days?

Online Eclipse

  • Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 120 days.
  • Dragonrider
  • ***
  • Posts: 4329
  • Total likes: 2175
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: What is the fascination of mines in fantasy?
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2019, 09:03:29 AM »
It’s mostly the weapon training that I’m mostly bored off It’s always the same.
According to some,* heroic deaths are admirable things

* Generally those who don't have to do it.Politicians and writers spring to mind

Jonathan Stroud:Ptolmy's Gate

Offline Neveesandeh

Re: What is the fascination of mines in fantasy?
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2019, 11:36:09 AM »
I haven't had time to read for a while, but I've read a few newer books and I don't really think they had any mines in them. I guess 'The Poppy War' had a big underground prison, which sort of counts.

Brothels seem to be ever present, though, and usually, I think, far more santized than they deserve to be.

As for sword and magic training, I guess if you have a young protagonist, and most fantasy books do, then it's usually essential. It's better than someone just being handed their skills and powers on a plate. The genre probably could do with a few older and more experienced protagonists, though. Not every story needs to be shackled to the Hero's Journey.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2019, 01:56:18 PM by Neveesandeh »

Offline DrNefario

Re: What is the fascination of mines in fantasy?
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2019, 02:36:18 PM »
I can't think of any mines except Moria, which didn't really feel very much like a mine.

And I love magic schools or military schools.

Taverns and brothels, though, have never felt very convincing. Like everyone's copying an original that wasn't very authentic in the first place.

Online Yora

Re: What is the fascination of mines in fantasy?
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2019, 08:33:43 PM »
I’ve gotten bored of mines , I don’t think any have been that exciting. In most fantasy books we have to have a mine scene now?

Also bored of the Hero teaching schools Magic or weapons.

Anyone else had enough of brothels in their fantasy too. The tart with the heart of gold.

What are you bored of seeing in fantasy books?

I've got past that point long ago. I think what this really is the "Ref Fair Fantasy" style. It has the looks of 19th century Romantic images of the middle ages, but actually follows 20th century social structures. It can have a charm, but actually evokes nothing about the way people in the premodern past lived and saw the world around them.

Magic schools and thieves guilds are certainly very high in the list for me. Industrial magic also belongs into this category. Worlds in which magic is mass manufactured and found on shelves in stores.

Also fireballs and lighting. If your magic could be imagined to be shot from a sci-fi gun, I'm not interested.

I think I got interested in ancient and medieval warfare shortly after the Lord of the Rings movie, because it really started to bother me how medieval people would have run straight into walls of spears and swords at the head of an army with dozens of rows of enemies before them and dozens of rows of other soldiers behind them. How would anyone think that this isn't guaranteed suicide?
A few months later I knew that nobody ever did. There are no movies or videogames that have even the slightest resemblance of realism when it comes to how premodern battles were fought. Books have the benefit of not having to be very specific in what the masses of soldiers are actually doing, but still most writers seem to be writing battle scenes that are simply impossible.
I'm not even a hardcore military nerd. I just watch a few videos on youtube and occasionally asked some questions on forums. And even I can see that all fantasy battles are completely ridiculous. In fantasy, the only level of warfare realism is the "80s Schwarzenegger movie" level of realism.

Annother thing I can't stand anymore are undead and demonic hordes determined to kill all of humanity for reasons. It worked in The Lord of the Rings, because The Lord of the Rings is about a megalomaniac who thinks he can rebuild Creation better than the gods did. Sauron does not want to kill all humans and elves, he wants to reshape them into the ideal citizens for his ideal world, with no concern for the destruction caused by the process or the wishes of the people. That story made sense and it had a deeper meaning.
But most of fantasy is just copying the things that Tolkien did, without understanding that Tolkien had narrative reasons to include them in the story. This is one of the many examples.
Taverns and brothels, though, have never felt very convincing. Like everyone's copying an original that wasn't very authentic in the first place.
That's exactly what I mean! To me, that's about the definition of what makes something a cliche.

Purely as a personal aesthetic preference, without any judgements of specific quality or executions, that whole Celtic-Germanic thing is leaving me rather cold.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2019, 08:36:58 PM by Yora »
We are not standing on the shoulders of giants, but on a big tower of other dwarves.

Beneath the Leaves of Kaendor

Offline Bender

Re: What is the fascination of mines in fantasy?
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2019, 10:30:59 PM »
What are you bored of seeing in fantasy books?

Meddling Gods.

This seems to be a popular theme that has absolutely no variation at all. The only refreshing version I read recently was in Divine Cities. Malazan had a unique take and Cam Johnston's Traitor God was heading in the right direction. Can't think any book that varies significantly from default theme. Would love some recommendations in this.
Not all those who wander are lost

Offline Peat

Re: What is the fascination of mines in fantasy?
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2019, 11:09:56 PM »
Am I the only person who thinks that the diversity and breadth of the fantasy genre is so wide that just casually flicking through it all makes it pretty difficult to encounter the same thing again and again?

Offline Bender

Re: What is the fascination of mines in fantasy?
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2019, 11:27:54 PM »
Taverns and brothels, though, have never felt very convincing. Like everyone's copying an original that wasn't very authentic in the first place.

That's exactly what I mean! To me, that's about the definition of what makes something a cliche.

How can a tavern be a cliche? It's definition is standard. A place to eat, drink, make merry, sleep. Has tables and bartender and some wenches plus some musicians. Add in a kitchen and food. That's it.

What else do you all expect in a fantasy tavern?
Not all those who wander are lost

Offline Elfy

  • Writing contest regular
  • Powers That Be
  • Big Wee Hag
  • *
  • Posts: 7197
  • Total likes: 758
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Purple Dove House
Re: What is the fascination of mines in fantasy?
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2019, 11:51:48 PM »
Am I the only person who thinks that the diversity and breadth of the fantasy genre is so wide that just casually flicking through it all makes it pretty difficult to encounter the same thing again and again?
No, you’re not. I typically read 3 books at a time, mostly fantasy, and I find myself entertained by the many variations on the theme that authors can come up with.

Offline Neveesandeh

Re: What is the fascination of mines in fantasy?
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2019, 12:34:07 AM »
Am I the only person who thinks that the diversity and breadth of the fantasy genre is so wide that just casually flicking through it all makes it pretty difficult to encounter the same thing again and again?
No, you’re not. I typically read 3 books at a time, mostly fantasy, and I find myself entertained by the many variations on the theme that authors can come up with.

This is something I've started to notice. We're all familiar with the typical fantasy tropes, farm boy chosen one, wise old mentor, stop off in a tavern etc, but thinking back, I haven't actually read any books that completely play them straight for quite a while. There are a few things that will crop up once or twice that bother me, but none of the newer books I've read really feel all that cliche or stale, even those I've disliked.

Offline cupiscent

Re: What is the fascination of mines in fantasy?
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2019, 01:16:20 AM »
I thought the title said "What is the fascination of mimes in fantasy?" and I was going to say, "Eclipse, what have you been READING??"

Sort of sad now. More mimes!

Online Eclipse

  • Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 120 days.
  • Dragonrider
  • ***
  • Posts: 4329
  • Total likes: 2175
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: What is the fascination of mines in fantasy?
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2019, 07:24:08 AM »
I thought the title said "What is the fascination of mimes in fantasy?" and I was going to say, "Eclipse, what have you been READING??"

Sort of sad now. More mimes!

Yes those too mimes have become very old hat 🎩 to me  if I read about another one I will scream silently with dread.
According to some,* heroic deaths are admirable things

* Generally those who don't have to do it.Politicians and writers spring to mind

Jonathan Stroud:Ptolmy's Gate

Offline Lanko

  • Sherlanko Holmes, Jiin Wei and Writing Contest Regular
  • Writing Group
  • Khaleesi
  • *
  • Posts: 2875
  • Total likes: 1966
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Lanko's Goodreads
Re: What is the fascination of mines in fantasy?
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2019, 07:41:55 AM »
I’ve gotten bored of mines , I don’t think any have been that exciting. In most fantasy books we have to have a mine scene now?

Also bored of the Hero teaching schools Magic or weapons.

Anyone else had enough of brothels in their fantasy too. The tart with the heart of gold.

What are you bored of seeing in fantasy books?

Only mines I remember are Moria and another one over lots of books... I think maybe instead of mines you meant ancient ruins? Yeah, those appear everywhere.

I never saw the Hero teaching magic or weapons, mostly were actually learning  ;D ... but even then, what exactly bothers you in their training? What good training did you read about?

Brothels... it's funny because they were a great part of life in those days, but they seem so cringe and awkward when written. I can't exactly pinpoint why though.

What I'm mostly tired of is people learning magic and then turning into Dragon Ball Z mode when fighting. Maybe I'm just being unlucky but a lot of battles involving magic that I recently remember seemed to me more like a video game script or a Bleach episode.
Slow and steady wins the race.

Lanko's Year in Books 2019

Offline S. K. Inkslinger

Re: What is the fascination of mines in fantasy?
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2019, 08:10:54 AM »
more like a video game script or a Bleach episode.

Send those recommendations my way, hahah. I love battles like Bleach episodes.  ;D