June 19, 2019, 10:16:42 PM

Poll

What genre are superheroes and zombies

Fantasy
0 (0%)
Fiction
1 (16.7%)
Sci-fi
1 (16.7%)
Separate segment (i.e. Non illustrative comic)
4 (66.7%)

Total Members Voted: 6

Author Topic: Superheroes and Zombies - Fantasy, Sci-Fi or neither?  (Read 680 times)

Online J.R. Darewood

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Re: Superheroes and Zombies - Fantasy, Sci-Fi or neither?
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2019, 10:26:04 PM »
Superhero genre, for me, is defined by a narcissistic style of pro-protagonist myopia embedded within the narrative, an overwrought struggle that really doesn't feel like a legitimate struggle, shallow self-discovery, and male mary-sues that are given some sort of superficial flaw or weakness that isn't really a flaw.

It occurs to me that I have been sharp tongued and possibly unpleasant.

I was reading Charles Bukowski last night. Maybe that was it.


I like how you don't actually say you were wrong  :P

Haha, I think the overwhelming avalanche of marvel and DC movies and their respective cookie-cutters have unfairly poisoned me towards superheroes at this point.  I haven't read Leigh Bardugo's wonderwoman book, for example, which I'm sure is great.  The thing is, ideologically, concept itself gives me the same sort of uncomfortable feeling that biopics do: this lingering doubt that you will be able to get a true story with your nose so far up the a#s of your protagonist.

But perhaps I *am* wrong about the movies as well.  My old crotchety a#s just finally got around to watching Spider-man: Into the Spider-verse and OH MY GOD THAT WAS THE BEST THING I'VE EVER SEEN.  That said I'm very biased towards Spider-man as being the best of the comic book superheroes (or not, my love of Spiderman made it impossible for me enjoy the live-action movies... but they really nailed the core of the character for the first time in this one), and stuff with vulnerable child-protagoinsts always gets my heartstrings, but oh my god just from a storytelling perspective it was so incredibly brilliant, even the twists I saw coming still managed to twist the hell out of my insides.  So many brilliant full-circles, call backs, and repeated-but-transformed story elements happening at once:

Too vague to be spoilers but just in case:
Spoiler for Hiden:
Fisk and his family, Morales and fat-peter's farewells, the no-expectations graffiti (both in the-violation-of-sacred-space of his graffiti sanctuary, and the notebook.. the only one that didn't fly for me was the shoulder tap

On top of that the brilliant mix of comic elements into the animation, and the absolutely gorgeous color palette.  Holy f#$k it was good.

Anyways @Elfy apologies if I've been a little sharp-tongued in my disagreements of late.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2019, 10:28:57 PM by J.R. Darewood »

Offline Peat

Re: Superheroes and Zombies - Fantasy, Sci-Fi or neither?
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2019, 10:59:30 PM »
Superhero genre, for me, is defined by a narcissistic style of pro-protagonist myopia embedded within the narrative, an overwrought struggle that really doesn't feel like a legitimate struggle, shallow self-discovery, and male mary-sues that are given some sort of superficial flaw or weakness that isn't really a flaw.

It occurs to me that I have been sharp tongued and possibly unpleasant.

I was reading Charles Bukowski last night. Maybe that was it.


I like how you don't actually say you were wrong  :P

Haha, I think the overwhelming avalanche of marvel and DC movies and their respective cookie-cutters have unfairly poisoned me towards superheroes at this point.  I haven't read Leigh Bardugo's wonderwoman book, for example, which I'm sure is great.  The thing is, ideologically, concept itself gives me the same sort of uncomfortable feeling that biopics do: this lingering doubt that you will be able to get a true story with your nose so far up the a#s of your protagonist.

But perhaps I *am* wrong about the movies as well.  My old crotchety a#s just finally got around to watching Spider-man: Into the Spider-verse and OH MY GOD THAT WAS THE BEST THING I'VE EVER SEEN.  That said I'm very biased towards Spider-man as being the best of the comic book superheroes (or not, my love of Spiderman made it impossible for me enjoy the live-action movies... but they really nailed the core of the character for the first time in this one), and stuff with vulnerable child-protagoinsts always gets my heartstrings, but oh my god just from a storytelling perspective it was so incredibly brilliant, even the twists I saw coming still managed to twist the hell out of my insides.  So many brilliant full-circles, call backs, and repeated-but-transformed story elements happening at once:


Well, hey, I didn't say I was disagreeing with you either :P It was indeed a very sharp way to put it, but at the end of the day there's an awful lot of adolescent male power fantasy in superheroes. I'll stand here all day and defend the right for young men to have their power fantasy stories too, particularly when they're as wholesome and altruistic as a lot of superhero stories are; but a spade's a spade. And as far as I can tell, Wonder Woman is basically there for women who want to have the exact same power fantasies. And, well, power fantasies are ultimately a little narcissistic and generally involve struggles that aren't really struggles and what not.

Still, some astonishing and subversive things have been done with the genre, and part of me would like to poll grimdark authors on their childhood reading and see how many of them had Alan Moore comics in there; I don't think there has ever been a finer storyteller for taking stories about "mythical" characters and making them human, while still retaining the interest levels.
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