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Author Topic: New Jim Butcher Epic / Steampunk / Sci-Fi Series on way...  (Read 6422 times)

Offline Arry

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Re: New Jim Butcher Epic / Steampunk / Sci-Fi Series on way...
« Reply #30 on: November 22, 2015, 01:36:30 PM »
You've made me put this at the bottom of the TBR pile

Yep. I've had a copy for a while, but the size of it was a bit of a deterrent (plus the fact I couldn't finish Storm Front, and steampunk is hit or miss for me). So I've been waiting to hear reactions before investing time to read it. Sounds meh, I'll keep it on the TBR, as I'll never really know until I read it, but it's likely so far down that I don't see myself reading any time/year soon.
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Offline Ryan Mueller

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Re: New Jim Butcher Epic / Steampunk / Sci-Fi Series on way...
« Reply #31 on: November 22, 2015, 05:31:37 PM »
I'm really surprised by all the negative reviews here. I thought it was great.

Offline Elfy

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Re: New Jim Butcher Epic / Steampunk / Sci-Fi Series on way...
« Reply #32 on: November 22, 2015, 08:33:23 PM »
You've made me put this at the bottom of the TBR pile

Yep. I've had a copy for a while, but the size of it was a bit of a deterrent (plus the fact I couldn't finish Storm Front, and steampunk is hit or miss for me). So I've been waiting to hear reactions before investing time to read it. Sounds meh, I'll keep it on the TBR, as I'll never really know until I read it, but it's likely so far down that I don't see myself reading any time/year soon.
It's not really steampunk. It has air ships and some more advanced weapons, but it's really a secondary world epic fantasy.
I will expand your TBR pile.

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Offline Raptori

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Re: New Jim Butcher Epic / Steampunk / Sci-Fi Series on way...
« Reply #33 on: November 22, 2015, 09:04:37 PM »
You've made me put this at the bottom of the TBR pile

Yep. I've had a copy for a while, but the size of it was a bit of a deterrent (plus the fact I couldn't finish Storm Front, and steampunk is hit or miss for me). So I've been waiting to hear reactions before investing time to read it. Sounds meh, I'll keep it on the TBR, as I'll never really know until I read it, but it's likely so far down that I don't see myself reading any time/year soon.
It's not really steampunk. It has air ships and some more advanced weapons, but it's really a secondary world epic fantasy.
Not to mention there's no steam power there, or complex machinery, or most of those more fundamental trappings of steampunk. Definitely a secondary world fantasy (whether it's in the epic genre or not is debateable), just with a really unusual world. As Bea realised, the airships are more like submarines than blimps in terms of how they work, which makes them both easy to understand and very believable.  :)
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Offline Nora

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Re: New Jim Butcher Epic / Steampunk / Sci-Fi Series on way...
« Reply #34 on: November 23, 2015, 12:10:03 AM »
You've made me put this at the bottom of the TBR pile

Yep. I've had a copy for a while, but the size of it was a bit of a deterrent (plus the fact I couldn't finish Storm Front, and steampunk is hit or miss for me). So I've been waiting to hear reactions before investing time to read it. Sounds meh, I'll keep it on the TBR, as I'll never really know until I read it, but it's likely so far down that I don't see myself reading any time/year soon.

I honestly didn't find the size a hindrance. I mean, to me it was a fast read. It took me in, and despite some aggravating and eye rolling moments, I read along without truly tiring of it.
It's sufficiently fast paced and action based.
But, at the end, it's like a meal that went down properly, but still manages to leave you hungry : the character development wasn't there, even the magic was only hinted at, and by no means limited or developed as you'd wish (I mean, it falls awkwardly between 'explained' and 'mysterious', sort of not respecting Sanderson's laws, which are becoming more and more correct in my eyes), ect.

On the very first chapters, I almost put the bloody book down because of the voice given by the narration of what's-her-name-elisabeth? - man, she comes across as SUCH an unrealistic character!
Butcher tries to sell you a young lady of strong character, fine breeding, and intelligent and sharp, through a big tantrum provoked in the most obvious ways with the most ridiculous ploys by her mother.
You know the trick of reversed psychology? Pulling on the cow's tail to make it want to go forward?
How impressed with a character are you when she fails to see how obviously her tail's being pulled, who is made to not know things that have been public knowledge since before her birth? It made her a petulant character reacting instead of acting, and falling in such an implausible scheme that it bode ill for the rest of the book.

It's the worst bit I think character-wise. After that it's just a lot of not caring. Even the Captain Grim fell short for me, because he's too damn perfect. Too good, too valiant, too proper. Now that I'm busy re-reading Master and Commander, I sure see the difference. A good, valiant captain is still meant to be a flawed human, especially in corps like the navy.

In the end it's easy to criticise, easy to be disappointed, but it read itself in 3-4 days. (though I've got no family to be pestered by  :P)
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Offline Lady_Ty

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Re: New Jim Butcher Epic / Steampunk / Sci-Fi Series on way...
« Reply #35 on: November 23, 2015, 12:25:59 AM »
Quote
On the very first chapters, I almost put the bloody book down because of the voice given by the narration of what's-her-name-elisabeth? - man, she comes across as SUCH an unrealistic character!
Butcher tries to sell you a young lady of strong character, fine breeding, and intelligent and sharp, through a big tantrum provoked in the most obvious ways with the most ridiculous ploys by her mother.
You know the trick of reversed psychology? Pulling on the cow's tail to make it want to go forward?
How impressed with a character are you when she fails to see how obviously her tail's being pulled, who is made to not know things that have been public knowledge since before her birth? It made her a petulant character reacting instead of acting, and falling in such an implausible scheme that it bode ill for the rest of the book.

Spot on, Nora, exactly all that, contrived and not even original.  Such a bad start I suspect it coloured how I went on reading. Maybe one day I'll try again but not yet.
I imagine arguments being swallowed back, wine spit in glasses and gurgling up bottles. I imagine my ring sliding off my finger, Bobby's lips hot on mine for the first time again, and then unknown to me.
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Offline ClintACK

Re: New Jim Butcher Epic / Steampunk / Sci-Fi Series on way...
« Reply #36 on: November 23, 2015, 01:57:17 AM »
I'm one of the few who was hooked on Dresden from Storm Front, but if anyone has read Side Jobs, the short story collection, you can really see the evolution of Harry as a character and Butcher as a writer through the stories in it.

I've only read the first 5 or so of Drseden and enjoyed every one.
I think I'm not very discerning.   ???

Me three.

I really enjoyed Storm Front -- but there are a bunch of Urban Fantasy series out there that start as strong as Storm Front.  But so far, for me, those others all get weaker as they go on.  It was about the time I was reading Summer Knight that it hit me how much better the Dresden Files get as they go along.  (11 and 12, Turn Coat and Changes, are my favorites.)


Offline Arry

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Re: New Jim Butcher Epic / Steampunk / Sci-Fi Series on way...
« Reply #37 on: November 24, 2015, 12:27:19 AM »
You've made me put this at the bottom of the TBR pile

Yep. I've had a copy for a while, but the size of it was a bit of a deterrent (plus the fact I couldn't finish Storm Front, and steampunk is hit or miss for me). So I've been waiting to hear reactions before investing time to read it. Sounds meh, I'll keep it on the TBR, as I'll never really know until I read it, but it's likely so far down that I don't see myself reading any time/year soon.

I honestly didn't find the size a hindrance. I mean, to me it was a fast read. It took me in, and despite some aggravating and eye rolling moments, I read along without truly tiring of it.
It's sufficiently fast paced and action based.
But, at the end, it's like a meal that went down properly, but still manages to leave you hungry : the character development wasn't there, even the magic was only hinted at, and by no means limited or developed as you'd wish (I mean, it falls awkwardly between 'explained' and 'mysterious', sort of not respecting Sanderson's laws, which are becoming more and more correct in my eyes), ect.

On the very first chapters, I almost put the bloody book down because of the voice given by the narration of what's-her-name-elisabeth? - man, she comes across as SUCH an unrealistic character!
Butcher tries to sell you a young lady of strong character, fine breeding, and intelligent and sharp, through a big tantrum provoked in the most obvious ways with the most ridiculous ploys by her mother.
You know the trick of reversed psychology? Pulling on the cow's tail to make it want to go forward?
How impressed with a character are you when she fails to see how obviously her tail's being pulled, who is made to not know things that have been public knowledge since before her birth? It made her a petulant character reacting instead of acting, and falling in such an implausible scheme that it bode ill for the rest of the book.

It's the worst bit I think character-wise. After that it's just a lot of not caring. Even the Captain Grim fell short for me, because he's too damn perfect. Too good, too valiant, too proper. Now that I'm busy re-reading Master and Commander, I sure see the difference. A good, valiant captain is still meant to be a flawed human, especially in corps like the navy.

In the end it's easy to criticise, easy to be disappointed, but it read itself in 3-4 days. (though I've got no family to be pestered by  :P)

I read plenty of long books, it's just that since I wasn't as sure about it, the size made it feel like more of a commitment than if it were shorter and prevented me from picking it up in the first place. And characters that are a bit over done are ones I have a hard time with. I don't know if that made any sense :) I think since I had a less than stellar experience with Butcher in the past, I was less motivated to pick this one up that was so much longer than the one I DNF'd.  :D
« Last Edit: November 24, 2015, 12:29:34 AM by Arry »
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Offline Nora

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Re: New Jim Butcher Epic / Steampunk / Sci-Fi Series on way...
« Reply #38 on: November 24, 2015, 06:37:56 AM »
Oh it makes perfect sense. I've had the same previous struggle with Butcher, indeed putting down storm front out of mild exasperation, so I think the bottom of the tbr is just as well, I only wanted to point out that for a big book full of faults, it still reads well.
I just finished a 500 pages book that took me overall longer to read than the Aeronaut, but was much more satisfying.
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Wishy washy lyricism and maudlin unrequited love are my specialty - so said Lady_Ty

Offline Hedin

Re: New Jim Butcher Epic / Steampunk / Sci-Fi Series on way...
« Reply #39 on: November 25, 2015, 12:16:03 AM »
I just finished the book and while I wouldn't put it in the "great"  category it was a fairly fast and entertaining read.   I noticed some of the same issues that others brought up but they didn't really bother me while I was reading.   Well except for the cat stuff, I kind of felt like Butcher just wanted to write about cats and those scenes did little for me.  I'll read the next book when it comes out but I won't be in any kind of rush to get to it.

Offline Ryan Mueller

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Re: New Jim Butcher Epic / Steampunk / Sci-Fi Series on way...
« Reply #40 on: November 25, 2015, 05:04:44 AM »
I still don't get all the hate for this book on here. It looks like the vast majority of readers have loved it. Or is it more that it's not as great as Butcher's other books? That I might understand.

Then again, maybe I was just having so much fun reading it that I didn't notice its faults.

Offline Nora

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Re: New Jim Butcher Epic / Steampunk / Sci-Fi Series on way...
« Reply #41 on: November 25, 2015, 05:34:03 AM »
I still don't get all the hate for this book on here. It looks like the vast majority of readers have loved it. Or is it more that it's not as great as Butcher's other books? That I might understand.

Then again, maybe I was just having so much fun reading it that I didn't notice its faults.

Lots of people also have different levels of tolerance and exigency. It's a book I would have enjoyed more ten years ago, when I cared a little bit less for depth of character and emotional involvement.
"She will need coffee soon, or molecular degeneration will set in. Her French phrasing will take over even more strongly, and soon she will dissolve into a puddle of alienation and Kierkegaardian despair."  ~ Jmack

Wishy washy lyricism and maudlin unrequited love are my specialty - so said Lady_Ty

Offline Hedin

Re: New Jim Butcher Epic / Steampunk / Sci-Fi Series on way...
« Reply #42 on: November 25, 2015, 01:08:41 PM »
I still don't get all the hate for this book on here. It looks like the vast majority of readers have loved it. Or is it more that it's not as great as Butcher's other books? That I might understand.

Then again, maybe I was just having so much fun reading it that I didn't notice its faults.

Lots of people also have different levels of tolerance and exigency. It's a book I would have enjoyed more ten years ago, when I cared a little bit less for depth of character and emotional involvement.

I prefer reading books that have better character development, a greyer Grim would have been far more interesting.   Still for me it's nice to just go for something that maybe isn't as serious every now and then for just pure entertainment.   Granted if the characters bug you enough you will not enjoy a book regardless but I have always been able to ignore that (or at least look past it) if I find the plot entertaining.

Offline Lady_Ty

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Re: New Jim Butcher Epic / Steampunk / Sci-Fi Series on way...
« Reply #43 on: November 25, 2015, 10:20:08 PM »
I still don't get all the hate for this book on here. It looks like the vast majority of readers have loved it. Or is it more that it's not as great as Butcher's other books? That I might understand.

Then again, maybe I was just having so much fun reading it that I didn't notice its faults.

Didn't mean to sound like hate, that's too strong, but for me was disappointment after huge anticipation of a Dresden fan. Didn't expect any depth because Butcher writes generally lightweight. Just different preferences and as Nora says differing levels of tolerance of certain aspects in any book.
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Offline Elfy

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Re: New Jim Butcher Epic / Steampunk / Sci-Fi Series on way...
« Reply #44 on: November 26, 2015, 05:29:09 AM »
I still don't get all the hate for this book on here. It looks like the vast majority of readers have loved it. Or is it more that it's not as great as Butcher's other books? That I might understand.

Then again, maybe I was just having so much fun reading it that I didn't notice its faults.

Didn't mean to sound like hate, that's too strong, but for me was disappointment after huge anticipation of a Dresden fan. Didn't expect any depth because Butcher writes generally lightweight. Just different preferences and as Nora says differing levels of tolerance of certain aspects in any book.
It's certainly not hate, maybe some disappointment. My main feeling so far is that it's very bland on every level.
I will expand your TBR pile.

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