September 17, 2019, 03:54:48 AM

Author Topic: Miscellaneous Musings about Books  (Read 237009 times)

Offline ScarletBea

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Re: Miscellaneous Musings about Books
« Reply #1395 on: July 26, 2019, 07:46:03 AM »
Always find it weird that a Wizard evokes a positive emotion whilst a Witch evokes a negative one, even though they are pretty much the different genders of same profession. Perhaps a Warlock might be a better term but that's mostly tribal.
Yeah, you're right, it's strange.
Maybe to do with history, with pre-20th century books?
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Offline isos81

Re: Miscellaneous Musings about Books
« Reply #1396 on: July 26, 2019, 08:17:37 AM »
Always find it weird that a Wizard evokes a positive emotion whilst a Witch evokes a negative one, even though they are pretty much the different genders of same profession. Perhaps a Warlock might be a better term but that's mostly tribal.

I felt the same today. Wizards, sorcerers, and magicians hold positive meaning where the witch is negative. The witch descriptions are always like old hags with no teeth, dirty and ill-mannered.

I have never seen a pretty witch IIRC :)
Kallor shrugged. 'I've walked this land when the T'lan Imass were but children. I've commanded armies a hundred thousand strong. I've spread the fire of my wrath across entire continents, and sat alone upon tall thrones. Do you grasp the meaning of this?'

'Yes' said Caladan Brood. 'You never learn'

Offline Bender

Re: Miscellaneous Musings about Books
« Reply #1397 on: July 26, 2019, 10:46:56 AM »

I have never seen a pretty witch IIRC :)

Emma Watson/Hermione
Tilda Swinton/White Witch of Narnia

 8)
Not all those who wander are lost

Offline Eclipse

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Re: Miscellaneous Musings about Books
« Reply #1398 on: July 26, 2019, 10:51:43 AM »
🚽

Bradley ‘s favourite.
According to some,* heroic deaths are admirable things

* Generally those who don't have to do it.Politicians and writers spring to mind

Jonathan Stroud:Ptolmy's Gate

Offline Peat

Re: Miscellaneous Musings about Books
« Reply #1399 on: July 26, 2019, 11:58:03 AM »
Always find it weird that a Wizard evokes a positive emotion whilst a Witch evokes a negative one, even though they are pretty much the different genders of same profession. Perhaps a Warlock might be a better term but that's mostly tribal.

I'd suggest that the historical connotations of each term means they're not quite in the same profession or that if they are, they're in a very broad one with a lot of different specialisms that will mark how people look at them, in the same way that people look at Human Rights Lawyers differently from Criminal Defence Lawyers. Witchcraft isn't a gender specific accusation - or wasn't - it's an accusation of how someone uses their magic and where they get it from. There's plenty of examples of men being accused of witchcraft.
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Offline isos81

Re: Miscellaneous Musings about Books
« Reply #1400 on: July 26, 2019, 11:59:00 AM »

I have never seen a pretty witch IIRC :)

Emma Watson/Hermione
Tilda Swinton/White Witch of Narnia

 8)

Haven't seen Narnia. Is Hermione a witch? I thought she was magician? :)
Kallor shrugged. 'I've walked this land when the T'lan Imass were but children. I've commanded armies a hundred thousand strong. I've spread the fire of my wrath across entire continents, and sat alone upon tall thrones. Do you grasp the meaning of this?'

'Yes' said Caladan Brood. 'You never learn'

Offline Peat

Re: Miscellaneous Musings about Books
« Reply #1401 on: July 26, 2019, 12:32:08 PM »

I have never seen a pretty witch IIRC :)

Emma Watson/Hermione
Tilda Swinton/White Witch of Narnia

 8)

Haven't seen Narnia. Is Hermione a witch? I thought she was magician? :)

All female magic users from Harry Potter are designated as witches.

Whoever's played Elphaba in your local production of Wicked tends to be rocking that green skinned look. Lots of pretty witches in screen and live depictions today.
This is the blog of Peat - http://peatlong.blogspot.co.uk/

Offline Ray McCarthy

Re: Miscellaneous Musings about Books
« Reply #1402 on: July 26, 2019, 05:06:15 PM »
I have never seen a pretty witch IIRC :)
1) You've led a sheltered life.
2) They are as pretty or ugly (to you) as they want to be.
3) It's common to depict any deemed to be evil, hated, feared, other, foreign etc group/person as ugly.

Offline Bender

Re: Miscellaneous Musings about Books
« Reply #1403 on: July 26, 2019, 06:06:25 PM »

I'd suggest that the historical connotations of each term means they're not quite in the same profession or that if they are, they're in a very broad one with a lot of different specialisms that will mark how people look at them, in the same way that people look at Human Rights Lawyers differently from Criminal Defence Lawyers. Witchcraft isn't a gender specific accusation - or wasn't - it's an accusation of how someone uses their magic and where they get it from. There's plenty of examples of men being accused of witchcraft.

I have not come across any defined distinction between a wizard and a witch job profiles yet. Take Harry Potter as an example, they are just female wizards, but that's one of few novels where witches are portrayed in a good person way.

For a wizard, people use a "dark" prefix to indicate a evil user.  Imo witches are by default used in negative manner. This can also be seen in phrase "witch hunt" and I believe the hunt and burning at stake happened more to witches than wizards.

Ofc, there are exceptions as it depends on individual book and magic system, but if you consider it as a stereotype, then it holds true.
Not all those who wander are lost

Offline Bender

Re: Miscellaneous Musings about Books
« Reply #1404 on: July 27, 2019, 12:18:27 AM »
Finished Ririya Revelations. Heir of Novron is stunning. Perfect ending to a good book.

This should have been a duology instead of a trilogy though.

Still lovely.

Spoiler for Hiden:
I was disappointed by Royce turning into Heir...just like Hadarian as Protector. Somehow it sullies their genuine joker in the pack type hero characters. Empresses Modina and Amilia were the surprising revelations in the end.
Not all those who wander are lost

Offline Elfy

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Re: Miscellaneous Musings about Books
« Reply #1405 on: July 27, 2019, 03:06:42 AM »

I have never seen a pretty witch IIRC :)

Emma Watson/Hermione
Tilda Swinton/White Witch of Narnia

 8)
Elizabeth Montgomery/Samantha Stevens (Bewitched TV show, and it was based on Thorne Smith’s The Passionate Witch)
Cher, Michelle Pfeiffer and Susan Sarandon from The Witches of Eastwick also spring to mind.
On the names thing I’ve always thought of warlocks, sorcerers and magicians as rather sinister.
I will expand your TBR pile.

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Offline Eclipse

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Re: Miscellaneous Musings about Books
« Reply #1406 on: July 27, 2019, 06:17:28 AM »

Thought this website might come in handy for hard to get books.

https://www.findbookprices.co.uk/settings/
According to some,* heroic deaths are admirable things

* Generally those who don't have to do it.Politicians and writers spring to mind

Jonathan Stroud:Ptolmy's Gate

Offline Peat

Re: Miscellaneous Musings about Books
« Reply #1407 on: July 27, 2019, 10:09:53 AM »

I'd suggest that the historical connotations of each term means they're not quite in the same profession or that if they are, they're in a very broad one with a lot of different specialisms that will mark how people look at them, in the same way that people look at Human Rights Lawyers differently from Criminal Defence Lawyers. Witchcraft isn't a gender specific accusation - or wasn't - it's an accusation of how someone uses their magic and where they get it from. There's plenty of examples of men being accused of witchcraft.

I have not come across any defined distinction between a wizard and a witch job profiles yet. Take Harry Potter as an example, they are just female wizards, but that's one of few novels where witches are portrayed in a good person way.

For a wizard, people use a "dark" prefix to indicate a evil user.  Imo witches are by default used in negative manner. This can also be seen in phrase "witch hunt" and I believe the hunt and burning at stake happened more to witches than wizards.

Ofc, there are exceptions as it depends on individual book and magic system, but if you consider it as a stereotype, then it holds true.

You yourself give a definition right there. Witches are default negative and evil. A Wizard isn't.

Now, there isn't a dictionary definition that defines this difference that is followed by all books, but there is a long history behind the word usage of Witch and Wizard (and all the other variations) and that history makes it abundantly clear that it's not that Witches were female and Wizards were male, it was that Witches were bad and Wizards weren't - not that Wizard was particularly commonly used historically for magic users. Anyone wanting to say that Witches are simply female magic users and Wizards are simply male magic users is being very ahistorical in their approach and shouldn't be surprised it comes with baggage.

And yes, there has been gender slants (at least in the Anglosphere) to them both and there are some interesting questions on how that came to be. But at the base, Witches and Wizards have different connotations because they were practising different types of magic - one invariably evil, the other not.
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Offline Ray McCarthy

Re: Miscellaneous Musings about Books
« Reply #1408 on: July 27, 2019, 04:19:56 PM »
Outside of books and plays, plenty of men accused of being witches in Scotland, England and some mainland European regions.
There is very much more variation as to what a Wizard or Warlock is, both in real life accusations in the past, myths and books.
Certainly Warlocks are not Male witches, nor generally are Wizards, Warlocks and Witches at all related or connected in most historic accusations or old Myth & Legend.
In the past a Magician might have been another name for an Astrologer. Also known as a Magus (Magi plural).
The witches referred to in the Old Testament would have been called Necromancers or Mediums by the 18th / 19th Century. The modern idea of a Medium was actually invented by three sisters in the US in the Victorian era. Almost all Victorian Mediums were exposed. It was also a hobby of Harry Houdini to expose them.
 
Most popular ideas in this area are largely modern fiction from the late 19th Century, some of which is inspired by Shakespeare and collections of folk tales which started in the 17th French Salons.

Offline ScarletBea

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Re: Miscellaneous Musings about Books
« Reply #1409 on: August 03, 2019, 03:46:28 PM »
Wahey, got my library to buy Ed McDonald's Crowfall and I this way I won't have to wait for the paperback ;D
They didn't register my reservation and someone else picked it up the day it arrived, now I have to wait a couple of weeks >:(
I'm number 1 in the queue, and the librarian told me there's already 2 further pending reservation!
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