May 27, 2017, 09:12:47 AM

Author Topic: LGBT Fantasy?  (Read 26557 times)

Offline missoularedhead

Re: LGBT Fantasy?
« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2011, 05:37:35 PM »
Thanks, all, for the recommendations/suggestions.  I was just struck by it, because a friend of mine, who loves SF/F, happens to be gay, and we were talking about it.  We've continued to discuss it, and he's decided that he's going to attempt to write it himself.  He's done some short stories, so we'll see.  Could be interesting!
"Well behaved women rarely make history" ~Laurel Thatcher Ulrich

Cheerwell

  • Guest
Re: LGBT Fantasy?
« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2011, 11:58:37 AM »
The problem I found with LGB(T) fantasy is that a lot of it is, when you get down to it, gratuitous, vomit-inducing romantic trash that's written to titilate rather than educate. Blergh.

I quite enjoyed both of Malinda Lo's fantasy books, Ash followed by its semi-not-quite-prequel Huntress, with the latter arguably being better written than the former. There's also J.A. Pitts' Black Blade series, an urban fantasy about Sarah Beauhall, who's both a blacksmith and lesbian, and aside from the main plot, it deals with her wrestling with her feelings, her sexuality and her past. Amazing series, and I love it. Finally, Elizabeth Moon takes a no-nonsense approach to LGB themes in her books (Having come from, in terms of generations, the same school as Lackey and she is kinda the protege of MacCaffrey, another LGB-friendly author), and she has no problem with writing LGB characters. I remember a rather sweet lesbian couple in the first Paks book, for example. One book, more historical than fantasy, I've heard of is Michael Chabon's The Adventures of Kavalier and Clay (That's probably not the correct title), which has a gay character who is very confused about himself. I think that might work better for a male reader as there might be a bit more connectivity there.

eg Mark Charan Newton, as others have mentioned, has Lan, a man who becomes a woman through cultist technology, etc
Sorry, but I must correct this. Lan is a woman who goes through a reassignment procedure to correct herself. To refer to her as a man is somewhat missing the point, and if you were referring to a real transwoman it could be rather offensive.

Offline Francis Knight

Re: LGBT Fantasy?
« Reply #17 on: July 21, 2011, 03:56:20 PM »
Um, romantic trash?

Plenty of people feel fantasy is trash*, I'd hope you'd have a little more feeling for people reading/writing the genres they enjoy.

I'm not saying all romance is great (plenty I don't like for example) but to call a whole genre/theme trash....there are good and bad examples of everything.


*I write romantic fantasy. I get looked down on by everyone! The can go stick it, far as I'm concerned. Pirates of the Caribbean was romantic fantasy. Did quite well at the box office, I recall :D


/end pet peeve

Anyway, I saw this little compilation that might get you started: http://ask.metafilter.com/159226/SFF-books-that-feature-lesbians-as-main-characters

Also a lot of smaller presses have SFF that isn't shy about LGBT characters.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2011, 04:00:00 PM by Julia Knight »
My tongue has been in my cheek for so long, I've eroded a new mouth.


Duellists Trilogy (as Julia Knight) coming soon from Orbit!

http://www.juliaknight.co.uk/

Offline jdiddyesquire

Re: LGBT Fantasy?
« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2011, 04:01:35 PM »
Um, romantic trash?

Plenty of people feel fantasy is trash*, I'd hope you'd have a little more feeling for people reading/writing the genres they enjoy.

I'm not saying all romance is great (plenty I don't like for example) but to call a whole genre/theme trash....there are good and bad examples of everything.


*I write romantic fantasy. I get looked down on by everyone! The can go stick it, far as I'm concerned. Pirates of the Caribbean was romantic fantasy. Did quite well at the box office, I recall :D


/end pet peeve

Anyway, I saw this little compilation that might get you started: http://ask.metafilter.com/159226/SFF-books-that-feature-lesbians-as-main-characters

Also a lot of smaller presses have SFF that isn't shy about LGBT characters.

Some larger press too.  See Richard Morgan's The Steel Remains.
Justin
My reviews and other malarkey:
http://staffersmusings.blogspot.com
Twitter: @jdiddyesquire
Goodreads: http://www.goodreads.com/user/show/1652081-justin

Offline Funky Scarecrow

Re: LGBT Fantasy?
« Reply #19 on: July 21, 2011, 05:21:48 PM »
Um, romantic trash?

Plenty of people feel fantasy is trash*, I'd hope you'd have a little more feeling for people reading/writing the genres they enjoy.

I'm not saying all romance is great (plenty I don't like for example) but to call a whole genre/theme trash....there are good and bad examples of everything.


*I write romantic fantasy. I get looked down on by everyone! The can go stick it, far as I'm concerned. Pirates of the Caribbean was romantic fantasy. Did quite well at the box office, I recall :D


/end pet peeve

Anyway, I saw this little compilation that might get you started: http://ask.metafilter.com/159226/SFF-books-that-feature-lesbians-as-main-characters

Also a lot of smaller presses have SFF that isn't shy about LGBT characters.

Don't run from the term "trash", embrace it. Roll around in it until you're smothered in it from split ends to to toenails. Snuggle your shoulders into the gutter as if it's the softest mattress in creation and then, to paraphrase Oscar Wilde, write about the stars. Writers of trash don't need to constrain themselves with an expectation of formality, normality or reality. The lofty penthouses of the ivory towers of Quality Writing may smell a little cleaner, they might even look a little prettier, but the gutter is where the action and the fun take place.

Crawl on your belly through the filth, droppings and broken things that others throw away; gather them to yourself until you think the stench will never wash off, then polish them until they shine as brightly as any gemstone or expensive trinket. With the right equipment and technique, anyone can polish a crystal goblet until it dazzles all who look on it. It takes a special kind of talent to make a broken shot glass shine as brightly as diamonds.
I am NOT short. I'm further away than I look.

Offline Francis Knight

Re: LGBT Fantasy?
« Reply #20 on: July 21, 2011, 05:33:06 PM »
Um...okay...


<<

>>

Or I could see genre as the medium I use to tell my story, not the indicator of whether what I write/the stories I tell are trash or not.  ;)
My tongue has been in my cheek for so long, I've eroded a new mouth.


Duellists Trilogy (as Julia Knight) coming soon from Orbit!

http://www.juliaknight.co.uk/

Cheerwell

  • Guest
Re: LGBT Fantasy?
« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2011, 08:31:07 PM »
Um, romantic trash?

Plenty of people feel fantasy is trash*, I'd hope you'd have a little more feeling for people reading/writing the genres they enjoy.
Plenty of people get ignored by me, too. I'm sorry if I offended you, but I have an intense hatred for romance books that disguise themselves as anything but. I've been stung by interesting looking books only to find the strong female protagonist becomes a quivering pile of jelly the first time she lays eyes on a man. Romance is the one thing I find most commonly screwed up in books, and it contributed quite strongly to my dislike of Trudi Canavan's The Black Magician. If you're going to write romance books, fine, I honestly don't have a problem with that genre. My problem lies, mostly, with romance masquerading as something else. That is what gets me irate.

Offline missoularedhead

Re: LGBT Fantasy?
« Reply #22 on: July 21, 2011, 09:16:38 PM »
Thank you.  I have been trying to pinpoint why Canavan's trilogy didn't work for me, and I think that's it.  Also, why I was so disappointed by Wise Man's Fear...come on, she's queen of the fairies, and she picks a teenage boy?  REALLY? 
"Well behaved women rarely make history" ~Laurel Thatcher Ulrich

Cheerwell

  • Guest
Re: LGBT Fantasy?
« Reply #23 on: July 21, 2011, 09:31:47 PM »
I have been trying to pinpoint why Canavan's trilogy didn't work for me, and I think that's it.
I'll spoiler it:
Spoiler for Hiden:
Canavan pulled a Paks in that Sonea was, seemingly, almost asexual. She didn't show any interest in anyone beyond a slightly close friendship. That changed in book 2 when she fell for Rothen's son, which I felt was quite acceptable, but it was the final book where Sonea fell in love (And eventually carried) Akkarin's child that I got severely pissed off with the books. It didn't make sense, it didn't seem right and it was, worst of all, badly written. Sonea went from intelligent and independent to all mushy and useless over Ak.

Offline missoularedhead

Re: LGBT Fantasy?
« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2011, 09:33:35 PM »
YES! That's it.  The whole 'hey, let's take a strong independent woman and turn her into a puddle just because there's a penis in her life now'.
"Well behaved women rarely make history" ~Laurel Thatcher Ulrich

Cheerwell

  • Guest
Re: LGBT Fantasy?
« Reply #25 on: July 21, 2011, 09:36:12 PM »
YES! That's it.  The whole 'hey, let's take a strong independent woman and turn her into a puddle just because there's a penis in her life now'.
Please don't make me choke on my Pepsi. It's not cool.

Offline Francis Knight

Re: LGBT Fantasy?
« Reply #26 on: July 21, 2011, 11:02:02 PM »
Um, romantic trash?

Plenty of people feel fantasy is trash*, I'd hope you'd have a little more feeling for people reading/writing the genres they enjoy.
Plenty of people get ignored by me, too. I'm sorry if I offended you, but I have an intense hatred for romance books that disguise themselves as anything but. I've been stung by interesting looking books only to find the strong female protagonist becomes a quivering pile of jelly the first time she lays eyes on a man. Romance is the one thing I find most commonly screwed up in books, and it contributed quite strongly to my dislike of Trudi Canavan's The Black Magician. If you're going to write romance books, fine, I honestly don't have a problem with that genre. My problem lies, mostly, with romance masquerading as something else. That is what gets me irate.

Oh, badly done romance/romance shoehorned into a perfectly good 'other genre' plot isn't my cuppa either (can't comment on the Canavan thing, never read it) Or women who are just waiting for someone's manly manly man love to feel complete. I want to slap them.

I just get fed up with being trashed for what I write, whether I do romance or fantasy. *sigh* Then again, when I write romance, no one turns into a puddle of anything. I'm writing one now (not a romance, but it has elements) where the FMC gets MMC  thrown in jail. On purpose :D she's no one's puddle!

Thing is, there IS crap fantasy out there (Slave girls of Gor anyone?), fantasy that completely and utterly neuters men (no women appear to inhabit the world except as bar wenches or prostitutes, and the guys don't even notice them, not even to think 'Wow, she looks hot'. To ignore it it even look at them like they have all had their libido removed at birth...They aren't men, they're robots!)


And there IS crap romance out there (all heaving breasts and men behaving like women only with dicks)

But the problem isn't the genre, or the inclusion of a romance sub plot. It's the execution (and personal preference. I utterly adore fantasy with a well handled romantic sub plot. However, so many writers don't do the 'well handled' bit...For 'well handled' read not stupidly soppy.)

 Romance/sex/love is one of the big motivators (along with power and death) To ignore it is to ignore a motivator that has caused wars etc, that is a big part of many people's lives. It's ignoring a huge part of being human.

So while I get that some people don't like a romance in their fantasy,(which is fine, and cool) it doesn't make romance crap - it makes it not their thing. And i just get a bit fed up of the 'Oh, well, romance isn't real writing' (I know you didn;t say that, but it felt it was edging that way, and I get prickly). It is.

This is a bit like the time I was told that if I read fantasy I should only 'read the ones with deep, serious literary meaning. Reading escapism makes you lose IQ points like eating MacDonald's makes you fat'. And they were serious. So dragons and elves and zombies are okay, as long as they are symbols for something...??*facepalm*

*takes deep breath*

Can you see why it's a pet peeve?

I'm sure we can agree that badly done ANYTHING is crap :D ETA: And let's just not get started on women in fantasy, the Madonna/whore dichotomy etc.

In teh interests of getting back on topic: http://www.glbtfantasy.com/
« Last Edit: July 21, 2011, 11:09:32 PM by Julia Knight »
My tongue has been in my cheek for so long, I've eroded a new mouth.


Duellists Trilogy (as Julia Knight) coming soon from Orbit!

http://www.juliaknight.co.uk/

Offline Mr Soul

Re: LGBT Fantasy?
« Reply #27 on: July 21, 2011, 11:20:40 PM »
YES! That's it.  The whole 'hey, let's take a strong independent woman and turn her into a puddle just because there's a penis in her life now'.

Hey! You made tea fly outta my nose.

Nicely played.

Offline missoularedhead

Re: LGBT Fantasy?
« Reply #28 on: July 22, 2011, 10:42:33 AM »

Please don't make me choke on my Pepsi. It's not cool.

I apologize!  :)  And it's not often I make tea fly out of anyone's nose!
« Last Edit: July 22, 2011, 10:44:13 AM by missoularedhead »
"Well behaved women rarely make history" ~Laurel Thatcher Ulrich

Cheerwell

  • Guest
Re: LGBT Fantasy?
« Reply #29 on: July 22, 2011, 10:50:43 AM »
I just get fed up with being trashed for what I write, whether I do romance or fantasy. *sigh* Then again, when I write romance, no one turns into a puddle of anything.
If you write fantasy romance and you're clear about that, then I'm not going to hate or trash your work. I'll stay miles away from it, yes, but I won't make a comment. The reason I was so harsh is that when I buy some books, I have expectations for them, and I sometimes feel almost betrayed by romance masquerading as something else. I stopped reading Gail Carriger's Soulless and Phillipa Ballantine's Geist because they were romance books in the guise of steampunk and fantasy respectively, and I was irritated about it. There was also Black & White, a superhero novel about two women, and within pages one of the characters went all mushy over a guy (Apparently it was explained why later, but I wasn't sticking around to find out), and I put it down and never picked it up again.

If you're writing romance, write romance. If you're writing fantasy, write fantasy. If you're writing fantasy romance, write that. Don't try and pass what you're writing off as something else, because it's infuriating. (I'm not saying that's what you do, as I don't know you nor your work).

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