May 28, 2017, 01:17:11 PM

Author Topic: LGBT & Fantasy  (Read 19793 times)

Offline Lor

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Re: LGBT & Fantasy
« Reply #90 on: January 05, 2013, 11:23:49 PM »
I agree - I was appalled to discover that Jacobi was an Oxfordian. I consider it to be rank snobbery, to assume that a grammar school boy with no university education couldn't have been intelligent enough to write brilliant prose.

Everyone knows "Shakespeare" was actually Christopher Marlowe, Francis Bacon and Gwyneth Paltrow, all working together.

I was ready to believe you up until Paltrow, when I was forced to concede that you are insane. Apologies.
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Offline AnneLyle

Re: LGBT & Fantasy
« Reply #91 on: January 06, 2013, 03:54:30 PM »
Back on topic somewhat, I got a hugely enthusiastic comment on my blog today from a trans/queer guy who was overjoyed to discover "his people" in a fantasy novel. Responses like that make my day - but also remind me how far we have to go as a genre, and as a society :(
Elizabethan fantasy trilogy The Alchemist of SoulsThe Merchant of Dreams and The Prince of Lies out now from Angry Robot Books!

Offline Jaedia

Re: LGBT & Fantasy
« Reply #92 on: January 06, 2013, 04:32:01 PM »
"His people"? You're kidding? :(

Offline Doctor_Chill

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Re: LGBT & Fantasy
« Reply #93 on: January 06, 2013, 04:51:23 PM »
*insert movie quote* What do you mean 'You people?'
“It’s a dangerous thing, pretense. A man ought to know who he is, even if he isn’t proud to be it.” - Tomorrow the Killing, Daniel Polansky

Offline AnneLyle

Re: LGBT & Fantasy
« Reply #94 on: January 06, 2013, 10:30:31 PM »
"His people"? You're kidding? :(

No. Why would I be kidding? Am I missing something that's not coming across online?
Elizabethan fantasy trilogy The Alchemist of SoulsThe Merchant of Dreams and The Prince of Lies out now from Angry Robot Books!

Offline Jaedia

Re: LGBT & Fantasy
« Reply #95 on: January 06, 2013, 10:57:47 PM »
"His people"? You're kidding? :(

No. Why would I be kidding? Am I missing something that's not coming across online?

I didn't think you were kidding, figure of speech. I'm a bit confused now though, did I misinterpret something? I just don't like the idea that in this day and age folk still see LGBT folk in a "them and us" light as implied in "his people".

Offline Lor

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Re: LGBT & Fantasy
« Reply #96 on: January 06, 2013, 11:01:37 PM »
"His people"? You're kidding? :(

No. Why would I be kidding? Am I missing something that's not coming across online?

I didn't think you were kidding, figure of speech. I'm a bit confused now though, did I misinterpret something? I just don't like the idea that in this day and age folk still see LGBT folk in a "them and us" light as implied in "his people".

oh very much so. I've often been told to "get back to [my] own kind" when out for the night. Some people can be very shallow-minded about it.

Apparently I confuse people though, as I found out over new year, it's hard to tell what my sexuality is. I have LGBT characters in my work too, because it was naturally the way their characters developed, so I use my real world experience in how they're treated by other characters.
"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and it may be necessary from time to time to give a stupid or misinformed beholder a black eye." - Miss Piggy

Offline AnneLyle

Re: LGBT & Fantasy
« Reply #97 on: January 07, 2013, 06:33:16 AM »
"His people"? You're kidding? :(

No. Why would I be kidding? Am I missing something that's not coming across online?

I didn't think you were kidding, figure of speech. I'm a bit confused now though, did I misinterpret something? I just don't like the idea that in this day and age folk still see LGBT folk in a "them and us" light as implied in "his people".

Ah, I see - the frowny-face didn't convey sarcasm, at least not to me! Brevity online is easily misinterpreted when someone else doesn't know you and has a very different perception of the situation.

Honestly, I didn't consider "his people" (his own words) to be negative - I consider geeks to be "my people" in the same way, in an entirely positive sense i.e. people like me, whom I feel most comfortable around because they understand my wierdnesses :)

Identification with your own in-group is an inevitable and, I think, normal part of human social behaviour - it doesn't have to degenerate into an Us vs Them mentality, though it all too often does.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2013, 06:36:50 AM by AnneLyle »
Elizabethan fantasy trilogy The Alchemist of SoulsThe Merchant of Dreams and The Prince of Lies out now from Angry Robot Books!

Offline Arry

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Re: LGBT & Fantasy
« Reply #98 on: January 07, 2013, 01:21:57 PM »
"His people"? You're kidding? :(

No. Why would I be kidding? Am I missing something that's not coming across online?

I didn't think you were kidding, figure of speech. I'm a bit confused now though, did I misinterpret something? I just don't like the idea that in this day and age folk still see LGBT folk in a "them and us" light as implied in "his people".

Ah, I see - the frowny-face didn't convey sarcasm, at least not to me! Brevity online is easily misinterpreted when someone else doesn't know you and has a very different perception of the situation.

Honestly, I didn't consider "his people" (his own words) to be negative - I consider geeks to be "my people" in the same way, in an entirely positive sense i.e. people like me, whom I feel most comfortable around because they understand my wierdnesses :)

Identification with your own in-group is an inevitable and, I think, normal part of human social behaviour - it doesn't have to degenerate into an Us vs Them mentality, though it all too often does.
I also think there is a distinction in referring to a group of people that you strongly feel a part of and associating them together as "my people" than there is for someone outside that group to refer to them as "his people" .  It's the latter that really creates the Us vs Them.

But yes, ideally, someday, no one will even notice or think twice about. There should be no need for discussion. Sadly, we're not there yet.
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Offline Jaedia

Re: LGBT & Fantasy
« Reply #99 on: January 07, 2013, 01:26:59 PM »
"His people"? You're kidding? :(

No. Why would I be kidding? Am I missing something that's not coming across online?

I didn't think you were kidding, figure of speech. I'm a bit confused now though, did I misinterpret something? I just don't like the idea that in this day and age folk still see LGBT folk in a "them and us" light as implied in "his people".

Ah, I see - the frowny-face didn't convey sarcasm, at least not to me! Brevity online is easily misinterpreted when someone else doesn't know you and has a very different perception of the situation.

Honestly, I didn't consider "his people" (his own words) to be negative - I consider geeks to be "my people" in the same way, in an entirely positive sense i.e. people like me, whom I feel most comfortable around because they understand my wierdnesses :)

Identification with your own in-group is an inevitable and, I think, normal part of human social behaviour - it doesn't have to degenerate into an Us vs Them mentality, though it all too often does.

Not sarcasm so much, more an exclamation of.. surprise? I'm sure somebody else can explain what I'm trying to say better than me! But yes, it's at least good when people understand that something they read on the internet can be interpreted in different ways. :)

I suppose, you do have a point. I'm the same when you put it that way, I'm just so used to thinking of the LGBT group as being equal to everybody else that I don't really think of the folk who like to think of themselves as part of a group because they're LGBT.. but they do, of course. And that's great so long as the negativity doesn't crop up. Which it does.. basically what Arry said.

Quote from: Arry
I also think there is a distinction in referring to a group of people that you strongly feel a part of and associating them together as "my people" than there is for someone outside that group to refer to them as "his people" .  It's the latter that really creates the Us vs Them.

But yes, ideally, someday, no one will even notice or think twice about. There should be no need for discussion. Sadly, we're not there yet.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2013, 01:29:01 PM by Jaedia »

Offline Jian

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Re: LGBT & Fantasy
« Reply #100 on: January 10, 2013, 07:42:31 PM »
You know, when a discussion starts that involves some history, I'm always impressed by some of the history knowledge of the other members. So much so that I disappear for about a week until someone (only one?) messages me on Twitter about it.  ;D

Kidding, of course.

@Chill: I'm quite sure... that that is an Eddie Murphy quote.
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Offline xiagan

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Re: LGBT & Fantasy
« Reply #101 on: January 10, 2013, 08:55:20 PM »
In A Memory of Light in at least two places is offhandedly mentioned that this or that guy prefer men and not women (and no shock or disgust follows this - it's just something normal). That's nothing I remember from the first 13 Wheel of Time books and even if it is only something small, it is something. :)
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Offline Doctor_Chill

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Re: LGBT & Fantasy
« Reply #102 on: January 10, 2013, 11:44:28 PM »

@Chill: I'm quite sure... that that is an Eddie Murphy quote.

See, someone understands me.
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Offline Sam Sykes

Re: LGBT & Fantasy
« Reply #103 on: January 11, 2013, 07:56:34 AM »
I wonder, though, if readers generally expect most societies in fantasy books to be intolerant of homosexuality.  The whole flawed idea of "BUT THAT'S HOW IT WAS LIKE BACK THEN (in that world that never existed outside of our minds)," I feel, kind of lends people to believing that most fantasy adheres to a strict witch-burning perception of homosexuality.

My biggest regret in The Aeons' Gate was a gay character.  Not because of her sexual orientation, but because I didn't give her nearly the attention she deserved or needed as a character.  It didn't come out right.  One more thing for me to work on, I suppose.

Me and everyone else.

Offline Jian

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Re: LGBT & Fantasy
« Reply #104 on: January 11, 2013, 09:20:25 AM »
I have a curious question. Do you feel that you need to (if you have a gay character) write in detail about said character's personality, feelings, etc. or do you feel the need to treat said character the same as any other character?

For example, I have a gay character, but I don't really go into much detail about his thoughts on his orientation or anything like that. Just like I don't have my straight characters wondering constantly why they like a woman. Not to mention most of my characters seem decidedly asexual since I'm not comfortable taking a lot of time and dedicating it to some scenes in the bedroom or anything like that.

And I'm not prepared enough to write a long lasting romance, either.
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