Fantasy Faction

Fantasy Faction => Fantasy Book & Author Discussion => Topic started by: Zziz on February 22, 2011, 06:34:38 AM

Title: Is Tar Valon a vagina?
Post by: Zziz on February 22, 2011, 06:34:38 AM
I know it sounds crude, but I wouldn't have posted it if I didn't think there was some merit to it:

(http://www.wotmud.org/directory/maps/tarvalonmap.gif)

A bit of subtle mischief from Jordan and his mapmaking cronies, or intentional symbolism?
Title: Re: Is Tar Valon a vagina?
Post by: Blodeuedd on February 22, 2011, 06:36:37 AM
 :o :D
Above smileys says it all. If he didn't mean it then well the sure thought about it
Title: Re: Is Tar Valon a vagina?
Post by: missoularedhead on February 22, 2011, 07:12:03 AM
Damn, how did I miss that? Dang.

And my answer is…um, yeah.
Title: Re: Is Tar Valon a vagina?
Post by: Overlord on February 22, 2011, 08:17:46 AM
Surely it was intentional... There is no way that a whole office missed that...
Title: Re: Is Tar Valon a vagina?
Post by: Funky Scarecrow on February 22, 2011, 08:36:44 AM
The round towers* at either end of the island are... appropriately placed... and everything, so that the imagery remains even if you turn the pic upside down. He really wanted that image planted, didn't he?

* They are towers, right? I haven't read much Jordan, so they could be sports stadia, sluice gates (possibly jade ones, judging from the shape of the island), municipal dumps or factories for the construction of humongous mecha and robot dinosaurs, for all I know.
Title: Re: Is Tar Valon a vagina?
Post by: Nighteyes on February 22, 2011, 09:23:45 AM
Fantasy is full of sexual imagery - how else do you explain dark lords living in high towers protuding from shrubbery in the ground?  Small penis complex clearly. 

If you are getting really sick minded though - how about those wizards leading young boys off on quests?  Camping out under the stars, huddled together for warmth at night ....(okay, that's me banned!)
Title: Re: Is Tar Valon a vagina?
Post by: Zziz on February 22, 2011, 08:52:37 PM
The round towers* at either end of the island are... appropriately placed... and everything, so that the imagery remains even if you turn the pic upside down. He really wanted that image planted, didn't he?

* They are towers, right? I haven't read much Jordan, so they could be sports stadia, sluice gates (possibly jade ones, judging from the shape of the island), municipal dumps or factories for the construction of humongous mecha and robot dinosaurs, for all I know.

I think they might be ports.
Title: Re: Is Tar Valon a vagina?
Post by: The Mad Hatter on February 23, 2011, 01:16:07 AM

So maybe the mapmaker/author was trying to include something symbolic. Maybe it was a joke.

Since I haven't read the novel I don't know anything about the plot or why that particular shape might have been chosen. But...

There's a similar island in the second of P.C. Hodgell's Kencryrath series, Dark of Moon. I can't find my copy of the book right now, to look at the map, but part of the book took part on an island in the middle of a river. Erosion is going to produce a shape like that naturally. Go look at maps of river islands, and you'll see what I mean.

Wayne aka The Mad Hatter

Title: Re: Is Tar Valon a vagina?
Post by: The Mad Hatter on February 23, 2011, 01:46:55 AM

Here's an example of a 'vagina' in real life in the Saint Lawrence (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Niagara+Falls,+Ontario,+Canada&aq=0&sll=44.358071,-75.910077&sspn=0.014053,0.038581&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Niagara+Falls,+Niagara,+New+York&ll=45.805829,-73.179932&spn=0.438448,1.234589&t=h&z=10). I used to go fishing a lot with my dad when I was a kid, and we saw a lot of islands like that in Ontario rivers. Yes, this one is a bit too even, but it's not unusual.

Wayne aka The Mad Hatter
Title: Re: Is Tar Valon a vagina?
Post by: billdoor on February 23, 2011, 01:34:24 PM
Oh yes it definitely is isn't it?

Fits in with my idea that the whole WoT is a massive romantic drama disguised as fantasy http://www.iamcurrentlyreading.co.uk/2011/02/22/the-wheel-of-time-is-a-romantic-drama-masquerading-as-fantasy/ (http://www.iamcurrentlyreading.co.uk/2011/02/22/the-wheel-of-time-is-a-romantic-drama-masquerading-as-fantasy/) :D
Title: Re: Is Tar Valon a vagina?
Post by: pornokitsch on February 23, 2011, 06:23:17 PM
I know it sounds crude, but I wouldn't have posted it if I didn't think there was some merit to it:

I feel guilty for laughing this hard.
Title: Re: Is Tar Valon a vagina?
Post by: Khaldun on February 23, 2011, 07:36:21 PM
I lol'd. Never thought I'd see a thread title like this, but it's pretty funny. Thanks
Title: Re: Is Tar Valon a vagina?
Post by: Dornish First Sword on February 24, 2011, 11:15:41 PM
I'm tempted to say no it's not a vagina at all but it is populated with....
Title: Re: Is Tar Valon a vagina?
Post by: darkshiara on February 25, 2011, 06:35:16 PM
It's either a vagina or one of those things from dead space that spits things out at you and to kill them you have to cut off all the arms protruding from the middle =P
Title: Re: Is Tar Valon a vagina?
Post by: Bryndled1 on February 28, 2011, 06:51:21 PM
The round towers* at either end of the island are... appropriately placed... and everything, so that the imagery remains even if you turn the pic upside down. He really wanted that image planted, didn't he?

* They are towers, right? I haven't read much Jordan, so they could be sports stadia, sluice gates (possibly jade ones, judging from the shape of the island), municipal dumps or factories for the construction of humongous mecha and robot dinosaurs, for all I know.

Those are Harbors @ the top and bottom of the island of Tar Valon. The White Tower is actually @ the center of the island w/ all the roads leading to it. But then you could argue about the Phallic symbol rising tall in the heavens in the center....
Title: Re: Is Tar Valon a vagina?
Post by: Zziz on March 01, 2011, 11:59:07 PM
The round towers* at either end of the island are... appropriately placed... and everything, so that the imagery remains even if you turn the pic upside down. He really wanted that image planted, didn't he?

* They are towers, right? I haven't read much Jordan, so they could be sports stadia, sluice gates (possibly jade ones, judging from the shape of the island), municipal dumps or factories for the construction of humongous mecha and robot dinosaurs, for all I know.

Those are Harbors @ the top and bottom of the island of Tar Valon. The White Tower is actually @ the center of the island w/ all the roads leading to it. But then you could argue about the Phallic symbol rising tall in the heavens in the center....

Yeah, but viewed in this map it isn't phallic at all. It's a square.
Title: Re: Is Tar Valon a vagina?
Post by: Bryndled1 on March 02, 2011, 12:02:57 AM
The round towers* at either end of the island are... appropriately placed... and everything, so that the imagery remains even if you turn the pic upside down. He really wanted that image planted, didn't he?

* They are towers, right? I haven't read much Jordan, so they could be sports stadia, sluice gates (possibly jade ones, judging from the shape of the island), municipal dumps or factories for the construction of humongous mecha and robot dinosaurs, for all I know.

Those are Harbors @ the top and bottom of the island of Tar Valon. The White Tower is actually @ the center of the island w/ all the roads leading to it. But then you could argue about the Phallic symbol rising tall in the heavens in the center....

Yeah, but viewed in this map it isn't phallic at all. It's a square.

The White tower is surrounded by a square. its where the petitioners await the pleasure of the Aes Sedai.
Title: Re: Is Tar Valon a vagina?
Post by: Zziz on March 02, 2011, 01:39:20 AM
The pleasure of the Aes Sedai, you say? Perhaps Jordan was on to something with this map.
Title: Re: Is Tar Valon a vagina?
Post by: Darthair on March 02, 2011, 02:11:32 AM
Short answer: Yes, it does look like a vagina.

Long Answer: When an island is formed in the middle of a river, (or when a river splits in two to pass an area water has a hard time braking down) these islands tend to become, over time, diamond shaped. This is due to the laws of physics, as any geologist will surely attest to. Wether or not Rober Jordan is intentionally expressing sexual imaging in his writing, an island in the middle of a river running from north to south should, eventually, look roughly like that.
Title: Re: Is Tar Valon a vagina?
Post by: xinpheld on February 02, 2012, 02:06:24 PM
I'm in the middle of a re-read of the series in prep for the forthcoming finale in November (Light willing), and happened upon the page on my ereader in TDR where the map of Tar Valon is shown, and BLAM! -- vagina (my subsequent search of the Internets on the idea led me here). It occurs to me that it was in fact purposeful, but for symbolic reasons. When Lews Therin loses it in the beginning of the series, it's indicated that the island on which Tar Valon would be built was a by-product of his creating Dragonmount. So what that tells me is that the event was a symbolic end to the unity of the male and female halves of the True Source. The Breaking wasn't just about the world physically, but also about the Power. The phallic and yonic symbols - Dragonmont and Tar Valon, respectively - are physical reminders of that separation.
Title: Re: Is Tar Valon a vagina?
Post by: Autumn2May on February 02, 2012, 02:15:49 PM
I'm in the middle of a re-read of the series in prep for the forthcoming finale in November (Light willing), and happened upon the page on my ereader in TDR where the map of Tar Valon is shown, and BLAM! -- vagina (my subsequent search of the Internets on the idea led me here). It occurs to me that it was in fact purposeful, but for symbolic reasons. When Lews Therin loses it in the beginning of the series, it's indicated that the island on which Tar Valon would be built was a by-product of his creating Dragonmount. So what that tells me is that the event was a symbolic end to the unity of the male and female halves of the True Source. The Breaking wasn't just about the world physically, but also about the Power. The phallic and yonic symbols - Dragonmont and Tar Valon, respectively - are physical reminders of that separation.

I'm glad to see our highbrow threads are drawing more people to the site. XD  Welcome to the forums. ;)

Also, you win for best explanation. :)
Title: Re: Is Tar Valon a vagina?
Post by: xinpheld on February 02, 2012, 02:28:57 PM
OMG, I'm what passes for 'high brow'? I am so sorry. :)

And-- Yay, I win!
Title: Re: Is Tar Valon a vagina?
Post by: EatthePen on February 03, 2012, 12:44:35 AM
Does that make the building of a massive (and somewhat pointless, given that I seem to remember no-one bothers very much with the top half) phallic symbol on andro-symbolic island an attempt at reconciliation, or just irony?

That goes high up on the list of sentences I never thought I'd write...
Title: Re: Is Tar Valon a vagina?
Post by: Bahl on February 03, 2012, 08:15:27 AM
Bloody hell, this made a shitty week bloody brilliant. And yes, Dragonmount is a dong and the Island is a vagina. How many times do we read of dragonmount's shadow falling over Tar Valon? Dum dum dum!!!

Aw hell this is awesome. And I'm a huge Wheel of Time fan. I just had an idea! - Bit spoilerish, so:

When Rand ends up on the Dragonmount at the end of A Gathering Storm, fighting his inner demons and winning, and the sun breaks through to bathe him in a golden light, was that a way to show he is the big dick? This makes that scene a thousand times better. Especially when the ladies in Tar Valon looks at the sun and knows something big happened. Too many lame puns....

Title: Re: Is Tar Valon a vagina?
Post by: Gothos on February 03, 2012, 01:32:00 PM

Too many lame puns....



Keep em coming . . . ;)
Title: Re: Is Tar Valon a vagina?
Post by: xinpheld on February 03, 2012, 02:07:58 PM
Does that make the building of a massive (and somewhat pointless, given that I seem to remember no-one bothers very much with the top half) phallic symbol on andro-symbolic island an attempt at reconciliation, or just irony?

That goes high up on the list of sentences I never thought I'd write...

Perhaps it's a feeble yet graceful attempt at self-gratification. Or a strap-on. Their way of saying that they don't need men to have a good time.
Title: Re: Is Tar Valon a vagina?
Post by: Bahl on February 03, 2012, 02:09:43 PM
Does that make the building of a massive (and somewhat pointless, given that I seem to remember no-one bothers very much with the top half) phallic symbol on andro-symbolic island an attempt at reconciliation, or just irony?

That goes high up on the list of sentences I never thought I'd write...

Perhaps it's a feeble yet graceful attempt at self-gratification. Or a strap-on. Their way of saying that they don't need men to have a good time.

Bwhahahaha!! Fell off my chair just a bit.
Title: Re: Is Tar Valon a vagina?
Post by: Autumn2May on February 03, 2012, 02:26:22 PM
You guys are terrible. XD
Title: Re: Is Tar Valon a vagina?
Post by: SteveThomas on February 04, 2012, 01:16:27 AM
The Spirit Temple from "The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time" went one step farther.

Artwork of the entrance (I had trouble finding a screenshot):

(http://images.wikia.com/zelda/images/1/1f/Spirit_Temple.png)

Note the position of the door in relation to everything else.  Kind of an unfortunate position, but subtle enough that it could be coincidence. 

Let's look at the layout inside.  Keep in mind where the entrance (now marked "Start" on the map) was.

(http://www.unlimitedgamer.net/coverage/oot/images/spiritadultoot.jpg)

Note the first floor (upper right).  It's basically a uterus and Fallopian tubes.

So yes, Link walks into a giant's vagina and fights monsters all throughout her reproductive system.

Title: Re: Is Tar Valon a vagina?
Post by: Hoosay on February 06, 2012, 03:54:58 PM
I was sure I had read something by Brandon Sanderson confirming that the shape was deliberate, but I can't find it and I'm reluctant to go too deeply into the results when I google "Brandon Sanderson wheel of time vagina"  ;)
Title: Re: Is Tar Valon a vagina?
Post by: Elspeth Cooper on February 06, 2012, 05:05:28 PM
To be strictly accurate, the island in question resembles a vulva, rather than a vagina, but don't let that get in the way of the debate. For the record, I can't stop myself wondering if the Oath Rod requires batteries . . . :o
Title: Re: Is Tar Valon a vagina?
Post by: jwest on February 07, 2012, 05:31:27 AM
I think I've cracked a rib, and I'm pretty sure I frightened my dog with my hysterical laughter. I'm gonna have to take a break from this thread for awhile to recover :)
Title: Re: Is Tar Valon a vagina?
Post by: Bahl on February 07, 2012, 07:36:43 AM
To be strictly accurate, the island in question resembles a vulva, rather than a vagina, but don't let that get in the way of the debate. For the record, I can't stop myself wondering if the Oath Rod requires batteries . . . :o

Well done, that's the best thing I've read about all this.
Title: Re: Is Tar Valon a vagina?
Post by: Eclipse on April 05, 2016, 07:57:09 AM
Lol interesting thread which needs to be seen by more people

Weirdest thing I've read since I been here.
Title: Re: Is Tar Valon a vagina?
Post by: Peat on April 05, 2016, 09:20:13 AM
I am basically in awe of this entire thread and am not sure whether I'd prefer it to be true or not.
Title: Re: Is Tar Valon a vagina?
Post by: Rostum on April 05, 2016, 02:04:02 PM
Anyone taken a look at map of ile de la cite lately? There are certain simalarities. Now certain authors you would just say 'of course it is' Jordan would be a 'maybe'.

One of the more thought provoking threads raised from the depths of time.
Title: Re: Is Tar Valon a vagina?
Post by: J.R. Darewood on April 21, 2016, 10:22:38 PM
I can't stop looking at that map of Tar Valon now...
Title: Is Tar Valon a vagina?
Post by: Blackthorn on April 21, 2016, 11:59:11 PM
I only vaguely see it if I squint and turn my head to a 26.324 degree angle
Title: Re: Is Tar Valon a vagina?
Post by: ultamentkiller on April 22, 2016, 02:11:03 AM
Wow. Just... Wow. I haven't started reading this series yet. Now I'm going to be looking for symbolism.
Title: Re: Is Tar Valon a vagina?
Post by: J.R. Darewood on April 30, 2016, 11:37:09 PM
I only vaguely see it if I squint and turn my head to a 26.324 degree angle

It looks EXACTLY like a vagina to me. 
But then again everything looks like a vagina to me.
Title: Re: Is Tar Valon a vagina?
Post by: Mr.J on May 01, 2016, 10:41:59 AM
Just waiting for the cock and balls city to turn up. Looking at you Joe Abercrombie.

Title: Re: Is Tar Valon a vagina?
Post by: Rostum on May 01, 2016, 12:26:44 PM
Quote
Just waiting for the cock and balls city to turn up. Looking at you Joe Abercrombie.

From memory there is a tower on the hill above that casts its shadow over Tar Valon. Is that close enough?
Title: Re: Is Tar Valon a vagina?
Post by: J.R. Darewood on May 23, 2017, 11:39:50 AM
So this topic keeps popping up as the only "Related Topic" to the thread where my WIP is being worked on over in the secret Writing Group area. Every time I read the reviews of the latest chapter my eyes look down and I see "Is Tar Valon a Vagina?" and suddenly I'm entranced by the mystery once again....
Title: Re: Is Tar Valon a vagina?
Post by: JMack on May 24, 2017, 11:56:00 AM
If it is, I really don't want to know what some of the features of this map represent biologically.

(http://i.imgur.com/qhWDUUI.jpg)
Title: Re: Is Tar Valon a vagina?
Post by: night_wrtr on May 24, 2017, 12:33:01 PM
wow this thread  ;D
Title: Re: Is Tar Valon a vagina?
Post by: The Gem Cutter on May 24, 2017, 08:37:16 PM
If it is, I really don't want to know what some of the features of this map represent biologically.

The opportunities that statement presents are almost boundless...
Title: Re: Is Tar Valon a vagina?
Post by: Dark Squiggle on March 29, 2018, 04:33:01 PM
I believe that the main doors of many Gothic Cathedrals where designed to look like/represent vaginas.  So have many cars' grills and hood ornaments, and many other more abstract forms of art Why shouldn't an island do it? We're humans; we feel everything either looks like us, or should look like us. Plus, if you can work something lke that in without anyone catching on enough to complain, I respect you for that.
Title: Re: Is Tar Valon a vagina?
Post by: Skip on March 29, 2018, 04:45:24 PM
Good fun. At the same time, this is pretty much how river islands form. There are lots of examples. So it can be both geologically true and metaphorically true.