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Author Topic: Hugo Awards 2015 Controversy & Sad Puppies  (Read 14634 times)

Offline Saraband

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Hugo Awards 2015 Controversy & Sad Puppies
« on: April 08, 2015, 12:42:41 PM »
So, another year, another controversy surrounding the Hugo Awards.

Quote
Members of the sci-fi and fantasy community have been arguing about the make-up of this year’s Hugo nominations on two accounts: the race and gender of the authors nominated and the subject of their work, and the extent to which their work fits into the sci-fi and fantasy genres.

People have been posting their opinions in blog posts and on social media.

One group within the community, called Sad Puppies, have been attempting to lobby voters by presenting their ideal list of suggested nominees in February.

They say that their list contains: “entirely deserving works, writers, and editors — all of whom would not otherwise find themselves on the Hugo ballot without some extra oomph received from beyond the rarefied, insular halls of 21st century Worldcon ‘fandom’.”

Brad R Torgersen and Larry Correia are members of the Sad Puppies who put forward the list, or slate.

Full article:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/booknews/11517920/Hugo-Award-nominations-spark-criticism-over-diversity-in-sci-fi.html

I'm still digesting the whole thing, and trying to see both sides of the argument. I hope I won't end up blacklisting more authors because of this, as I did with Seanan McGuire a.k.a. Mira Grant last year. Correia and Torgersen aren't looking that good after this, and I hope they present a reasonable argument for their stance, as their present one is easily proven wrong. Beauty in Ruins just did, actually:

http://beauty-in-ruins.blogspot.pt/2015/04/the-pick-of-litter-box-and-hugo-awards.html
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Offline JMack

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Re: Hugo Awards 2015 Controversy & Sad Puppies
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2015, 01:21:13 PM »
The idea of a group of folks suggesting worthy books seems pretty useful to me.
The idea of framing them as a debate about the "dangers of inclusiveness" is problematic, because you are actually arguing not on merit but on source. Arguing on merit would simply be: write the list, defend it, hope for the best.
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Offline Yora

Re: Hugo Awards 2015 Controversy & Sad Puppies
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2015, 01:23:49 PM »
The only sensible thing to me seems to be just ignore it. The people who are in charge should come up with a new selection process that is less vulnerable to manipulation, and until then the awards given by the old process considered irrelevant.

Sure, you could counter-manipulate in the other direction, but what would that accomplish?
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Online DrNefario

Re: Hugo Awards 2015 Controversy & Sad Puppies
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2015, 01:52:51 PM »
That quoted passage seems like an incredibly gentle way of describing it.

The shortlists have been gamed by right-wing extremist trolls to such an extent that there are no alternative choices in many categories.

Sad, for an award with such a long history.

Offline Arry

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Offline Raptori

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Re: Hugo Awards 2015 Controversy & Sad Puppies
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2015, 04:17:07 PM »
Erm so... what? I'll read the articles later, but can anyone summarise what's going on? Based on those quotes, my guess is that some people are complaining that some books have only been nominated due to the author's race or gender? Could easily be the opposite though, since they're pretty ambiguous...  :o
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Offline ScarletBea

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Re: Hugo Awards 2015 Controversy & Sad Puppies
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2015, 04:25:44 PM »
At home in the Fantasy Faction forum!

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Offline Yora

Re: Hugo Awards 2015 Controversy & Sad Puppies
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2015, 04:30:27 PM »
It seems that the problem is really mostly that the voting system is designed in a way that can easily be broken and manipulated. That the first ones to really exploit those vulnerabilities are right-wing white men makes it seem more ideologically charged then it is, but the way to manipulate it is open to everyone. And to counter them we're most likely going to see another group exploit the vulnerability even more next year to "prevent manipulation".
Arrys second link goes into detail on that.
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Offline Saraband

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Re: Hugo Awards 2015 Controversy & Sad Puppies
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2015, 04:31:58 PM »
I liked Wes Chu's post about it:

http://wesleychu.com/how-this-years-hugo-drama-has-affected-my-worldcon/


And Justin Landon's which was posted on pornokitsch:

http://www.pornokitsch.com/2015/04/justin-landon-on-the-hugo-awards-an-entity-at-war-with-itself-.html

I just finished reading both articles, and they helped me make more sense of the situation. Thanks for sharing them, @Arry  ;)

some people are complaining that some books have only been nominated due to the author's race or gender? Could easily be the opposite though, since they're pretty ambiguous...  :o

It's basically that. A group claims some of the Hugo electorate is pushing a liberal agenda focused on promoting minority authors, while another group claims the Hugo's are still a 'white guys' thing. Check Arry's second link, it really breaks down the whole thing.
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Offline Nighteyes

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Re: Hugo Awards 2015 Controversy & Sad Puppies
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2015, 04:40:54 PM »
A good summary of awards controversy:
http://mark---lawrence.blogspot.co.uk/2015/04/the-gemmell-awards.html

Please don't quote Mark Lawrence! That guy has too much spare time on his hands. He probably worked out the email addresses of everyone who voted against him and personally emailed them to ask why they didn't vote for his books. (Probably accusing them of being in the political correctness brigade.)
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Offline Raptori

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Re: Hugo Awards 2015 Controversy & Sad Puppies
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2015, 04:46:51 PM »
Lol so in other words, it's a great big mess.  :D
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Online DrNefario

Re: Hugo Awards 2015 Controversy & Sad Puppies
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2015, 04:52:03 PM »
A group claims some of the Hugo electorate is pushing a liberal agenda focused on promoting minority authors
The group that claims this (wrongly, in my opinion) has banded together and completely dominated the shortlists for this year's Hugos, meaning there is now no way to disagree with them except to vote for No Award in several categories. Quite a few people are unhappy about this.

I've participated in the Hugos for the last few years, and won't be bothering this year.

Offline Saraband

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Re: Hugo Awards 2015 Controversy & Sad Puppies
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2015, 04:53:33 PM »
Lol so in other words, it's a great big mess.  :D

Quite an embuggerance, using Terry Pratchett's beloved expression  ;)
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Re: Hugo Awards 2015 Controversy & Sad Puppies
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2015, 04:58:02 PM »
A good summary of awards controversy:
http://mark---lawrence.blogspot.co.uk/2015/04/the-gemmell-awards.html
It seems to me like the Gemmells might have been gamed by the Warhammer crowd, once or twice. But on the other hand, it seems kind of right that Warhammer books should be recognised there, of all places.

Offline Doctor_Chill

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Re: Hugo Awards 2015 Controversy & Sad Puppies
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2015, 05:28:00 PM »
Ah, I was waiting for this to pop up. ;)

Nah, I agree largely with the links Arry posted. While it might be good in theory to push another side (not the usual crowd at least, and it creates diversity, don'tcha think?) but it was very counterproductive. Though I will say it did show the nasty side of some authors, which was interesting. Maybe they're scared they might lose to a BAEN book.

...Yeah.

Digging has shown some hypocrisy, like John Scalzi and Charlie Stross manipulating the broken machine, too. No outcry there (though not on the same stage as this slate), so one could argue a potential bias.

I'm more interested to see a BAEN book beat a TOR book in the Hugo's. ;D (Though, Tor has won a good bit of awards from the Hugo's. One might even call it a monopoly. 38 of the 156 noms in the past 30 years, won 50 percent of the short story noms, and 20 percent of the novellete noms. Might not seem big, but with merely 5/6 other big name publishers competing, let alone smaller press, it's a good bit.)

But the bigger question is: Who really cares about the Hugo's anymore? I thought they were populated by old white men before this? ;)
« Last Edit: April 08, 2015, 05:29:49 PM by Doctor Chill »
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