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Author Topic: Do we recommend enough female authors when asked for recommendations  (Read 15708 times)

Offline The Gem Cutter

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Re: Do we recommend enough female authors when asked for recommendations
« Reply #45 on: November 28, 2016, 12:53:22 AM »
Terrific research, and appreciate the time and energy invested. But I am confused and do not see a clear take-away, and I am not arguing here or contending anything. Statistics and analysis are well and good - but they fry my brain, so if there's a clear takeaway, it's invisible to me.

Trends mean nothing to me; my only interests are  the specifics: can someone tell me what terrific titles or authors are not being included? For me, fiction is a genderless product, and I am seeking quality. Can someone look at the list we recently totaled together over the course of weeks and point out all the woman-written books that should have been on that list but weren't for whatever reason?

Regarding the statement of the playing field not being level - which one(s)? Our recommendations, the genre they reflect, or what? Are publishers keeping women out?

My last question is mostly rhetorical, but perhaps not. Historically, female writers have long disguised their gender in order to be taken seriously. I think this is fading or gone, but I am not sure. Many men writing in Romance still hide/lie about their gender, or say they're part of a male/female team (perhaps true, maybe not). If there is significant bias in Fantasy, are there women hiding behind / coming out from behind false male personas or writing in m/f teams? I am not suggesting the logical fallacy that the absence of many women doing this means there isn't bias, but I am just curious why female writers would abandon a successful coping strategy if the bias persists.
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Re: Do we recommend enough female authors when asked for recommendations
« Reply #46 on: November 28, 2016, 05:50:43 AM »
I think we've sort of covered this stuff, so to get quote-happy...

Can someone look at the list we recently totaled together over the course of weeks and point out all the woman-written books that should have been on that list but weren't for whatever reason?

Well, perhaps...
First, a Reddit list of favorite books/series written by female authors. It doesn't say the sub-genres, but probably more complete or better recommended. Since a lot of people directly search for this, here it goes:
Fantasy Reddit Top Female Authored Series Books - Results
Or we could try the activity again with only female-authored books. That might be fun!

---
Regarding the statement of the playing field not being level - which one(s)? Our recommendations, the genre they reflect, or what? Are publishers keeping women out?

If people recommend few female authors, then fewer female authors have big hits, so publishers get a little warier on female authors because they don't sell fantastically, so fewer female authors are published, so fewer up-and-coming female authors see themselves represented in the genre, so fewer women submit their novels (or they go off to write romance), so fewer are published, so there are fewer to recommend, so...

It's not laying blame at anyone's feet, it's saying that it's a cycle with no one point at fault. Several (any?) of those points could be changed - publishers could deliberately publish more women for example - and as a result the entire cycle would change, and over time the gender balance would shift.

The points over which readers have the most control are the books they decide to read and the books they recommend. Therefore, any reader who percieves a bias in the subgenre and wants it to change should read and recommend more books by female authors, and encourage others to do the same. Hence threads like this one!  :)

---
My last question is mostly rhetorical, but perhaps not. Historically, female writers have long disguised their gender in order to be taken seriously. I think this is fading or gone, but I am not sure. [...] If there is significant bias in Fantasy, are there women hiding behind / coming out from behind false male personas or writing in m/f teams?

Robin Hobb picked Robin deliberately for a pen name because its androgynous (and her career was not plain sailing as Megan Lindholm). Joanne Rowling writes as JK Rowling - gender neutral

Also I believe NK Jemisin writes under initials partly to offer no immediate grip for gender and allow a reader to default to male if they are inclined.
I'm curious as to how many folk have thought Kameron Hurley male at some point.
I see Mazarkis Williams on the big spreadsheet of female authors, and am curious about the name choice.
And Magnus Flyte is two women.

That's just off the top of my head. Though I like to think, in this modern age, we're less hiding and more fighting.

I'll also add here that I found the speculation about KJ Parker's identity (and gender) to be absolutely fascinating because of all this stuff. Many people - myself included - assumed that because the author bio played pronoun games (i.e. didn't use any, therefore obscuring gender) that the author must actually be female, because otherwise why would you do that?

Offline Eclipse

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Re: Do we recommend enough female authors when asked for recommendations
« Reply #47 on: November 28, 2016, 06:15:30 AM »
I wish to point out if someone already recommend a name I don't normally repeat the name (both genders) maybe I should start also I don't always post in recommendation threads.
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Offline Peat

Re: Do we recommend enough female authors when asked for recommendations
« Reply #48 on: November 28, 2016, 07:40:10 AM »
By and large, I don't know which female authors aren't getting recommended when they should. That's sorta the point - female authors don't get pushed as far as their talent deserves meaning people are, by and large and with all due reference to the very well informed, not that aware of them.

Still, here's an interesting way of looking at that question -

http://www.goodreads.com/list/show/1117.Best_Fantasy_of_the_80s

The top 100 has 39 books by female authors by my count (Wurts is not credited on GR's page for Daughter of the Empire but should be). How many of those have we read? How many by the guys, how many by the girls? How many of each have we never even heard of?

Personally, outside Weis, Moon, Wurts and Lackey (whose popularity never seems mirrored on the forums I use), I'm shaky as hell on the women. I've heard of a few in passing and that's about it. Oh, and Pierce, missed her. McCaffrey, duh, was scrolling up from bottom. Only one by her on the list, surprised. There's 6 male authors with 7 books between them that I'm not very aware of.

Of course, we can play this game with other decades, I picked the 80s because I know it best. There's 32 or 33 books by female authors in the top 100 for 2010s (sorry, I lost count, and am way too lazy to get detailed at 2 in the morning). Meaningless stat or less female representation in the field? All of the 80s girls are, afaik, considered standard fantasy (save Cooper who I think always wrote for a slightly younger audience). Nowadays, a lot of big names would be considered YA. Go back to the 70s and the top 50 is actually an even gender split. McCaffrey, Cooper, Le Guin and McKillip are heavyweights on that list. I know we're not all reading 70s fantasy but hands up everyone who's read all 4 of those? I only ever heard of McKillip in the last year. L'Engle and McKinley have a few mentions - never heard of either until today. Then there's Tanith Lee and Katherine Kurtz in there with one each, both seriously good authors.

I need to sleep so I should wrap this up and I can't think of a graceful or good way to do so. All of this is food for thought rather than arguments in summation. Nevertheless... ah sod it.

p.s. Undoubtedly part of this is communities tend to parrot the same recommendations, both the genre overall and individual forums. Men can be victims of this as well as women. Example: Here, Jacka gets far less attention than Butcher or Aaronovitch or Hearne or a number of women. I wish I'd counted everything as that would be a cool study. Sadly it would also be examining the trees rather than the wood and also have been cause for my fiancee killing me.

p.p.s.

One thing I'm wary of is the idea that women would actually "give up" writing Sff and go on to write romances. How passionate are you, if you'd give up for the easy way out? I mean, it all depends on the people, but I'm here to write the dark stories I like, not just any pulpy thing that'll get published.
Maybe some people want to be authors, and have a list of fields they prefer, and will go do some PR if Grimdark doesn't welcome them, but I think I'd be rather offended if anyone hinted that I might ever do that myself if faced with adversity.
I mean, especially nowadays with self pub made so easy.

Missed this.

Some of fantasy's greatest authors wrote/write in multiple genres and probably ended up best known as fantasy authors due to it being the path of least resistance. If Robert Jordan's westerns had sold better than his Conan books, I doubt he'd have written the Wheel of Time. If High Hunt had taken off for David Eddings, we may have never seen the Belgariad. Martin wrote a bunch of stuff before Song of Ice and Fire.

It seems pretty likely that other genres have the same tales and that some of them are people who may have been fantasy authors in another life.
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Offline Lady Ty

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Re: Do we recommend enough female authors when asked for recommendations
« Reply #49 on: November 28, 2016, 08:13:53 AM »
Quote
Can someone look at the list we recently totaled together over the course of weeks and point out all the woman-written books that should have been on that list but weren't for whatever reason?
@ The Gem_Cutter

Is this the list you mean?
http://fantasy-faction.com/forum/fantasy-book-discussion/here-it-is!-the-5-best-modern-fantasy-poll/

 It is important to remember the list and poll were being tailored for you, bearing in mind what you indicated you enjoyed so far, plus a few specifics you were looking for. I don't honestly think it is altogether relevant to this particular discussion. At that point your choice and time to explore had been limited. Our aim was to widen your choices with similar modern fantasy.

For example I would have hesitated to recommend many good female writers such as Marie Brennan, Cat Valente, Helene Wecker, Ailette de Bodard, Susanna Clarke at this particular stage of your reading, as it is more likely you would have come to enjoy those vastly different styles later on.

It was drawn up from this list of nominations that @Raptori compiled  from an original thread by jmack female authors highlighted in red.  Jen Williams and Erin Morgenstern made it through to the final poll, and Jen was in top five.

Quote
Re: Nominations Please: 5 Novel Reading List for The Gem Cutter
« Reply #54 on: September 01, 2016, 06:33:40 AM »
Quote
+10

Lies of Locke Lamora - Scott Lynch

+8

The Final Empire - Brandon Sanderson

+5

Retribution Falls - Chris Wooding

+4

The Copper Promise - Jen Williams
Prince of Thorns - Mark Lawrence

+3

The Black Prism - Brent Weeks
Storm Front - Jim Butcher
The Way of Kings - Brandon Sanderson

+2

A Shadow In Summer - Daniel Abraham
Going Postal - Terry Pratchett
The Heroes - Joe Abercrombie
The Name of the Wind - Patrick Rothfuss
Promise of Blood - Brian McClellan
Under Heaven - Guy Gavriel Kay

+1

Blood Song - Anthony Ryan
The Builders - Daniel Polansky
Control Point - Myke Cole
Elantris - Brandon Sanderson
Fifty Shades of Grey - EL James
Gardens of the Moon - Steven Erikson
Malice - John Gwynne
The Night Circus - Erin Morgenstern
Perdido Street Station - China Mieville
Ready Player One - Ernest Cline
Theft of Swords - Michael J Sullivan

0

A Darker Shade of Magic - VE Schwab
American Craftsmen - Tom Doyle
The Ballad of Black Tom - Victor LaValle
Blackbirds - Chuck Wendig
The Emperor's Blades - Brian Staveley
Hounded - Kevin Hearne
The House of Shattered Wings - Aliette de Bodard
Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell - Susanna Clarke

Low Town - Daniel Polansky
The Red Knight - Miles Cameron
Twilight - Stephenie Meyer
The Warlord Chronicles - Bernard Cornwell

...I think I counted those right.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2016, 07:02:08 AM by Raptori »




« Last Edit: November 28, 2016, 08:23:10 AM by Lady_Ty »
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Offline stevenpoore

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Re: Do we recommend enough female authors when asked for recommendations
« Reply #50 on: November 28, 2016, 10:25:28 AM »
Here's an interesting post I've just seen on Twitter regarding the Guardian's Books of the Year. Laura Waddell has collated who is recommending whom as tally marks, and I think it illustrates what I've (probably poorly) been trying to put across while also showing that it's not just genre fiction that finds this a problem.
https://twitter.com/lauraewaddell/status/802479595287101440

(I can't get the image itself to post, i blame lack of caffeine)
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Offline Nora

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Re: Do we recommend enough female authors when asked for recommendations
« Reply #51 on: November 28, 2016, 11:39:19 AM »
One thing I'm wary of is the idea that women would actually "give up" writing Sff and go on to write romances. How passionate are you, if you'd give up for the easy way out? I mean, it all depends on the people, but I'm here to write the dark stories I like, not just any pulpy thing that'll get published.
Maybe some people want to be authors, and have a list of fields they prefer, and will go do some PR if Grimdark doesn't welcome them, but I think I'd be rather offended if anyone hinted that I might ever do that myself if faced with adversity.
I mean, especially nowadays with self pub made so easy.

Missed this.

Some of fantasy's greatest authors wrote/write in multiple genres and probably ended up best known as fantasy authors due to it being the path of least resistance. If Robert Jordan's westerns had sold better than his Conan books, I doubt he'd have written the Wheel of Time. If High Hunt had taken off for David Eddings, we may have never seen the Belgariad. Martin wrote a bunch of stuff before Song of Ice and Fire.

It seems pretty likely that other genres have the same tales and that some of them are people who may have been fantasy authors in another life.

GRRM was publishing Game of Thrones decades before it gained any wide popularity and a show. He wrote some sci fi and some vampire fantasy before GoT too, not a wide genre leap.

However your answer does not entirely cover what I meant.
You point people who managed to get published, but did not get recognition in that genre, hence going for another.

Fine, I also know a guy, the french comic artist Boulet was working on some projects and once made a drunken bet, from which resulted a comic book following a little dragon in a heroic/ironic fantasy setting. He wasn't a great fan of the concept, but it encountered huge success and he was asked for many more.
This being said, his personal blog was published in over 6 books and was even more famous and much closer to what he likes. But it's not like the guy had to drop all he liked or didn't manage to obtain some fame through his true passion.

Saying some women might have gone to write Romance because they failed in SFF is much more different, unless they also don't mind, and they also managed to publish books in their target genre, which did poorly. But then, it's a matter of choice. You can keep writing what you like and hope to get better (one tends to), or do another genre, fine, but... If you've been published once, why wouldn't you manage to get published again after you've gained more experience?
If you never get published in SFF or genral fiction and only manage to pierce in pulp, maybe you're not as good a writer as you thought, however hurtful this might sound. Not every aspiring writer will ever make it though normal publication, but as I said, with the option of self pub, there are no more such excuses. If people change genre and stick to where they get recognition, I'll assume they either enjoy writing it, or they enjoy recognition over writing a genre specifically.
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Offline The Gem Cutter

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Re: Do we recommend enough female authors when asked for recommendations
« Reply #52 on: November 28, 2016, 02:13:05 PM »
Thanks all, esp. Lady_Ty - I'll use that list to steer some more research.

I see a very wobbly lack of causality in that "recs-purchases-fewer big hits-warier publishers-fewer women authors-fewer recs for females" loop, so I thought there was something sturdier beneath things. I am not saying it's not true, I can't disprove it, but it's far from proven or even convincing.

I wonder: do women writers tend to prefer/avoid certain plots, characters, settings, situations, outcomes, etc., vs. their male counterparts?  After all, Fantasy is a bizarrely broad genre that can and does include everything from romance, political, military, etc. ingredients, operating in a loosely defined context. It wouldn't surprise me if there's as much or more causality in there somewhere that is statistically more weighty than gender in the direct sense. I would like to know: how do fantasy novels written by men differ from those written by women and vice-versa?

This is (perhaps way more) important, because if one is going to work the problem of gender bias, looking at recommendations to readers seems to approach the lever from the absolutely weakest end. Why are we not making recommendations to women writers on what to write, or at least, what to avoid?

Could the long-term solution be as simple as "A lot of male readers are seeking X/avoiding Y, and women writers are losing them, so watch out." Or "ladies, you are so busy capturing your male audience, you're leaving your female audience behind, and it's hurting your sales."
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Offline Nora

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Re: Do we recommend enough female authors when asked for recommendations
« Reply #53 on: November 28, 2016, 02:30:19 PM »
I don't think it'd be a realistic study to do, in so far that two men, like Sanderson and Robert Bennett Jackson, have wildly different styles themselves, writing in pretty high fantasy secondary universes, their approach of characters, magic, themes, female characters, and the art of describing, use of tenses, etc, is so different, that you could find many a female author to drop next to one or the other and find them more similar to one in themes, styles, etc.

For example, I found the work of Garth Nix to be close and reminiscent of the one of Diana Jones (The Castle In The Air), in so far that you could have given me a blank covered copy of Abhorsen and told me she wrote it, and I would have found it different but believable.
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Offline Peat

Re: Do we recommend enough female authors when asked for recommendations
« Reply #54 on: November 29, 2016, 04:28:09 AM »
This is why I shouldn't post at 2 in the morning! I never even realised TGC was talking about his list rather than in general...

Missing from the TGC's list:

There's three fairly ubiquitous female recommendations that aren't mentioned at all in that list Lady Ty posted - Robin Hobb, Naomi Novik and Rachel Aaron. All of them have books that would have fitted the nomination rules and barring TGC having read them before, I can't see any particular reason that they wouldn't fit (although I've not read the latter two so who knows?)

Looking down a bit more - Kate Elliott has a solid Epic Fantasy reputation, she wouldn't have been out of place there in terms of some of the male names I see at the bottom going from general recommendations. Problem is, I'm not great on modern authors of either sex myself!

*looks at his own list*

My other female noms not mentioned:

Nnedi Okorafor, Kirsty Logan, Kameron Hurley, Sarah Pinborough, Julia Knight, Emma Knight, NK Jemisin, Jo Walton, Stella Gemmell, Laura Resnick, Ilona Andrews, Barbara Webb

Obviously I've not read any of them so couldn't say although Julia Knight's book for the book club here looked pretty straight up fun fantasy. People have really sold me on the idea of trying Jemisin and Walton one of these days but, in fairness, if you've only got two nominations each, stuff's gonna get missed. More on that point later.



Nora - Martin's not the greatest example, but he could have still ended up following a path in which he's never recommended here because he was just Urban(ish) Fantasy and a screenwriter. And I believe that if Martin hadn't been hitting a dry patch in screenwriting, he'd have never tried SoIaF as he did it because he figured that if he kept getting rejected, he might as well do something that broke the rules. Or at least that's how I've heard it.

Now, I don't know how many people are so passionate for Fantasy that only that will do. I expect there's some. But there's definitely published authors who had a passion for multiple genres and/or recognition and getting paid.

As such, I don't think the possibility of potential Fantasy authors being lost to Romance - or PR, or YA, or UF, or Historical, or whatever - is completely far fetched. We know there's Fantasy authors that are here because of circumstance rather than a deep fervent passion for the genre and the genre alone. How many? No idea. None of us do. I've no idea how you'd even try researching that.


Speaking of research...

TGC, you raise some interesting questions and I wish that I had the time to research them and others properly. But I can't help but think that you're overthinking this. To go back to your list, its pretty broad. The majority is fairly standard long series of Wizards/Kings/Wars and so on but there's some recommendations that are barely fantasy, some standalones, some steampunk, some gaslight, some UF... GGK, Pratchett, Morgenstern, Mieville, LaValle, Clark, there's a few weird ones alright. You could probably get some commonalities but there's enough that break them.

That said... pretty much none of the women on there wrote the standard long series of Wizards/Kings/Wars. So maybe there is something to what you're saying.



Edit: A coda

Being sufficiently bored to look into it but not quite right for real work, I've started delving into other forums and am reminded that not all recommendations are good ones in the first case. I've seen someone ask for something like the Night Angel trilogy but not as slow paced as the Farseer trilogy and get recommended the Farseer trilogy. Also, the first name on the Romantic Fantasy user voter lists on BFB is The Name of the Wind. You can view that as men getting pushed more than women, or you can view it as people clamouring for the famous thing regardless of fit. It may be the former, its definitely the latter.

Even when not that rabidly dumb, there's no shortage of people recommending their favourite 5-6 authors over and over if they sorta match. All it takes is a few people with all male favourite lists and whoosh, you'll start to see things skew.

And so on.

If I were to urge people to change their recommending habits based on everything I'm seeing, it would be to actually read what the person asked for and think for a bit first...
« Last Edit: November 29, 2016, 07:42:00 AM by Peat »
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Offline stevenpoore

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Re: Do we recommend enough female authors when asked for recommendations
« Reply #55 on: November 29, 2016, 11:50:49 AM »

Even when not that rabidly dumb, there's no shortage of people recommending their favourite 5-6 authors over and over if they sorta match. All it takes is a few people with all male favourite lists and whoosh, you'll start to see things skew.

And so on.

If I were to urge people to change their recommending habits based on everything I'm seeing, it would be to actually read what the person asked for and think for a bit first...
YES! That does seem to be the exact problem. Or one of them. :)
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Offline Lanko

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Re: Do we recommend enough female authors when asked for recommendations
« Reply #56 on: November 29, 2016, 06:41:05 PM »
Missing from the TGC's list:

There's three fairly ubiquitous female recommendations that aren't mentioned at all in that list Lady Ty posted - Robin Hobb, Naomi Novik and Rachel Aaron. All of them have books that would have fitted the nomination rules and barring TGC having read them before, I can't see any particular reason that they wouldn't fit (although I've not read the latter two so who knows?)

Looking down a bit more - Kate Elliott has a solid Epic Fantasy reputation, she wouldn't have been out of place there in terms of some of the male names I see at the bottom going from general recommendations. Problem is, I'm not great on modern authors of either sex myself!

Nnedi Okorafor, Kirsty Logan, Kameron Hurley, Sarah Pinborough, Julia Knight, Emma Knight, NK Jemisin, Jo Walton, Stella Gemmell, Laura Resnick, Ilona Andrews, Barbara Webb

Obviously I've not read any of them so couldn't say although Julia Knight's book for the book club here looked pretty straight up fun fantasy.

I need to go back one or two pages of new stuff that appeared here, but this is quite a curious post.

First, context. The rules for that list were for books that weren't out before 2000, I believe. So Hobb's main series starts with Farseer in the 90s. So it was ruled out. I think Novik was nominated, but didn't receive enough votes to make the final round.

As for the other names, maybe people read it but thought they had better titles to nominate. Or maybe they didn't like those they've read. Or maybe they didn't even read them. I myself read only 5 of the titles there. Tastes varies greatly, and what is the best for you isn't the best for others.

But I'm more curious in how you are able to compare books you haven't read and say "they are similar to some in the list" or how without even reading page 1 of those books you are sure they would fit a member's specific conditions for a recommendation!
I for one would never consider a recommendation such as "I haven't read any of those books myself, but I'm sure they are extremely good because they are from female authors".

I think it's pretty clear now there's an ideological agenda being pushed, but I'm amazed people would go to the point of recommending authors they haven't even read it themselves based solely on the author's gender while implying or downright saying in various posts that publishers, editors, reviewers and even the readers themselves are gender biased...
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Offline The Gem Cutter

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Re: Do we recommend enough female authors when asked for recommendations
« Reply #57 on: November 29, 2016, 07:07:52 PM »
Regarding the list, I asked Jmack to weight first person stories heavier, b/c in this first novel I am writing in the first person for the first time (that's a lot of firsts - man am I courageous or what!  ;D), and also stories that feature magic and wizards prominently.
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Re: Do we recommend enough female authors when asked for recommendations
« Reply #58 on: November 29, 2016, 08:05:12 PM »
I think it's pretty clear now there's an ideological agenda being pushed, but I'm amazed people would go to the point of recommending authors they haven't even read it themselves based solely on the author's gender while implying or downright saying in various posts that publishers, editors, reviewers and even the readers themselves are gender biased...

Really? TGC asked what books/authors should have appeared on the list who didn't, and Peat is attempting to answer that question based on recommendations data he's collated from elsewhere. He's not pushing an agenda, he's not recommending those authors, he's noting that they fit similar profiles - in terms of genre reputation and recommendations elsewhere - to authors who were nominated.

Offline Peat

Re: Do we recommend enough female authors when asked for recommendations
« Reply #59 on: November 29, 2016, 08:29:22 PM »
I have no ideological agenda here. I am simply trying to establish the truth as I see it. I have a belief based on what I have seen. When challenged, I have sought evidence. When that evidence was challenged, I sought more evidence. All of this is based on the evidence and I am sharing everything I get with you.

If someone wishes to provide me with evidence or an argument that will change my mind as to what the truth is, I am all ears. All I want here is to know what's going on and help other people understand it.

Accusing me of an ideological agenda is not an argument though. Neither is cutting off the part of my post in which I acknowledge there's limited nominations and that might have skewed things. Argue with my evidence all you want but don't come out here trying to paint me as something. That's deeply uncool.


As for the meat of what you say -

Yes, Hobb's most famous works were published before 2000. The same is true of Kay and Pratchett while Erikson and Cornwell are nominated for books published before that date. It is possible people didn't nominate Hobb because TGC posted on the third page that he'd read most of Assassin's Apprentice. Then again, someone nominated Storm Front despite TGC also saying he'd read the Dresden Files too.

Novik does not appear in the list of nominations that Raptori compiled as reposted by Lady Ty. A quick search by name through the thread doesn't find Novik either. I think its safe to say no one nominated her and that, given her reputation, that is a mild surprise. Maybe its a function of the format; maybe it Saturn entering the house of the Purple Unicorn. I don't know why, I make no judgements, I merely mention her name.

However, I didn't mention these names in order to try and make a point (I merely reply to your points to point out facts you are not considering). I mentioned these names because TGC asked a question and I tried to answer as helpfully and honestly as I can. I am not making any argument based upon this list; my argument rests on the evidence I found.

I am not making recommendations because they are female. I am passing on recommendations I have received from people I trust and respect and they are all female because that's what TGC asked for. If he asked for the male recommendations I received that he didn't when I asked for a catch up list, I'd do that too despite not having read the majority of them either. I'll throw one out for free here; I'm surprised not to see Django Wexler in the nominations based on everything I've heard of him. There is no agenda here, simply the desire to help another poster and a willingness to trust the recommendations of others and general reputations.

I hope that clears that up.

(oh, and in the time I spent typing this, cupiscent ninja'ed me with a far more concise explanation. Bah!)

p.s. If anyone wants to give TGC a better list of female authors that could have appeared in the poll but didn't, by all means do so.

p.p.s. If I was pushing an argument there, I probably wouldn't go around posting things that could be used as a counter-argument such as the fact that I hadn't read most of the names involved.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2016, 08:34:07 PM by Peat »
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