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Author Topic: Do we recommend enough female authors when asked for recommendations  (Read 16014 times)

Offline Eclipse

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Re: Do we recommend enough female authors when asked for recommendations
« Reply #105 on: December 02, 2016, 06:42:05 AM »
I've checked only seems to be Aaron and Bach thought she had another one for her UF series

Le Guin was just a total guess

My personal top 5 female authors would be Weis,Wurts,Aaron,Alex Hughes,Barbara Webb, P.N Elrod.( not all of them would get on my favourite top five of both genders through)

I've not read Jen Williams the S&S angle putting me off , I'm not a fan of S&S will eventually read it through.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2016, 06:51:33 AM by Eclipse »
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Offline Peat

Re: Do we recommend enough female authors when asked for recommendations
« Reply #106 on: December 02, 2016, 07:01:29 AM »
I've checked only seems to be Aaron and Bach thought she had another one for her UF series

Le Guin was just a total guess

My personal top 5 female authors would be Weis,Wurts,Aaron,Alex Hughes,Barbara Webb, P.N Elrod.( not all of them would get on my favourite top five of both genders through)

I've not read Jen Williams the S&S angle putting me off , I'm not a fan of S&S will eventually read it through.

Well it is hard to fit 6 into 5, yes...  :P

I personally wouldn't emphasise the S&S angle. You can see the homages & the influence, but it is very much in epic fantasy form.

Offline Elfy

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Re: Do we recommend enough female authors when asked for recommendations
« Reply #107 on: December 02, 2016, 07:39:55 AM »
I've checked only seems to be Aaron and Bach thought she had another one for her UF series

Le Guin was just a total guess

My personal top 5 female authors would be Weis,Wurts,Aaron,Alex Hughes,Barbara Webb, P.N Elrod.( not all of them would get on my favourite top five of both genders through)

I've not read Jen Williams the S&S angle putting me off , I'm not a fan of S&S will eventually read it through.
When recommending Margaret Weis are you also taking into account the books she wrote with Tracy Hickman?
I will expand your TBR pile.

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Offline Eclipse

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Re: Do we recommend enough female authors when asked for recommendations
« Reply #108 on: December 02, 2016, 07:56:43 AM »
I've read Margaret Weis solo works and the one with her various co authors. I would recommend both Hickman &  Weis.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2016, 12:18:52 PM by Eclipse »
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Offline Nora

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Re: Do we recommend enough female authors when asked for recommendations
« Reply #109 on: December 02, 2016, 10:30:32 AM »
So take another moment to think if there's any awesome male authors you've left off. Hell, I would be delighted if people would also take a third moment to consider specifically whether they've left off any awesome writers of colour.

Let's just not leave awesome people off. What's the big deal?


...though since we're here and I have this thread open in another tab: No one's mentioned Diana Wynne Jones in the fantasy-setting-other-than-medieval-europe thread. ;)

As I've told you, I often don't even know what my authors look like, and know as little as possible on their back story. So depending on the name I could well read an author of colour without ever realizing it AND my brain does not classify books by author.
Is that even understandable? I don't read authors, I read some of their work. If I like the book so-so, then I only ever read the one. Worse, authors who leave a great effect on me also classify in the "read with care" section, like "the road" or "the collector". Such authors wrote other very acclaimed books I sometimes even own, but I haven't gotten around to reading them.
What kind of authorial recommendation is that? I recommend books. Because often all I've read from an author is one book.
When you see what a heap of shite Hannibal is compared to Red Dragon, I refuse to arbitrarily recommend authors over work, if I know not all their work holds up.

Maybe the reason Jones wasn't recommended there is because I haven't posted on that thread, and I was the only one to think of it?


I was quite vain so far in thinking that I do reflect about my recommendations, I do use my brain. But it sounds like using it in a different way isn't a good thing.


Eclipse and Peat's point in the "forum's top 5" is funny because I dislike Lynch, dislike Hobbs, and the only author beside her I've read in the list is Sanderson.
Feels like generalizations are annoying regardless of the side you stand from them.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2016, 01:03:46 AM by Nora »
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Offline Eclipse

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Re: Do we recommend enough female authors when asked for recommendations
« Reply #110 on: December 02, 2016, 10:47:22 AM »
You not alone with dislike of Hobb.,Sanderson okay nothing special to me.you on your own with Lynch through;-) like I'm with sir Terry Pratchet

Everyone has a different top  of books, everyone has different  tastes and that's awesome.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2016, 11:19:38 AM by Eclipse »
According to some,* heroic deaths are admirable things

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Offline ultamentkiller

Re: Do we recommend enough female authors when asked for recommendations
« Reply #111 on: December 03, 2016, 02:31:37 AM »
Quote
For the final time, because seriously, I have to stop beating my head against this discussion:

I don't think quotas are appropriate or helpful.

I do think it would be good if everyone - myself included - gave a moment's extra thought when making recommendations as to whether there were awesome female authors who should be included.

That's it. That's all.

Why?

Why not? It's a moment of your time. You really can't spare it to make sure you're not absentmindedly leaving off someone awesome?

I think this crystalises the problem. You see someone (most likely a woman) being left off.

We see a book.

If someone asked me for great high fantasy books that aren't a medieval or full of tropey creatures, and I forgot to mention Jones for Castle in the Air, you would think "tssk, a female author that gets forgotten", while I'd think "shit, how could I have forgotten Castle in the Air?"

I forget to recommend awesome books all the time. I'm human, my memory is imperfect. Chances are I also sometimes neglect male authors. But since there are more of them, maybe we'll never notice that on paper.
Oh my gosh! Definitely this! I forgot that I read Castle In The Air this year, and lord knows I couldn't remember who wrote it.

I feel like I always recommend an author of color. After all, don't 99 percent of humans have skin that is a certain color? Even albinos? I don't know much about albinos, so that could be really off.

My point is this. I don't care. Write a good book. From coming back after a week, it looks like every argument that women aren't being published fairly, and women aren't being promoted fairly, has been shot down. So let's all just give it a rest. Write a good book, and recommend good books. Don't recommend people, because people are complicated, annoying, and, for the most part, aren't we reading to get away from people? I know I am. I will not take an extra minute to think about my favorite books, because I know what my favorite books are. If people want to dig through my Goodreads account, they can have at it. But I will recommend what stands out to me the most. Will I recommend an author? Maybe. But maybe I should stop that, since it's so frustrating to people apparently. I'll only say who the author is if they don't come up on the first Google search of the title. That way, this whole gender thing and color thing and minority thing and whatever else you guys can come up with will die, and we'll only care about what most of us are here to discuss. Books.

TLDR: People suck, but books don't, so recommend books. Not people. Will this calm everyone down? Probably not.

Offline cupiscent

Re: Do we recommend enough female authors when asked for recommendations
« Reply #112 on: December 03, 2016, 05:40:39 AM »
As I've told you, I often don't even know what my authors look like, and know as little as possible on their back story. So depending on the name I could well read an author of colour without ever realizing it AND my brain does not classify books by author.

So it'll be a short moment, then. ;)

I will not take an extra minute to think about my favorite books, because I know what my favorite books are.

I am super impressed by your memory, because I can barely remember a fraction of the fantastic books I've read in the past year, let alone my entire life, without pausing to think and, often, going to stand in front of my bookshelves, both literal and virtual.

Offline Elfy

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Re: Do we recommend enough female authors when asked for recommendations
« Reply #113 on: December 03, 2016, 06:24:14 AM »
I've read her solo books and the one with her various co authors. I would recommend both Weis & Hickman.
Not being rude or anything, Eclipse, but you do realise that Tracy Hickman is a male?
I will expand your TBR pile.

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Offline Eclipse

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Re: Do we recommend enough female authors when asked for recommendations
« Reply #114 on: December 03, 2016, 08:00:37 AM »
Have you not read  my posts on how I started reading, I know he's male. ( not when I first started reading but I've now known for a long time now) I have thanked them both for getting me to read.

I'm happy to recommend both genders , I was asked to guess what the top 5 female writers were given in recommendation here in the f -f forum then just for fun I gave my own personal  top 5 female authors  for fun I enjoy reading, as Tracy Hickman is male I left him off maybe I should have just said "with Tracy Hickman"

I would have left Weis out of a male author list if I had put Hickman on it, next time I will put  the names of the various co authors  an author has worked with as well.

« Last Edit: December 03, 2016, 01:12:08 PM by Eclipse »
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Offline ScarletBea

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Re: Do we recommend enough female authors when asked for recommendations
« Reply #115 on: December 03, 2016, 11:07:44 AM »
Eclipse, I think what Elfy was trying to say is that you used "her" a couple of times in your sentence when referring to Tracy - not that you should/shouldn't recommend him.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2016, 01:52:03 PM by ScarletBea »
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Offline Eclipse

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Re: Do we recommend enough female authors when asked for recommendations
« Reply #116 on: December 03, 2016, 12:15:25 PM »
When saying her I meant Margaret in that post,sorry.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2016, 12:52:25 PM by Eclipse »
According to some,* heroic deaths are admirable things

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Offline ScarletBea

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Re: Do we recommend enough female authors when asked for recommendations
« Reply #117 on: December 03, 2016, 12:21:04 PM »
we all got confused, then ;D
sorry!
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Offline Eclipse

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Re: Do we recommend enough female authors when asked for recommendations
« Reply #118 on: December 03, 2016, 12:32:17 PM »
No problem, I got confused as well with what Elfy meant too. I will use the names of the authors from now on when replying and I'm sorry if I confuse anyone with my wording/grammar in posts.
According to some,* heroic deaths are admirable things

* Generally those who don't have to do it.Politicians and writers spring to mind

Jonathan Stroud:Ptolmy's Gate

Offline ultamentkiller

Re: Do we recommend enough female authors when asked for recommendations
« Reply #119 on: December 03, 2016, 03:51:56 PM »

I will not take an extra minute to think about my favorite books, because I know what my favorite books are.

I am super impressed by your memory, because I can barely remember a fraction of the fantastic books I've read in the past year, let alone my entire life, without pausing to think and, often, going to stand in front of my bookshelves, both literal and virtual.
There's a difference between fantastic books, and my favorite books. Off of the top of my head, here are my favorite books.

the Light Bringer Series by Brent Weeks
The Stormlight Archive by Brandon Sanderson
Promise of Blood by Brian T. McKlellan.
Grave Peril and Small Favor by Jim Butcher

Now, let me check that against my Goodreads account.

Alright, I missed Tricked by Kevin Hearne.

That's one. One out of all of the books I've read in the past two years. See, there's a difference between us. For one, I probably don't read as many books as you do. Two, people have different levels of memory. I know, it's a shock we're not all the same, but bare with me for a second. I'm not saying my memory is better than yours. What I am saying is that I can remember my favorite books better than you can apparently. And there's nothing wrong with that. Now, here's the important part. Were any of the ones I left off female?

*checks list*

Nope. They weren't. However, maybe I should take an even longer time to make sure I include at least one female author, even though the ones I've read did not make my list of favorite books. Yes, they have written really good books, but not my favorite. So, when telling people about my favorites, should I throw an author in the minority on there even though they didn't make the cut? Maybe in your list you would, but this is my list, and I won't give people higher expectations than the book deserves.

I get your sarcasm. I get trying to call me on that. I really do. But it was pointless, unless you count one book a victory. I may not know as much about politics as I should. I may not know as much about music. What I know are my favorite books. I often know why they were written, how the idea came to be, the years of publication, etc. That's why I can say with 99 percent certainty that I'm not leaving anyone off with my recommendations. Hell, one reason I left off Iron Druid is because that's one book in the entire series, and it's in the middle. You have to get through book one first, and that's the weakest of the series.

Which brings me back to my original point, which solves the entire problem. Let's just stop saying who the book is by, to make everyone happy, since that's the only thing that will satisfy people who feel authors are being left out. If it doesn't come up on the first Google search of the title, then maybe include the author. otherwise, just say the book title, so people can't bother you and call you sexist or discriminatory or whatever other words they wish to throw out there. and no, before I get jumped on, I'm not saying anyone here is calling me that, or anyone else. It might be implied in some cases, but no one has directly said it, which I assume must make it okay. I won't defend how it's been implied, because Lanko did a fantastic job of doing that already, so there's no point in revisiting that circle.

Read the books you want, and to hell with who they're by. They're not people, they're just hands creating words that tell a story.

Oh wait, then we might get hand discrimination. "you only recommend big hands! How dare you!"

If anyone cares, I will put my list in spoilers of books I recommend, which are all really good in my opinion, and a few on that list are my favorites, or have my favorites in them.

Spoiler for Hiden:
the Light Bringer Series
The Stormlight Archive (read Mistborn first if you haven't, and maybe Warbreaker too)
The Powder Mage Trilogy
Riyria Revelations
Tales of the Ketty Jay
The Iron Druid Chronicles
The Dresden Files
The Broken Empire Trilogy
The First Law
The Gentlemen Bastard Sequence
The Demon Wars Saga
Demon Cycle
Erick Carter
All from the top of my head, and checking Goodreads still makes that accurate.