February 28, 2020, 03:15:31 PM

Author Topic: Characters coming back from the grave part two and maybe some spoilers too  (Read 671 times)

Offline Eclipse

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The original topic unfortunately fall into a religious debate, so let’s leave real life religion out this time. Beside which none of the original posters of the original topic are no longer here.


Have you ever been reading a book and the author makes a ballsy move and kills off a major character only to bring them back in some form or another?  Does this bother you?  Not bother you?  Don't care one way or the other?

I haven't had a huge problem with this until recently.  I've been noticing more and more characters being killed off only to return. I know it's not a new gimmick but for some reason it's really starting to annoy me. 

Steven Erikson, one of my all-time faves did it time and again throughout the Malazan series. I won't spoil any but there were major deaths, some were pretty emotional, then the character shows up again later.  To me this spoils an awesome death scene.  I mean if there is no finality to death then there would be no emotion when someone dies.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2019, 09:19:51 PM by Eclipse »
According to some,* heroic deaths are admirable things

* Generally those who don't have to do it.Politicians and writers spring to mind

Jonathan Stroud:Ptolmy's Gate

Online isos81

Re: Characters coming back from the grave part two
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2019, 09:12:13 PM »
Aren't these spoilers? Should I use tags for the books? (I think I should)

Spoiler for Hiden:
The Night Angel is something like immortal. Whenever he is killed, he comes back to life. And I disliked the idea. It's like activating God Mode in a game which ruins all the fun

BTW, who comes back to life in Malazan?
Kallor shrugged. 'I've walked this land when the T'lan Imass were but children. I've commanded armies a hundred thousand strong. I've spread the fire of my wrath across entire continents, and sat alone upon tall thrones. Do you grasp the meaning of this?'

'Yes' said Caladan Brood. 'You never learn'

Offline Eclipse

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Re: Characters coming back from the grave part two and maybe spoilers
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2019, 09:14:57 PM »
Read and find out as Sanderson would say.
According to some,* heroic deaths are admirable things

* Generally those who don't have to do it.Politicians and writers spring to mind

Jonathan Stroud:Ptolmy's Gate

Offline Bender

Re: Characters coming back from the grave part two
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2019, 09:23:13 PM »
BTW, who comes back to life in Malazan?

Pretty much everyone. But then I don't think it's character resurrection as per OP. It's just the way magic is designed in that world.

Spoiler for Hiden:
off the top of my head...Whiskeyjack, Anomander Rake, Hedge, Toc the Younger all come back in some form or other.

"I shall hunt your firstborn children and laugh with glee as I tell them of your death in terrible detail, with many unpleasant adjectives!" - M-Bot

"Who needs science when you have a dragon?" - Neil DeGrasse Tyson in Sharknado 6

Offline Matthew

Re: Characters coming back from the grave part two and maybe some spoilers too
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2019, 09:38:17 PM »
Really annoying trope.

If you're going to kill off a character for narrative ends, leave them in the ground.

Whatever you do, don't bring the cheese and bring them back... It negates whatever impact their death had.

Offline hexa

Re: Characters coming back from the grave part two and maybe some spoilers too
« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2019, 09:49:21 PM »
Another Malazan resurrection

Spoiler for Hiden:
Tattersail

Offline Bender

Re: Characters coming back from the grave part two and maybe some spoilers too
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2019, 10:21:36 PM »
Another Malazan resurrection

Spoiler for Hiden:
Tattersail

Spoiler for Hiden:
she's more a rebirth than a resurrection. Both characters are different.

But in spirit of thread, it does fall into the trope.
"I shall hunt your firstborn children and laugh with glee as I tell them of your death in terrible detail, with many unpleasant adjectives!" - M-Bot

"Who needs science when you have a dragon?" - Neil DeGrasse Tyson in Sharknado 6

Offline Elfy

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Re: Characters coming back from the grave part two and maybe some spoilers too
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2019, 10:25:25 PM »
I’m not in favour of it. If you can’t continue the series/book without that character then don’t kill them in the first place.

Offline Yora

Re: Characters coming back from the grave part two and maybe some spoilers too
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2019, 10:01:54 AM »
Really annoying trope.

If you're going to kill off a character for narrative ends, leave them in the ground.

Whatever you do, don't bring the cheese and bring them back... It negates whatever impact their death had.
Not only that, it also cheapens all deaths in the future.
We are not standing on the shoulders of giants, but on a big tower of other dwarves.

Beneath the Leaves of Kaendor

Offline Neveesandeh

Re: Characters coming back from the grave part two and maybe some spoilers too
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2019, 10:06:09 AM »
Killing off a character then bringing them back is one of my all time least favourite tropes in any form of media. It kills the stakes like nothing else. And the stakes can't be brought back.

Offline Peat

Re: Characters coming back from the grave part two and maybe some spoilers too
« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2019, 10:54:23 AM »
No particular objections, but then I've never read a series with a lot of major deaths where they then came back without it being really obvious for a long time this was likely.

To me, the possibility of returning from the dead is part of many mythologies and has deep roots in Fantasy. I'd be sad if it never happened anymore.
This is the blog of Peat - http://peatlong.blogspot.co.uk/

Offline Yora

Re: Characters coming back from the grave part two and maybe some spoilers too
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2019, 11:50:50 AM »
Is this even a thing in fantasy? I know in superheroes nobody ever stays dead, except for spiderman's uncle. But the only one who comes to my mind in fantasy is Gandalf, and the point of that was to show that he's not actually mortal.
We are not standing on the shoulders of giants, but on a big tower of other dwarves.

Beneath the Leaves of Kaendor

Offline Peat

Re: Characters coming back from the grave part two and maybe some spoilers too
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2019, 12:53:47 PM »
Is this even a thing in fantasy? I know in superheroes nobody ever stays dead, except for spiderman's uncle. But the only one who comes to my mind in fantasy is Gandalf, and the point of that was to show that he's not actually mortal.

In the thirty odd minutes between me reading this on the train and me getting home and typing a response I could think of examples of characters dying and coming back to live in some form from Tolkien (not including Gandalf), Jordan, Martin, Eddings, Feist, Kerr, Lackey, GG Kay, Gemmell, Pratchett, Butcher, Cornwell and Rowling. It might have fallen a little out of fashion since the 80s/90s, but you still see it from some big names and it is definitely a thing.
This is the blog of Peat - http://peatlong.blogspot.co.uk/

Offline Yora

Re: Characters coming back from the grave part two and maybe some spoilers too
« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2019, 02:16:44 PM »
Okay, I only read a single Gemmell and none of the others. It might just have slipped past me.
We are not standing on the shoulders of giants, but on a big tower of other dwarves.

Beneath the Leaves of Kaendor

Offline cupiscent

Re: Characters coming back from the grave part two and maybe some spoilers too
« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2019, 11:02:40 PM »
Deaths should be earned / have plot weight. Resurrections even more so. I find it far more interesting to see characters / the author having to cope with the absence of a figure.