September 26, 2020, 04:15:06 PM

Author Topic: Abusive Behaviour in the Fantasy Community  (Read 3456 times)

Offline Rostum

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Re: Abusive Behaviour in the Fantasy Community
« Reply #45 on: August 02, 2020, 03:06:34 PM »
For context from your post.

Quote
I think we end up with mob justice because it's often the only form of justice coming their way. And so many women are just so effing tired of this constant stream of bull we get from everywhere.

I think the HR wonk did not follow company policy then. For the last 20 years pretty much every firm has a step by step grievance procedure to follow in such cases. You get a copy by law. Ask @Lady Ty  about working in the 70's if you think harassment at work is bad now.

So Twitter, a private company that a small section of humanity uses should be the moral arbiter for the twenty-first century? I really hope that we are not that stupid.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2020, 03:10:44 PM by Rostum »

Offline Nora

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Re: Abusive Behaviour in the Fantasy Community
« Reply #46 on: August 02, 2020, 06:05:16 PM »
So Twitter, a private company that a small section of humanity uses should be the moral arbiter for the twenty-first century? I really hope that we are not that stupid.

That is a wild misquote and nowhere near what I'm claiming or trying to say.

What are you trying to say? That things are fine because we're not like in the 70s any more? How is that helpful? What does it bring to the table in the way we should deal with authors sexually harassing fans or others?
Twitter will always have mob mentality because it's designed that way, and people care about such topics because maybe they don't want to read the works of someone who assaults or abuses other people. Sometimes twitter outrage brings out good things, it's a sharp, doubled edge sword that no clear entity is swinging.
It should not be justice though, I never, ever said that. Fuck I'm not even on twitter, never was.
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Offline Rostum

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Re: Abusive Behaviour in the Fantasy Community
« Reply #47 on: August 03, 2020, 05:21:31 AM »
Not a quote, which is why I didn't use the insert quote symbol but never mind.

Offline Teto10

Re: Abusive Behaviour in the Fantasy Community
« Reply #48 on: August 03, 2020, 06:47:39 PM »
An author whose name I can't recall but who was collecting allegations
I love have a good helth
Visit  https://nearbyall.com

Offline cupiscent

Re: Abusive Behaviour in the Fantasy Community
« Reply #49 on: August 04, 2020, 04:19:37 AM »
An author whose name I can't recall but who was collecting allegations

So here's an interesting thing. The author - or at least one of them, I believe many authors had their DMs open to people who wanted to speak out but had no platform of their own - was Ann Aguirre. She has subsequently and recently deleted her twitter. Are these things related? I honestly don't know.

Offline Rostum

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Re: Abusive Behaviour in the Fantasy Community
« Reply #50 on: September 03, 2020, 08:20:16 PM »
Hmm Nobody cared to Mentioned Clementine Ford. So two things got her in trouble in the last 3 months.

She doxed and published the photo of a 14 year old to her 133k followers on SM after he sent her a nasty DM.

She stated Coronavirus wasn't killing men quick enough then made a sorry not sorry apology when her public funding was put in jepody.

It must be wonderful to have public funding to write your book and then feel that half those paying for your lifestyle are only deserving of death.


Offline Nora

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Re: Abusive Behaviour in the Fantasy Community
« Reply #51 on: September 04, 2020, 12:49:53 AM »
See? I wonder if anyone will come out saying that cutting that funding is too harsh? Certainly some people commented on authors losing their publishing deals was probably too harsh, but I really don't get it. She ought to lose public funding at the absolute least, if that is true.
"She will need coffee soon, or molecular degeneration will set in. Her French phrasing will take over even more strongly, and soon she will dissolve into a puddle of alienation and Kierkegaardian despair."  ~ Jmack

Wishy washy lyricism and maudlin unrequited love are my specialty - so said Lady_Ty

Offline cupiscent

Re: Abusive Behaviour in the Fantasy Community
« Reply #52 on: September 04, 2020, 01:00:09 AM »
Not sure why you put this here, as Clem Ford has nothing to do with the fantasy community.

But since you have: I think her coronavirus comment was tremendously ill-considered (or more probably: not considered at all) and it's done poor justice to what is a very serious issue. But I also think her extensive apology has delivered the nuance and consideration that her initial comment lacked. (And her "public funding" is a local-government survive-the-pandemic grant because the federal government has decided the arts don't matter and can be allowed to die off - they're offering no support to the sector. The grant is also under revision because of her comments.)

I have trouble finding sympathy for a 14 year old boy who tells a woman to shut up and kill herself.

Offline Rostum

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Re: Abusive Behaviour in the Fantasy Community
« Reply #53 on: September 04, 2020, 02:10:47 AM »
While not defending whatever was said, a 40 year old doxing a 14 year old to a sympathetic audience is not going to ever gain my support. I can not see any situation where that would be justified.

I think it was a flippant, if poorly judged remark on a platform that loathes nuance and context. Thanks for letting us know it was a COVID-19 payment it was reported as an arts grant in the report I saw. This may have been disingenuous or may have been a lack of comprehension of how a social security net is meant to work.

Offline Nora

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Re: Abusive Behaviour in the Fantasy Community
« Reply #54 on: September 04, 2020, 02:18:03 AM »
I have trouble finding sympathy for a 14 year old boy who tells a woman to shut up and kill herself.

None to have, but unleashing your fanbase on a 14 year old boy is also not how you teach him about being polite online. At this stage I have no sympathy for either of them. She's a grown up woman, and uses social media in one of the most toxic and dangerous way possible to get back at someone using the selfsame media to be a toxic twat? It's pigs wrestling in the mud, but in a perfect world, the teen should be contacted by the site, admonished, and banned, and the adult should refrain from doxxing.

Quote
"public funding" is a local-government survive-the-pandemic grant

Pretty ironic then, if she truly made such comments about corona. She calls her comment "a flippant joke" but wishing more men would die and faster is a little beyond that, if these were her words. I just don't get how such a "joke" would be smart to make on a website, where people can only read your words. It's not very wise, but then again, doxxing a 14 year old isn't wise either. If she truly meant it as a crude "joke", then way to go at risking her public funding.

"Anyway, this acknowledgement isn’t for the men who are looking for any reason to ignore patriarchal impact but for the people genuinely hurt by my words. I’m sincerely sorry, and I wish I had framed my argument in better terms and in a way that didn’t compound harm." – she certainly expresses herself well, but again, I feel like writers ought to be a lot more careful with their damn words when online. I miss the pre twitter era.
"She will need coffee soon, or molecular degeneration will set in. Her French phrasing will take over even more strongly, and soon she will dissolve into a puddle of alienation and Kierkegaardian despair."  ~ Jmack

Wishy washy lyricism and maudlin unrequited love are my specialty - so said Lady_Ty

Offline cupiscent

Re: Abusive Behaviour in the Fantasy Community
« Reply #55 on: September 04, 2020, 03:57:57 AM »
While not defending whatever was said, a 40 year old doxing a 14 year old to a sympathetic audience is not going to ever gain my support. I can not see any situation where that would be justified.

He told her to put a gun in her mouth.

And maybe I missed further actions on her part, but what she did was post a screenshot of his messages that included his username - she didn't hunt down his address or anything, she just posted messages he was happy to put his name against when he sent them to her. (I'm honestly not sure if she knew his age when she posted the screenshot. There's no reason for her to have found it out.)

In general, I think Clem Ford is too angry to use social media without a timelapse confirmation or other failsafe. But the main damage she does is only to herself, diminishing the power of her own message.

Offline Nora

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Re: Abusive Behaviour in the Fantasy Community
« Reply #56 on: September 04, 2020, 04:42:34 AM »
Quote
He told her to put a gun in her mouth.

Yes, and any amount of time spent on reddit or similar platforms will make this a fairly unsurprising comment. People can be proper horrible in DMs, or outside of them. I'm not particularly surprised. It is bad, but again not an excuse to dox. Nothing is.

Quote
what she did was post a screenshot of his messages that included his username - she didn't hunt down his address or anything

That changes the situation quite a lot, @Rostum because then it's indeed not really doxxing. Cupiscent has a fair point, if she didn't track him on social medias to get his name or his image, and he didn't use a throwaway account for his hate speech well... She probably didn't realise what she was doing. Certainly people in her fanbase are perfectly able to track his info down based on a single username, but again, she hasn't proved to be tremendously smart during this episode, so I suppose she could have not foreseen this.

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But the main damage she does is only to herself, diminishing the power of her own message.

Not true. Man-hating jokes that garner a lot of attentions and then are followed by an apology that is more of an angry feminist tirade does hurt others : feminists at large.
It's hardly a good look for the cause. Though she comes off as such a man hater overall through her twitter that I doubt her type of feminism is the "let's unite to overthrow toxic masculinity and patriarchy, we'll all benefit" type.
I've looked through her twitter by now to see what she's like and yeah... She seems very abrasive *cough* She's Australian *cough* I'm so not surprised any more *cough*
"She will need coffee soon, or molecular degeneration will set in. Her French phrasing will take over even more strongly, and soon she will dissolve into a puddle of alienation and Kierkegaardian despair."  ~ Jmack

Wishy washy lyricism and maudlin unrequited love are my specialty - so said Lady_Ty

Offline Rostum

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Re: Abusive Behaviour in the Fantasy Community
« Reply #57 on: September 04, 2020, 02:39:59 PM »
She posted the message his photo and partial address and only removed them after repeated pleadings from his mother. Teenage boys live in the now, consequences are rarely a thought. That said this crosses a line and should be punished. Contact the police or contact his parents but do not doxx a child. Having read some of her posts she comes across as a horrible person so wrapped up in her own ideology that she is blinded to anything else. 

Offline Nora

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Re: Abusive Behaviour in the Fantasy Community
« Reply #58 on: September 05, 2020, 01:09:14 AM »
She posted the message his photo and partial address and only removed them after repeated pleadings from his mother. Teenage boys live in the now, consequences are rarely a thought. That said this crosses a line and should be punished. Contact the police or contact his parents but do not doxx a child. Having read some of her posts she comes across as a horrible person so wrapped up in her own ideology that she is blinded to anything else.

Right ok, if she did do that then that would indeed be proper doxxing. At least the glimmer of hope if that clearly the mom got to know... so she probably knows what her son was saying to this woman online, and he's probably gotten a spooky life lesson out this. Hopefully he'll not get entrenched and genuinely grow out of this experience...
"She will need coffee soon, or molecular degeneration will set in. Her French phrasing will take over even more strongly, and soon she will dissolve into a puddle of alienation and Kierkegaardian despair."  ~ Jmack

Wishy washy lyricism and maudlin unrequited love are my specialty - so said Lady_Ty

Offline Elfy

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Re: Abusive Behaviour in the Fantasy Community
« Reply #59 on: September 05, 2020, 02:58:51 AM »
I haven't read anything by Clem Ford and I don't intend to, but she has a fairly unsavory reputation down here. From what I know about her this is pretty much situation normal for her. As was stated earlier, she's not an SFF writer or part of the Fantasy Community, so probably belongs in another thread.
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